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  #51  
Old 06-01-2017, 04:24 PM
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richardw richardw is offline
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
I carry an SR22 most of the year loaded with Stingers. plus 1 extra mag.

I'm 74 and no physical problems shooting yet.
I want to share a couple things I learned while researching my decision to switch to 22 for edc. I was sure that the CCI Stinger or Velocitor would be the best choice. I had previously boiled down my choice of a 22 to either a SR22 or the 22 Compact. After renting both at my LGS range I decided on M&P 22 Compact.. Both were fine and reliable guns, but for me the M&P just felt better in my hand. I also was a bit turned off by the SR22's plastic recoil rod. I like steel as in the M&P.

I did query both Ruger and S&W about using CCI Stinger ammo. Both replied that they recommended not using that ammo in any of their rimfire guns. No details were given, but my research online led me to believe that the high pressure created on firing the Stinger was punshing the 22 barrels to their limit. So I concluded it was not a long term option because I did not want s barrel to rupture at some point in the future.

As for the Velocitor (and Stinger) I could not fins a ballistic test that showed any HP expansion out of a handgun. At the same time I found several reports that showed CCI Mini Mag HPs did expand when fires from a 3.5 inch barrel into ballistic gel. I also found a test of Mini Mag HP fired at a pig thigh bone (very thick). It blew the bone apart when hit at 10 feet, which is a likely distance in a SD encounter. Being able to penetrate bone is really important when it comes to incapacitation.

So I am a CCI Mini Mag advocate. I an not an expert but I a competent researcher. I make decisions based upon research not urban myth.
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:48 PM
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While I do not use .22s as my primary self defense firearm, I do have a bunch of .22s around and figured that having suitable ammo for defense if for some reason the .22 was all I had was smart. After a bunch of research and some trials on what fed 100% of the time I went with the recommendation from ShootingtheBull410 Ammo Quest and went with the CCI Mini-Mag 36-Grain Hollowpoint Troy Landry edition. I assume they are the same as the standard Mini-Mag HP, but as these had some testing and were available locally I grabbed a box to test and then several more once everything had a couple mags through them with out a hiccup.
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  #53  
Old 06-01-2017, 04:49 PM
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We are not talking here about what's best for us! Richard is not making this decision out of hand. His circumstances dictate this choice. His other choice is to quit carrying and shooting and have no option at all as far as personal protection is concerned.

The question here is what is best for him, in his situation, under the circumstances that he must deal with at this time in his life. I know a grandmother who carries a small .22LR revolver in her purse (not my choice of a place to carry, but ... I can tell you that I do not want her shooting at me!! I've seen her shoot it more than once.

If Richard can handle and shoot the gun of his choice well, and it appears he can (1000 rounds in three months is far more than about 90% of us here have fired ... I'm guessing here, and maybe it's 50 % ... you understand what I'm saying!), then I feel that we need to salute him for making this deliberate and intelligent decision.

If a person is going to carry at all, or even own a gun for just home protection, that person needs to have a gun that they can load and shoot to the best of their ability, and they need to be able to practice with it. I carry a different gun now because I cannot carry the weight of my previous choice all day long every day. And I am able to stand and fire it long enough and often enough to maintain as much proficiency as my old eyes and diminishing hand and arm strength will allow. If the day comes, and it will if I live long enough, I will continue to shoot something as long as I can see down the barrel well enough to hold it in place center mass.
I do what I do based on my needs and abilities. I enjoy hearing what others choose, but even when I was able to shoot anything that was available, my choices were still based on what was best for ME!

I've bought a few handguns that were really dandys. They did not fit my hand properly and I could not do my best shooting with them. I don't own them any more! We all (should) do the best we can with what we have and can afford and have some money left over for practice ammo. I still salute Richard for finding a solution that works for him, and I suspect anyone who thinks they can take advantage of him is going to be in for a very rude awakening! One shot stops are NOT guaranteed with any caliber or any gun. Having a gun and being willing to use it if necessary very very often makes a significant positive difference in outcomes!

I'm not trying to rag on any one here or disrespect their comments. We all want to help. But a man (or woman) has to know their limitations and then make arrangements to do the best they can do under those circumstances. I'm saying this to myself as much as to anyone else! Thanks for letting me do so.
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  #54  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:03 PM
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I had both my basal thumb joints go bad due to R/A and know just what you mean. I found an excellent hand surgeon here in Denver and he did a reconstruction of both thumbs using compressed cadaver ligament tissue to replace the basal joint bone. He told me that this procedure has been around for about half a century and is generally highly successful. It HAS been for me. I can handle my 1911's, my Sig P-239 .357 Sig that is my primary carry gun and almost all my revolvers. My M-29 and M-57 were just too much so I sold them and bought three more M-66's, which shoot just fine for me. Give this some thought. The .22 lr has probably killed more people than any other caliber, but not necessarily right away.
Good luck
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  #55  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:03 PM
vospertw vospertw is offline
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OP, one consideration for carry ammo. I just listened to an old podcast with Claude Werner answering a similar question. His recommendation was not to worry so much about HP vs round nose, etc. but to get the best match grade ammo that cycles reliably in your gun. In his opinion, the biggest downside to rimfire ammo is primer reliability. Match grade ammo will be pricier but you can count on it to go bang. Certainly practice with the bulk stuff. It was an interesting take on a topic usually dominated by penetration and expansion. In this case, hollow point or not, you are making tiny holes, so make sure you make a tiny hole every time you pull the trigger.
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  #56  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:20 PM
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I've got two LCR's. One in .22 LR (8 shot) and one in .327 mag. (6 shot). I'm not sure about relying on the .22, but I carry the .327 with .32 H&R's in it regularly. I'm 69 with some wrist issues and the .32 is very manageable.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:25 PM
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While I switch off between my LCP and my LC9S for concealed carry, I do a lot of target practice with a High-Standard Model 104 U.S. Property target pistol. However, one of my favorite wheel guns is a nickel 2-inch S&W 34-1. Amazingly, I'm as accurate with it as the H-S. If I were faced with the infirmities described, I'd not hesitate to carry the 34-1.
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  #58  
Old 06-01-2017, 05:33 PM
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Anything is better than no weapon at all. One of my former "honor students" got himself killed by a 22 while doing a home invasion. Not a one shot stop but he got shot, ran outside, and died in the homeowner's front yard.
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Old 06-01-2017, 05:42 PM
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Any .22 L.R. that would expand would not give reliable penetration.
My KelTec .32 acp has very little recoil, and with the copper LeHigh bullet gives the penetration of a .380 acp. Reliability of a centerfire primer.
Obvious downside too $$$ to practice with compared to .22 or even a 9mm.
I had a Beretta 21A 22 L.R.once, got rid of it. No matter what ammo or magazine changes, I would have failures to extract 3 times each magazine. The Pistol uses blowback to extract the shell rather than an extractor and you are limited to punching the bullet out rather than racking the slide.
My 21A .25 acp was 100%. Got rid of it too when I got my .32.
I think Beretta may make a tilt up that chambers the .32 acp.
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  #60  
Old 06-01-2017, 06:00 PM
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I have seen plenty of folks who met their end thanks to a .22 (or ballistically similar .25). If I were carrying a .22lr in a shorter barrel firearm I would try some 60 grain Aguila SSS. My logic being that nothing is going to have a chance to get fast enough to reliably expand out of a short barrel. The heavier bullet should shed its momentum slower and penetrate better. The SSS has a reputation for tumbling (good AFTER striking the target) so I would make sure your barrel stabilizes it at the distances you are likley to shoot.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:17 PM
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.22 LR can be a very lethal round if properly employed. From my studies, maximum penetration (desirable) is achieved with high speed solids rather than hollow points.

Jeff Cooper, who far exceeded my gun knowledge, once wrote that the best employment of a .22 is to shoot for the eye sockets. Hollow points to the body have worked, but don't usually don't penetrate very far into the vitals. "Stopping power" with a body hit is nil - but following Cooper's advice would be wise - a hit to an eyeball at close range would stop a fight.

John
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  #62  
Old 06-01-2017, 06:18 PM
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Default Just carry one......

Just carry one with some cartridge capacity and give any perp a couple shots more.
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  #63  
Old 06-01-2017, 06:22 PM
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The fine tilt barrel Berettas (380acp, 32acp, 25acp & 22lr) are designed (in part) for those who have trouble racking the slide in automatic pistols... There is no 22lr tilt barrel (to my knowledge) in the 80-Series guns. The 32acp Tomcat is probably the best compromise (centerfire vs. rimfire, 32acp vs. 22lr) over the 25acp, IMHO, and I've gone with the Bobcat because mine just flat works with CCI MiniMags.

Just try to find one?

Cheers!

P.S. An 8-shot 22lr revolver pretty much takes the rimfire vs. centerfire "reliability question" to rest...
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:13 PM
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You are correct. The 22 LR is extremely fast and light. As a result it is probably one of the 'worst' or 'best' bullets to be hit with depending on which end of it you are. Due to the velocity it may bounce around various parts of the body, hitting a bone and veering around inside the body causing a great deal of damage to organs. LEOs are not particularly fond of it for that reason, particularly having to encounter one. Of course if we miss the target it can travel and ricochet a considerable distance and end up causing a lot of damage if it hits someone. The soft lead non-hp bullet can expand upon impact with a soft body. According to the information on the box they can travel 1 mile. As frequently stated, ' Carry what you are comfortable with'. I would not want choose to face one.

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Old 06-01-2017, 07:33 PM
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For self defense I have no issues with anyone choosing a snub .22, though a .22 wmr would be my choice.

It seems to be generally acknowledged that: the mere presentation of a handgun is effective in stopping most threats-that a revolver is more intimidating than a semi and that in the rare circumstances when one will have to fire it will be at very close ranges-head shots, including a follow up if needed could be delivered with surgical precision with a .22 lr.

The Mrs. will alternate between her .22 mag/.357 and 9mm LCR-her preference is the .22 mag which she is astoundingly accurate with. I don't give it a second thought when she leaves with this remarkable handgun. She chambers two shot shells, the balance are 40g, jhp-I can't imagine anyone continuing after just one snoot full of pepper, and I am confident that the aggressor will fall with one of the hp rds in the head.

Lightweight, Compact Ruger LCR 22 Magnum Pocket Revolver

Thankfully I did not know the real deal with Ruger when we bought the LCR's, and for that I am happy-they are that good.
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  #66  
Old 06-01-2017, 08:14 PM
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My Dad (long since gone) in his declining years kept downsizing his carry gun.
His strength and ability to handle the recoil just kept shrinking. When he finally got to the 22 I told him I would buy him anything else he wanted to carry or give him any one of mine. His response was "Do you want to stand in front of it?" Uh, no Dad, carry what you want.
This from a man who spent 2+ years island hopping in the south pacific in WWII, was shot, stabbed, was still having pieces of shrapnel coming up through his skin years later, taken prisoner (that lasted one day, he killed his guards and took there guns and ran into the jungle. He always told me "a .45 up close stops everything" and he knew as he shot people with every round uncle sam provided. He had no problem with the .22 He never felt under gunned, matter of fact he didn't care what the round was, he knew he could make any of them do what he needed.
He pounded into us as we grew up.......if you need to shoot, keep shooting till it runs dry, and make em count.
I congratulate you on the efforts to become proficient with your carry gun, that's the bottom line.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by swsig View Post
richardw, I'm going to approach your problem differently from everyone else. Instead of suggesting a change of caliber, I'm going to suggest a change in statins. I am 73, and a year ago, I was in the same situation you are in. I'd developed lots of pain in my shoulders which spread to my wrists and hands. I had to install an Apex kit in my M&P 40 so I could pull the trigger. I could barely lift my range bag. My Harvard med school trained hand doctor said he'd never seen a case like mine, and wasn't sure what was wrong. I didn't fit into any traditional arthritis category.

Subsequently, my primary care physician's nurse practitioner hypothesized I was having a reaction to atorvastatin (generic Lipitor), and told me to stop taking it. I told her I'd been taking 40 mg per day for 15 years without a single side effect. She said give it a try, so I did. I stated feeling better after a week, and after a month, all of my shoulder pain and 90% of my wrist and hand pain were gone. My cardiologist then prescribed a low dose (10 mg) of rosuvastatin (generic Crestor), which has controlled my cholesterol as well as the atorvastatin did, with no side effects.

As a result, I can now shoot what I want. Today, I went to the range and fired 150 rounds of .45, and 100 rounds of .40 with no problems. If your situation is anything like mine, you might want to check your statin to see if it might be the culprit. However, if you are one of the 1% of the people in our age group who is not taking a statin, good for you, and... never mind!
I have never been on statins. My doc is always amazed at my bloodwork. I have amazing numbers in both types of cholesterol. Both the good and bad kind are so in my favor that he is continually amazed. Some of us get lucky.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
I carry an SR22 most of the year loaded with Stingers. plus 1 extra mag.

I'm 74 and no physical problems shooting yet.
After much reserch I narrowed my gun choise down to the SR22 and the M&P 22 Compact. I rented both at my LGS range. They were both great, but the M&P just felt better in the hand. Walked off the range and bought one.

Prior to that I had spent a lot of hours researching ammo. CCI came out a reliable winner. I was attracted to Stinger because of its velocity to weight relation. But further research showed that it fails to expand from a handgun because the velociity from a handgun is substantially less than from a rifle, which is what is used to set velocity ratings. Everything I found online pointed to CCI Mini Mag HP as the best choice.

At brassfetcher.com there is a comprehensive test of 22 HP expansion. Mini Mag was second best. Winchester Super x was first but I passed it bybbecause other reviews indicated that Winchester rimfire was undependable and CCI was dependable.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
After much reserch I narrowed my gun choise down to the SR22 and the M&P 22 Compact. I rented both at my LGS range. They were both great, but the M&P just felt better in the hand. Walked off the range and bought one.

Prior to that I had spent a lot of hours researching ammo. CCI came out a reliable winner. I was attracted to Stinger because of its velocity to weight relation. But further research showed that it fails to expand from a handgun because the velociity from a handgun is substantially less than from a rifle, which is what is used to set velocity ratings. Everything I found online pointed to CCI Mini Mag HP as the best choice.

At brassfetcher.com there is a comprehensive test of 22 HP expansion. Mini Mag was second best. Winchester Super x was first but I passed it bybbecause other reviews indicated that Winchester rimfire was undependable and CCI was dependable.
My first carry gun was also a .22 although I never put that kind of research into the gun or ammo, I just used CCI Blazers because they were cheap and reliable. The mini mags are probably a much better choice. If you shoot it well and you're comfortable with your choice then it sounds like you made the right decision for yourself.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:23 PM
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Just remember to stop pulling the trigger when the threat has ended. And that will be determined by people at a later date. So 8 or 10 shots of 22 may land you in a world of problems and 1 or 2 will do the perp. in, but will take a while
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:39 PM
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As an old (almost 78) Viet Nam vet with rotator cuff issues, I can empathize with the author. I heartily agree with the choice of what ever caliber one finds comfortable. That means you are more likely to hit the target! Also agree with regular practice. (Radical thought!) I can still work with a 9mm, but the old 1911 is putting too much stress on my old parts. Browning HP and H&K P7 are personal favorites. I do like my old S&W 22 kit gun; it is so accurate with this old man that I sometimes wonder about it! One should not disregard the Walther PPKS in .22LR, as it was the choice of Israeli Mossad ops for certain situations. I am sure that choice was not made lightly!
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:51 PM
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richardw -
I'm with you in the age and arthritis department. I tried pocket revolvers, but they don't conceal as easily as a flat semi auto. I've gone from 1911 commander to a duty size nine to a S&W 638. I'm now down to a .380 Sig P238 because I can work the slide with my arthritic left hand. It's gotten so bad, all four of my left hand's PNP joints have gone solid and I can't close my hand or make a fist. I tried the 9mm P938, but its heavier buffer spring and magazine springs are now beyond my capability to manipulate reliably.
So I adapt and overcome, just like you have. The immortal words of Staff Sgt. James Monroe Uptagrafft ring in my ears still
"Men, you don't have to like it; you just have to do it."
Keep on truckin'!
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:02 PM
mfholmes mfholmes is offline
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I normally carry an M&P 40C because I like the assurance of the extra lead. But years ago when I was looking for something flatter to carry that still had some punch I settled on an old S&W 2214. Very nice little package in a 22 cal pistol. Then I checked it out with the Aguila Sniper Subsonic 22 round with the 60 grain lead. It cycled with no problems, and it's plenty accurate within 25'. I figured that 60 grain slug gave it a bit more authority, and it's still my go-to many times in light summer clothing. Great little pocket piece, and comfortable shooting.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
I read somewhere a long time ago, maybe by Bill Jordan, that more folks
have been killed with a 22 than any other caliber, If you don't count those
killed in wars.
I have a beat-up first edition of Bill Jordan's book on gunfighting, "No Second Place Winner" boxed up somewhere where I can't easily retrieve it, so I'm going to have to paraphrase. He advocated for a then non-existant gun for concealed carry; a snub-nose revolver chambered for .22 WMR. I was surprised when I first read that, but the man was knowledgeable in ways I never will be. I started out with a Glock model 27, which is being converted to a model 26. Being 61, the thought of a .22-caliber-something sounds appealing. As a previous poster wrote, growing old is not for sissies...

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Old 06-01-2017, 11:29 PM
silversnake silversnake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuubee View Post
I have a beat-up first edition of Bill Jordan's book on gunfiighting, "No Second Place Winner" boxed up somewhere where I can't easily retrieve it, so I'm going to have to paraphrase. He advocated for a then non-existant gun for concealed carry; a snub-nose revolver chambered for .22 WMR. I was surprised when I first read that, but the man was knowledgeable in ways I never will be. I started out with a Glock model 27, which is being converted to a model 26. Being 61, the thought of a .22-caliber-something sounds appealing. As a previous poster wrote, growing old is not for sissies...
I'm a huge fan of Bill Jordan and his book but I don't think .22 WMR has really lived up to his expectations, at least not in a snubby. Out of a 6" barrel, or a rifle sure, but in a 2" barrel the performance is hardly better than .22 LR. If I wanted a step up in power from .22 but little recoil I'd look into .32 S&W Long.

My source: BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results
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Old 06-02-2017, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kff41 View Post
Just remember to stop pulling the trigger when the threat has ended. And that will be determined by people at a later date. So 8 or 10 shots of 22 may land you in a world of problems and 1 or 2 will do the perp. in, but will take a while
I hear you. Right on! I went to the USMC school of one shot one kill. While I think that a few more rounds of 22 are needed over 22 my practice and goal is to neutralize the target with one shot. With a 22 that shot entires the eye socke and bites the brain.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:08 AM
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richardw: First, thank you for your service!!!

It's been an interesting thread, thanks for starting it. There has been a ton of great comments and advice covering almost everything I can think of to say, and I have little to add.

The only thing is when you talked about shooting in your garage and the ventilation, I thought about when I had a darkroom in my garage. Most people seem to put exhaust fans in their darkrooms, but I found some excellent advice in a magazine (this was in the days before the internet even existed) that said pushing air into the room was better because an exhaust fan draws dust from every nook and cranny while removing the chemical fumes, but pushing air in creates positive pressure and minimizes contamination while the fumes and dust in the air are forced out of whatever exit port you have or make.

Blowing air into a darkroom requires a good filter, but I don't see needing one for a garage shooting gallery. My garage has a vent high in the ceiling that lets air out, so a pusher fan works out very well. (I actually have a small swamp cooler to do the job.)

As another poster suggested having a fan directly behind you to blow the smoke towards the target, and it sounds like a good idea. It wouldn't have to be blowing hard to be effective. All things considered, I doubt you risk much in the way of lead poisoning, but why take the risk?

It sounds like you have things well in hand. I wish you all the best,

Harold

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Old 06-02-2017, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by silversnake View Post
I'm a huge fan of Bill Jordan and his book but I don't think .22 WMR has really lived up to his expectations, at least not in a snubby. Out of a 6" barrel, or a rifle sure, but in a 2" barrel the performance is hardly better than .22 LR. If I wanted a step up in power from .22 but little recoil I'd look into .32 S&W Long.

My source: BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results
I don't want to disrespect BBTI, but their .22 mag test was not their best work. They did not test any real short barrel guns (shortest was 4.625") and right on the test page they state that at the shortest barrel lengths they were not getting accurate results from their chronographs. You can find several ballistics tests on Youtube (including from ShootingTheBull) that contradict BBTI's results.
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:30 AM
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22LR was good enough for Mossad. I believe they carried Beretta 71's. The idea is to point the weapon at the center of mass, moving toward the BG, empty all 10 rounds into his thorax, if you miss, the risk of collateral damage is minimal. Very important consideration on an airplane or in a dense city.
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:57 AM
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Well, I'd rather take care of my joints and live without pain than continue to punish myself shooting a "powerful" round that most likely I'll never need. So I completely agree with your choice.

.22 LR is not a BB gun. It's a serious, deadly round. I really, really doubt that anyone of us can take one to the head and "shrug it off".

PS: Only change I'd make is going with ball ammo, not HP.

Be safe out there.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:13 AM
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My first concern and biggest is that it is a rimfire round. Now as for: It has killed more people blah, blah - that is completely irrelevant; the goal is to stop the assault. The I wouldn't want to get shot with X is also a pointless statement; I don't want to get shot with anything, that doesn't make it a good choice. That phrase should never be uttered again! OK back to the point at hand I would feel much better with say a 32 than a rimfire and it doesn't have to be the smallest one out there. In the end you do what you have to but I would look for a centerfire solution if you can.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
I don't want to disrespect BBTI, but their .22 mag test was not their best work. They did not test any real short barrel guns (shortest was 4.625") and right on the test page they state that at the shortest barrel lengths they were not getting accurate results from their chronographs. You can find several ballistics tests on Youtube (including from ShootingTheBull) that contradict BBTI's results.
Oh that's good to know! I looked at one of ShootingTheBull410's videos, his velocities were about 150 fps faster than what BBTI got. Maybe I'll have to take another look at this round.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:47 AM
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No problem with the 22. A ruger LCR 22 is my wife's night stand companion...and I've seen her shoot it.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversnake View Post
I'm a huge fan of Bill Jordan and his book but I don't think .22 WMR has really lived up to his expectations, at least not in a snubby. Out of a 6" barrel, or a rifle sure, but in a 2" barrel the performance is hardly better than .22 LR. If I wanted a step up in power from .22 but little recoil I'd look into .32 S&W Long.

My source: BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results
If you only have a two inch (or shorter) tube the .22WMR's extra powder doesn't do anything [except maybe set the bad guy's hair on fire;-)].

OP said he had made decision to go to .22lr. Respecting that, comments on other calibers are off-topic.

Boy, a Walnut gripped blue 5 screw 1905 I frame in .32 S&W Long (or a .22/32) would look great in a natural leather shoulder holster. Get a pair of 32Js and you'd be 'Smokin' (style wise).
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:01 PM
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I agree with the OP 100% on this. In fact, I started a virtually identical thread on this forum about two weeks ago. Let me quote from my initial post:


"As much as I hate to admit it, I am getting older. I’m not sure how that happened. And before anyone dismisses this, be assured, this WILL happen to you. You WILL get older and your body WILL be affected. Anyway, I have had to adjust my handgun ownership and carry habits to accommodate my physical abilities. Arthritis is beginning to take a toll on my hand strength and dexterity, particularly my left (non-dominant) hand. It has caused me to change my EDC rotation."

To those who say "this won't happen to me" or "I exercise my hands with some device or other so I'll never have to do this"... WRONG!!!

This is going to happen to you at some point. Period.

Walk a mile in their shoes. Stop telling someone else what you think THEY should do. Quite denigrating their choice of weapon/ammo. My EDC weapons rotate between .32ACP and .22LR for EXACTLY the same reasons.

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Old 06-02-2017, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J. View Post
Have you tried .22 mags ? Little more firepower and not much more recoil. I believe there are several nice revolvers available in .22 mag.
I have a Ruger LCR in .22 and the same in .22 WMR. I use them to practice instead of the LCR 38 +P that I sometimes carry. It's a matter of economics. I would suggest the WMR before the LR since the stopping power should be better and the configuration is the same. Also if you just have the .22 then you might want to consider the Stinger (LR) and TNT for WMR. I have similar but not identical problems and I can still do the 9mm auto and .38 +P but now I know that there is hope asI move into the more golden years
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:19 PM
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Semper Fi. I really appreciate the chance to read your post and the many fine responses from others in our Forum. I hope you are feeling better and I wish you the best in working out some of the issues associated with moving forward in life. At 80, I may be the youngest (at heart) in the group and want to assure everyone that the issues raised here for seniors are not uncommon as they relate to arming yourself for defense.

If the 22 works for you then you should use it. Familiarize your self with your choice, whether a .25, 22, .32, 38 etc. They all sizzle and will do the job for you in reliability, accuracy. Just know their capabilities and limitations and practice accordingly.

For issues with the hands, consider shooter gloves or any light mechanics glove. I'm still able to shoot several calibers at the range and use a light pair of mechanics gloves because of severe nerve damage and pain in my hands. This helps reduce the impact of recoil and enables me to grip and rack the slide on my semi-autos.

I always dress super-casually so I carry pocket size whenever I go out. A snub S&W 38 + P is adequate but a little heavy on the recoil side. I make sure I carry/wear a glove for the occasion. I would not hesitate to carry 22,.25, .32 if that is what I can handle.

In my state it's legal to carry a loaded handgun in your vehicle without a CWP and it is supported by the Castle Doctrine. Here's where I can make up the difference in power and capacity when I am out and about. This also applies to home defense where the options are unlimited, ranging from an AR-15, high capacity semi-auto pistol, tac shotguns, just to name a few.

My right rotator cuff has improved over the last couple of years but it clearly won't ever be the same. I've really pampered it whenever I could and that might have helped. I've found Biofreeze helps reduce the raw pain in the hands, feet, back etc. Last I checked you could still get it at Walmart or Amazon.com. Take care guys. Good shooting, good defense.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:17 PM
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I've seen several posts to the effect of "a .22 may kill an attacker after he has had time to beat you to death".

I worked violent crimes on Indian reservations in the West for 17 of my 33 years in law enforcement. By far the most common firearm used was the humble .22, usually a rifle but in many cases a handgun. Some were straight up murders, but plenty were instances where the gun was used to stop an assault.

In every case involving a .22 repeating rifle, the result was a fatal and immediate cessation of hostilities. Every one.

I had one case where a battered wife shot her hubby in the front teeth with a German .22 magnum single action. He realized the error of his ways and staggered to the neighbors for a ride to the hospital while she made a run for the Canadian border. He had a hole in the roof of his mouth but no bullet in him anywhere. I found it in the house in a pool of blood, surrounded by green Chiclets that turned out to be teeth. He lived, but he sure stopped what he was doing.

I'm sure there are cases somewhere out there of a determined assailant swatting away a swarm of impotent .22 rounds like bees while advancing on a victim, but I suspect they are rare.

I still shoot my big boomers on occasion, but I often carry a .32 and have a lovely Beretta Model 87 .22 on hand for my rapidly approaching geezerhood.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:24 PM
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Richardw,
God bless you. As a police firearms instructor let me say keep practicing and enjoy the .22lr in your M&P cuz bullet placement trumps all other BS
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:45 PM
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As I said earlier my wife really likes her .22 M&P C...... but at 63 this thread is really getting me thinking about digging out the Interarms PPK/s in .32apc..... IIRC they are 8+1
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:33 PM
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Looked up several (avalible on the web) chrony tests on .22lr and .22wmr out of 1.875" LCR revolvers. Different ammo different guys testing with different chronys likley set up differently. Seem to top out very similarly. About 1100 fps. I read this as the limit imposed by that short barrel. SSS seems to top out just under 800.
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Old 06-02-2017, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
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Richardw,
God bless you. As a police firearms instructor let me say keep practicing and enjoy the .22lr in your M&P cuz bullet placement trumps all other BS
Amen Smith 61. I am in total agreement. When I went through Paris Island in 1959 the concept of one shot one kill was instilled in me forever. It saved my butt severalmtimes during four tours in Nam. As a platoon sergeant on my last tour I would tell mu Marines: "Listen up! You will come under fire. It sucks. The only good way to deal with it is to identify your target, take aim, and shoot. Trust me, if you do that you will live longer than if you just spray rounds downstream. Nothing surpasses accuracy."

I am still of that belief. Now that I am carrying a mouse gun it is a vital requirement. If need be, I will place my first three shots in the face, aiming between the eyes. Shoot high and the round penetrates the occipital skull. Shoot right or left and you likely hit an eye. Those three points mean your are getting to the brain. Shoot low and you hit the mouth and that means the bullet is traveling righ in line with the brain stem.

A brain hit from a 22 only requires one round to stop the BG. However I train to triple tap on that sight picture. Next stop is the sternum. Above it is the throat, lungs on each side of it. Heart on the lower left, and major artery to the left and major vein to the right. Triple tap again. Since I carry 10 + 1 that leaves me with five rounds in the gun. I carry two extra magazines all the time. That's another 20 rounds.

If I ever get into civilian firefight I might be killed, but I guarantee you that the other guy will realize he was in the worst fight of his life.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:23 PM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
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To the OP. I don't see a problem with your choices however given your circumstances I wonder if firing 100 rounds a week is really necessary. The more practice the better but perhaps an alternative would be to practice with the rimfire and still carry the 9mm?
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Smith61 View Post
Richardw,
God bless you. As a police firearms instructor let me say keep practicing and enjoy the .22lr in your M&P cuz bullet placement trumps all other BS
It all boils down to this ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:47 PM
JGR_LV JGR_LV is offline
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Default Bill Jordan was right.

I learned that one in my first hunter safety class, back when you still could get wooly mammoth tags in California. As somebody pointed out, lethality isn't the same as stopping power, but statistically a .22LR is one of the nastiest things there is to get shot by, as Ronald Reagan and the surgical staff at Walter Reed found out. The problem is that a soft lead slug moving at fairly low speed doesn't just drill a hole. It tumbles around, bounces off things and can end up in very strange places and do a lot of damage on the way.
The OP clearly understands the basic rule of choosing a carry gun: Carry the biggest thing you can reliably hit with. A .22LR, or even a .22 Short, between the eyes is instantly lethal. A .44 Magnum past the ear just is a wasted round when the SHTF. The M&P 22 is a good compromise in terms of being small enough to carry concealed and big enough to provide a decent grip and trigger pull. My wife is having the same sort of thumb issues. She carries a Colt Agent because, while she can still handle the recoil reasonably well, that bass-ackward Colt cylinder latch is easier for her to work than the one on my Model 60.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:06 PM
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All this 22 talk makes me miss my Beretta 21.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
To the OP. I don't see a problem with your choices however given your circumstances I wonder if firing 100 rounds a week is really necessary. The more practice the better but perhaps an alternative would be to practice with the rimfire and still carry the 9mm?
There is a reason why Army and Marine Infantry train with same caliber and weapon they will have to fight with. I say this having been a trainer of Marines for my last 15 years in the Corps. In combat your life depends upon your training. You train with the weapons you will be ccalled upon to use. Because training with a substitute will just not make you expert with your battle weapon.

When I got to E7 Gunnery Sergeant on my fourth Nam tour I was able to have an M1911 issued to me and I took it. I had qualified with that gun for years but never carried one until that fourth year in Nam. I have since shot 45 ACP, .40, 9mm, and now 22. I can assure everyone reading this that training with the 22 would be good familiarization for a noobie. However while it might teach you the basics it is not going to condition you to handle the wrist and hand jolting experience so a larger caliber.

Train with what you might have to fight with. That is the fundamental idea behind training. The people who preach otherwiise, and there are many of them, are just of ****. I believe that it is good to learn to shoot with a small caliber. I learned at 7 with 22. I got the basics down with that Savage pump rifle. At 18 I was pushing rounds out of an M1 Garand in boot camp. As a kid I learned sight alignment and trigger pull with the 22. As a Marine recruit I learned to translate that into aiming a M1 and qualifying as Sharpshooter. But the 22 training never prepared me for the recoil and weight of the M1. It did however teach me how to get sights on and hit a target. In the end that is what it is all about. But it is a hell of a lot easier to sight a target and make the shot count with the gun you trained wth.
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Old 06-03-2017, 07:34 AM
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For civilian self defense/cc a revolver in any small caliber is more than sufficient and a revolver may be much more effective than a 'boomer' or 'master blaster' positively more jury friendly without doubt.

Guardians and other professionals of course require more, much more.

Disclaimer:
I fully support the decision of anyone to legally carry any style firearm for any legal purpose, heck carry a full auto if you wish.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:07 AM
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M76 anyone?
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:51 AM
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I've prescribed to carrying a 22lr for a long time now. Early on it was all I had and was cheap to feed on a regular basis. They are easy to keep on target placing multiple shots in an area where they count. Over the years I've had bigger caliber guns but I keep a 22 on hand. Using a 22 for EDC requires a different mindset. Practice differently and plan differently. When I switch up my EDC to a 22 I don't feel under gunned. In fact there is a shift in confidence, a surety feeling knowing I can actually shoot better thereby better defending myself better.
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