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Old 05-31-2017, 07:46 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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Default Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)

At 75 my arthritis in both hands is getting worse. My severely damaged and unrepairable right rotator cuff is diminishing my right arm strength in a troubling way. I carry a Ruger Lc9s because it is light and my rotator cuff can handle the weight without my arm becoming unstable.

I practice shooting two days a week with my Ruger. I shoot about 50 rounds each time to assure I can hit my selected target. But lately I have been having increased pain in my right hand. It has a deteriorating base thumb knuckle just like my left hand did some years ago. Today, I cannot get a reliable, steady grip on a gun with my left hand. My right thumb is headed in that direction. No way to stop it. It just is a fact,of old age.

Today my arthritis/hand specialist who carries a .40 and knows I carry and shoot regularly advised me to stop the use of my 9mm. He says the recoil is putting pressure on the base thumb joint, and all that is doing is aggravating the arthritis causing more deterioration to the joint. He suggested going to .380 at maximum or just stopping target shooting. But I decided to take a different course.

A couple months ago I bought a M&P 22 Compact. While I took it to the range every week I found a Bushnell 22 caliber bullet trap at a gun show for $30.00. I set it up in my basement with a good exhaust fan in a window. Now I shoot it in the basement. Because of its nearly non existent recoil it does not irritate my thumb. I have gotten more accurate with it than with my Lc9s. Generally I shoot a 22LR group of five rounds into a 1.5 inch cluster at 25 feet. I can do that in about four seconds. So that started me thinking.

I had done some research on the self defense lethality of the 22LR from a handgun. Turns out it is more lethal than most people think. Theo reason is the ability to lshoot a 1.5 inch group
into a vital spot of the body aa like the thorax or head, and do it in less than five seconds.

So I have decided to preserve the thumb and adopt the 22 Compact for EDC. My research also indicated that the best ammo was the CCI Mini Mag HP. At brassfetcher.com there is a good test of 22LR HP expansion. The Mini Mag was second only to a Winchester Super X HP. Problem was that there are many reported incidents of failures of the Winchester rounds and none of the CCI Mini Mag HPs. So I have a new EDC combo. The 22C and Mini Mags. It is a gun my impaired rotator cuff can accommodate and my thumb can work with. Life moves on but not always the way envisioned it. So keeping highly precise accuracy under duress is my new challenge.

Last edited by richardw; 07-06-2017 at 03:52 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2017, 08:06 PM
noshow noshow is offline
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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Default Good for you!

And thanks for posting! I am 74 and my right rotator cuff is inflamed most of the time. Being a revolver guy who does not EDC, my night stand gun has been a S&W Mod 10(HB) loaded with +P HPs for 40 years. Just raising it to line of sight causes extreme discomfort in my upper arm. You just inspired me to replace it with my S&W J frame 22LR kit gun loaded with Mini Mag HPs. Getting old has it's downside, but it sure beats the alternative!


PS: Aleve(blue pill) helps the best in relieving the pain from inflamation

Last edited by noshow; 05-31-2017 at 08:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:11 PM
silversnake silversnake is offline
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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.22 LR isn't perfect but there's not many criminals who will shrug off several well-placed .22s. If I end up limited by age or injury I would carry a .22 myself, I think it would suffice for most confrontations.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:12 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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I've carried a Beretta 21A in .22lr and a Ruger LCR9mm revolver with very light 147gr handloads and the recoil is minimal. Also the Glock 42 .380 is pretty mild in my experience.

That said my M&P 22 compact is about 97% because sometimes it fails to pick up a cartridge from time to time. It does have an extractor though, which I wish the Beretta 21A had.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:16 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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I'd personally rather carry a j frame loaded with wadcutters than any .22 LR. There is a difference between lethality and stopping power. I understand your having to adapt to your limitations. We all are getting there. Good luck!
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:22 PM
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I would never argue with someone about their choice of caliber and I fully understand that sometimes physical factors can play a major role in things. However, I did want to toss out the main problem that I would have relying on a 22LR for self defense. My main issue is with ignition reliability in a rim fire cartridge. I'm sure we've all been at the range having fun going through a large box of 22's. Inevitably, a few of those rounds just won't fire- not even after several attempts. I just wouldn't trust that the round I might have to fire to save my life wouldn't be one of those "duds".

I will add that if carrying something chambered in 22LR was my only option then I think I would definitely carry a revolver. If that first round doesn't fire, at least a quick second pull of the trigger gets me a fresh round.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:22 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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It rumored that Ruger's gonna come out with an LC380s.
If they actually do, it might be worth looking into.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:30 PM
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Sorry to learn of your difficulties. I do think your approach is good. You'll probably never need it anyway, but if you do, your ability and confidence in your 22 should get you by.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:47 PM
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Your better armed than most of the people around you. They don't carry at all. I see where you are at. I'm just starting the jorney. Had to quit 357 but can still handle 38s.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:55 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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Have you tried .22 mags ? Little more firepower and not much more recoil. I believe there are several nice revolvers available in .22 mag.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:58 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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Better a .22 in the hand, than a 9MM at home, when you need it.

Next time you go gun "window shopping", check out one of the Beretta .22 tip up pistols. I think Taurus makes one too.


Baby Berettas: A tale of tip up barrels - Guns.com


Beretta Model 21 22LR Pistol Review & Disassembly - YouTube
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:27 PM
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I think you've made an excellent choice!
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:40 PM
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I have two .22LR High Standard Sentinels stuck back for my "geezer" guns. One is 4 in. sq. butt and the other is 2 in.(?) with a round butt. I have quit loading the .44M to the max. and sometimes the .45ACP and .357M hurts to shoot. I still think 9 .22s would be like a hornets nest and nobody can stand that. Larry
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:56 PM
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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I've killed an awful lot of stuff with a .22LR.. I don't think a BG getting hit with a hail storm of .22 is gonna want to play very long.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:58 PM
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Nothing wrong with that. I've often been tempted to carry a Ruger Standard or Mark II with 4" barrel. It's an accurate shooter that has a lighter trigger than your M&P. Easy to hold and very light recoil when shooting. With the right ammo it could be a force to reckon with, but I've never been able to find anyone who would make an IWB holster for it.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:12 PM
Double-O-Dave Double-O-Dave is offline
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Hi Richard W:

I also suffer from arthritis in my hands and wrists, and I need to have surgery on my right hand due to arthritis in my thumb. I typically carry .38 Special revolvers now as my hand strength and manual dexterity is so poor that I have trouble manipulating the slide on semiautos. On days when my arthritis is really bad, I carry my 432PD chambered in .32 H&R Magnum. I also recently added a Beretta Tomcat chambered in .32ACP that will be for my daughter once she acquires her LTC. She is petite, and has poor hand strength.

As BlackTalonJHP mentioned in his post (#11), the Beretta Tomcat has the tip up barrel that means you don't have to cycle the slide to load and unload the piece. I am not questioning or challenging your choice of using .22LR pistols for your EDC, but just offering an opinion, and hopefully another option.

Best of luck to you, and thank you for your service to our country.

Regards,

Dave

PS - sorry, I should have identified the handguns in my photos. 1st photo: CZ-70 in .32ACP (left), Seecamp in .32ACP (center), S&W 432PD in .32 H&R Magnum (right). 2nd (middle) photo: Beretta Tomcat in .32ACP (left), Seecamp (top), CZ-70 (right). 3rd photo: CZ-70 (left), Seecamp (top), Beretta Tomcat with barrel tipped up (right).

Regards,

Dave
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:14 PM
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shoot the 22 but carry the Lc9s .. by shooting the 22 you will stay proficient but carrying the 9mm you will keep the stopping power you might need ..

Doing this won't hurt your thump by shooting the 22 ..
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:28 PM
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Rule #1 of a gunfight: Have a gun!
Beyond that, carry what you are able to shoot well.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:34 PM
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As that great student of the human condition, Dirty Harry, once remarked, A MANS GOT TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS. If you can hit with the .22 and you are cognizant of it's limitations, it is far better than throwing rocks. If I recall correctly the principle body guard of a recent Mexican president carried a .22.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:43 PM
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Means absolutely nothing statistically, but in my years on the job I saw 2 shootings in which the shootee dropped immediately and never moved: a .45 ACP (ball) between the eyes and a .22 LR HP to the chest. Then there was the truly hyped individual who took 5 .357 Mags to the chest and nearly outran the pursuing officer.

As someone said: have a gun. I truly applaud your commitment to shooting twice weekly. Follow your doctor's advice and be safe.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:46 PM
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I think you've made a good sound reasoned decision. I'd rather carry a pistol and cartridge I know I can shoot without the risk of worrying about my own physical condition than a combination that only deteriorates my condition.

The fact that the M&P pistols are very ergonomic and spread out the recoil in your hand must also help. I've had very few misfires with Mini Mags in my M&P 22 FS. My M&P seems to prefer hotter ammo anyway
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:46 PM
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I believe you are on the right track with your thinking.

Messing with someone armed with a .22 and can shoot it well sounds more dangerous to me than messing with most of the people I see at the range shooting 9MM and such. Bottom line, you have to be able to hit what you are shooting at. My father was 82nd Airborne and a pretty good shot with rifles, shotguns and handguns. His "go to" handgun was a .22 Browning Challenger.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:00 AM
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Each of us must do what we have to do. Each of us is different and have different challenges. I believe you have made an informed and intelligent decision for yourself. If you are confident you can get good hits with that .22LR, and if you can shoot it enough to remain proficient with it, then you are doing the best you can do with what you have to do with.

I like to remember that nine 22LR rounds to center mass equals the same number of hits that you get with a standard 12 gauge 00 Buck shotgun shell. 9 forty grain 22 LR bullets equals 360 grains of lead! Best part of the deal is each of those rounds are going to strike in a sllghtly different location, and the chances are pretty good that one or more of those bullets is going to strike something important. They give enough penetration to get inside where the important stuff is located. There will be several places inside that are leaking red water!

I investigated a shooting that involved one round of .22LR. It entered the abdomen area of a large man's body, struck the pelvis, richocheted upward to a rib bone, down again to the pelvis and back up into the stomach. Autopsy revealed 29 perforations of the intestinal system, including the stomach. One kidney was nicked and some other important stuff was damaged. The pathologist was heard to remark that the man died from a really bad gut ache!

Every shooting is pretty much a law unto itself. No real telling what is liable to happen. I will say this. I'd rather take my chances being shot by one or maybe two rounds of any caliber than six or eight or more of .22LR. Experience tells me that the outcome of the latter is very likely to be a very negative experience!!!

I applaud you for making the necessary changes in order to keep on shooting and protecting yourself for as long as you can. The time will come for each of us, if we live long enough, that we will have to give up shooting altogether. I have watched this happen to both my dad and my FIL. Neither of them were pleased to give it up, but there simply was no other option. The last handgun my dad possessed was a K22 that I gave him back in the 80's. I've seen him kill several jackrabbits that were definitely a good rifle shot distant. But for the same reasons you state, it got to the point where he just did not have the hand and arm strength to use it. Sad day for both of us!

Good on you, Sir! I wish for you several more years of being able to shoot with your .22LR. I think you are pretty well covered!!!
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:10 AM
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You need a fan behind you to push the smoke away from you. The exhaust fan in the window isn't enough. Probably also a good idea to tent your range in plastic then you'd keep the lead out of the basement if you're going to go high volume in your practice. Just my $0.02 as a rimfire rifle competitive shooter in college.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snubbyfan View Post
It rumored that Ruger's gonna come out with an LC380s.
If they actually do, it might be worth looking into.
They have had one out for years, BUT it still has some recoil. My wife has a Witness Pavona in 380(compact CZ clone) and it is still snappy.

Ruger does make a SR22 that is compact, but they could go smaller. The CCI mini mag has a good reputation for reliable ignition, and feeding.

The 8 shot 22lr LCR would also be a good option.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
You need a fan behind you to push the smoke away from you. The exhaust fan in the window isn't enough. Probably also a good idea to tent your range in plastic then you'd keep the lead out of the basement if you're going to go high volume in your practice. Just my $0.02 as a rimfire rifle competitive shooter in college.
He could also get a S&W M&P gas blowback airsoft. There is still the green gas used, but it is not going to be a problem with ventilation.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:46 AM
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richardw, I'm going to approach your problem differently from everyone else. Instead of suggesting a change of caliber, I'm going to suggest a change in statins. I am 73, and a year ago, I was in the same situation you are in. I'd developed lots of pain in my shoulders which spread to my wrists and hands. I had to install an Apex kit in my M&P 40 so I could pull the trigger. I could barely lift my range bag. My Harvard med school trained hand doctor said he'd never seen a case like mine, and wasn't sure what was wrong. I didn't fit into any traditional arthritis category.

Subsequently, my primary care physician's nurse practitioner hypothesized I was having a reaction to atorvastatin (generic Lipitor), and told me to stop taking it. I told her I'd been taking 40 mg per day for 15 years without a single side effect. She said give it a try, so I did. I stated feeling better after a week, and after a month, all of my shoulder pain and 90% of my wrist and hand pain were gone. My cardiologist then prescribed a low dose (10 mg) of rosuvastatin (generic Crestor), which has controlled my cholesterol as well as the atorvastatin did, with no side effects.

As a result, I can now shoot what I want. Today, I went to the range and fired 150 rounds of .45, and 100 rounds of .40 with no problems. If your situation is anything like mine, you might want to check your statin to see if it might be the culprit. However, if you are one of the 1% of the people in our age group who is not taking a statin, good for you, and... never mind!
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:07 AM
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A 22Hp is going to make most humans mighty sick and in most
cases all they will want to do is get away. Not much has been
said on 32acp. They have some fancy bullits for them now. There
is some recoil, but very little. The only keeper small pistol I own
is a PP, 32acp. It is heavy by today's standards, but very reliable.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:38 AM
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O.K., my .02. I recommend a Ruger 22/45 Lite and a silencer. Hey, if you have to go the .22 route, why not make it as FUN as possible? Plus it makes firing it much more tolerable indoors. With subsonic ammo, it could be quieter than a pellet gun.

Good on you and keep on shooting!!
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:40 AM
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As long as your comfortable with what you carry than that's all that matters.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:54 AM
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Default .22 LR EDC

I am 70 and starting to experience that same issues. My 642, even with light "plinkers" is gettin painful for my wrists (until recently, I could shoot 100 rounds with no problems). Even my Bodyguard .380, which I really like, hurts. But I love shooting my Ruger MKIII .22. So I've decided to buy a small .22 revolver ( for the ability to pull the trigger on a fresh cylinder if the inevitable "dud" should happen). This is a great thread for us old guys and I'm getting some great suggestions on what to buy . Good luck to you sir. BTW, for those who say the .22 LR is not "enough" gun; there are millions of ghosts throughout the world that have been intentionally dispatch for many decades by "professionals"
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:20 AM
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I'm 65 and heading in your direction... Last year I tore a muscle in my upper right arm and also had rotator surgery at the same time...have lost about 50% of my strength in some directions with the right arm...

Have also been a CC/personal defense instructor since 1991 and have taught many older shooters. Many could handle no more than a .22 accurately and comfortably..

I also spent 30 years in LE and saw .22s kill a lot of people....the last three shootings I worked were all .22s...and everyone not only stopped their criminal activity but also died...

My favorite .22 for personal defense is the Beretta 87 Cheetah. Very smooth DA pull and can also be carried cocked and locked like a 1911. Three of my students carry them...

And forget HP ammo...at 950 fps it isn't going to expand reliably anyway and if it does penetration is going to go down. Instead I use a HV round nose and use one of the Paco Kelly tools that make a nice sharp flat point...have had no feeding issues with the guns I have tried them in.... The CCI Small Game Bullet is close to that design...

Bob
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:35 AM
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Got my wife a Compact several months ago......loves it.

If you are going to carry it I'd stick with CCI vs. the "bulk stuff" someone mentioned....... check out the CCI Velocitor round in your gun....muzzle energy is 183 ft/lb vs 127 for Mini-mags ( assume rifle barrels)

I've got a .32 PPK/s ....... found it used with 4 magazines for <$300....... never shot it......need to dig it out.

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Old 06-01-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray1970 View Post
I did want to toss out the main problem that I would have relying on a 22LR for self defense. My main issue is with ignition reliability in a rim fire cartridge. I'm sure we've all been at the range having fun going through a large box of 22's. Inevitably, a few of those rounds just won't fire- not even after several attempts. I just wouldn't trust that the round I might have to fire to save my life wouldn't be one of those "duds".
I agree.

If I were to carry a .22LR I'd chose a revolver over an autoloader for that reason. Something like the Ruger LCR 8rd .22LR.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
I agree.

If I were to carry a .22LR I'd chose a revolver over an autoloader for that reason. Something like the Ruger LCR 8rd .22LR.
My choice too if he can handle the heavy double action trigger needed for rimfire...... but I thought he had an issue with that?
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:00 AM
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25 years ago I bought a Beretta 21A in .22lr. Then my reasoning
was when I got to the point recoil was a problem I would also
have to deal with reduced pinch strength. Up until that time I had
"ASSumed" I would still be able to rack the slide on my 1911.

With that revelation, I bought the 21A. With the tip up barrel it is
easy to load. Using Aquila 60 grain subsonic ammunition I gain
50% in bullet mass. Also this ammunition has a shortened
case. This aids in ejection which is a good thing since the 21A is a
blowback pistol with no ejector.

I practice with the 21A and am hand size accurate at 10 yards. I
think this pistol would be for me adequate at that range. In reality
it's probably a contact weapon. In that case the extra mass of
the Aquila rounds might help.

I'm still in my 50's( barely ). However practicing the 6P's is
always a good thing now that I can see the decrepitude of aging
creeping in. richardw, you made a good choice not to be a victim.

I hope I have.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:19 AM
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Nothing wrong w/a .22, I saw more people stopped w/these when I was a cop (30 yrs.) than almost anything else. I carry my LCP more than the 340 M&P due to back and hip problems. For me it's all about the weight. Getting old (70) is not for sissies.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
My choice too if he can handle the heavy double action trigger needed for rimfire...... but I thought he had an issue with that?
If he did I missed it.. speed reading ain't easy.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:22 AM
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Take ten 22lr bullets set together and you will see that makes for a really big hole. Besides that the 22lr can enter say the shin and still find its way to the heart. The 22lr can be an amazing cartridge.

As far as a 380 IMO it isn't much less felt recoil than many 9mm. In some really small 380 guns the recoil is worse than many 9mm guns.

A 22lr handgun can be very lethal and even a one shot dropper. Added benefit is a 22lr is so much easier on the ears as well as the wallet. Can cost wise sling a lot more shots with 22lr than any other ammo which makes for a whole lot more affordable practice.

All this 22lr talk has got me thinking to get out today and shoot a brick just to see how well or poorly I can shoot with it.

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Old 06-01-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
shoot the 22 but carry the Lc9s .. by shooting the 22 you will stay proficient but carrying the 9mm you will keep the stopping power you might need ..

Doing this won't hurt your thump by shooting the 22 ..
After my fourth tour in Nam which was ended by my second Purple Heart my Infantry career was ended due to a spinal injury. Upon recover I was reassigned to train Marines post their boot camp training. The Corps wanted and still wants Marines to be highly proficient with their assigned weapons.

There was talk at one point about saving money by substituting smaller caliber training rifles to save on ammo expense. That talk lasted about 48 hours because the trainer cadre went ballistic. Our collective opinion was that it was critical to make shooting your assigned weapon in pursuit of excellence was critical to personal and unit effectiveness.

I am now proficient with my 22 compact, but I continue to train with it. I have shipped my Lc9s to my son in CA because he wanted a house gun. But even if I had it I would train and carry only with the 22. The ergonomic difference between the 22 Compact and the Lc9s is major. The 22 is a pleasure to grip. The Ruger was not.

My experience between tours in Nam when they took away my M14 and gave me an M16 was that I really felt uncomfortable. I suddenly has a rifle that I had practically no training with. It was a very uncomfortable feeling.

So I am an advocate of continuous training with the gun you are going to carry. Better to be highly proficient with one edc gun than to play the field and be moderately proficient with several guns.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
You need a fan behind you to push the smoke away from you. The exhaust fan in the window isn't enough. Probably also a good idea to tent your range in plastic then you'd keep the lead out of the basement if you're going to go high volume in your practice. Just my $0.02 as a rimfire rifle competitive shooter in college.
Great suggestions. Will do.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:18 PM
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Want to thank everyone for their comments in this thread and for the civility that is often absent in other forums. I got some food for thought from some posts. The revolver advocates make good points but I don't like the feel of them in the hand. I love the ergonomics of the 22 Compact. I have put over 1,000 rounds through it in three months using only CCI Mini Mags. No failures to feed, fire, or eject. I love the gun and the ammo.

I did a lot of research into ammo before making a decision to use Mini Mag HP ammo. Initially, I thought CCI Velocitor would be best due to it higher velocity, but after researching ballistic reports I learned that it does not reliably expand when fired from a hand gun because the short barrel does not allow the powder to burn enough to achieve the needed velocity. The Mini Mag has different powder and it does reach near max velocity out of a handgun, and it more reliably expands. If it does not it amounts to shooting RN, and that means a bullet that penetrates and tumbles rather than expands. That wil rip a lot of tissue. Works for me.

Thanks to all again. Semper Fi.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:50 PM
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I read somewhere a long time ago, maybe by Bill Jordan, that more folks
have been killed with a 22 than any other caliber, If you don't count those
killed in wars.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1970 View Post
I would never argue with someone about their choice of caliber and I fully understand that sometimes physical factors can play a major role in things. However, I did want to toss out the main problem that I would have relying on a 22LR for self defense. My main issue is with ignition reliability in a rim fire cartridge. I'm sure we've all been at the range having fun going through a large box of 22's. Inevitably, a few of those rounds just won't fire- not even after several attempts. I just wouldn't trust that the round I might have to fire to save my life wouldn't be one of those "duds".

I will add that if carrying something chambered in 22LR was my only option then I think I would definitely carry a revolver. If that first round doesn't fire, at least a quick second pull of the trigger gets me a fresh round.
Yes, I agree 22LR should be the last choice for EDC, but as you note, in a revolver, you pull the trigger again and get a new Cylinder if it has an issue igniting the Primer.
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:23 PM
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The one time I needed to pull a gun, it was the .22 that I happened to be in my pocket while walking in the woods.. Just showing it was enough to defuse the situation but I was prepared to empty the mag of .22 stingers if needed.
That said, hopefully we both can go the rest of our years without testing the fight stopping power of the .22.
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
I read somewhere a long time ago, maybe by Bill Jordan, that more folks
have been killed with a 22 than any other caliber, If you don't count those
killed in wars.
Apparently it is a fact based upon a study done some years ago. I found the study while researching my choice. Then I found a blog that cited the study's important stats. Anyone who is interested can read the very brief article and see the stats here.
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardw View Post
Apparently it is a fact based upon a study done some years ago. I found the study while researching my choice. Then I found a blog that cited the study's important stats. Anyone who is interested can read the very brief article and see the stats here.
I think those charts show the point I was trying to make, i.e. there is a difference between lethality and stopping power. The bad guy you shoot with your .22 might very well end up beating you to death, but you'll have the satisfaction that he died later.
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:33 PM
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Default Changing my edc gun to 22 LR

I can find no fault in carrying a .22 under some circumstances, such as when maximum conceal-ability is needed, or in the case of injuries or physical limitations that prevent the use of other types of pistols or calibers. I don't have any experience with the M&P 22 Compact, but I would say that if it works well, then have two of them.

I have a soft spot for the Beretta 21A. I have two. One was one from the earliest production, and the other from the late 80s. I put far more rounds through both of them than I think Beretta ever intended. Both are in serious need of an armorer. There were probably over 10k rounds fired between the two, with half being the hyper velocity stuff from Remington and CCI. My favorite carry round was the Remington 40 grain solid point Golden Bullet. It was cheap, reliable, and accurate. I seem to recall that the 21s didn't like the CCIs as much or maybe I didn't see the need to buy anything more expensive than the Golden Bullets.

To carry the 21, get a decent pocket holster. I didn't have one back when I carried the 21s regularly. No incidents or problems, but now recognize the benefit. The 21 works really well in an ankle holster, or in the glove pocket of a leather jacket. Mine spent a fair amount of time in the front pocket of my BDU trousers. Keep the chamber clean. The 21 does not have an extractor. I never found it to be a problem unless extended range time resulted in a lot of carbon and powder grit build-up. A quick run of a chamber brush always took care of the problem. The 21A is accurate enough to ding a pepper popper at 100 yards. I probably had to aim at the "head" portion to get the hit. With a barrel that is about an inch and a half, ballistics are not impressive, but having a pistol that is unquestionably affordable to shoot a lot affords one the opportunity to build the individual skills necessary to hit critical targets multiple times under stress. Carry a couple of spare magazines. My contemporaries back in the 80s and 90s had Walther TPHs, Jennings J22s, and a little Iver Johnson copy of a Walther. The Iver was close in many aspects except for long term longevity (zinc frame), but the Beretta 21A was by far a better pistol than the rest in its category.


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Old 06-01-2017, 03:45 PM
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I carry an SR22 most of the year loaded with Stingers. plus 1 extra mag.

I'm 74 and no physical problems shooting yet.
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:13 PM
Old cop Old cop is online now
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Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread) Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)  
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I attended many autoposies and saw what a .22 does inside a person. That little bullet bounces around and does a lot of damage causing massive internal bleeding.
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