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Old 07-12-2017, 01:49 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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VIDEO: Cop Uses Pistol to Save Partner, End A Gunfight With A Single 75 Foot Shot - Blue Lives Matter
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:58 PM
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75 ft !!!!!! ......... lets at least double that before we even begin to talk "shooting at a distance"

Just my opinion........
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:04 PM
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I have to say, for me anyways, that accuracy at 25 yards is a lot less than at 10 yards. I am by no means a good shooter but still the difference even 15 yards makes is quite noticeable.

I need try shooting from 50 yards and see if I can even hit paper.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:06 PM
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25 yards is a long way in a pistol fight.
Bob
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:34 PM
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We use to (1980s) qualify out to 50 yds.........12 or 18 rds in 90 seconds (?) Two reloads and allowed to shoot single action IIRC....... that video was hardly a "gunfight"....... .just a single aimed shot to protect his partner.

Not something you need to do everyday.... but when you do ...... in all probability you are really going to need to do it............

If I read the article correctly he hit the guy in the middle of the back.......


Edit....... back in the day; one hand bulleyes at 50ft/ 17yds required about a <2" group to be competitive........many matches were shot at 25 and 50yds......... at 5 and 8 inch bulls.

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Old 07-12-2017, 02:49 PM
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When I shoot pistol at 100 yards I'm praised for my accuracy. My response is if I'm that close to target at 100 yards anything less is easy.

Just sayin'
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:03 PM
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25 yards is a long way in a pistol fight.
Bob
This. ^^^ Notice Bob's credentials beside his name. I have a feeling he speaks from experience.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:12 PM
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25 yards is a long way in a pistol fight.
Bob
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This. ^^^ Notice Bob's credentials beside his name. I have a feeling he speaks from experience.
In the private sector it could be considered murder because you could flee instead of engaging.

But it doesn't mean that I don't want that skill level.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:57 PM
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Hickok45 could've taken him out as well, from that distance...and more.

I don't agree with the article that it was a "gun fight". One shot does not a gun fight make.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:32 PM
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Prior to 1996 when we were issued revolvers (4" S&W M 10's and Ruger GP100's) we would qualify out to 25 meters/yards.

Now w Th the G17 we are told the pistol is a 15 m weapon only.

I regularly shoot to 25 meters with my 4" .38 S&W Victory and 50 meters with my 6" 696 AFS.

Even with my 1911's I practice on a 10" steel disc out to 40-45 meters. In my last completion I took 6 rounds with my ammunition in a borrowed gun to hit 3 8" plates at 42 meters.

The secret is to practice at those distances.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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I don't agree with the article that it was a "gun fight". One shot does not a gun fight make.
Exactly. There was no gunfight. Nothing happened here that even resembles a gunfight.

District Attorney Andrew Murray can say whatever he wants. He can rule the shooting justified, and apparently has. But this shooting has been controversial from the minute it happened, and if Murray believes his ruling puts an end to it, he's probably in for a big disappointment.

Five months after this happened, CMPD is still conducting their own internal investigation into this shooting.

Officer Brian Walsh is still on administrative duty. He has not been allowed to return to the streets.

I fully expect the family to file a civil suit against CMPD and Officer Walsh.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:15 PM
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My first thoughts as I watched the video from start to finish were about the dangers our police officers face on a daily basis. My second thought was a flashback to Nam because the heavy breathing of the officers whose cameras were recording was like calling up the experience of close quarter combat for me. I cannot explain or describe it but the vide records it.

As for the 75 foot shot, I certainly was not luck. It was a shot by an officer who knew his weapon and how to use it. In combat 75 yard pistol shots are not uncommon. Good hits are much less common. The officer had a high level of skill obviousl6 through practice.

Finally, I felt a little pang for the officer and his wife. When you shoot someone you pay a personal price and when you tell your wife that you had to shoot someone she pays a personal price. I have nothing but praise for both of them.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:17 PM
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I always practice at the longest range I can shoot. I used to qualify with a revolver beginning at 50 yards, and the dreaded "possible" course began at 60 yards, which usually meant shooting from the parking lot!

When I would qualify agents in Indian Country I would put clay pigeons on the 100 yard berm if there was one, and keep everyone there until they were all busted by pistol fire.

Now that I am a semi-retired gentlemen of leisure I mostly shoot at the local indoor range. Today there was a guy shooting a full sized pistol at six feet. 2 whole yards. He shot a basketball sized group and pronounced it good enough.

I don't know all the details of the above shooting. The shot guy apparently had a rifle with no bolt and was perforated once for his troubles. I'm sure there is more to the story, but it was a pretty decent shot.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:49 PM
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Justified! The only thing IMO he should have changed was cuffing, and stuffing that women. She could have been a threat, and certainly would have caught them by surprise.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:51 PM
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[QUOTE=bigggbbruce;139664462]In the private sector it could be considered murder because you could flee instead of engaging.

RUNNING AWAY doesn't jive with your handle, more like that character in the Soprano's. He successfully defended his partner from what he reasonably felt was life threatening.
Flee and leave your partner with a rifle aimed at him??? I don't think too many people would want you backing them up. (going with the info provided). Point a gun a someone armed, what do you expect??? Suicide by police???

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Old 07-12-2017, 06:03 PM
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[quote=nachogrande;139664629]
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In the private sector it could be considered murder because you could flee instead of engaging.

Flee and leave your partner with a rifle aimed at him??? I don't think too many people would want you backing them up. (going with the info provided). Point a gun a someone armed, what do you expect??? Suicide by police???
I think the point he was making is that private citizens are looked at more closely. The Zimmerman case is a good example, if that had been an OD officer I doubt there would have been charges. Yes there is always a public outcry, but DA's tend to cover for the people they work with.

To be fair though many civilians carry to protect themselves, or their loved ones. They may not have got involved, when Giffords was shot it turned out that a armed citizen was on scene but decided to not get involved. Other times armed citizens have saved police officers lives.

Of course if I am wrong to his intent with his post he can correct me.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:07 PM
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[quote=nachogrande;139664629]
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In the private sector it could be considered murder because you could flee instead of engaging.

Flee and leave your partner with a rifle aimed at him??? I don't think too many people would want you backing them up. (going with the info provided). Point a gun a someone armed, what do you expect??? Suicide by police???
Guess you missed the info provided..
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:14 PM
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LEOs are one thing, but a concealed carrier who shoots someone 75 feet away is probably getting arrested.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:24 PM
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LEOs are one thing, but a concealed carrier who shoots someone 75 feet away is probably getting arrested.
That is not quite true, I do not know the distance of the LAC, that saved the officer in two cases. But they were not charged.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:26 PM
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Who says Glocks aren't accurate

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Old 07-12-2017, 06:30 PM
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I recall when Sgt Adam Johnson (Austin PD) took out a shooter at 104 yds with an M&P 40 while holding his horse's reins. He said he tried to include long range pistol shooting into his practice regimen.

I guess you just never know.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:34 PM
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Good shooting officer. Proof that practice makes perfect.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:34 PM
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Who says Glocks aren't accurate

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They are accurate enough to hit a torso at 25 yards. A 1911 is capable of a torso shot at 100 yards. In fact if I can find the video a man took an antelope with a Taurus revolver at 134 yards with iron sights.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:36 PM
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There is no set of laws written in stone. If a civilian shoots a guy from 75 (or 50 it 25 ft) in the back because the guy is threatening people or stealing a car.... probably not going to end well for the civilian.

A civilian shoots a guy from 75 (or 50 it 25 ft) in the back because the guy has a rifle and is shooting into a crowd! Not going to be a problem

I regularly practice at 25 yards because it the longest distance readily available range. One thing I learned is that I need new prescription glasses

Here's a target. Mine is bottom right, my friend is top left. Both targets shot with Sig 2022 9mm at 25 yards. I practice and can barely see the center at that distance. I just see a black blob. My friend has excellent vision but rarely shoots

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Old 07-12-2017, 06:43 PM
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They are accurate enough to hit a torso at 25 yards. A 1911 is capable of a torso shot at 100 yards. In fact if I can find the video a man took an antelope with a Taurus revolver at 134 yards with iron sights.
I disagree with you

5 shots to the head. One handed. Glock 17. 25 yards


postimage org safe

Strangely my 26 shoots even better.

My 29 kills it at 100 yards. Add the 6" barrel. Even better.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:49 PM
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I disagree with you

5 shots to the head. One handed. Glock 17. 25 yards


postimage org safe

Strangely my 26 shoots even better.

My 29 kills it at 100 yards. Add the 6" barrel. Even better.
Sorry to OP for getting off topic.

What was the distance, standing or using support. Sorry but that is not good enough for me, I shoot for the head, and the shot has to be centered, exact. If I aim for the eye, I expect to take out the eye.

In your head shot only one hit would have been an instant stopper. That is a good pattern for a torso shot though.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:07 PM
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25 yards one handed. Standing. I'm glad you are a ballistics expert based on cardboard. You can argue all you want. I know 20 shooters that can shoot tighter groups than me. I consider myself average. I speak from experience. But you are right I am wrong. So carry on sir.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:21 PM
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25 yards one handed. Standing. I'm glad you are a ballistics expert based on cardboard. You can argue all you want. I know 20 shooters that can shoot tighter groups than me. I consider myself average. I speak from experience. But you are right I am wrong. So carry on sir.
Strike my last remark, we are going way off topic into a clear urinating match. For ME, I, MYSELF Glocks do not have the standard of accuracy I expect, your mileage may vary.

So in respect to the OP you are right...

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Old 07-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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Default MY INFO PROVIDED WAS THE WRITTEN ARTICLE

Guess you missed the info provided..[/QUOTE]

The video wouldn't play on my computer. Cop or not, you have the right to defend another's life & it sounds like that's exactly what the officer did. If new "facts" come to light, I'll gladly change my opinion. A harsh knee jerk reaction to another "trigger happy cop" claim, quite possibly.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:20 PM
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Nice shot for sure but did they let the mailman drop off his mail before they knocked?
I always do some long shots whenever I shoot.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
I always practice at the longest range I can shoot.

When I would qualify agents in Indian Country I would put clay pigeons on the 100 yard berm if there was one, and keep everyone there until they were all busted by pistol fire.

Now that I am a semi-retired gentlemen of leisure I mostly shoot at the local indoor range. Today there was a guy shooting a full sized pistol at six feet. 2 whole yards. He shot a basketball sized group and pronounced it good enough.
At the range I belong to we have a local business man that will shoot at about the same distance of 2 to 3 yards. He will shoot 5 15rnd mags load them back up and do it again. All again into a basket ball sized group. He seems to to be quite happy with the results.

I like to shoot at the broken pieces of clay pigeons on the 25 and 50 yard berms with my 4" 22lr pistol. I had a guy ask me what I was shooting at. He had his target set up at 15 yards shooting a 22 bolt rifle. He didn't understand why I would shoot a pistol at something that far away. Well duh... it's a challenge and the fun factor is wild.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:20 PM
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In the private sector it could be considered murder because you could flee instead of engaging.
Why? Is 25 yards too far for a knife-wielding attacker to run me down and cut my head off? Is it too far for an unlucky hit from a murderous gunman?

25 yards only sounds far away. In reality, that distance can be covered in seconds. If it takes longer than that to secure escape--yes, I'm better off using deadly force, and I can clearly articulate why applying that force at 25 yards is a more sound, reasonable, and justifiable decision than turning my back on an imminent threat.

Watch the video and see how "far" that shot really is. People routinely underestimate distances outdoors.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:40 PM
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I shoot everything out past 25 yards including my j frames up to 586 and semi from 43 to 19. If I can hit at 25 I have more confidence when it comes to 5
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:41 PM
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75 feet sounds far but isn't. Mainly it's the confidence of the shooter. There's really no difference in bullet drop from 15 to 35 yards. Suck it up and squeeze carefully buttercup. 104 yards is something to talk about. 70 yards is something to talk about. With an M&P9 I can hit the torso out to 80 yards. On demand shots at 25 yards or the more spectacular sounding 75 feet are doable and lacking accolades. Unless you're from Dundalk and then it's a holy miracle of magazine fed goodness.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:49 PM
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When I shoot pistol at 100 yards I'm praised for my accuracy. My response is if I'm that close to target at 100 yards anything less is easy.

Just sayin'
How much time?
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Old 07-13-2017, 08:02 AM
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75 feet sounds far but isn't. Mainly it's the confidence of the shooter. There's really no difference in bullet drop from 15 to 35 yards. Suck it up and squeeze carefully buttercup. 104 yards is something to talk about. 70 yards is something to talk about. With an M&P9 I can hit the torso out to 80 yards. On demand shots at 25 yards or the more spectacular sounding 75 feet are doable and lacking accolades. Unless you're from Dundalk and then it's a holy miracle of magazine fed goodness.
Is that before or after you sprint to your car and have adrenaline pumping?

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Old 07-13-2017, 09:14 AM
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A 1 shot hit on a man holding a weapon pointed at someone else is a far cry from me hitting a paper target at 25 yards . I have witnessed many guys hit paper all day long at the range then miss a deer or turkey in the field heck done it myself especially with a handgun .I guess we who carry firearms whether police or private citizens have the responsibility to know how to safely handle that weapon and be realistic in our own abilities with it .I think the realistic part is where most of us fall short .
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:48 AM
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This thread is taking a nasty turn......my only point was that for most/many/ some shooters 75ft/25yds is not considered "long range shooting" with a handgun.

As I said I use to qualify out to 50........then LOL they dropped it to 25....
when I was growing up, I don't recall shooting any gun at less than 50ft/17yds.............. until I got into USPSA and IDPA.

I've hunted deer with a 6", .357 magnum 686.... I limited myself to 50 yds with that round...... took 2 deer in 3 years..... at 40-50 yds......

When I'm at the club I see lots of folks shooting at less than 10 yds.......even with rifles........ there are all different skill levels. Doesn't make any of them right or wrong......they just are what they are!


Would I like to take that shot in the video after sprinting 50-100yds ? NO! ........ but if someone was going to shoot a family member or my partner with a rifle...... would I try....ya given a "safe" background........ two handed and braced if possible. Would I prefer a rifle for shots over 25 yds Ya!........

IMHO the original news story makes it out that this was a "miracle" shot.... to me it demonstrated how little the press knows about guns and shooting. ranking up there with calling suppressors........... silencers.

Me I'm just glad both officers walked away.....................
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:49 AM
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The LEO made a fine shot at 75 feet under pressure is a lot
different than shooting targets. I don't bother to read articles on
Combat style shooting. Most of my shooting is done in relation
to hunting. Pure hand gunning, iron sights. The deer class guns
we shot to 100yds X 10". The 22s, 32s, and 38s we used for
small game we had at 40yds. We got a lot of practice shooting
Varmits at random distances.

I'm just now going back into Bullseye, which was boring to me
when I was young. I don't worry about hitting the target at SD
distances and don't worry about fast draw, fancy bullets,ect.
There is not going to be many Western Style gunfights. The
biggest part of it for most people is the will to kill.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by OIF2 View Post
25 yards is a long way in a pistol fight.
Bob
And that's a born again, card carrying fact. Plus, most are over before you even have time to sight in a further distance.

Bob
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:12 AM
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This thread is taking a nasty turn...
No big surprise there.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:27 AM
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The officer did just what he was taught - He and his partner got to go home at the end of the shift!

That shot is OK, not great, not spectacular - The Austin PD mounted officer gets that award.

Shooting that man with a rifle is exactly what needed to happen, and all of the hand wringers that are crying because the rifle had no bolt would have a huge change of heart if THEY were facing that man's muzzle instead of the officers.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:46 AM
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It's easy to armchair quarterback this one - watching a video at you desk then thinking what would I do.

Only glitch I see is turning your back and running for your car when you had cover offered by the corner of the house.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:10 PM
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Default NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THE ZIM CASE.

I think the point he was making is that private citizens are looked at more closely. The Zimmerman case is a good example, if that had been an OD officer I doubt there would have been charges. Yes there is always a public outcry, but DA's tend to cover for the people they work with.

Wrong in so many ways: 1 Zim was not a LEO, on duty or off.
2: Zim followed the guy, after receiving instructions not to.
3: in a high profile case that you know is gonna be closely scrutinized, I don't think any DA in his right mind would cover/cover up anything butt his own.
4: it might be argued that once Zim followed, he became the aggressor.
5: However he reached the point where his head was being beaten to mush on the sidewalk, at that point his life was at risk & shooting was justified. (IMO) Up to that point???
Totally different cases. The deceased pursued officers with a rifle. More chlorine for the gene pool.

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Old 07-13-2017, 12:56 PM
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It's easy to armchair quarterback this one - watching a video at you desk then thinking what would I do.

Only glitch I see is turning your back and running for your car when you had cover offered by the corner of the house.
He might have been worried about his partner in the line of fire at that position. The only problem I saw was letting the woman continue to interfere. Who knows if she was armed also.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:14 PM
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Armchair quarterbacking here ...

What if the officer missed the target and the bullet hit someone in the house (or front yard) next door? They could have easily talked him into giving up. There were two officers on different sides of the bad guy. The officer shot while he was under cover behind his squad car. In fact, all he did was get behind his car, turned toward the bad guy, and immediately shot him. It didn't seem like he looked around to access what, exactly, was happening, nor to communicate with his partner.

For an opposing view, the office ran like hell toward his squad car, got behind it, and immediately shot the bad guy. For all he knows, he could have thought his partner had been attacked (shot, stabbed, etc), so he probably thought that was enough to simply turn and shoot.

It could go either way in a civil case.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:28 PM
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Armchair quarterbacking here ...

What if the officer missed the target and the bullet hit someone in the house (or front yard) next door? They could have easily talked him into giving up. There were two officers on different sides of the bad guy. The officer shot while he was under cover behind his squad car. In fact, all he did was get behind his car, turned toward the bad guy, and immediately shot him. It didn't seem like he looked around to access what, exactly, was happening, nor to communicate with his partner.

For an opposing view, the office ran like hell toward his squad car, got behind it, and immediately shot the bad guy. For all he knows, he could have thought his partner had been attacked (shot, stabbed, etc), so he probably thought that was enough to simply turn and shoot.

It could go either way in a civil case.
IMO even if an officer gets it perfectly right there will be a settlement. It is just how it is.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:35 PM
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Default THE DR PHIL APPROACH???

"They could have EASILY talked the guy into giving up". ANY proof of that, ANY AT ALL? Would you bet YOUR life a guy pointing a rifle, at a uniformed cop no less, is gonna give it up? I wouldn't wanna explain to his widow, I thought I could talk him down. If the guy had a history of mental illness, why was there a gun he had access to? One of those cheapo cable padlocks EVERY gun comes with now & we all likely have, MAY have prevented this whole thing. OH that's right, it's NOT MY PROBLEM/NOT MY RESPONSABILITY/INVADES MY FREEDOMS/I DON'T CARE. ME ME ME, I,I, I.,MY, MY, MY. Here I am & here is the universe revolving around ME.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:48 PM
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"They could have EASILY talked the guy into giving up". ANY proof of that ... I wouldn't wanna explain to his widow...
LOL! I really should have said, "they could have easily tried talking to this guy". Not that it would have worked, but the officer was relatively safe behind his vehicle at the moment he shot, IMO.

At any rate, yeah, that's why I gave a couple of opposing viewpoints. Like I said, (besides I'm armchair quarterbacking) it could go either way in a civil courtroom (or could be settled). It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:29 PM
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How much time?
Rapid fire Weaver stance. Time between shot varies for different target sizes I'm shooting at. I practice to shoot as quickly as possible, no yawns between shots. My goal is for ready defense not pin point accuracy just good hits in a human sized target.

The 3" clays take more time.
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