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  #51  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:41 AM
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What reason could there possibly be to open the door to a stranger? Don't even bother speaking through the door. Nothing legitimate is sold door to door these days. We just look out a discreet window, ignore the people, and stand ready to defend in case in of invasion.
I open the door for kids in uniform. I'm a sucker for the scouts, cheerleaders, football player, band members, etc.
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:45 AM
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I got tired of typing this out so I just cut and paste it now


Massad Ayoob "Don't Answer The Door!!!" - YouTube

I’ve seen this discussed on other forums and it seems to cause a lot of debate when it comes up.

I found this video by Massad Ayoob on youtube in which he explains how he deals with a stranger at his door and there’s not much I can add to it except maybe my personal experience.

I am convinced that I stopped an attempted robbery at the front door of my home several years ago by simply not opening the door.

A stranger showed up at my door around 9 pm saying that he wanted to give me a free Denver Post. This was back when I owned a home and I looked through the front window and he had no newspaper in his hands.

He spent 10 minutes trying to get me to open that door; nothing else was going to do. I finally ended the conversation by telling him I was calling the police. I am aware that there are any number of things I could have done better but it was almost 10 years ago and I’ve learned some since then.

I believe it’s prudent not to open the door to a stranger if for no other reason than I don’t want to hear a pitch for meat or a vacuum cleaner or encyclopedias or magazines or an invitation to your church. By not opening the door for anyone I don’t know I automatically am never faced with a situation where I open the door to a criminal.

If it is a criminal I want every advantage I can have. Why put myself in a position where I have to fight them at the door when I can just not open the door and avoid the fight altogether.
Gees, can't Ayoob afford a better rug? It looks like he has a dead rat on his head!
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:07 AM
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I do things a little different because of my profession. Someone is simply not getting into my house unless they drive through the front door. So I don't feel the need to be armed around the house although there are guns close by.

I highly recommend a good secure security screen door with a deadbolt. I can open my door and see and hear who I'm talking to and not put myself in danger.

If we are outside and the possibility exists that we could be approached or followed inside, then I put a gun in my pocket.

Thankfully we get very few visitors.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:48 AM
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Gees, can't Ayoob afford a better rug? It looks like he has a dead rat on his head!
You are a bad, bad man. But my lord I nearly busted a gut.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:31 AM
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Always armed when responding to doorbell/knocking.. never open front door to stranger after view from adjoining window.. Then either ignore or
exit house through garage side door and approach stranger(s) from behind.. Kahr pm9 always in front right pocket with hand on firearm..
Never allow stranger to close within 6 feet of me when thy approach, sometimes extending their hand.. Oh, and have no solicitor sign on front door
  #56  
Old 07-22-2017, 12:19 PM
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Nothing legitimate is sold door to door these days.
Schwann's
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:23 PM
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My doorbell is broken. I've been in no hurry to repair it. Friends/invitees know that and knock. Others stand there a while pushing the button then go away. If they are insistent and switch to knocking, the door is answered with handgun in pocket, semi-domesticated dog acting crazy and scowl.
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:30 PM
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We live in the AZ outback. Some time back 3 of our neighbors were murdered. One of the ladies was a member of my wife's woman's club.
I've got pistols stashed all over. :-)
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  #59  
Old 07-22-2017, 12:54 PM
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Then either ignore or exit house through garage side door and approach stranger(s) from behind..
Really bad idea. First you're essentially looking for the fight. Second you've given up the protection of your home to go out and meet the enemy on their terms.

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Oh, and have no solicitor sign on front door
When I was on terminal leave I spent 2 weeks working for one of those shady companies that sells meat off a truck.

Rule number one was ignore those signs. I worked with one guy who made a point of knocking on doors with those signs. He said the only people who put them up were weak people who couldn't say "No."
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Old 07-22-2017, 01:41 PM
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Schwann's
And Boy Scouts popcorn sales!
  #61  
Old 07-22-2017, 02:04 PM
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When my door bell rings or a knock on the door I have my gun in hand and go to the flanking window to see who it is or ask what they want.

A peep hole can get an icepick in your eye or a bullet through the door into you. I know that could be getting a little overboard but don't put anything past a stranger at your door.

People that know me say they will blow their horn in my driveway before getting out of their car at my house. Most often people coming to see me that I expect but don't know will call me from the end of my road or driveway. The UPS man said jokingly he wouldn't want to come to my house after dark. We both laughed at that.

One time at 2a.m. my doorbell rang. My dogs went nuts and I grabbed my gun. I went to the side flanking window and yelled who is there and I couldn't see anyone or a any car in the driveway. Evidently the rain caused the doorbell button to short out. I don't get visitors at 2 am so you can understand my caution. No I am not about to fling open the door to see who it is. That's about stupid.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:30 PM
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Don't put too much faith in living in a good neighborhood to be safe. Dirt bags usually look into a good area where the chances of finding something of value to take and sell are good. Also, educate your children about the need to not let anyone into the house without your permission. It is to your advantage to be cautious which is one step lower than paranoid.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:43 PM
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Rule number one was ignore those signs. I worked with one guy who made a point of knocking on doors with those signs. He said the only people who put them up were weak people who couldn't say "No."
Depending on where you live, the "no soliciting" signs have the force of the law; they do where I live. If you ring the doorbell at my house and try to sell me something, I could have you arrested for trespassing. The local police actually encourage us to turn in violators. I have seen several people approach my door, see the sign, turn, and leave. I only had one instance where someone range the door bell, then noticed the sign. I opened the door as they were apologetically walking away. And your boss was wrong - I have no problem telling them "No" and to get off my property!

Last edited by 427mach1; 07-22-2017 at 02:44 PM.
  #64  
Old 07-22-2017, 03:32 PM
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Depending on where you live, the "no soliciting" signs have the force of the law; they do where I live. If you ring the doorbell at my house and try to sell me something, I could have you arrested for trespassing. The local police actually encourage us to turn in violators. I have seen several people approach my door, see the sign, turn, and leave. I only had one instance where someone range the door bell, then noticed the sign. I opened the door as they were apologetically walking away. And your boss was wrong - I have no problem telling them "No" and to get off my property!
Well, you could have me cited for tresspass. Assuming I stuck around long enough for the cops to get there.

I only did that job for 2 weeks because I figured out there was no honest way to make a living doing it.

That said, I don't care if you tell me to leave, I'll leave. If you start griping at me I'll actually say "So what, who cares, who's next" (Amway motto.) while I'm walking away.

What I won't do is stand there while you lecture me and neither will most of the folks that knock on doors for a living. They'll either cuss you out while they're walking away or you'll escalate matters to a confrontation you could have avoided.
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  #65  
Old 07-22-2017, 03:58 PM
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I live in an old two story brick farmhouse in the country. The house is situated about 75 yards off the road. My night time routine for whenever I get a knock at the door, I usually head to one of the windows upstairs, open it, and holler down to whoever is there. The person is usually startled wondering where the voice is coming from. If the enterprising person finds his way to the side door (away from my window perch upstairs), I wait till they get tired waiting for a response and they head to the front door below me. I don't get many unsolicited visitors but this routine works for me and allows me time and distance to safely size up the situation.
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  #66  
Old 07-22-2017, 04:57 PM
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I understand why we are discussing this, but the number of random knocks at a door by persons unknown to the occupants who have a nefarious intent is similar to the number of little leaguers in your town who will one day play in the World Series. Of course, there are many psycho little league and high school baseball parents who believe otherwise . . .

Added: My count for both remains at zero . . .
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Old 07-22-2017, 05:03 PM
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Good analogy Muss.

I'm still trying to calculate the odds of having my eye put out by an ice pick.
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Old 07-22-2017, 05:29 PM
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Odds may be low, for sure, but dang that would hurt!
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Old 07-22-2017, 05:34 PM
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As above, security camera and monitor. Dirt cheap these days.

Barking alarm dogs are an added bonus.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:43 PM
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In a cell phone world, if'n you are coming to my door you already have the number. Call it and you stand a better chance of entry. Joe
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:14 PM
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I understand why we are discussing this, but the number of random knocks at a door by persons unknown to the occupants who have a nefarious intent is similar to the number of little leaguers in your town who will one day play in the World Series. Of course, there are many psycho little league and high school baseball parents who believe otherwise . . .

Added: My count for both remains at zero . . .
I agree the odds are low but being cautious doesn't add a huge burden to my life. I'm typing this at my kitchen table. Three steps from the front door. If someone knocked right now I wouldn't even get up. I'd simply ask "Who is it?"

If I know the person I let them in, if I don't I tell them to go away.

How hard is that?
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:40 PM
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Having the on switch for the sprinklers near the front door, good entertainment.
Bring on the Jehova's Witnesses...LOL
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  #73  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:43 PM
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In the "good ole days" our doors were never locked and if there was a knock on the door it was always "it's open, come on in". Not that way any more.

Does anyone here have a Ring doorbell? I am seriously thinking of getting one now that I have joined the Smartphone crowd. The reviews seem pretty good and it would be nice to see who's at the door without having to leave my recliner!
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:10 PM
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I agree the odds are low but being cautious doesn't add a huge burden to my life. I'm typing this at my kitchen table. Three steps from the front door. If someone knocked right now I wouldn't even get up. I'd simply ask "Who is it?"

If I know the person I let them in, if I don't I tell them to go away.

How hard is that?
I agree. At the moment, I'm typing in my living room. The front door is standing open and the storm door isn't locked. The garage door is up, and the door from there to the service porch isn't locked. The sliding door leading to the back porch is unlocked, and the gate for the privacy fence is held open. My brother-in-law walked in the back way unannounced a couple hours ago, and didn't get shot.

How hard is that?

It's the difference between living in constant fear and just living . . .
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:49 PM
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If they make it past the landmines, they're welcome to ring my door bell.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:05 PM
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I'm still trying to calculate the odds of having my eye put out by an ice pick.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:47 PM
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It's the difference between living in constant fear and just living . . .
Would I be correct, based on this statement, that you have the same
attitude regarding those of us who carry a handgun regularly? Do you think
we are living "in constant fear?" After all, the odds of having to actually
use our weapon are pretty low.

Do you have a spare tire in your daily driver?
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:28 PM
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Never stand behind the door when someone knocks or rings the doorbell. Never, never, never.

Doesn't matter if you have a pistol in your hand or not.
You can be easily bowled over as well as being shot through the door.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:29 PM
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Odds may be low, for sure, but dang that would hurt!
This gives a new definition to "you'll put your eye out!" I have learned a lot from this forum, but this is one "lesson" I wish I could unlearn! I will never look through or at a door peep hole the same.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:31 PM
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The person that said that either has no idea how thick that glass is or believes a peep hole is a hole open to the elements in a door. Either way I'm impressed with their intelligence.
The bullet through the peep hole is also rich.

I answer the door naked with a Scottish Claymore in hand. I charge onto the porch and shout "I dooon't get drrrressed up for nothing!" I now have three free briefcases and two new girlfriends.
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Old 07-23-2017, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I understand why we are discussing this, but the number of random knocks at a door by persons unknown to the occupants who have a nefarious intent is similar to the number of little leaguers in your town who will one day play in the World Series. Of course, there are many psycho little league and high school baseball parents who believe otherwise . . .

Added: My count for both remains at zero . . .
Depends where you live. Super-rural, probly pretty low. Suburbs and denser? Higher than you'd think.

Not everyone nefarious is going to do something right then. Most of the time, they're using the door-knock to case prospective targets. They want to know who's home, how many people, what the response is like, good stuff visible, etc.

Hitting the house right then makes no sense, because if somebody's home, they'll have been seen. But casing that way goes pretty much unnoticed.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:20 AM
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My elderly Mom has owned a florist almost as long she's owned me.
Myself having idle hands at the time, was asked to do her flower delivery(Moms know idle hands/potential trouble).
So yes, I have a legit reason to be at your door.
1: if she is concerned, don't answer the door I'll leave the flowers on the porch.
2: If you turn the sprinklers on, that's funny. We'll laugh together. (Flowers like water)
3: If you answer the door armed,that's good, we're both armed.(double the fun)
4: If you turn the dogs out, (not funny)
Then you get to see me run, hide or fight.
5: If you see a creepy looking stranger slowly cruising your hood, feel free to stop me. Maybe you can help find the unmarked address.
6: If you're held up behind the slow moving delivery van that's looking for an unknown address, I'm not amused when you recklessly pass honking and finger flipping.
7: Even though your lady didn't personally order the flowers, the driver found your house,fought the bees, ran thru the sprinklers,growled back at the dogs, stood in the weather while you looked thru the peephole/window and in a timely manner delivered your flowers in good shape.
PLEASE... Give him a small gratuity tip, l promise he doesn't make a lot of money and may have a gun addiction to support!
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:44 AM
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One of my friends recently bought a little door bell, button assembly off the internet and asked me to install it. You just remove the existing doorbell button and attach two wires to the new one and screw it to the house, it took about five minutes to install. The new doorbell has a fish eye camera in it that syncs to your cell phone and any time someone pushes the doorbell it calls your phone and puts them on video whether you are home or away. She said it cost around $150 and so far works great and it's really interesting to see who all comes to your front door when you're not home. I believe you can also save the video on your phone to use as later proof if needed for the police.

Last edited by Farmer17; 07-23-2017 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Really bad idea. First you're essentially looking for the fight. Second you've given up the protection of your home to go out and meet the enemy on their terms.

To begin with I take exception to your remarks.. I posted what I do, not what I recommend.. for you to suggest I am looking for a fight may apply to someone with your level of experience and
Expertise.

However, a 40 yr. career law enforcement law enforcement officer who rose from patrolman to police chief
with more than 2000 felony arrests and now active LE Management Consultant with 50yrs combined experience,
It doesn't go for me..



When I was on terminal leave I spent 2 weeks working for one of those shady companies that sells meat off a truck.

Rule number one was ignore those signs. I worked with one guy who made a point of knocking on doors with those signs. He said the only people who put them up were weak people who couldn't say "No."
Now you suggest anyone who has a no solicitor sign is weak,
Based on your experience selling meat! Perhaps you resent
Police officers and Vietnam Nam (1st Air Cav) combat Veterans
Who are now Disabled Veterans as a a result of their service,
Like yours truly..
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by redlevel View Post
Would I be correct, based on this statement, that you have the same
attitude regarding those of us who carry a handgun regularly? Do you think
we are living "in constant fear?" After all, the odds of having to actually
use our weapon are pretty low.

Do you have a spare tire in your daily driver?
I carry a gun probably more than most of the forum members. I mow the grass with a gun in my pocket. My attitude is that I'm not gonna hide from the world behind locked doors, surveillance cameras, dogs, moats, razor wire, etc. That's living in fear . . .
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I understand why we are discussing this, but the number of random knocks at a door by persons unknown to the occupants who have a nefarious intent is similar to the number of little leaguers in your town who will one day play in the World Series. Of course, there are many psycho little league and high school baseball parents who believe otherwise . . .

Added: My count for both remains at zero . . .
The odds of having an armed robbery getaway car parked in front of my house (I live in a very nice neighborhood) is extremely low. But, It happened! The more elderly I get, the more of a target I, my wife, and my home make. I don't believe in gambling, especially when it comes to me and mine.

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Old 07-23-2017, 10:22 AM
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Friends, neighbors, UPS and FedEx drivers, Girls Scouts and middle school kids selling cookies and candies and discount booklets, preacher... these are the doorbell ringers around here. When I hear the doorbell I don't launch into DEFCON 1. Never had anyone come around at 2AM like in the video but I think the approach in the video would be the right way to handle it.

As far as carrying all the time... I do. The closest I ever got to using my carry gun was on a dog at the park. Never had a dog ring the doorbell.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:57 PM
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if there are unknowns at the door....i DO NOT open the door....but i do have a S&W revolver in my left hand and a phone, with police speed dial, in my right.....
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:56 PM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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Quote:
When I hear the doorbell I don't launch into DEFCON 1.
Well said sir! And, no intention on my part to criticize other posters about having something in a pocket when they answer the doorbell. I still think the potential for danger is still largely location dependent - although there will always be exceptions to the rule. And, if a miscreant is planning to engage you thru the door anyway - then the wisdom I have been able to glean from this thread is ... just don't open the door if something isn't right ...

Edited to add: One benefit of this thread - I just ordered a Ring doorbell. The reviews on Amazon were pretty positive, and it'll be nice to have video access to the front door. We prolly average one ring per week but a new gadget in the house (well, on the house) is always good ...

Edited again: Rubber Ramada - too funny!!

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Old 07-23-2017, 03:37 PM
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared to any eventuality. We all know that and make those preparations according to our own feelings and views of how the world is today. I'm no different.

I think there's a point where common sense and practicality regarding home defense/self defense cross over into false bravado, paranoia, and outright fear. I think some people have gone past that point.

Hope I never reach the point where I'm too scared to open my front door just because a stranger's there. And if I ever start yelling at folks through a locked door, or start sneaking out the side door with a gun so I can come up from behind on someone at the door, that's the day some folks will come haul me off to the Rubber Ramada and hook me up to the jumper cables or something.

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Old 07-23-2017, 04:03 PM
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My general rule of thumb is to never answer the door. Anyone who's coming over knows who I am, and will text me when they are here. I'll open it for you when I see you are there.
If I don't know you, I'm not answering the door; I'm not talking to you thru the door, or even letting you know I'm home. I don't want to buy anything, and there's nothing in my little apartment worth dying for.

I don't order delivery foods either! So if any of you send me a pizza or some Chineese food, let me know ahead of time!
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Old 07-23-2017, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyt1953 View Post
I have a peep hole, an LCP in my pocket and enough cats to give any unwelcomed guest a severe case of static cling.
Keep in mind there could be a 12 gauge breaching choke pressed under that peephole with someone waiting for it to darken.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:08 PM
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Keep in mind there could be a 12 gauge breaching choke pressed under that peephole with someone waiting for it to darken.
Yeah, or a quarter-pound of C4 with a remote detonator.

Or a couple of big guys with a battering ram, maybe Vikings wearing horned helmets and stuff. Or who knows what all.

Best bet is to just stay away from the door.

To be really safe, though, why not just brick up the front entrance. Really. I mean, who still uses the front door to enter their home? They're mostly for show, anyway.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:34 PM
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Keep in mind there could be a 12 gauge breaching choke pressed under that peephole with someone waiting for it to darken.
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:53 PM
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We had 4 1/2 acres 2 miles outside of a small town. Beside the house there was a 80X32 foot pole building with my office and warehouse. People would pull into yard follow the drive and go to the house, my advantage as I left the building I was behind. Most were trying to preach religion but did have 2 young men come into drive very fast and one went to rear door other started around the house.
I challenged them by yelling HALT, with a full size Ruger 1911 45 ACP
behind my back.
They started yammering about being under contract to County assessor. They walked toward me slowly and showed me hang tags with their ID. I ordered them off the property and called he sheriff and advised him. He was unaware that the assessor was doing this and when she called he chewed her pretty good.
The 2 returned and completed their task and the assessor out and announcement on local radio station.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:34 PM
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I agree. At the moment, I'm typing in my living room. The front door is standing open and the storm door isn't locked. The garage door is up, and the door from there to the service porch isn't locked. The sliding door leading to the back porch is unlocked, and the gate for the privacy fence is held open. My brother-in-law walked in the back way unannounced a couple hours ago, and didn't get shot.

How hard is that?

It's the difference between living in constant fear and just living . . .

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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I carry a gun probably more than most of the forum members. I mow the grass with a gun in my pocket. My attitude is that I'm not gonna hide from the world behind locked doors, surveillance cameras, dogs, moats, razor wire, etc. That's living in fear . . .
You're trying to conflate the mere act of locking a door with living in fear behind razor wire and moats (I also have dogs but no one is hiding behind them)

Do you remember the guy who used to post here about the dirty, drunk, filthy, vagrant who walked right past the no trespassing sign and through his front door? Do you remember telling the guy that he needed to lock his door? What's the difference?

I lock my front door and I don't answer it for random people I don't know. I don't see that as "living in fear?" When people knock on my door I don't get fearful I get annoyed because I don't want to be bothered.

In 51 years I've only had the one time that someone who I really believe had malicious intent knocked on my door and that one time made all my efforts worthwhile.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:43 PM
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Now you suggest anyone who has a no solicitor sign is weak,
Based on your experience selling meat! Perhaps you resent
Police officers and Vietnam Nam (1st Air Cav) combat Veterans
Who are now Disabled Veterans as a a result of their service,
Like yours truly..
I suggested no such thing I explicitly stated that I was told to ignore those signs and that the guy I worked with said only weak people used them.

I have no problem with cops or Vietnam vets I do however have issues with people who can't be bothered to actually read what was written

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavnamvet View Post
To begin with I take exception to your remarks.. I posted what I do, not what I recommend.. for you to suggest I am looking for a fight may apply to someone with your level of experience and
Expertise.

However, a 40 yr. career law enforcement law enforcement officer who rose from patrolman to police chief
with more than 2000 felony arrests and now active LE Management Consultant with 50yrs combined experience,
It doesn't go for me..
Do you want to go ahead and lay them in the dirt and measure them?
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Last edited by Smoke; 07-23-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:06 PM
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What reason could there possibly be to open the door to a stranger?
To find out who they are and what they want?
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
A couple of folks wrote responses that make me think that they have their doors unlocked. Shameful. Doors should only be unlocked when passing through them. Heck, mine is locked behind me when I am taking out the trash. For those of you who say "we don't have a problem" - that will be true, until it isn't. I'm just over 100 miles from Seattle, and there have been Seattle based criminals arrested here for burglaries and the like.
I lock my door when I go check the mail or bring the trash cans back. Who knows, some criminals wait for such moments and sneak into the house or stop you from closing the door when you go back in. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 07-23-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
You're trying to conflate the mere act of locking a door with living in fear behind razor wire and moats (I also have dogs but no one is hiding behind them)

Do you remember the guy who used to post here about the dirty, drunk, filthy, vagrant who walked right past the no trespassing sign and through his front door? Do you remember telling the guy that he needed to lock his door? What's the difference?

I lock my front door and I don't answer it for random people I don't know. I don't see that as "living in fear?" When people knock on my door I don't get fearful I get annoyed because I don't want to be bothered.

In 51 years I've only had the one time that someone who I really believe had malicious intent knocked on my door and that one time made all my efforts worthwhile.
All I'm saying, which you have confirmed for me, is that nearly all of the knocks at the door are innocent. If you are prepared appropriately, you don't have to act like every knock is the zombie apocalypse . . .
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