S&W 642/442.

Based on what you've written, it sounds as if your wife is not a gun enthusiast and most likely never will be. That means she won't receive much training nor practice much. A DAO revolver generally makes the most sense in such cases IMO. And remember that gun forum members are often relatively serious hobbyists and their perspective will usually reflect it. Picking out a gun suitable for personal defense is not the same as choosing an outfit since it could be a matter of life and death. An individual with very limited training, experience or knowledge is not really capable of making an informed decision fully on their own. They need guidance and input. As such, I do think it prudent for your wife to try out some different guns at the range, but more importantly have the various pros/cons explained by someone who understands them in context.

Context is absolutely crucial. Just because a gun is pleasant to shoot and accurate at the range doesn't mean it's the best choice for an EDC since range shooting and armed civilian self-defense have very little in common.

Here's a good article from Massad Ayoob titled "The real ladies handgun"...

For too long, women were told that if they wanted to carry a sidearm they needed a "ladies' gun," usually a tiny .22 or .25 automatic with so little power it might or might not stop a charging gerbil. Then the trend moved toward the small .38 Special revolver. The snubnose .38 became a classic "ladies' gun" for modern times.


Smith & Wesson's first "LadySmith" since the 19th century became a roaring success in the 20th centurybased on the Chief Special, 2-inch barrel, five-shot, .32-frame revolver. There would be other LadySmiths, including the neat little 3913 LS compact 9mm autopistol.

But Smith & Wesson has sold far more short barreled .38 Specials in conventional Chief Special, hammershrouded Bodyguard, and "hammerless" Centennial configurations than anything of the other models to which they gave the feminine appellation. When Colt made a "ladies' model," they built it on the small D-frame revolver, with a 2-inch barrel, in caliber .38 Special.


Those of us who shoot a lot--competitors, firearms instructors, "serious students of the combat handgun"--can't help but notice that with the hottest loads, the small .38 has a nasty recoil and is hard to shoot accurately at significant distances. There are those who have said that because of these factors, the snubnose .38 is a bad choice for women.
I beg to disagree. And so do a huge number of that legion of the fairer sex who choose to go armed, and who seem to have taken the snubnose .38 as their collective handgun of choice.


Voting With Their Feet


"Shall issue" concealed carry legislation has swept the country. It is the strongest wave of victory in the gunowners' civil rights movement. It amazes the opponents of gun owners' rights how many of the people applying for concealed carry permits are women. And the instructors who train and certify those women for those concealed carry permits are telling us a huge number of those ladies are shooting their qualifications with the guns they, intend to carry: short barrel, small frame .38 Special revolvers.


The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need.


They appreciate that they can shoot pistols like the Browning Hi-Power and the 1911 .45 and the Glock and the S&W 3913 better than most men realize. They also realize that they can carry a short, light revolver a helluva lot more easily within their daily wardrobe and dress code restrictions than they can even a compact alloy-frame .45 automatic.


Tactical Points


Gun dealers tell me the single most popular carry gun they're selling to women is the lightweight .38 Special, 2-inch revolver with snag-free configuration, such as the S&W Centennial Airweight. Yes, it kicks enough to hurt your hand. Yes, it will be one of the toughest guns for you to "qualify" with on the 15 to 25 yard line of a police-style shooting course.


However, the women who buy them for daily carry have no illusions about being involved in across-the-street shootouts. They're worried about the mugger who is within arm's length or maybe even closer when they have to defend their lives.


Women get tired of carrying big guns. The woman with whom I spent 30 years of marriage could count on her annual or biannual gift of what her husband thought was a cool self-defense pistol. She wound up with enough high speed, low drag, often highly customized semiautomatic pistols to outfit a small police department. The HK P7, a Behlert Mini-Custom S&W Model 39, a Trapper custom "bobcatted" Colt .45 auto--the list goes on.


It was always, "That's nice, dear." She'd carry it for a week to placate me, and then go back to one of her Colt .38 snubbies, either the engraved Detective Special or the lightweight Agent with hammer shroud and Barami Hip-Grip that fit neatly into the waistband of her beltless slacks.


No Surrender


Male criminals tend to be misogynists. The man who would surrender to him at gunpoint would die rather than go to prison with it known that he had surrendered to her. He is more likely by far to attack and attempt to disarm a woman. More than 20 years of teaching handgun disarming and retention has taught me the hardest gun to take away from its legitimate owner is a 2-inch barreled revolver.
With a shrouded hammer, this is also the only gun a woman can fire through a coat pocket without a hammer or a slide fouling in fabric and stopping her stream of fire.


Ideal for shooting all day at a training school? No. Ideal for concealed carry in real world circumstances? Yes.


The snubnose .38 revolver with snag-free hammer might just be the best choice for the defensive problems an armed woman in this society is most likely to face.

I have found that many women think they want a light weight handgun but as we all know that means more recoil even from smaller calibers. It's important to balance carrying weight with felt recoil. With a gun that's too heavy or a gun that kicks too much many women are going to just not carry at all. My wife and my daughter both fell into that trap. No amount of me telling them they wouldn't like the lightweight guns they bought could change their mind. Now I'm the only one that carries my wife's .380 and I don't think anyone carries my daughter's .38 spcl. Both would have been better off with a snub nose .38 with some more weight even if it meant making it harder to carry. At least they wouldn't fear practicing with it.

That's why a lot of people carry those less than manly cartridges, though they rarely admit to it on the internet. There have been a couple instances where 22 LR has saved a woman in both NC, and SC. A few years back a man stopped a home invasion with a NAA 22 LR. Nothing wrong with an air-weight either with WC 38 target ammo. My suggestion would be a LCR in 327, loaded with 32 S&W long.

They can have it all, light weight, low recoil as long as they don't listen to men.

Do us a favor and let us know what she decides. You've received some sound advice, already.

I would also caution that the first purchase might not be a perfect fit. Go with the flow and let things shake out naturally.

Hey, she wants to learn how to protect herself, right? That's really GOOD news!

I put my ex on a Beretta tomcat 32. The tip up barrel and DA was great for her. I'd have liked to go bigger but with bigger comes more recoil. After a couple boxes she'd pepper a soda can at SD distances. After that I didn't worry about her hitting what she aimed at. But I also taught her its always a head shot. So we'd bounce between Folger's red plastic coffee cans and coke cans when we'd go shoot

My .02

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R/S
J.D.

Groo here
Is this her "first gun"?
I would point her toward a K frame snub ,m-10 round butt if possible or a new M-66 2 3/4..
Ammo in 38 can be loaded or gotten that is very light kick.
New +p stuff is better than years past.
To many want to buy "once".
This is not possible as the "right" gun will change as you learn.
Get a gun that fits HER,that She likes, and is big / heavy enough to shoot alot.
Extra light / small guns are for experienced shooters.

One big realty firm here in town rented out a range with instructor to run a CWP class for their employees.

If she doesn't like guns, why would she carry one? Is carrying a pistol her idea or yours? Maybe pepper spray would be a better option for her.

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Vegan by proxy.

If the range you go to have a ladies nght .. take her there and drop her off ..

Inside she can talk and see what other women are carrying and the reason why .. they will be more the happy to help her find something she will carry ..

We don't give woman enough credit when it comes to strength .. if taught proper technique most will be able to rack the slide of an auto .. there are as many slight build men as women out here that don't have any problem !!

Seems like it took my wife forever to decided what to carry once she actually made up her mind to. She shot everything I own and half of what the range had to rent before choosing MY Ruger SP101. She shoots it very well and is comfortable with it. Not wanting to be without one of my favorite handguns we now own two. I actually find myself carrying a J frame 638 more often than not. The advice to let her pick her own firearm is very sound.

If she doesn't like guns, maybe she shouldn't carry a gun until she 'likes' it. Someone who likes guns is likely to make the necessary lifestyle changes to be safe with the gun.

Someone who doesn't like guns probably shouldn't carry yet.

I'd say a .22 revolver, like the Ruger LCR, would be a good start.

"A little gun for my wife?" Do NOT pick it yourself! Take her to the range with someone else to coach her. Here is what my wife ended up picking:

That is a full-sized 4 inch Model 681 service revolver with Crimson Tracer grips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I have had a few thousand concealed weapons license students over the
past 17 years and a substantial percentage of them have been female.
So, I think I know the problem and some recommendations.
They almost all like the 642, and the Ruger LCR. When comparing new
the LCR usually wins because of the trigger.
I always tell them either is a good choice as long as they are aware of
recoil. I suggest they practice with light recoil wadcutters. There are
also some light recoil self-defense cartridges available.
I would not recommend anyone carry the gun in their purse.
When they need a gun, they need it quick. In the purse is not quick.
The best place for most women is appendix carry. I have also found
many women and some men do not wear a belt. A clip-on OWB or
IWB is a good choice. But the clip must be strong enough to grasp
just the waistband fabric. The loaded gun and holster must be fairly
light so it does not sag.
I have tested a lot of clip on holsters and found that there are few
that will cling to just the fabric of the waistband. They need to be sure
if they do not wear a belt that the holster does not come out wrapped
around the gun when they pull it.
On the left is the LCR and a FIST #1K that fits the bill perfectly.
If you prefer the 642 the Garrity "Inconspicuous" on the right
is a good choice.
I have tested them and they will hang on to the fabric.
There are a few others, but you get the idea.

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In Omnia Paratus

Expygator:

I'm not a fan of off body carry for anyone, but I also understand it may be difficult, if not impossible for some people and situations. I just went through this exercise with my daughter, who is a tiny person. She seems to be most comfortable with the Beretta Tomcat, and here is a link to a thread I just wrote on it:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139713799-post1.html

Recoil is negligible. The sights are tiny. They do make laser grips for it, but at least for me, the piece points well. It is chambered in .32ACP, not .380ACP, but I think any firearm is better than the one you didn't carry. By the way, in a J-frame, both the wife and daughter like the Centennial design (Model 442 or 642) over any other exposed hammer revolver.

Good luck,

Dave

An important, but often overlooked perspective from Claude Werner...

Talisman or tool? : The Tactical Wire

I'm curious what you think about Claude Werner's perspective. Looks like he's advocating mouse guns and saying civilian training isn't all it's cracked up to be.

IIRC, you advocate civilians carry a snub relover and are a professional trainer.

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Vegan by proxy.

I view it as more a matter of avoiding being condescending and dismissive rather than one of advocating.

Certain caliber are more effective than others IMO, but that doesn't mean the less than ideal caliber cannot be effective or may not be the best choice for a given individual based on their limitations.

With individuals who are well trained and highly skilled in the various aspects of self-defense and who constantly surround themselves with similar people, I think it relatively easy to get a skewed perspective and lose sight of what's realistic and practical for most people who may not be so serious about it.

I went through several of the suggestions as above with my wife. She is not a gun person..... liked the size and weight of my 642 nl but hated the grips. Our daughter, a Detective in our local PD, tried several different semi auto with her... nothing. I was browsing Ebay one night and saw a set of J frame Banana grips.... bought them and put them on my...now her..642. She also commandeered an old Buchiemer holster and.....
IMG_0469.jpg

People underestimate women because of their lack of strength. Having taught many women how to shoot, they often out perform men at a quicker rate because they LISTEN. Because they don't have the strength that men have they must rely on technique. No bravado. No macho attitude.

As stated by others I would choose a J frame revolver over all else. I do NOT recommend purse carry or any other form of off body carry. There simply will not be enough time to arm herself. She should use a holster and dress around the gun or wear a jacket or blazer and put the gun in her pocket.

Indoctrinate her slowly. Don't rush. Make it fun for her. When she's comfortable with a gun in her hand have her take a class or two.

When she's ready to buy take her to your favorite gun shop. When you walk in keep your mouth shut. Let her decide. Tell her "it's all her". Let her and the sales person communicate uninterrupted.

Having worked part time at guns shops for many years, it cracks me up when a guy walks in the door and loudly proclaims that "I'm here to buy my girl a gun". The outcome is never good.

Good luck.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I don't believe that a woman or man must 'like' guns in order value self defense and be safe with a firearm. Possessing discipline is of far more value in the safety equation than possessing a like for guns.

There are plenty of people who like guns with lots of trigger time that display unsafe gun handling. A woman with a few hours of proper training who possesses the discipline to follow what she has learned is perfectly welcome to carry around me. Hell, if all she does is keep the dang thing holstered she's way ahead of the firearms hobbyist who can't wait to jerk out his loaded carry gun for show & tell at the LGS.

This needs to be made into a big sign and posted at every gun shop and sticky'ed in every gun forum.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I HIGHLY recommend you check out a .327. It's the perfect round for someone who hasn't shot much, because it uses any .32 variant of ammo (even the semi-rimmed.32 ACP supposedly). I'd start her off with .32 Long (Fiocci is fairly cheap and available if you order online), they try .32 H&R, then full tilt .327 Mag if she does well with that. If all else fails you could even fall back to .32 Short for training. The .327 round is a monster. Anyone in front of a firing 327 is going to rethink their choices if just from the blast and noise. That said, it's far more manageable to the shooter than .357 and feels more like shooting .38 SPL in an airweight.

For carry, I'd get a LCR327 rather than a SP101 - I have the LCR and love it. I love SP101s also, but I think the LCR327 is the perfect weight for folks who want an easy and unobtrusive gun to carry.

I own several S&W revolvers, but IMO the LCR327 is the perfect gun for your situation. It's light so she can easily transition the gun from her purse to her waistband if she is in a bad situation and thinks the gun might be needed. After its broken in, the trigger pull is very light and the grip is well designed to absorb some recoil. And like I said, it's the most ammo flexible gun I have ever seen.

The only downside is they are spendy - I paid $500 at my LGS; they are $511+transfer fee at Buds. Not cheap, but that is one gun I don't think I'll ever sell. In 20 year when my arthritis is in full bloom, I have a feeling that LCR327 will be my primary CCW.

I'm sure it's been said but she's better off making her own choice

When my wife bought her last gun we went to our local gun shop, I turned her over to the owner, gave 1 stipulation (No SAOs) and walked away. A couple minutes later I looked over and he had 9 guns laying on the counter and they were going over each one.

The owner (A friend) answered her questions without pushing her one way or the other. She ended up with an LC9 that she's happy with.

That's how I "pick a gun for my wife".

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Retired Career Security Guard

My wife doesn't like guns, but she has come to realize that being armed is just
the prudent thing to do. There have been a few recent incidents, one very close to her workplace,
that have alarmed her. She told me a couple of months ago that she wanted to get her carry permit,
and she wanted her own gun.

I suppose my womenfolks might be different, but both my wife and my daughter trusted
my knowledge and experience to choose their weaponry. My daughter, after being frightened
pretty bad one night after she and a female friend were followed out of a theater by some thugs,
Said, "Daddy, you get me whatever kind of gun you think I need, just don't get me a pink gun."

Of course, I got them both S&W 442s. As far as I'm concerned, it's a no-brainer. There is nothing that
combines safety, simplicity, and reliability like the dao revolver. ESPECIALLY FOR THE NON-ENTHUSIAST.

I had trained my daughter with a Model 63, so she was already familiar with the design.
On the few occasions over the years I got my wife to shoot, it was with either a Model 36 or a Model 10.
I felt pretty confident that both of them would be comfortable with, and could become fairly proficient
with the 442.

I marvel at and truly admire those women, and men far as that goes, who are carrying a full-weight
K-frame. I am pretty sure that both my wife and daughter would balk at anything heavier than the
442. Most things in life are a compromise. As they say, the .22 you have with you is better
than the .45 you leave at home.

On another note, I really doubt whether either of my girls will ever carry on their person, except
possibly while wearing very informal clothes while out for a walk, etc. Maybe, possibly, one day, but now
I am just glad they have them in their vehicles when traveling, and in their purse when shopping, etc.

We will have a practice session this afternoon.

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Georgia On My Mind

You don't have to like a tool to use it, that goes for any tool. There are a lot of women who drive who are not into cars.

You have seen those also? I open carry so about once or twice a year some person approaches me to tell me they carry, and then proceed to show me their gun.

Well it seems like you have received some great advice here, but since there are only 2 pages... so far... I'd like to add mine.

First, I agree with everyone that says someone (man or woman) without the arm strength to rack a slide can be taught how to do it with proper technique. However, most self defense shootings don't happen under perfect circumstances. If a person has to use a push and pull technique to rack the slide, then they need to be in a good stance and have the balance to be able to push and pull the slide. BUT what happens if they are on the ground on their back, or down on one knee, or have their phone in the other hand, and the gun needs immediate action due to a malfunction? They will probably have trouble. With a revolver you simply pull the trigger again.

Secondly, some people aren't gun enthusiasts, and they don't want to take the time to go to the range as often as others, and they don't want to practice dry firing at home, etc. In other words they don't become as comfortable with the gun as we do. Immediate action drills to resolve a problem with a semi auto requires practice until it becomes muscle memory. In a tense situation, it MUST be muscle memory. While I agree that most modern semi autos are less likely to jam or have a problem it still happens. The manual of arms for a revolver is much easier to learn and less intimidating.

My girlfriend wanted to learn how to shoot. She had been intimidated by her sons guns, all semi autos. I taught her to shoot with a model 10. She fell in love with my (her) gun. She loved the simplicity of the weapon. No loading magazines, racking the slide, worrying about clearing malfunctions. She just enjoys shooting a revolver more. It's more simple and less to worry about. I have advised or taught several women how to shoot and most of them like the simplicity of a revolver over a semi auto. Now, I did teach my girlfriend how to shoot semi autos also, and she is a great shot. But she is still a little intimidated with the manual of operations for semi autos. They are just more complicated for a new shooter. Many women just want a gun for protection...they don't want to collect and shoot every gun out there...like some of us do. So for them I believe that the revolver is much easier to learn and operate.

I believe on body carry is the best option. However, I know that is not always possible or practical with the way women dress. I like the fact that my girlfriend can shoot through her purse if she needs to with her 642. She is comfortable with the gun and can shoot it well. I put Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips on both mine and her 642, and it really makes shooting the gun fun. Much less recoil and more to hold onto.

If recoil is a problem there are some light loads that will work well. The wadcutter has low recoil and will work well, and it's cheap and easily available.

I also think the .38 special is a good round and it's available everywhere.

Also, pepper spray is a good option too. She can carry that in addition to, or instead of a gun. A woman having her keys in her hand with a can of pepper spray readily available and not cause any alarm...whereas if she's standing there with a gun in her hand...it just might.

Good luck!
Fox

I'm going against the tide here and suggest that letting any newbie decide what is best is not the way to go.

As an example, my wife accompanied me to a LGS recently and just loved a Kimber .380 because of the color of the frame! Semi-autos, especially the smaller ones, can be susceptible to malfunction due to limp wristing and should be avoided.

A DA only (no exposed hammer) J frame is without a doubt the best choice for purse or pocket carry. Let her learn to love it. Giving your wife the best tool for the job is far more important than getting her one she likes for whatever reason.

Just my opinion,

digiroc

Shoot Well My Friends

Every woman that comes to our CHL license class has one of those "cute" colorful very small semi-auto pistols.
And every one of them leave with a cut up web on their hand between the thumb and fore-finger. Every one of them.
So, I recommend a small revolver for them.
But the gun-shops don't care about this.
Just the sale.
So,,,,once the Ladies qualify with their revolver,the other ladies with the cut hand are truly pissed off and return to their gun store.
Remember this and pass it along.

Not really.

First gun my wife bought was a Rossi 352, she found she had difficulty hitting the target. One time picking up my Star Super it was the gun for her. She has bought, and carried several since. Usually preferring one of my old ugly guns. I am nervous with her depending on a gun older than I am. Yea they work, but they have a lot of mileage.

She prefers semi autos, no sense pushing a revolver on her. Not sure I buy the bloody web though, somebody is not teaching them how to shoot properly. My wife has shot a PA-63 known for it's punishing recoil with no blood, and she carried that gun afterwards.

To be confident with a gun the woman has to be confident with the gun. If not she will not carry, shoving a J frame on them will only sit in a safe, or a drawer if that is not what they want.

My wife enrolled in a "Ladies Only" CC class offered at a local gun store that has an attached range as well as a full line of accessories available to customers, men and women alike.
I learned from that experience as well. Foremost, never underestimate a woman. As with anyone, proper instruction, coupled with interest and desire, can yield some amazing and unexpected results. The choice of 'what to carry' is likely to evolve with experience over time as it has with many of the guys here that have carried for a while. How many of us are carrying the same firearm we started carrying years ago? Let it evolve with time and experience.
Another side note: While waiting for my wife during class I was shopping the store. I found a nice purse that was made for CC. I took her to it after class telling her I had found exactly what she needs.... She said, "Yep, that is quite nice.... I like it, but not for CC. My instructor asked us what the first thing to go during a theft or altercation was... It's the purse. And if the purse and I get separated, I am separated from my gun. He even told us not to buy the CC purse downstairs." This is good food for thought when it comes to CC options.

I have a 442 that I have been carrying, I personally think the recoil isn't bad, even with +p. Then again my favorite guns to shoot are my 19-2 and my 629-2 (both with magnums). I did just order a 9mm Shield that I plan to make a CCW (I am hoping it's thinner form might conceal better than my revolver's cylinder). I do not carry a purse so that never was a consideration of mine, though carrying on body is slightly more of a challenge as a woman. Men tend to wear loose clothes with big deep pockets and such. Some holsters stick out too much on me and even the bra holsters depend on bust size and type of bra worn. Seems like I am going to spend more money on trying different holsters than I am on my guns.