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Old 08-17-2017, 04:26 AM
Wheelygunner Wheelygunner is offline
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:08 AM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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It can be frustrating when you're thinking back on an event, questing yourself "should I have done this" and "should I done that."

Once he got out of his car, you must of handled things right. He angrily confronted you. You deescalated the situation. He got back in his car and you both drove away with no one getting hurt. Seems like a good outcome for everyone.
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:31 AM
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Both eyes on the road, not on the Egg McMuffin. Ever have a situation awareness fail?
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:57 AM
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"Wise Men make mistakes. They just don't make the same mistake twice."


"Pocket carry is OK if you're standing and walking but when you're in the car you need to have your gun in a more accessible place."

Yes I agree. I always PocketCarry. You're right. When behind-the-wheel pocket carry is slow and difficult.
I "learned"(see above quote) a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, when the "sudden-unexpected" happens, my pistol needs to be *attached* to me.
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Good Luck & Stay Safe.

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Old 08-17-2017, 07:50 AM
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I use a Sticky Holster for pocket carry for two reasons; (1) Stays firmly in my pocket; & (2) I can transfer my gun (340PD or LCP) to IWB/appendix when behind the wheel.
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Wheelygunner View Post

3. Pocket carry is OK if you're standing and walking but when you're in the car you need to have your gun in a more accessible place. I now remember to keep my gun next to me in the car where I can easily reach for it.
The only problem with keeping the gun next to you when you drive is that it will not be there if you have to brake hard or are involved in a vehicular accident. One of the agents involved in the 1986 FBI Miami shootout was disarmed because he had his pistol under his leg.

If you keep it in a center console it will be available if needed. When I still pocket carried I pulled both the gun and holster and placed it in the console. A little bit slower than a dedicated driving holster, but it wasn't going anyplace. I find a cross draw holster worn at 10-11 O'clock works for me both in and out of the vehicle..
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:42 AM
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I would have thrown it in reverse IF he started to approach. Otherwise he can get in his car and start following me!!!!

I once had a similar situation with a cop. My friend had just moved and I was leaving his house after dark (after helping him move). I was unfamiliar with the area and thought I made the correct turn. I turned behind a cop and was basically following him. We were the only two on the road. I kept making every turn he was. It wasn't on purpose and I was more concentrated on reading street signs and trying to remember what looked familiar then on the fact that I was following him, although I knew he was in front of me. After a few minutes he stops in the middle of the road and gets out. I immediately realized what was going on. Kept my hands on the wheel and lowered the window when he approached. He asked if there was a reason I was following him...... I explained the situation and he got back in his car and had me follow him to the main road that I was looking for! After that I beeped a "thank you" and made my turn

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Old 08-17-2017, 10:07 AM
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I wonder if OP was eating his fast food breakfast as he drove.

If so, that's the primary situational awareness failure.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:43 AM
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There are lots of morons out there, don't overthink it.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:04 PM
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Gangbanger-looking or not, this dude basically seems to me to have been acting on an assumption that people are mostly civilized but not always good drivers. He was pissed, but he didn't overtly threaten you. He approached you without thinking he might get shot. That's not a proof, but it's a hint that he was not thinking about violence. While I certainly endorse your attempting to improve your capability of a quick and violent response, I also notice that it actually was NOT called for here, even though it initially seemed to be. All the more reason for a capability of speed, so that you don't feel obliged to respond prematurely.
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelygunner View Post
. I was on my way to work, trying to drink my coffee or whatever and not thinking and being aware of the potential danger.
Dont Drink N Drive.....
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:19 PM
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Yes, I know that now but the whole situation caused me to think that if I had been doing nothing wrong, and this guy just wanted to rob me or attack me for some reason I would've been caught off-guard and was unprepared to counter it, so it taught me to be more aware of my surroundings and to make sure my gun is somewhere were I can quickly get to it.

Regardless, it's never a good idea to get out of your car in the middle of the road to confront someone over some real or perceived slight. Had I given this guy the wrong kind of look or flipped him off or something, he could've gotten violent. He looked like the type who would have.
In that case, didn't you already have your best weapon for those circumstances pointing right at him? (your car)
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:34 PM
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My belief is that if you haven't had a situational awareness fail today, you haven't evaluated things enough.
We all have them and most go unoticed because nothing ever developed.
All you can do is what you're already doing. Think about things that happened and think about what you might have done differently.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:59 PM
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Just my opinion, but unless you're stuck/trapped by traffic, obstacles, other cars, etc., the best option is to drive away. Chances are, you can throw your car into reverse and punch it quicker than drawing a gun. Leave enough space between your car and the car in front of you, and you could probably go around or make a u-turn if you're blocked from behind. (Curb? What curb? ). In the book Defensive Living by Ed Lovette and Dave Spaulding (which I recommend), I believe the authors mention that most vehicle attacks could've been avoided if the driver had just backed up away from the situation.

Depending on the circumstances, it may be better to acquiesce and walk (or drive) away than escalate, which sounds like what you did.

Personally, I think you did ok, given the circumstances. I think you'll be paying a little more attention next time, maybe even have some plans/options thought out beforehand, with some mental rehearsals.

Last thought. Nobody can maintain 100% situational awareness 100% of the time. Even teams of highly trained bodyguards don't catch everything.



At times, everybody gets distracted by some...oooh! Butterfly!

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Old 08-17-2017, 05:19 PM
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One of my biggest pet peeves is Tailgaters , I was taught to leave at least one car length between myself and the next car. Safety is the reason I was given. The "gaters" will leave 3 feet and that is dangerous and irritates me also.
The other pet peeve is the "gaters" at the red light will leave 3 car lengths between them and the next car....I was taught to leave 6 feet here , more cars can pass through on the green cycle.
People need to realize they shouldn't tailgate !
" I did nothing wrong"....yes you did ...you were tailgating and most people don't like it. Show some care and caution.
Gary
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:25 PM
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One of my biggest pet peeves is Tailgaters , I was taught to leave at least one car length between myself and the next car. Safety is the reason I was given. The "gaters" will leave 3 feet and that is dangerous and irritates me also.
The other pet peeve is the "gaters" at the red light will leave 3 car lengths between them and the next car....I was taught to leave 6 feet here , more cars can pass through on the green cycle.
People need to realize they shouldn't tailgate !
" I did nothing wrong"....yes you did ...you were tailgating and most people don't like it. Show some care and caution.
Gary


Except with the way most drivers drive especially in a city 1.5 million you never make progress. Any space large enough some joker shoots in to it. So you drop back and it repeats.

I dont like gaters but IF you run in to the back of me YOUR at fault.

I


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Old 08-17-2017, 06:17 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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One of my biggest pet peeves is Tailgaters , I was taught to leave at least one car length between myself and the next car. Safety is the reason I was given. The "gaters" will leave 3 feet and that is dangerous and irritates me also.
The other pet peeve is the "gaters" at the red light will leave 3 car lengths between them and the next car....I was taught to leave 6 feet here , more cars can pass through on the green cycle.
People need to realize they shouldn't tailgate !
" I did nothing wrong"....yes you did ...you were tailgating and most people don't like it. Show some care and caution.
Gary
Rule of thumb I learned is if stop so you can see where the rear tires on the car in front of you is contacting the pavement, you have enough room to not be blocked in. If you can't see the rear tires of the car ahead of you contacting the ground, you're too close.
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:36 PM
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My situation was similar, except the other guy was in my Lane of travel's left turn lane. He must have just zoomed up, because it seemed he suddenly appeared. He made an angry gesture and I just threw up my hands. My Bodyguard.380 was inaccessible because I was coming from the VA. Fortunately, I let him go and that was that.
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Old 08-17-2017, 08:33 PM
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I recommend leaving plenty of space between you and the car ahead. I use the 2 second rule. I don't worry about people cutting into the crack, I just follow them 2 seconds. Most of the folks who weave in and out and pass and cut in don't get to their destination in a meaningfully quicker time. I always pocket carry, but usually have a second handgun easy to access while seated. As has been stated, you'll get zoned out sometimes and not be prepared for a confrontation, but that's life. I've been approached by a pedestrian at a red light, who wasn't collecting for crippled children. Seeing him approach out of my peripheral vision, I had my handgun in my lap, by the time he reached my window. He decided that he really didn't need to "talk" to me, when he saw what was in my hand, on my lap.

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Old 08-18-2017, 05:21 AM
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The outcome obviously was good, no one hurt and lessons learned. You mentioned you would pay more attention to having weapon assessable, good idea there, however, I would add lose the morning coffee and Egg breakfast in the car, get up earlier, eat at home or sit down in restaurant. No way can anyone drive in morning traffic and have a meal with drink and concentrate on driving. In one hand you have a cup of screaming hot coffee and in the other a 3000 lb weapon. Not trying to be critical here, just making an observation, hope I didn't offend, you seem to be thinking this situation through, that's a good thing. I have certainly made my share of boo boo's.
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:51 PM
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Absolutely no one can be even 90% aware of everything around them all the time. There was definitely a fail in the OP that points to a more egregious lack of awareness though because he didn't even know what the guy was upset about. I'm not bagging on Wheelygunner at all, we all get caught unaware. I'm just pointing out, and I think Wheelygunner is too, that he probably would have known what the guy was upset about if his awareness was just a tad better. Even more so, had he been paying closer attention, the situation might not have happened at all.


I play electric bass at my church. At an evening service I was concentrating on a difficult bass part during one song. As the song went on, two uniformed police officers came in, walked the length of the front of the stage, talked to the pastor and then all of them got up and left. I didn't notice any of it. It was something that was completely out of the ordinary and obviously out of place. There is even a chance that I looked right at them all. Alas, I was so focused on my own situation, I didn't see anything.

I've gotten better, but I completely understand what the OP is saying. Situational awareness is something that must be worked on. Don't get complacent.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:54 AM
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I think you did fine. I would have done same in my working days pocket carry daily. No muffin for me but a big glup of high octane coffee
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Old 08-19-2017, 11:35 AM
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Some people will stop and jump out of their car for trivial reasons, including going too slow (i.e., the speed limit) for their sensibilities. These sorts will usually telegraph their intentions by slowing down and/or craning their neck to see you in the rear view mirror. If they pass you, it is often accompanied with eye-balling you with various physical and verbal gestures. Ignore them, but be prepared to stop suddenly.

Let them vent, but don't acknowledge them nor reciprocate. It's not worth escalating the situation. Don't flash a gun either. That's the ultimate escalation.

I keep my doors locked and windows up in traffic. That buys time if things get hot. Enough time to draw from a pocket holster. I also leave enough space at a stop light to drive around a stalled car.

In the worst case, get out of there, on the shoulder or sidewalk if necessary, or back up to put space between you and the assailant. In the worst case, you have the same kinetic energy at 30 mph as a 105 mm howitzer.

It doesn't hurt to have a dash cam for evidence other than he-said he-said testimony. Just be sure you are not documenting your own transgressions, at least those likely to provoke a reasonable person.

I had one pick-em-up driver pull alongside the passenger side and eyeball me angrily. I think he saw my holstered pistol, because he disappeared after about a second.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:40 PM
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Sounds like you learned your lesson...stop beating yourself up. We all have times when we are not as sharp as we would like.

I tried the pocket carry thing for awhile... when seated it is a big problem to gain access quickly. I carry OWB only at 3:30... no matter if seated in a restaurant or in my truck I have ready access to my EDC.

This incident ended with no one being hurt..... that is a win.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:08 PM
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Like many have stated you did the right thing by not escalating the situation. We've all been in situations where a person became irate, but we don't know why. The encounter probably lasted a few seconds and by remaining cool it ended quickly without incident.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:17 PM
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Backing up was not important. It is important to prepare to defend. You made one mistake. You left you pocket gun in your pocket and then strapped in. I carry a Remington 380 in my back posket in a holster. When I am going into a car, whether driving or not I take the holstered gun out of my pocket and place it where I can quickly reach it if need be. That will protect you more than backing up. If the guy was intending to shoot at you, he could have done it while you backed up. If you had the gun ready you could have dissuaded him from shooting.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:27 PM
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[QUOTE=Wheelygunner;139711062]One of my biggest pet peeves is people who don't thoroughly read a post and jump to the wrong conclusions.**** ! Is there any chance this could be presented to a rules committee, for inclusion amongst the "stickies" ???

Your point about a situational awareness lapse is well taken here; mostly because as in your stated case, until it happens, there is no "situation"; unlike a venture into a ghetto dark alley.... And oh yeah; keep your pocket carry and add a second console gun.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:07 AM
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I think that you handled it well.You encountered someone with a short fuse or paranoid.Your virtual lack of response in light of his out in the open dance, helped to defuse it.I've been in somewhat similar situations,ignoring them or a small apologetic wave is best in my opinion.If you had made a different gesture,hit reverse,or zoomed around him, it might have "game on". He vented his steam,but he also knew that longer that he was outside of his car,acting up,the more that he might look an idiot or hothead to other motorists......and who knows..he may had been rear ended in the past,and didn't want that to happen again.He might even have noted in his mirror that you were also distracted with your breakfast,which stepped up his worry.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:08 AM
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I think that you handled it well.You encountered someone with a short fuse or paranoid.Your virtual lack of response in light of his out in the open dance, helped to defuse it.I've been in somewhat similar situations,ignoring them or a small apologetic wave is best in my opinion.If you had made a different gesture,hit reverse,or zoomed around him, it might have "game on". He vented his steam,but he also knew that longer that he was outside of his car,acting up,the more that he might look an idiot or hothead to other motorists......and who knows..he may had been rear ended in the past,and didn't want that to happen again.He might even have noted in his mirror that you were also distracted with your breakfast,which stepped up his worry.
Yes, we never know what is in another driver's mind. It could be just hunger, personal problems, drugs, or character flaws that lead to acting out. It is best to diffuse the situation, even at the expense of deflating our own egos for a second or two. This doubly applies when we are armed. As far as the driving part, distracted driving is a real problem. Following too closely can make me unhappy, especially when it is an 18 wheeler. I think too often we take driving much too lightly. It helps to try to develop better habits and put more attention into the process. A vehicle can be a dangerous weapon, as terrorists are now demonstrating. As the OP stated, planning ahead for a commute to work can make a big difference...just set the alarm a few minutes earlier.

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