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Old 08-23-2017, 02:56 AM
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Question Tips for Someone Just Starting to CC?

I am use to shooting guns of most calibers and I own several, however I have been wanting a carry gun for a while now. After doing some reading and shopping around I got a 442-2 about a month ago (I have always been more comfortable with revolvers and they make up almost all of the guns I own). It came with a Kydex holster like the one in this picture (not my photo).
I have been hearing different opinions and advice on how I should wear it and if I should get a different holster. I would like to get some advice from all of you on best ways to carry and holster choices. Also I keep reading that a good amount of people have more than one CCW which they rotate out with one another, why is that? Should I get another gun for carrying?
One other problem I am running into is most of the advice I am getting are from male carriers. Does the way I carry my gun differ because I am a woman? I have been finding it a challenge trying to figure out where I can conceal a gun with the much more form fitting female clothing (I do not carry a purse).
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Old 08-23-2017, 06:03 AM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
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On Different Holsters

You're likely going to need to try a few. Most people have a Box o' Holsters sitting unused in their basement. Instead of buying one or two really nice holsters at $75-$100 each, consider looking for a variety at the $40 price point, for instance.

How you carry is going to be dependent on personal preference, the gun you're using, what you normally wear, how often (and how long) you carry, what environments you're carrying in, what you're doing, how critical it is to maintain "perfect" concealment, what your body type is like...

In short, nobody can really tell you but you, and you're going to have to find out for yourself.

On Rotating Guns

There are really two groups of people that do this.

One group changes up their carry gun based on the needs of the day. Maybe in the summer, they carry something a bit smaller because they can't conceal their full-size pistol with a t-shirt and jeans. Maybe they carry a 5-shot .38 Spl J-frame around town, but if they're headed to a big-city mall, they switch over to a compact 10-shot 9mm.

The other group swaps stuff around because they get bored. It's fine--it's their choice, after all--but only if they maintain competency with every gun they carry. I've seen enough people struggle to remember to chamber a round with a pistol (yes, really), or forget how to work the decocker on a DA/SA they own but never shoot.

Do you need more than one gun? No, so long as the one you pick does everything you need it to do. It might take a little more effort if that one gun is something more "CCW midsize" than if you had a .380 mouse gun to fall back on, but it's not like CCW isn't something that should be approached with zero effort.

Now, the flip side is that you may not actually carry every day (sacrilege, I know, but also reality). In my case, it's just not legal for me to do so. That's fine. Yes, it's true that if you ever need to use your gun, you're not going to see the need in advance. If you could, being a normal, reasonable human being, you'd have avoided the threat. But it's equally true that you're more likely to never need it at all.

Everything about CCW is a compromise--not just the guns.

Male vs Female Bodies

There is absolutely a difference between men and women. Our bodies are shaped differently. You should absolutely seek advice from female carriers. I think that Tom Givens' wife contributes a little in his books, but it might be John Farnham or somebody else.

As for clothes, you might have to make some style sacrifices. Tight tanks and hiphugger jeans just don't lend themselves to concealing a handgun via traditional means. But--women also get to accessorize in ways that men can't get away with (and not just purses!). Maybe you add a light jacket or a blazer, or tie a sweater around your waist. You can wear a billowy shirt in the summer--literally, IWB E-Z mode--and a vest that would scream "concealed weapon" on a guy doesn't raise a bit of suspicion on a lady.

Sexism can work for you, too. People don't expect women to be carrying a gun. Criminals are no more enlightened. No purse--hey, great, no bag of nasty items (pepper spray and cell phone) to worry about.

And there are way more female-specific carry options than you might think! There are "belly-bands" that go under a shirt, letting you carry either in front, or in some cases, at 3 o'clock. There are other bands for carry on the thigh or calf. There are athletic-type tanks that can be worn under another shirt and have pockets for a carry position similar to a shoulder holster. Everything you can imagine, from presentable Ts that can be worn under a button-down shirt, to...(ahem) underthings.

Spend some time with Google, you'll see what I mean. Point is, there are more companies with quality products for alternative carry (read: some kind of waistline holster) for women than there are for men. And given that women are the fastest-growing segment of gun owners in the country, there are more quality options out there than ever before.

Last edited by Wise_A; 08-23-2017 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 08-23-2017, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGoat View Post
I have been finding it a challenge trying to figure out where I can conceal a gun with the much more form fitting female clothing (I do not carry a purse).

Does the way I carry my gun differ because I am a woman?
If your unwilling to modify your form fitting wardrobe, you limit your options. When my husband and I decided to carry, it required wardrobe modification to carry in the manor we felt comfortable (IWB 4:00). It took trial and error, and a box full of holsters, before we figured out what worked best for us.

There are so many factors that go into making the carry decision, it's probably best to just start carrying. Any problems will make themselves know quickly. A purpose-built holster belt is a good thing to start with.

I'd imagine that since you live in an open-carry state, that printing is not punishable, but it's good to be able to conceal anyway.

The difference in carry that women may experience is that your shape may cant the grips toward your ribs.

One benefit to your living up north is that for a major portion of the year, you can wear a cover garment like a vest which expands your options.

Last edited by bigwheelzip; 08-23-2017 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 08-23-2017, 06:58 AM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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In terms of number of pistols, I have two of my carry pistols. Two 642's for me. I alternate which one I carry monthly. The one one that's not being carried is what I use for dry fire (most days) and shooting at the range (weekly).

It does two things for me. I'm not loading and unloading my carry pistol daily for dry fire practice. I figure the less I'm transitioning from loaded to dry fire and back, the less chance for a negligent discharge. It also gives me a spare if one has to be repaired. One of my 642's locked up and needed to go back to S&W (revolvers do break).

In terms of holsters, lots of people like kydex. I think kydex in uncomfortable for IWB. I prefer leather. I've shot rifles and shotguns most of my life. When I started shooting pistols a few years ago, I thought it was the pistols that would be expensive. It's the holsters. Sort of like razor blades, but you put them in a box instead of throwing them away.
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Old 08-23-2017, 07:54 AM
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I see posts from people who rotate carry guns and that's something I don't understand. If you're involved in a self defense shooting (I've been there as a cop) things will go down so fast you will not have time to think. If you decide to rotate it would be wiser (IMHO) to keep the operating platform the same. That means always carry a revolver or always carry a semi auto.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:30 AM
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Clothing definitely makes a big difference. It's probably harder for women then men. Women's clothing is typically more form fitting. You will definitely have to modify something. Start with a good belt. Specifically one made for carrying a gun. That will make all the difference. When buying jeans I have my holster with me and start with 2 sizes bigger, to accommodate the holster. If my waist is 34 I start with 36 and then go to relaxed or loose fit depending on the actual company. Some jeans are fine in normal fit while others are still tight in loose fit. Some jeans are still too big in size 36 and some will be too small across their whole line. So be prepared to try a bunch. After a while you'll figure out which company works for you. For instance I know that Levi's typically are cut smaller than Wrangler.

Holsters are something that everyone has a box of. Keep trying different ones to see what works.....IF your current one doesn't. I find that I don't like outside the waist holsters or inside the waist with only one clip (which is what you have in the picture). I prefer one wider with 2 clips spread apart. I feel it distributes the weight better and pulls in tighter to my body.

Generic photo



This MY comfort level. Yours may be totally different.

You'll also have to find a spot on your body where it's most comfortable. Each spot will be a trade off between comfort/concealability and ease of access. The easiest place to draw from is by your stomach area. That's called the "appendix" carry, however it's usually the least comfortable..... depending on your build.

Look for a holster that you can adjust the cant. That's where you can move the clips up/down to angle the gun and hide the grip better. If you are carrying on your hip and the gun is straight up and down the grip may poke out from the back. This will depend on your shape and type of gun. If you were to lift up the front facing clip and lower the back one the gun will tilt forward and the grip will now be on an angle thus concealing better.





Again...it's will all be what fits you. No two people are the same.

Darker shirts conceal better. And, like jeans, you'll have to try a bunch to see which fit better.

If you carry inside the waist the holder is up against your skin. That may start to get irritating. I wear an undershirt (tank top) all year round. I don't know how summers in Id are like but here in Pa winters are cold and snowy and summers are hot and brutally humid.i still wear an undershirt. I find it also helps if I sweat....I don't sweat through my shirt. Also, most of us go from house to car to store, which are all air conditioned. The min or two we spend outside in between those places is not a big deal.

----------------------------

As to carrying different guns.... like Old cop said....it's something I don't understand. There are times you may need a smaller gun due to clothing restrictions. Usually formal attire. But otherwise one gun should be enough. Know where you live, realize there is no perfect gun or caliber and carry a good quality gun. If you're in or around a big city a different gun with more ammo may make more sense. If you have a small town where everyone knows your name .... a small revolver may be all you need.

I carry a Glock 19 all day and all year with the exception of having to wear formal attire or walking my dog. Those times I have 2 other guns that fit that need. My work clothes are t-shirts and jeans and I can conceal a Glock easily. I can also shoot it better than a revolver. I don't understand why people switch up just because but that's their problem.



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Last edited by Arik; 08-23-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:48 AM
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As a female, you will want to read Kathy Jackson's site - CorneredCat;:
Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.

Her book is $20, her site has all kinds of info - written by a female instructor for women (and especially their know-it-all husbands!) on carrying, guns and different types, etc. IIRC, she is still a Mod on The Firing Line under the name of PAX.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
I see posts from people who rotate carry guns and that's something I don't understand. If you're involved in a self defense shooting (I've been there as a cop) things will go down so fast you will not have time to think. If you decide to rotate it would be wiser (IMHO) to keep the operating platform the same. That means always carry a revolver or always carry a semi auto.
I agree completely. Same handgun, same holster, same carry position every day, and that includes range training and practice. The time when you are confronted by a threat requiring armed defense is not the time to find yourself wondering what you are carrying, where you are carrying it, whether or not there are mechanical safety devices to deal with, etc.

Everything in holster design involves compromises among the 4 basic factors of comfort, accessibility, security, and concealment. Whenever one factor is emphasized there will be compromises in the other factors. Only you can decide which factor(s) are most important for your needs; there is no "perfect holster" for every user or situation.

The female form is generally different from males. Most women benefit from a somewhat lower riding holster than a man might use, and a neutral cant (carry angle) can be of benefit. Carry at the 3:00 position (directly over the point of the hip), or slightly forward of that position, frequently provides good comfort with good accessibility.

Cover garments (blouse, sweater, vest, jacket, etc) should be of a full-cut design rather than closely form-fitting. Materials with some body (canvas, poplin, broadcloth, etc) are generally better than soft woven garments that tend to cling.

Don't be surprised is you have to try two or three different holster designs before finding what works best for you. Most of us have had to do that, sometimes again and again.

Best regards from an old retired cop and holster maker.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:17 AM
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Hi SuperGoat:

Lots of good advice so far. I'm not a fan of off-body carry, and I've been having discussions with my daughter about concealed carry - so I'm learning lots about the challenges that ladies have carrying concealed handguns. The Model 442 and stainless steel equivalent Model 642 are excellent concealed carry handguns. If you wear pants with baggy front pockets, you might want to consider pocket carry. If you pocket carry, you should always use a holster to help break-up the outline of the piece, and for safety's sake. Also, don't carry anything else in the pocket with the handgun. For pocket holsters, I'm partial to the DeSantis Nemesis holster. Some people don't like them, but a good, lightweight shoulder holster can also be an option with a good cover garment. I like the Ken Null shoulder holsters: K.L. Null Holsters Home Page

As far as a cover garment goes, it gets really hot here in Texas. I'll wear an Under Armor type T-shirt, and a loosely fitting Aloha-type shirt as a cover garment. If your cover garment has a lot of patterns in it, it will help disguise the holster and handgun, and you can button a few of the buttons to keep it from flapping open and exposing your handgun. Bianchi used to make an excellent shoulder holster - the 9R, that is still available on the used market. This is a very good holster that can also be used on the belt if the shoulder harness is removed. You might also want to look at the Remora holster: Home | Remora Concealment Holsters

The Remora is used for IWB (In the Waist Band carry), but can also be used as a pocket carry holster if your pockets are big enough (I often use mine for a jacket pocket holster).

One final thing to consider - every gun store I've ever been to has a "box of used holsters" somewhere in the store (usually in the back, or under a counter). Ask to see it, and you might find some good holsters at decent prices. Generally, the gun store owner didn't pay a nickel for the holsters - they are usually thrown in by the previous owner of a handgun that was bought by the gun store - so negotiate the prices accordingly.

Best of luck,

Dave
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:18 AM
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Congrats on the 442. Mine is around. 6 + years old. I pocket carry ot on a blackhaw pocket holster. Depends on your clothing. As far as a rotation on carry I do many .32, .380, .38 (442) , 9mm , 40, & 45 Acp. To answer your question my carry gun varies on where I am at and going. All are pocket except the 40, & 45.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:39 AM
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I can't contribute much, other than to say you might see if there is are women's carry forums..or perhaps women's law enforcement forums (fora?) where you could ask some questions.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:24 AM
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In general, I would advise you to view your gun as one tool in a tool box. Ideally, in addition to skill-at-arms you should work on developing observation/situational awareness/avoidance skills, unarmed self defense, and first aid/trauma care. People have different time and/or financial constraints so do the best you can with the resources you have to learn these skills.

I would try to avoid off-body carry, i.e. purses/bags/etc. You said you don't carry purses so that shouldn't be a problem, but do keep it in mind. It's much easier to secure your gun when you carry it on your person.

As for female-specific advice, well, I can't help you there. Instead, I'll share some videos...


She has other videos on her channel that might be worth viewing.

Melody Lauer
- YouTube


This is Melody Lauer's channel. She's a female firearms instructor and has lots of videos that are female-oriented.

ETA: I'll also recommend a few books that, while not female-focused, may be of general help. The Snubby Revolver, by Ed Lovette; Defensive Living, by Ed Lovette and Dave Spaulding; Gun Digest Book of the Revolver, by Grant Cunningham; and Protect Yourself With Your Snubnose Revolver, by Grant Cunningham.

I hope that helps.

Last edited by ContinentalOp; 08-23-2017 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Additional thought.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:38 AM
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Okay, I rotate between to J Frames, a 642 and a 638. Both have Altamont boot grips so I carry whatever I feel like on a given day. I pocket carry during the summer and belt carry during cooler weather. Too many years of Sam Browne belts and sitting on my wallet have made IWB a non option for me.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:43 AM
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I change my carry gun throughout the year for the same reason I have different kinds of shoes and clothes. The time of year and my activity dictates what I carry. My cool weather gun is a 586 L-Comp, when the hot, humid days of summer role around I want something other than a 36oz+ gun on my hip.
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:43 AM
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I have had a few thousand Concealed Weapons License students over
the past 17 years, and a high percentage of them have been female.
What I mean is I have been aware of your particular needs for a while.

Some of the things I have to say may or may not apply to you. Take
them for what they are worth.

First, when you need your gun for personal protection, you will probably
need it quick. Many places people carry are not quick. Like purses for
example.

I have also found that many women, and some men, don't wear belts,
at least all of the time.

Most women tell me the appendix location is most comfortable for them
and coincidentally it is also probably the quickest access.

I think you have the best choice for a gun. When asked, I recommend
S&W 642/442 and or Ruger LCR. If buying new, some prefer the LCR
because of the trigger.

Years ago there was Bianchi's Law. I don't remember the specifics,
but generally, it meant always carry the same gun, in the same holster,
in the same location. So when you need your gun you don't have to
first remember where it is today.

If you don't always wear a belt, get a good clip-on OWB or IWB.
The clip must be strong enough to cling to just the waistband fabric
so when drawn the gun doesn't come out with the holster wrapped
around it. All of the clip-ons will not cling well enough. Nor do the
makers claim that they will. But some will. IWB holsters by FIST,
Bell-Charter-Oak, Wild Bill, and Garrity Gunleather have all passed
the test.

Gun and holster must also be light enough that they do not sag with
your waistband.

Here are a few to consider Left to Right:
FIST #1K with Ruger LCR (The knife is a Piranha)
Bell-Charter-Oak Chicago Rocker holster
Garrity "Inconspicuous"
Wild Bill's Covert Tuckable
The above 4 are all IWBs. If you wear in appendix position
you would want a neutral cant 0 degrees.
MagJic (2 strong magnets instead of a clip) good for crossdraw
or attached to chest belt when driving.
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:36 PM
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Thank you for all the advice everyone. Because I only had the holster it came with I have tried on the hip and appendix carry. For comfort, I like the hip carry better but the gun tends to show itself when I bend over, plus I have to watch out more in that position when around my kids, I have a 3 year old and a 15 month old. I almost always am wearing jeans that are tight but get looser as they go down to the legs and a plain women's t-shirt.
Another problem for me is ankle holsters, I haven't even tried it because I have psoriasis and it has been really going after my lower legs for the past year (too painful to wear something up against the skin).
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:45 PM
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Old 08-23-2017, 02:48 PM
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Whatever you get, I suggest you carry it unloaded around the house until you get used to it.
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:00 PM
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Wow Wow Wow what great information !!!!
My carry is quite simple pocket carry in the summer and ankle carry in the winter, same gun always.
Now over the years the carry method has not changed but the gun has. Started with a 36 to a 60 to
a 37 to a Mustang to a Pony to a LCP and now thinking about a LC9.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:20 PM
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Thank you for all the advice everyone. Because I only had the holster it came with I have tried on the hip and appendix carry. For comfort, I like the hip carry better but the gun tends to show itself when I bend over, plus I have to watch out more in that position when around my kids, I have a 3 year old and a 15 month old. I almost always am wearing jeans that are tight but get looser as they go down to the legs and a plain women's t-shirt.
Another problem for me is ankle holsters, I haven't even tried it because I have psoriasis and it has been really going after my lower legs for the past year (too painful to wear something up against the skin).
Ankle holsters are good for back up guns or when you really really have no other choice. They are too slow and leave you exposed for too long a time. You would have to see the treat from far away. Imagine the time to takes to bend over/get on one knee, pull up your pant leg, pull gun put and stand up/get out of the way. And all when you need it right now!

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Old 08-23-2017, 03:36 PM
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Go to your local range on Ladies Night .. talk to all the women there and find out what they are using .. how they carry and how they use cover garments for women ..

you'll get a much better ideal there then here talking to mostly a bunch of guys .. there are some YouTube videos you might watch also ..
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Old 08-23-2017, 03:47 PM
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Many years ago I had a friend who finally got his one and only promotion on the PD. He went to celebrate at a local hotel w/his wife and some friends, and wanted to remove his jacket and dance w/his wife. He removed his holstered weapon, put it on the seat and covered it w/his jakcet. When he returned the gun, his issued weapon, was gone. Lesson, avoid off body carry if at all possible.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:17 PM
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The J frame is a great EDC choice, I carry a 640 as a bug and sometimes as my EDC. My wife's carry choice is a 642-1 nl and she uses an old Buchiemer holster at 4-4:30. My daughter and daughter-n-law carry a Glock 42 and Sig 938, respectively, appendix with inside the waist band holsters. You will have to work it out to see what works best for you. Check YouTube... there are several women that have channels that can help educate you and learn of their choices and how they found a way to carry a sidearm.

Good luck and congrats for being pro-active in defense of yourself and those close to you.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:43 AM
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Many woman ankle carry as that is the only way they can carry comfortably while still being able to wear whatever pants they want. Purse carry is another option but the experts don't recommend that, you should always have your gun on your person just like the guys. You never know when some purse snatcher will strike, who will then get your gun along with everything else or if a toddler gets a hold of your gun left in an unattended purse and shoots you like what happened to that poor woman at Walmart a few years back.
Unfortunately I don't think I can wear an ankle holster due to my severe psoriasis. However I know, me personally, I would rather not carry at all then have it in a purse for the safety of my children. My 3 yr old son I am sure would point it at me or himself if he were to get a hold of it and that is why I am extra cautious when the gun is on me (I also have it in it's own little safe up high when in the house so the children cannot get to it. It may be harder to reach in an emergency but I want to make sure my kids cannot get it it, all my other guns are unloaded with the ammo in a separate area).

Last edited by SuperGoat; 08-24-2017 at 03:46 AM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:59 AM
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Default Learn 'when' to shoot...

...because it is every bit as important as knowing 'how' to shoot. Perhaps more so...

Be safe.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:34 AM
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My standard advice for new concealed carriers is: Get a mouse gun and plenty of practice.
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:15 PM
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Sorry, but to me, that is very poor advice; mouse guns are some of the hardest to shoot and operate proficiently. In any cartridge size worth using, the recoil can be harsh, the controls small, the trigger or slide difficult to operate.
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:06 PM
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I have a question. So I have been told to use the same gun, grips, ammo, ect. when training so you get used to shooting with the setup you are more likely to have when needing to defend yourself. I wear glasses but I take them off at night and leave them on my bathroom counter, I was wondering, if someone broke in and I had to go out without having the time to go get my glasses should I try training some without my glasses? My sight is blurry but I might be able to learn where to hold.
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Old 08-25-2017, 03:36 PM
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should I try training some without my glasses? My sight is blurry but I might be able to learn where to hold.
Definitely. Before getting cataract surgery on my left (non-dominant) eye, I was legally blind without my glasses (I couldn't clearly see the "E" at the top of the eye chart), as well as being horribly near-sighted. My wife one time asked how far could I shoot a handgun without glasses, so I experimented the next time I went to the range. At the range, I found I could put shots into the kill zone of a standard B-27 target at up to 20 yards without glasses. That was plenty enough for me. Since my cataract surgery, my left eye is 20/20 (I wear a contact lens in my right eye). I also hope the cataract in my right eye matures soon so that I can have corrective surgery in that eye and have 20/20 vision in both eyes.

You should be in good shape if you can put hits in the kill zone of a B-27 target at 5-7 yards without glasses.

Best of luck,

Dave

Last edited by Double-O-Dave; 08-25-2017 at 06:38 PM. Reason: Eliminated erroneous information
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:02 PM
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BTW, something you might consider is leaving a can of Wasp/Hornet spray close to your nightstand to use as anti-insect, as well as for antipersonnel purposes. You get 15-20 ft. range out of the can, and while I wouldn't want that stuff in my face or mouth, it would incapacitate temporarily without lasting effect (giving you enough time to run, or put your glasses on).
I try not to take a firm stand with regards to advice/opinions, but I have to say that this is some of the worst advice I've heard. DO NOT DO THIS!
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:35 PM
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Definitely. Before getting cataract surgery on my left (non-dominant) eye, I was legally blind without my glasses (I couldn't clearly see the "E" at the top of the eye chart), as well as being horribly near-sighted. My wife one time asked how far could I shoot a handgun without glasses, so I experimented the next time I went to the range. At the range, I found I could put shots into the kill zone of a standard B-27 target at up to 20 yards without glasses. That was plenty enough for me. Since my cataract surgery, my left eye is 20/20 (I wear a contact lens in my right eye). I also hope the cataract in my right eye matures soon so that I can have corrective surgery in that eye and have 20/20 vision in both eyes.

Best of luck,

Dave
I have a cataract in my left eye but surgery would not help in my case. I was born with it and it has caused my eye to develop poorly, I have been told the eye itself doesn't not have sight even if the cataract was removed. I am 27 and starting to get glaucoma. :/
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Old 08-25-2017, 05:08 PM
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I try not to take a firm stand with regards to advice/opinions, but I have to say that this is some of the worst advice I've heard. DO NOT DO THIS!
And your advice would be...?
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:01 PM
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And your advice would be...?
Since you asked...

1. Make your home as much of a hard target as you can. How much depends on the nature of your home (apartment, small house, big house, multi-floor, etc.) and your budget. Solid-core exterior doors with good quality, deep deadbolts, hinges and locks secured with longer-than-standard screws; exterior lighting, including motion detection if possible; clear shrubs and trees from blocking the view of doors and windows (gives thieves the ability to break in without being seen); make sure windows and doors are locked; place wooden dowels in window/sliding glass door tracks to keep them from being opened from the outside; install a security system; etc. For more budget-restricted options you can get inexpensive braces that wedge between the inside of the door and the floor to make it more difficult for intruders to break in. Additional options are available if you want to seek them out. These things can make thieves/intruders decide to seek easier targets elsewhere (CPTED: Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). If intruders do decide to invade your home, these measures can slow them down and alert you of danger, possibly with enough time to put your glasses on before investigating/responding, as appropriate.

2. Come up with a plan. Without your gun, go through your home and determine potential lines of fire, especially in relation to your kids' rooms. You may be able to arrange your furniture to mitigate the risk of wall pass-throughs, but also be aware that you won't likely be able completely eliminate that risk. You may even be able to arrange your furniture such that it would make it difficult for intruders to make their way through your home without making any noise. Work out how you plan to get to your kids and possibly bring them back to your designated "safe room" (this can be your master bedroom with extra reinforcement on the door, or possibly even one of your kids' rooms). Do this process with your home well lit, in the dark, with your glasses, and without your glasses. You may identify issues that might not have occurred to you otherwise, such as placing night lights in strategic places. Give some forethought as to what you'll do if an intruder gives up (Do you hold them at gun point? Call police? Tell them to get out?); this will depend on the laws in your state. Very important: Know the laws regarding self defense and use of force in your state. Also, develop contingency plans in case your primary plan doesn't work (i.e., if your plan is in response to someone coming through your front door, have a plan in place in case someone comes in through the kitchen window). Do try to keep the plans simple and consistent; that will help make them workable under stress. Note: You can also apply this to other emergencies, such as fires.

3. Keep your gun, a fully-charged cell phone, a flashlight, and your glasses close by. If you want the option of a less-lethal tool like pepper spray (that's specifically designed for self defense), keep that handy, too. Don't rely on landlines, as clever thieves have cut phone lines before breaking in. The flashlight is necessary to help identify intruders, as well as make them visible if you need to shoot.

4. Rehearse your plan(s). Physically do whatever it is you've planned, ideally multiple times. This will help reinforce it as well as help to identify potential issues. Incorporate your tools from #3 in your rehearsals (a triple-checked unloaded gun can be used, or for improved safety you can get a plastic blue gun, toy gun, or just use your finger...*pew pew pew* ). I've put my cell phone in airplane mode and practiced dialing 911. "People don't rise to the occasion, they sink to their lowest level of training." Depending on the age of your kids, you can make it into a game to help prepare them without freaking them out. You also don't need to make a big production out of it. Spend a few minutes running through everything, maybe a couple times a week. And don't be afraid to revise something if things change, i.e. the kids get older, other changes in your life, etc.

5. Don't follow advice based on bogus internet myths. It will literally take you seconds to find out how bad an idea it is to use wasp spray for self defense. Feel free to research my advice, or any advice you get. You don't need to accept advice on face value. You may get advice that may be generally good, but may not be applicable or appropriate for your situation.

6. Don't stop learning. This applies to life in general as well as self defense.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:44 PM
Double-O-Dave Double-O-Dave is offline
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ContinentalOp:

Thank you for your enhanced answer. I did not realize that wasp/hornet spray had been made safer - I just looked at a can and see that it is now water based. In previous form, it was petroleum based, and I've seen plastic sunglass lenses melted by it. I have edited my earlier post to eliminate this erroneous and bad advice. Thank you for pointing this out, and my apologies for any confusion for my bad information.

Regards,

Dave

Last edited by Double-O-Dave; 08-25-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:05 PM
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Since you asked...

1. Make your home as much of a hard target as you can. How much depends on the nature of your home (apartment, small house, big house, multi-floor, etc.) and your budget. Solid-core exterior doors with good quality, deep deadbolts, hinges and locks secured with longer-than-standard screws; exterior lighting, including motion detection if possible; clear shrubs and trees from blocking the view of doors and windows (gives thieves the ability to break in without being seen); make sure windows and doors are locked; place wooden dowels in window/sliding glass door tracks to keep them from being opened from the outside; install a security system; etc. For more budget-restricted options you can get inexpensive braces that wedge between the inside of the door and the floor to make it more difficult for intruders to break in. Additional options are available if you want to seek them out. These things can make thieves/intruders decide to seek easier targets elsewhere (CPTED: Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). If intruders do decide to invade your home, these measures can slow them down and alert you of danger, possibly with enough time to put your glasses on before investigating/responding, as appropriate.

2. Come up with a plan. Without your gun, go through your home and determine potential lines of fire, especially in relation to your kids' rooms. You may be able to arrange your furniture to mitigate the risk of wall pass-throughs, but also be aware that you won't likely be able completely eliminate that risk. You may even be able to arrange your furniture such that it would make it difficult for intruders to make their way through your home without making any noise. Work out how you plan to get to your kids and possibly bring them back to your designated "safe room" (this can be your master bedroom with extra reinforcement on the door, or possibly even one of your kids' rooms). Do this process with your home well lit, in the dark, with your glasses, and without your glasses. You may identify issues that might not have occurred to you otherwise, such as placing night lights in strategic places. Give some forethought as to what you'll do if an intruder gives up (Do you hold them at gun point? Call police? Tell them to get out?); this will depend on the laws in your state. Very important: Know the laws regarding self defense and use of force in your state. Also, develop contingency plans in case your primary plan doesn't work (i.e., if your plan is in response to someone coming through your front door, have a plan in place in case someone comes in through the kitchen window). Do try to keep the plans simple and consistent; that will help make them workable under stress. Note: You can also apply this to other emergencies, such as fires.

3. Keep your gun, a fully-charged cell phone, a flashlight, and your glasses close by. If you want the option of a less-lethal tool like pepper spray (that's specifically designed for self defense), keep that handy, too. Don't rely on landlines, as clever thieves have cut phone lines before breaking in. The flashlight is necessary to help identify intruders, as well as make them visible if you need to shoot.

4. Rehearse your plan(s). Physically do whatever it is you've planned, ideally multiple times. This will help reinforce it as well as help to identify potential issues. Incorporate your tools from #3 in your rehearsals (a triple-checked unloaded gun can be used, or for improved safety you can get a plastic blue gun, toy gun, or just use your finger...*pew pew pew* ). I've put my cell phone in airplane mode and practiced dialing 911. "People don't rise to the occasion, they sink to their lowest level of training." Depending on the age of your kids, you can make it into a game to help prepare them without freaking them out. You also don't need to make a big production out of it. Spend a few minutes running through everything, maybe a couple times a week. And don't be afraid to revise something if things change, i.e. the kids get older, other changes in your life, etc.

5. Don't follow advice based on bogus internet myths. It will literally take you seconds to find out how bad an idea it is to use wasp spray for self defense. Feel free to research my advice, or any advice you get. You don't need to accept advice on face value. You may get advice that may be generally good, but may not be applicable or appropriate for your situation.

6. Don't stop learning. This applies to life in general as well as self defense.
Thank you for the advice, I have done a few of the little things already (like having a night light in every room), I also have a habit of rechecking locks before I go to sleep. I already have wedges in the windows and sliding glass door too. One of the nice things about my house is all the bedrooms are in a hallway that, if I stand at the end of the hallway, I will block an intruder from getting to any family members.
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:42 PM
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Trial, and error what works for one may not work for you. I would suggest buying a training gun to safely get accustomed to your choice of carry. You will have to keep in mind deployment of your firearm when needed. Certain types of carry have distinct advantages, but also disadvantages. You have to try out, and find what works best for you. A firearm you cannot get to without going through gymnastics is like having no firearm at all.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:48 AM
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IWB holster or belly band depending on dress mode
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:36 PM
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I gave my wife as many options as possible. She always open carries when possible, that solves a lot of problems with access. She bought a CC purse for her BUG, but she got tired of the constant vigilance that entails. Smaller bug, and pocket holster has replaced purse carry. I also bought her a kydex neck holster for the Black Widow, and she likes that also. But she went through a lot of guns, and holsters to find what she likes.

Pocket carry, and purse carry have the same distinct advantage. A person can have their hand on their gun without raising alarm, making draw much faster. The purse carry demands constant attention to the security of the purse though. Pocket carry is a problem for certain clothes on a lady, with some guns there will be a bulge.

IWB, and appendix while more comfortable, it takes more to deploy than pocket, or purse. It could result in charges if the gun is accessed before an incident takes place. Pull your shirt up, and grab your gun will probably result in a police detention if you are not justified to shoot. Most unarmed women put their hands in their pocket, or purse, and nobody thinks anything of it. So a woman can walk through the parking lot, where a lot of attacks happen, with her hand on her gun.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:39 PM
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I think women do have some advantages as far as concealment goes. Of course for men, wearing one size larger is generally not a problem. Try suggesting that to a women might be dangerous. Tips for Someone Just Starting to CC?
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Old 08-26-2017, 03:21 PM
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To the OP - if you are an NRA member or have access to the current American Rifleman magazine, there is an article about a small sample of women and handguns. However, nothing about carry methods, but it sounds as though the project is an ongoing matter.
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Old 08-27-2017, 05:33 PM
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To the OP - if you are an NRA member or have access to the current American Rifleman magazine, there is an article about a small sample of women and handguns. However, nothing about carry methods, but it sounds as though the project is an ongoing matter.
That article was...well, very poor. Even at a glance, it had all the bias of a a gunrag splayed out. They only brought two revolvers to try, and when it came time to rank the handguns from best to worst, the biggest advertisers came first!
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:03 AM
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The best thing you can do is attend defensive training. This should be your first priority. Attend NRA Basic Pistol for safety and background info. Attend Mas Ayoob's MAG-20 Classroom ASAP (20 hours of lecture only) or MAG-40 (lecture plus range time). Attend any two day defensive pistol class that covers mindset, manipulation and tactics if you do not take MAG-40. After that, attend Craig Douglas/shivworks.com ECQC. At this point, you have been exposed to all major skills that you need to handle a criminal encounter. Look at going to Roger's Shooting School for some serious range time. Repeat as frequently as possible. A good knifing course is always a good idea.

Second, buy a gun belt. It should have a steel core. I tried one with a kydex core but it broke down too fast. I really like Bigfoot Gun Belts 14 ounce thickness belts. The belt will save your back.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:49 AM
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The best thing you can do is attend defensive training. This should be your first priority. Attend NRA Basic Pistol for safety and background info. Attend Mas Ayoob's MAG-20 Classroom ASAP (20 hours of lecture only) or MAG-40 (lecture plus range time). Attend any two day defensive pistol class that covers mindset, manipulation and tactics if you do not take MAG-40. After that, attend Craig Douglas/shivworks.com ECQC. At this point, you have been exposed to all major skills that you need to handle a criminal encounter. Look at going to Roger's Shooting School for some serious range time. Repeat as frequently as possible. A good knifing course is always a good idea.

Second, buy a gun belt. It should have a steel core. I tried one with a kydex core but it broke down too fast. I really like Bigfoot Gun Belts 14 ounce thickness belts. The belt will save your back.
While we're on the subject of training, I'd also suggest taking a trauma course, one geared for the needs of gun carriers. Dark Angel Medical offers a highly recommended course, and they travel to different places so you may be able to find a course near you. I carry one of their mini-pocket kits in an ankle holster.

I disagree on the need for a steel-core gun belt. A good gun belt is the best choice, but for most people/guns, a good double-layer leather gun belt is more than sufficient. I have a 1.5" bullhide belt from Beltman and it worked very well when carrying my 3" 65, which is not a lightweight gun. Some people like the nylon-type belts, such as the Wilderness Instructor belts and those work well for them. Personally, I prefer the leather belts. But if you want the extra reinforcement, that's fine, and some people may benefit from it depending on the gun carried and/or their body type; just don't think it's a necessity.
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  #44  
Old 09-05-2017, 02:04 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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The best thing you can do is attend defensive training. This should be your first priority. Attend NRA Basic Pistol for safety and background info. Attend Mas Ayoob's MAG-20 Classroom ASAP (20 hours of lecture only) or MAG-40 (lecture plus range time). Attend any two day defensive pistol class that covers mindset, manipulation and tactics if you do not take MAG-40. After that, attend Craig Douglas/shivworks.com ECQC. At this point, you have been exposed to all major skills that you need to handle a criminal encounter. Look at going to Roger's Shooting School for some serious range time. Repeat as frequently as possible. A good knifing course is always a good idea.
That's a lot of expensive training for a mother with two young kids to undertake and I don't view it as a necessity. And ECQC is pretty physically intense and I don't recall ever seeing a woman involved and can't imagine any except a select few having an interest in it.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:11 PM
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That's a lot of expensive training for a mother with two young kids to undertake and I don't view it as a necessity. And ECQC is pretty physically intense and I don't recall ever seeing a woman involved and can't imagine any except a select few having an interest in it.
That's a good point. While I think training of the kind mentioned, as well as the medical training I posted about, is a good thing to pursue, not everyone has the resources to do that. One has to do the best they can with the resources they have, even if it's limited to library books, online resources, and/or YouTube videos from good sources (which, admittedly, can be difficult to determine at times).
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:23 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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That's a lot of expensive training for a mother with two young kids to undertake and I don't view it as a necessity. And ECQC is pretty physically intense and I don't recall ever seeing a woman involved and can't imagine any except a select few having an interest in it.
I've read quite a few of your posts over the last couple years, here and on a couple other forums. I think you have some interesting ideas when it comes to armed self defense, but I'm not picking up your drift when it comes to civilian chp holders.

My paraphrase would be - ECQC is a critical SD skill, but maybe not. A concealed hammer revolver is the best choice choice for most civilians, but maybe not. I think I saw somewhere you recommended Krav Maga Level 1 as a necessary skill along with FoF training. I think I saw Shivworks Managing Unknown Contacts in there somewhere too.

Trying to consolidate this into one spot if you wouldn't mind. What skills do you think would be the minimum skills for a run of the mill chp holder to be successful defending themselves in a violent attack?
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:02 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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I've read quite a few of your posts over the last couple years, here and on a couple other forums. I think you have some interesting ideas when it comes to armed self defense, but I'm not picking up your drift when it comes to civilian chp holders.

My paraphrase would be - ECQC is a critical SD skill, but maybe not. A concealed hammer revolver is the best choice choice for most civilians, but maybe not. I think I saw somewhere you recommended Krav Maga Level 1 as a necessary skill along with FoF training. I think I saw Shivworks Managing Unknown Contacts in there somewhere too.

Trying to consolidate this into one spot if you wouldn't mind. What skills do you think would be the minimum skills for a run of the mill chp holder to be successful defending themselves in a violent attack?

Considering how common it is for people with absolutely no training to successfully defend themselves, I see no benefit in trying to quantify minimum requirements...The Training Industry’s Dirty Little Secret

Beyond that for people who want to be as prepared as they can be, I truly don't think there is a one size fits all answer for every person or for every type of defense scenario.

Civilians who conceal carry are a very diverse group often living in very different circumstances. Training must be tailored to the individual and effective responses will be dictated by the specific details of the situation at hand. Since there are so many variables, there are no absolutes.

In the context of integrated, comprehensive self-defense, an elderly woman will want and require a much different overall approach to self-defense training and actual response than a young, strong man. Just the legal aspects alone have a significant impact on appropriate responses since an elderly individual can resort to using lethal force much more freely due to disparity of force issues.

A gun is not always or even often the solution to the wide array of personal defense scenarios an armed civilian is likely to encounter, but for some severly physically limited individuals, it actually might be the only option. There are many nuances to consider, so the focus of training will vary between different individuals. I have referred to certain skills or training as vital, crucial or mandatory on occasion, but more in the sense of using hyperbole to draw attention to an area of self-defense I feel may be ignored or overlooked. To give specific recommendations for someone, I would need more specific details about that individual.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2017, 01:18 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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Considering how common it is for people with absolutely no training to successfully defend themselves, I see no benefit in trying to quantify minimum requirements...The Training Industry’s Dirty Little Secret

Beyond that for people who want to be as prepared as they can be, I truly don't think there is a one size fits all answer for every person or for every type of defense scenario.

Civilians who conceal carry are a very diverse group often living in very different circumstances. Training must be tailored to the individual and effective responses will be dictated by the specific details of the situation at hand. Since there are so many variables, there are no absolutes.

In the context of integrated, comprehensive self-defense, an elderly woman will want and require a much different overall approach to self-defense training and actual response than a young, strong man. Just the legal aspects alone have a significant impact on appropriate responses since an elderly individual can resort to using lethal force much more freely due to disparity of force issues.

A gun is not always or even often the solution to the wide array of personal defense scenarios an armed civilian is likely to encounter, but for some severly physically limited individuals, it actually might be the only option. There are many nuances to consider, so the focus of training will vary between different individuals. I have referred to certain skills or training as vital, crucial or mandatory on occasion, but more in the sense of using hyperbole to draw attention to an area of self-defense I feel may be ignored or overlooked. To give specific recommendations for someone, I would need more specific details about that individual.
Great article. Thx.
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  #49  
Old 09-06-2017, 11:31 PM
MP1SG MP1SG is offline
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Whatever you get, I suggest you carry it unloaded around the house until you get used to it.
WHY would you suggest her to carry an UNLOADED gun??
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