I had a medium size (10-15 pound) raccoon show up on my property yesterday with obvious signs of distemper. It got into the yard where I keep my pet goats, chickens, and ducks, so I was forced to shoot the sick thing.

It was standing up and slowly walking. I normally EDC an old Colt Detective Special loaded with Remington factory 158 grain soft lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoints, which is supposed to be the old "FBI load." Using that snub-nose from about 4 feet away, I shot it once just above the left front shoulder, meaning center chest. It did not react at all to this shot--just kept walking as if nothing happened. So I shot it again in the same general area. This time it moved its head towards the wound like it had been bitten by something. However, it did not drop, nor did it seem to be in any obvious distress.

So then I shot it in the head near the ear, and that obviously worked--it rolled over onto its back, convulsing, and died within 20 seconds.

I'm still trying to figure out what, if anything, this experience means. I fully expected a .38 +P FBI load to the chest of a raccoon would kill it promptly or at least "stop" it. And if one shot didn't do it, then two would. Yet that didn't happen. And yes, I know for certain that I hit where I described---so I'm wasn't missing the thing.

OK. So maybe that's not the right place to shoot a raccoon. Maybe a raccoon with distemper isn't going to respond like a normal animal to being shot. I'm not a hunter, so for all I know raccoons are super-tough animals and this is a typical experience. Maybe I would have obtained the same result with a different caliber of pistol.

I have to say I'm not impressed with this performance. Next time I think I'll use a .45 ACP or a .357 Magnum.

Thoughts or comments?

It sounds like it was hit multiple times in vital areas. Did you have the impression the bullets stayed in the body or passed through? If they deposited all their energy into it that is not a ringing endorsement of their effectiveness.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

So your making judgements based on a single incident?

Guess what? No ammo is 100% effective, even if it hits vital areas. Not even .50BMG.

I'd rather rely on knowing that the FBI load has been successful in stopping violent attackers in several incidents than its failure to stop a diseased racoon. I'd also rely on knowing that any ammo can fail and doing my best to be prepared if that were to happen in a self defense encounter.

But that's just me.

I just re-read your post. Which load did you use? LSWC or FBI load? They're not the same thing.

I would not call your experience atypical. It is entirely possible the first shot to the raccoon would have eventually proven fatal. Even shot clean though the heart, it is not all that unlikely the animal might have continued for another fifteen or twenty seconds without showing any signs of distress until just keeling over. Killing living creatures can exhibit exceedingly varied results. Aside from destroying the central nervous system, a high neck or spine shot nothing is a "sure" stop.

My first hand experience with the FBI load out of a snubbie is limited to one incident. I shot a male pitbull once face-on in the chest with the round out of my Colt DS. The dog jumped once, did a 360 in place and then dropped dead. Maybe the raccoons medical problems contrtibuted to the issue. Maybe it was just excrement occurs. It is still a good load. Also, as noted be before the FBI load was as HP-SWC.

...the way to instant lights out is a brain shot...second best is lowering the blood pressure to zero via heart shot or major vessels close to it...a lot of game animals run a long ways with fatal wounds...some miscreants kill after being fatally wounded an example being the 1986 Miami FBI shoot out...

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A Country Boy Can Survive

This reminds me of my raccoon story from around 1985 or so. We carried 586 revolvers. What was common on animal calls was to slip out the duty ammo and slide in a wadcutter round. In a very urban area with houses 10 feet apart there was a raccoon in a garden that had been injured, probably from being hit by a car. But, he was testy. So I slipped in one wadcutter - that ought to do it, took aim at his head, and missed - hitting him in the body. Now he was really pissed. It is summertime and kids are out playing and I have just made the situation potentially worse. The coon scrambled under a car in a neighbors garage. With rakes and other garden tools I shooed him out, right into another garage. In the meantime, I slipped in a couple more wadcutters. We went garage to garage about three houses up from where we started. It was starting to get dark. He must have tired from the chase and finally gave me a target in the middle of a backyard, where I was finally able to put him down. The sound of the shot alerted the resident of the home I ended up at, and I could see the silhouette of a very pregnant lady coming down the stairs. Not wanting her to go into labor at the sight of the now bloodied raccoon, I was able to keep her from coming out into the yard. After this "mishap" I always put a couple extra wadcutters in the gun. Prior to that, I never had to use more than one wadcutter to put down an injured small animal like a raccoon or dog.

Apologies to the OP for the slight drift...

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Tony

Sounds like a rabid coon to me. I have had to kill several around my place.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

You kept shooting to solve the problem. Good job!
You appear to have marksmanship skills sufficient to make headshots under pressure. Good job!
Your ammunition didn't work as expected. That is a bit unnerving with forty percent of it expended. It's a .38 +P out of a short barrel. You can't expect the hand of God to pop out of the barrel and smite the target. Take a look at the lucky gunner article and find a bit of enlightenment on bullet expansion.
If you had a choice of weapons ahead of the shooting then you made a very poor decision. I would have responded with a 12 gauge and buckshot if I had a choice. I almost always choose a long gun for deliberate killing. If you responded with what you had on hand, then you got the job done effectively and gained some valuable experience.

I once shot a suspected rabid raccoon with a 20gauge loaded with #6 shot. The result was one pissed off animal. I did not hesitate to follow up with a 3" #3 Buck as it started to turn toward me. Bring enough gun and don't hesitate to use it.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

It wasn't a bang flop,THIS TIME. Had the same bullet have been the head or a CNS shot it most likely would have been. I think you are well armed for coons, just go with the head shot next time.

At the City I worked the Animal Control Officer brought a Racoon in to be put down. My friend a part time Officer shot it with his 45. It took Three shots before the Racoon quit trying to get out of the slip noose. They are plenty tuff to put down.

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Two Handguns every day

I lived in the 'burbs of JAX Fl., came home one night and a racoon was eating the cat food I had out for a semi-feral cat that had adopted the family. I shooed him off the porch twice and the second time he came back growling and showing teeth. I went in the house and got a 3" 36 loaded w/ LSWC and from 6' away shot him in the chest. He reacted w/ screaming and rolling around in the hedge then took off,down the sidewalk and across the driveway. There was a Blood trail but I lost it after he went under a neighbor's fence. Next morning I found a piece of shoulder blade about the size of my thumbnail. I checked w/ neighbor's within a block radius and,no one had found or smelled a corpse. Bull raccoons are tough birds. Head shots are the ONLY solution.

My thoughts are that a .22 rifle shot to the head will dispatch most any critter in north America short of a bear or moose. I've taken down more than one coon in such a way, they just curl up in a ball and twitch.

I think any of us who have hunted have had the unpleasant experience of firing a killing shot into a game animal and then have to look for it because it took off running. It is far more satisfying when the animals are DRT - dead right there. Firing a 150 or 180 grain .308 into a whitetail buck and then have to figure out where it went will make you wonder.....but when you find it then you know - wild animals are just tough that way.

Then again, I have no idea why raccoons think it is a good idea to enter my backyard when my dogs are out there. Since the mid-1990s the score is dogs 19, raccoons 0 - and last night was number 19 and my two dogs ripped it open this time. That was different.....and somewhat less than pleasant. But I digress.....

Good shooting! Sick animals are a serious problem.

My F-I-L used 2 rounds of the old 200 gr RN "Super Police" load from a Cobra to put down an opossum. Once watched two men I knew could shoot put a full box of .22 LR into a porcupine. Heard each round hit. Ran out of ammo. New morning the porky was gone from the tree. Never found him. Have also seen the quills dampen a .22 Special (WRF) round enough to prevent penetration. But also a 145 gr Silvertip .357 drop one without a quiver with one body shot.

As someone else has said: nothing is 100%. Final score: SmithSwede 1, Racoon 0.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

You are absolutely correct how tough a animal can be without a properly placed shot. I hunted coons for years when I was younger. One of my hunting buddies was really a poor shot and we would tease him after several shots on a treed coon if he didn't get it done soon it would just climb down and beg to finished off. A coon can do some serious damage to dogs if they are inexperienced and don't work as a team. I only had one dog that could take a coon by itself and had the scars to prove it knew how.

Don't feel bad, my buddy was standing on his porch when he shot a good-sized groundhog in the flower bed with a 1917 Smith. It was almost straight down and through his spine, between the shoulders. Dead right there! What was surprising was when I picked up the carcass, the flattened out bullet was laying on top of the mulch. A .45 caliber, 200 grain Speer "flying ashtray" factory load from a yellow "Lawman" plastic box.

Raccoons can take some serious punishment, a few years ago, I had a rash of sick ones on the property. Shot them with everything from a 45 auto to a 22 mag, and a couple with a 243, and even a 3006. Head shots were lights out, but one big male, that was just staggering about, took a 85 gr sierra 243 round, just sort of kept staggering. The 22 mag head shots usually ended very quick.

I was always surprised how much an animal can take before they go down, I've seen deer heart lung shot run 900 yards(measured) before it dropped. One thing, I figured out is the vitals aren't in the same area as a human, I left shoulder/center chest shot may not be a kill shot on a raccoon. I had a NYSP friend shoot a black bear over 13 times in the head and the darn thing still chased him around his patrol car. One thing for sure good thing that raccoon wasn't armed it sounds like he had plenty of time to return fire.

Raccoons are very tough. The one you shot may have also had CNS issues from distemper. All that said, I have shot a number of animals with cast semi wadcutters in revolvers ranging from .357 to .45 Colt. I guess I cast them wrong or something but they never seemed to kill very effectively. I have wondered how my experiences and the information in this thread applies to dealing with drugged up humans. I hope that I have my 590A1 handy if I have to find out.

With deer I've found that a double lung shot brings them down quicker than anything other than a spine or head shot.

Next time if you use a 357 then you will be saying WHAAAAT and what is that ringing sound. A 9mm is plenty bad enough on the ears but a 357 just plan on losing a good bit of your hearing for could be a long time. I quit carrying 357 because of that and the over penetration.

Use a shotgun with 8 shot 00 buck. If that don't put it down then run like fire lapping at your britches.

A friend shot a dog broadside chest with a 22 rifle and the dog went to howling. I told him take a head shot and put the dog out of its pain. Stupid inhumane action on his part. He shouldn't have shot the dog in the first place.

Having had to dispatch many raccoons during my LEO career, I can tell you this. They are very tough ones to kill. What you described is common with them. You need a good solid head shot and that is no guarantee. Not unusual at all.

Thanks for the replies.

For the record, I was shooting Remington factory .38 Special +P loads, the soft lead semi-wadcutter hollow-point bullets. (My original post made it sound like they were non-hollow-point semi-wadcutters.)

I'm an old Bullseye shooter, and shoot revolvers a lot---I wasn't worried about accuracy. But frankly, that's exactly what bothers me. My theory has always been that many or most "failure to stop" incidents amount to poor shot placement, and that if you focus on hitting the right spot with a good round like .38 FBI it will do the job. And yet that's exactly what didn't happen when my single "adversary" was a little raccoon and I'm under no stress or danger. It took 50% of my capacity to kill the thing.

Was the weapon a choice poor? Maybe. I didn't give it much thought---there was a contractor I was expecting to show up any minute, and I didn't want the noise and drama of shooting a long-gun if he were to show up. Didn't want to go back to the house to get a long-gun. I just assumed that my daily CHL piece would be more than adequate for a raccoon.

I'm still not sure what conclusion to draw from this. From the stories above, it sounds like sometimes you have a "failure" even with 20 gauge shotguns or center-fire rifle shots. So I'm not sure that a .45 or .357 would have made a difference.

If the headshot is the guaranteed way to proceed, and works even with a .22, then I might be better off with an accurate .22 rifle or 6" .22 revolver. Don't mess around with body shots--just shot at head from the beginning.

I watched a raccoon take a 12 gauge with 6 shot from less than 20 feet. It was obviously in distress (and blind, I would guess) but in no way was it mortally wounded. One .44 Mag finished him, but without that he was walking away.

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Because of the metric system?

Folks who haven't shot many critters are often surprised that they don't react the way the shooter imagines they will.

Shot placement is the key here.

You are right it's not like in the movies.....

On my knees crawling through a blackberry thicket, foot of snow, one arm in a cast. My younger days, was after a snowshoe hare I had clipped with my .22 Frontier. Slipping over a small log, low and behold there's this mad masked bandit in the same tunnel, unwilling to yield the right of way. Popped him with the last three in the Colt , madder, pulled my SA .30 carbine , took two more rounds of 110gr. soft point to make him quit lookin' at me. Tough ..... ? coon skin cap with lead weighed 31lbs Tough...

Cousin used to trap them in Massachusetts (leg trap). Would dispatch them with Uncle's 38 special to the head. They were a pest in the garden, no pelts or anything like that, just wanted them gone. Don't remember any of them putting up a fuss after the first shot, but I was a kid then and didn't really want to watch in the first place. Edgar was a tough old cousin...

It's been my experience that nothing with flesh and blood stops instantly unless the electrical system is crashed. Any living creature can and has continued to be able to move and pretty well at times when body shots are made. The creature can be "dead" but it can still function for some time. Small animals like a coon will not stop any bullet I know of. It will almost instantly pass through. If a major bone is broken, it may be disabled somewhat but unless the brain or spinal column is struck solidly, things still work and function. It takes a bit to bleed out.

Bottom line is that every shooting is a situation unto itself. That's why it's important to be ready to keep shooting. Just because the creature falls down most of the time sure doesn't guarantee it's gonna happen every time!

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So long ... Ken

I have an old garage with a dirt floor. I went out there and found one of the rabid coons. I had my EDC .38 special Colt Agent in my pocket, but the coon was standing in front of a 5 gallon can of gasoline. I went back to the house and got the Ruger 10/22. It was loaded with Remington .22 LR hollow points. The coon had moved to a back corner. Three shots put him down at about 15 feet.

Another one was on the front porch. It only took 2 shots from the 10/22.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

My on duty shootings were with the FBI +P; one with a Colt DS 2" and the other a four inch Model 15 S&W. It did drop the bad guy but it took more than one round and shot placement was center mass. One shot stops are few and far between.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Those 13 shots were probably on the head, not in it. Black bear skull seems like a bunch of shallow angles that make for ricochets.

[QUOTE=SmithSwede;139718322]I had a medium size (10-15 pound) raccoon show up on my property yesterday with obvious signs of distemper. It got into the yard where I keep my pet goats, chickens, and ducks, so I was forced to shoot the sick thing.

It was standing up and slowly walking. I normally EDC an old Colt Detective Special loaded with Remington factory 158 grain soft lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoints, which is supposed to be the old "FBI load." Using that snub-nose from about 4 feet away, I shot it once just above the left front shoulder, meaning center chest. It did not react at all to this shot--just kept walking as if nothing happened. So I shot it again in the same general area. This time it moved its head towards the wound like it had been bitten by something. However, it did not drop, nor did it seem to be in any obvious distress.

So then I shot it in the head near the ear, and that obviously worked--it rolled over onto its back, convulsing, and died within 20 seconds.

I'm still trying to figure out what, if anything, this experience means. I fully expected a .38 +P FBI load to the chest of a raccoon would kill it promptly or at least "stop" it. And if one shot didn't do it, then two would. Yet that didn't happen. And yes, I know for certain that I hit where I described---so I'm wasn't missing the thing.

OK. So maybe that's not the right place to shoot a raccoon. Maybe a raccoon with distemper isn't going to respond like a normal animal to being shot. I'm not a hunter, so for all I know raccoons are super-tough animals and this is a typical experience. Maybe I would have obtained the same result with a different caliber of pistol.

I have to say I'm not impressed with this performance. Next time I think I'll use a .45 ACP or a .357 Magnum.

Thoughts or comments?

The distemper, or whatever may have slowed down the reaction to the shots, but more likely the coon's body was not large enough to offer the resistance to the bullet to get it to open up properly.
Also, those bullets are going to have to travel a little bit before expanding in any kind of tissue, and in your case, the bullet may have been almost all the way through the body before that started happenning.

Hi
I live next to a river and a lot of open fields the raccoons come in to my back yard at night. I put up a light next to my dish where I feed my cats.
I started shooting them at 30 yards from by back widow with a 22 with hollow points i knew i hit them in the head or neck but they ran away and I would find them about 100 yards away. I got tired of them running away so I went to my 223 with 50 gain hollow points, since I started using them I have not had one run away. They are had to kill it you use the wrong ammo. My count this year is 10 that did not run away. I use a head shot or a neck shot they do not move after they are hit.
Jim

I agree with the over- penetration idea. Smaller animals, but bunny rabbits and ground squirrels WILL still be moving after .44 special and 45 ACP hardcast thru the body.
44 magnums with 180 JHCs.... not so much. LOL.
Yup. Head shots on those little beasts.

I suspect it probably just poked a hole as well and I also agree they are tough little animals. I use an AR.

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K & N S&W revolvers

I was a kid at the time and I was pretty fast with that pump gun so it didn't suffer from my stupidity for long.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

Are you sure you don't mean rabies instead of distemper?

My opinion is that it most likely means that if you can't make a one shot kill on a raccoon from four feet away, you need lots more practice with your gun, because I don't believe this was the gun's fault or the fault of the load. Sorry, but that's just how I see it.

And besides, my question would be if you were only four feet away, why wouldn't you try for a head shot in the first place? I'm a little short guy, okay? But four feet away would be only fourteen inches past my extended right arm. I'd have been almost on top of the coon.

Animals are not like humans in that they do not know they have been shot. Which is why most people shot stop, the rest stop when they can no longer keep going. I have shot snakes in half, and they still were alive, and capable of biting.

My air rifle can drop a squirrel with one shot. Routinely. But it still takes shot placement.

As for dogs and raccoons, I do think that either of my dogs on their own, or their predecessors, would have gotten pretty beat up fighting a raccoon alone. But when they team up it is way easier for them because the coon can only fight the dog in front of it. The one that gets behind it can and does inflict the real damage. I have seen it live so I know and it is pretty dramatic, believe me, because once your sweet pet dog that nuzzles you and licks your face gets started on a raccoon it's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde!!!!

And except for one time when there were a few scratches none of my dogs have ever exhibited any signs of being in a fight.

And this relates to shooting a raccoon on the ground from four feet away with a .38 Special revolver because...?

So you expect a 10-15 lb. critter to offer enough resistance to cause the 158-SWC-HP to upset, expand, etc? Unrealistic at best. Under the conditions you have described I would expect any handgun bullet to zip straight through the critter, and unless a major artery was severed or the heart was penetrated I would expect exactly the results you have described.

A .22 rimfire to the head would probably be far more effective.

You don't generally get enough velocity out of a sub-4" barrel to get the FBI load to expand quickly. For non+P .38 snubbies, I've gone to the Winchester 130 grain Train & Defend HP ammo. For +P .38's I use the Speer 135 grain "Short Barrel" ammo.

My wife killed 2 coyotes in the back yard with 2 shots from her Model 681 with the Speer "Short Barrel" .38 +P ammo, one standing at 20 yards, the other running at 25 yards.

YMMV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I have been reading a good bit about a full wadcutter as a woods/target/defense load. I wonder if it would have been more effective in the situation.

I've been thinking about full wadcutters as well. Not hard to reload some full power wad loads.

I shot a bull elk one time with a 30:06 180-Gr Winchester silvertip.
Hit him right behind the shoulder. He just kept running. But about
50 yards he laid down and died.

We should think seriously about the almost unanimous opinion that
target should be "center of mass" for self defense. An agressor, hit
center of mass (heart), just like the elk, can continue for 15 or 20
seconds. Enough time to kill.

Jim Cirillo, who put down 19 bad guys, said he only saw 2 one-shot-
stops. He said even accurate heart shots were not instant stoppers.
Bob Stasch, a Chicago Police Sergeant and veteran of 14 gun fights,
said he had only experienced 1 one-shot-stop.

I have not been in a lot of gun fights myself, so I learn as much as I
can from those with credibility like Cirillo and Stasch. The NRA tells us
there are about 2 million incidents each year where people use a gun
for self defense. They only need to shoot in about 4% of those incidents.

When shots are necessary, about two-thirds of that 4% stop voluntarily.
Hit or not hit, they don't want to get shot at again.

The remaining third of the 4% is our main problem. When "TSHTF"
we need STOPPING POWER. Only hits to the brain or spinal cord will
stop the attack instantly.

How do you hit a moving target the size of the brain? PRACTICE!

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In Omnia Paratus

Coming home one night late driving my 06 Chevy 3/4 ton crew cab with a fifth wheel hitch and a 40 gallon aux fuel tank in the bed I saw a big coon come running out towards me. His head hit the nerf bar on the driver side. It rung like a bell. Then the truck jumped up as I ran over him with the back tire. I turned around and went back. The coon was gone. That was one tough coon.
I bet he woke up the next morning thinking "man I feel like I've been hit by a truck".
I think if I run into a rabid coon I'm going to try and get back in the house for a bigger gun than my little J frame. If I can.

Jerry Clower taught me at a young age that coons are though.