No carry work?

[nanney1]

How do you deal with a place of work that does not allow cc? The big question is that the place of work is where you most need to carry?...

[cgt4570]

"Tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6". Do they have metal detectors? Risking loss of life or loss of job is a choice many of us have to make every day.

[silversnake]

Originally Posted by nanney1

How do you deal with a place of work that does not allow cc? The big question is that the place of work is where you most need to carry?...

Quit and find a workplace that respects your right to self defense.

[jdh]

One word, School.

[dubshooter]

At my place of work, I feel the need to carry a gun to keep me safe.

Luckily, my employer provides me a few to carry. Couple in the car, one on me, and I take a spare in my pocket.

[Genetically Swiss]

I work in a Federal building, no firearms or knives with blades over 2”. Not in the building or the grounds which includes the parking lots. Metal detectors, x-rays and armed guards in the lobby we all must pass through to get to our offices. The Federal building I work in includes a superior court, IRS, VA, FBI, Marshals service and Department of Energy.


GS

[nanney1]

Originally Posted by jdh

One word, School.

Correct. No metal detectors.

[nanney1]

Our policy is that permitted CC can keep a fiream in their car. It has to be in a locked case.

[Rpg]

Originally Posted by nanney1

How do you deal with a place of work that does not allow cc? The big question is that the place of work is where you most need to carry?...

Look for a different job.

When you find a new job, then quit the job you have.

Do not quit before finding a new job.

[Ivan the Butcher]

In Ohio, the last set of CCW updates allows to keep a loaded CCW in the car. That is a huge improvement over what we had before!!!!

Ivan

[Smoke]

To make a long story really short, I respect my employer's right to tell me that I can't carry a firearm on my person on the clock. I DO NOT recognize my employer's right to tell me what I can have in my car unless I'm using it for company business on the clock.

I'm currently working an unarmed position so for me to have a firearm on my person would be a violation of company policy as well as city ordinance. The company has no policy against leaving a firearm in your vehicle that I'm aware of and I'm not going to ask them about it.

When I worked for HSS the policy for unarmed guards was that you couldn't have a firearm on Client property without written authorization from the client AND HSS IOW no firearms even in your car on the clock. I ignored it. My car my rules

When I worked for G4S the written firearms policy really only covered what you could and couldn't do with their gun. As far as personal Firearms it was really non-existent. I actually had a couple supervisors put me on unarmed positions and tell me if I wanted to bring a gun it would be okay. I didn't say a word but I knew that if anything happened with that firearm if they would hang me out to dry and say they never told me I could have it.

So like I said unless you're paying me to carry a gun at work or you specifically give me a written authorization to carry a gun at work I'm not carrying a gun at work but my car is my car and unless you're paying me to use it for company business what's in it is none of your business
__________________

[wingriderz]

Only you can decide what's best for you. I personally dealt with employers that had a no firearm policy for years. These employers left myself and staff at great risk.I carried every day . They never ever had a clue. I always used the don't ask don't tell method. If the question of guns came up I used the " Guns " aren't those things dangerous ??.Be safe and smart.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by nanney1

How do you deal with a place of work that does not allow cc? The big question is that the place of work is where you most need to carry?...

Every place I've ever worked made me carry . . .

[murphydog]

I would say it depends on the level of risk, and the penalty involved. If you attend school in a low threat environment (yes, I know you can't always be sure), you may want to consider a less than lethal and permissible method such as pepper spray. Depending on your location, the consequence of carrying may range from "please go secure that in your car" to "you're expelled, don't ever come back and by the way the police are on the way to arrest you", so you need to take that into account. Good luck in your decision.

[Old cop]

I worked for the Federal gov’t after retiring from law enforcement and carrying a gun was a termination offense. As a GS14 w/a good job that I enjoyed it would have been foolish to violate that policy when I was busy working on a second retirement. The armed guards in my building were all retireed cops and told me, unofficially, they did not care if I carried but they liked their jobs too. Traveling was a big part of what I did and the whole airport thing was too much for me to figure out, and I was officially on the clock then too. I’ve been fully retired since ‘05 and carried all the time since then.

[Arik]

How do I deal with it? I don't! My job doesn't care so I carry but I've worked plenty of places where guns weren't allowed. There's nothing to deal with, it's not constantly on my mind. I just do my job and not concerned with what may or may not happen

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[RGVshooter]

Originally Posted by nanney1

How do you deal with a place of work that does not allow cc? The big question is that the place of work is where you most need to carry?...

You can always quit & become a police officer.

[Jimmyjones]

Told my boss, "IF" I was carrying, you wouldn't know it, unless I used it, and if I used it, you'd be glad I had it.

[TX-Dennis]

I guess it depends on how much you like your job. I cannot carry at work. I respect that rule. I've been with the same company 32 years, so I guess I must like it. I've only wished I was armed once - during an attempted armed robbery. A guy walked up to the pharmacy,pointed a pistol, and demanded oxycontin. He did not get any. The pharmacy tech and pharmacist both ducked behind the counter. The doors were securely locked barring him from entry, and he just walked away rather than trying to climb over. He was quickly apprehended by law enforcement, so the story has a happy ending.

One department manager regularly carried in her purse. She made a mistake and showed it to the wrong person who outed her. She was immediately terminated and arrested. Although she had claimed to have a license to carry she did not, thus the arrest.

[Mister X]

There are many ways to look at this issue. Some people frequently and loudly proclaim they won't go anyplace they are not allowed to carry. I honestly find such rigid thinking rather ridiculous and negatively impacting your quality of life unnecessarily.

I wouldn't want to be a law enforcement officer without having a firearm, but working in a school is an entirely different matter. There is an old saying that shouldn't go anywhere or do anything armed that you wouldn't unarmed and it's pretty sound advice. If there is a school in the United States where shootings are actually a relatively frequent occurence, I would highly recommend not working there, but that isn't the case AFAIK anywhere and the odds of being involved in a school shooting are absolutely astronomically low.

Sure, you never know and why some insist on being armed 24/7 including while in the shower, but I think their insistence to constantly be armed probably has more to do with things like politics, hobby and their psyche than it does any realistic practical need for self-protection. If these same people are so vigilante and supposedly concerned with their personal safety, then why do they drive a car. The odds of being involved in a civilian defense shooting are miniscule compared with your chances of being in a fatal car accident, but yet they all still choose to drive.

Do as you wish, but sometimes you just have to live your life and not let irrational fears and thinking rule it.

Do you carry religiously? You may not be as safe as you believe. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by TX-Dennis

One department manager regularly carried in her purse. She made a mistake and showed it to the wrong person who outed her. She was immediately terminated and arrested. Although she had claimed to have a license to carry she did not, thus the arrest.

I say this a lot but if you choose to carry against company policy Absolutely No One that you work with can know about it because sooner or later (even just by accident) they'll out you.

They people I work with are nice enough but they're not people I chose to be part of my circle. I don't tell them my personal business. I don't even mention that I own guns and if the topic comes up I ignore it.

[Old cop]

When our agency was wrestling with the idea of assigning officers to the schools I was sent to a meeting w/the school board. In typical naive fashion they wanted a cop in every school, but w/o their gun. I told them that was a deal breaker, I would NOT assign any officer anywhere absent ALL of their equipment. Fortunately the police chief backed me. It still amazes me how out of touch w/reality some people are.

[Genetically Swiss]

My position is conditional upon being able to maintain a very high security clearance. I always obey the law (always have) and will do nothing to jeopardize my position. YMMV.

GS

[cmort666]

You have to judge the nature and immediacy of the threat.

During the first Gulf War, I was the Facility Security Officer (clearance processing, document custodian, access control, security training, etc.) of a classified NASA contractor in Cleveland.

Shortly after the war started I was in the men's room around the corner from my office. Somebody came in and announced that everybody needed to leave the basement immediately.

Since the lab across the hall was building satellite hardware and dealt with hazardous materials, I figured there was a hazmat spill.

Arriving in the lobby, I encountered the entire company. Jokingly, I asked somebody I knew if it was a bomb threat. He answered, "Yes."

It turned out that my boss [for security] had been aware of a SERIES of bomb threats, of which he had neglected to notify me.

Having previously rejected my strong suggestion that the automatic unlocking of the employee door be suspended for the duration, my [idiot, Klansman] boss ordered everyone into the lobby... and ordered them to stay there. Having at least two braincells to rub together, I immediately perceived the target rich environment which this twit had created.

Later, I discovered that the fiasco had been precipitated by a bomb threat call to an engineer in the basement. The bomb was allegedly in his desk. The recipient immediately reported the threat, whereupon David Duke told him to LOOK IN HIS DESK FOR THE BOMB. The engineer told Duke where to go and announced that he was leaving for home forthwith.

The next day, I started carrying a briefcase to work. It contained a Series 70 Colt, several spare magazines and a ballistic vest. At the same time, I explained the situation to my boss for IT and told him that if anything happened, to come to my office in the basement... which sat behind a vault door.

At the time, not only were firearms banned in the facility, Ohio didn't have citizen concealed carry.

I decided that, faced with a tangible threat compounded by gross incompetence of management, my life (and those of others) was more important than either company policy or the Ohio Revised Code.

Nobody else can make such a decision for you.

PS - The employee door continued to unlock automatically for the entire duration of the War.
PPS - David Duke ordered me to cease cooperation with the FBI on an investigation of an employee who was an organizer for the Iraqi Baath Party.

[ISCS Yoda]

Do you carry religiously? You may not be as safe as you believe. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

Excellent commentary! All true. Nothing is worse than complacency.

=================================

It is very difficult for me to give advice to anyone about what to do with respect to a company policy forbidding firearms. I wrote my present company policy so you can guess that I have a firearm with me every day, as do two others. Other places that I worked either had no specific policy or none that I was aware of and I carried every day.

One place I worked had a specific ban and I carried anyway. My call, my choice, my risk. I could never advise anyone else to do that.

If you work where there are metal detectors then, again, you don't even have a choice.

It's like on those rare instances when I have to go to the local courthouse. I leave my gun in my car. Metal detectors = no choice.

Then, there is one place, maybe two, that I am aware of that search everyone who comes through the door and there are metal detectors. But if you flash your carry license there is a separate door, no metal detector, just cut around the line and meander in. I like that one.

[nachogrande]

How much value is your job vs your life. I didn't CC in a hospital, because I could have lost my license to practice along with the job. Too many chances for an accidental exposure, or a Pt grabbing me, or just a hug, or a brush up against someone. Doing house calls in bad neighborhoods, or in an office type setting YOU BET. There will always be a chance of discovery. Like the old saying: if you can't afford to lose it, don't place the bet. YOUR DECISION, good luck with it.

[gwpercle]

Start your own business, you get to be the boss and make all the rules.
At my business the employee's can open , conceal or not carry at all.
I'm the boss and that's my rule.
Gary
Small Business Owner

[Mals9]

My company has a no firearms policy. Twenty minutes ago my boss was showing me his carry firearm and holster.

Mals

[Mister X]

Originally Posted by nachogrande

How much value is your job vs your life.

How valuable is carrying a gun vs risking losing your job might be a better way of wording it. I imagine getting caught carrying a handgun in a school would probably carry a pretty heavy penalty and it would likely prove difficult to get another job in a school if fired for such an offense. The old "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" line is short sighted. I don't want either one. Getting killed obviously sucks, but so does spending any substantial time behind bars.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Mister X

The old "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" line is short sighted. I don't want either one. Getting killed obviously sucks, but so does spending any substantial time behind bars.

It depends upon the credibility and the immediacy of the threat.

Would you rather be killed than arrested?

I've seen many people get out of jail, many of whom deserved to be there for the rest of their lives.

I've only seen Christopher Lee get out of his grave, and that was make believe.

When there's a quantifiable threat and those whose duty it is to mitigate that threat are only facilitating that threat, I'm not going to die for somebody else's degenerate "values".

[oneounceload]

So like I said unless you're paying me to carry a gun at work or you specifically give me a written authorization to carry a gun at work I'm not carrying a gun at work but my car is my car and unless you're paying me to use it for company business what's in it is none of your business

Here in Florida, an employer has to let you leave your gun in your car in the employee parking lot - there are a few exceptions, such as power plants (they fall under HS)

As others have stated, either find a new job, or find a new job in another state or become your own boss in your own business.

[Mister X]

Originally Posted by cmort666

It depends upon the credibility and the immediacy of the threat.

Would you rather be killed than arrested?

I've seen many people get out of jail, many of whom deserved to be there for the rest of their lives.

I've only seen Christopher Lee get out of his grave, and that was make believe.

When there's a quantifiable threat and those whose duty it is to mitigate that threat are only facilitating that threat, I'm not going to die for somebody else's degenerate "values".

If you are fairly certain there is going to be armed violence or a good chance of it at a particular place, don't go there. If the OP's school is that dangerous for some reason, I would recommend looking for another job.

[Ozark Marine]

Or become a kung fu expert.
Looked for: cannot be seen.
Listened for: cannot be heard.
Touched: cannot be felt.
Young grasshopper Kane never needed a gun, job, food, water or house to dwell in.
And he always walked into bad places.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Mister X

If you are fairly certain there is going to be armed violence or a good chance of it at a particular place, don't go there. If the OP's school is that dangerous for some reason, I would recommend looking for another job.

In my case:

1. There was a known, NAMED threat.
2. There was a pattern of threats.
3. Management was FACILITATING the danger.
4. There was ZERO expectation of being "protected" by authorities.
5. I like eating food and living indoors. You can't do that without a paycheck.

As far as "get another job" goes, fast forward to 2009 and the recession. Between the day I was laid off and a week after my unemployment benefits ran out, and I got the worst job I've EVER had, I received exactly ONE employment offer, a scam commission sales job selling financial instruments. Jobs are sometimes in short supply. Since 2009, they've been in VERY short supply.

Telling people, "You can get shot or you can be homeless" doesn't buy you much credibility.

It's one thing to tell somebody not to go to a bar known for criminal activity and violence. It's quite another to tell somebody to QUIT a job, disqualify oneself for unemployment, and be homeless.

The first law is survival. The ORC comes a distant second.

[jdh]

Originally Posted by nanney1

Correct. No metal detectors.

The installation of which has been discussed in the district.

[Mister X]

Originally Posted by cmort666

In my case:[list=1][*]There was a known, NAMED threat.[*]There was a pattern of threats.[*]Management was FACILITATING the danger.[*]There was ZERO expectation of being "protected" by authorities.

My comments were directed to OP and his particular situation. From my understanding, he works in a school(maybe a teacher?) and did not make any mention that he was under increased risk. If he is teacher working in high risk environment for some odd reason, it shouldn't too hard to find a better job.

In your case, those are some very vague statements so I have absolutely no clue. Was somebody threatening to beat you up at work or something? Maybe go into greater detail about what was going on.

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by cmort666

In my case:

1. There was a known, NAMED threat.
2. There was a pattern of threats.
3. Management was FACILITATING the danger.
4. There was ZERO expectation of being "protected" by authorities.
5. I like eating food and living indoors. You can't do that without a paycheck.

As far as "get another job" goes, fast forward to 2009 and the recession. Between the day I was laid off and a week after my unemployment benefits ran out, and I got the worst job I've EVER had, I received exactly ONE employment offer, a scam commission sales job selling financial instruments. Jobs are sometimes in short supply. Since 2009, they've been in VERY short supply.

Telling people, "You can get shot or you can be homeless" doesn't buy you much credibility.

It's one thing to tell somebody not to go to a bar known for criminal activity and violence. It's quite another to tell somebody to QUIT a job, disqualify oneself for unemployment, and be homeless.

The first law is survival. The ORC comes a distant second.

Sounds like you need to find a job in another place/state and get out of there then. Advocating breaking the law usually isn't tolerated ..

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by oneounceload

Sounds like you need to find a job in another place/state and get out of there then. Advocating breaking the law usually isn't tolerated ..

And I would have ridden to this imaginary job on a unicorn?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Mister X

My comments were directed to OP and his particular situation. From my understanding, he works in a school(maybe a teacher?) and did not make any mention that he was under increased risk. If he is teacher working in high risk environment for some odd reason, it shouldn't too hard to find a better job.

In your case, those are some very vague statements so I have absolutely no clue. Was somebody threatening to beat you up at work or something? Maybe go into greater detail about what was going on.

Somebody (probably an Iraqi agent) was threatening to KILL... EVERYONE.

And management was doing everything possible to facilitate that.

I have no duty to die or be homeless.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[American1776]

Originally Posted by Mister X

There are many ways to look at this issue. Some people frequently and loudly proclaim they won't go anyplace they are not allowed to carry. I honestly find such rigid thinking rather ridiculous and negatively impacting your quality of life unnecessarily.

I wouldn't want to be a law enforcement officer without having a firearm, but working in a school is an entirely different matter. There is an old saying that shouldn't go anywhere or do anything armed that you wouldn't unarmed and it's pretty sound advice. If there is a school in the United States where shootings are actually a relatively frequent occurence, I would highly recommend not working there, but that isn't the case AFAIK anywhere and the odds of being involved in a school shooting are absolutely astronomically low.

Sure, you never know and why some insist on being armed 24/7 including while in the shower, but I think their insistence to constantly be armed probably has more to do with things like politics, hobby and their psyche than it does any realistic practical need for self-protection. If these same people are so vigilante and supposedly concerned with their personal safety, then why do they drive a car. The odds of being involved in a civilian defense shooting are miniscule compared with your chances of being in a fatal car accident, but yet they all still choose to drive.

Do as you wish, but sometimes you just have to live your life and not let irrational fears and thinking rule it.

Do you carry religiously? You may not be as safe as you believe. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

That Grant Cunningham article deserves it's own thread. It really changed how I think about how I carry and how I view personal security. EXCELLENT

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by cmort666

And I would have ridden to this imaginary job on a unicorn?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

You saying you have no job skills or car to be able to go somewhere else?

I have no duty to die or be homeless.

You also have no right to break the law or the rights of your chosen employer. You CHOOSE to stay there and work there.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by oneounceload

You saying you have no job skills or car to be able to go somewhere else?



You also have no right to break the law or the rights of your chosen employer. You CHOOSE to stay there and work there.

Job skills and a car do you no good when there's no job to which to go... especially when you've disqualified yourself for unemployment.

I try to obey the law... except when it would put me on the street... or get me killed.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Muss Muggins]

I don't know how to post those GIF's where somebody is eating popcorn. But I would . . .

[ContinentalOp]

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

I don't know how to post those GIF's where somebody is eating popcorn. But I would . . .

Here you go...

[smoothshooter]

What's so unusual about that?

I'll bet 90% of employers probibit CC inside the workplace, and many won't even allow firearms on the property.

The places that allow CC at the place of work are pretty rare.

Some, however, don't really have a policy on it one way or the other until some problem comes up. ( Don't ask/don't tell )

It is almost inevitable that as a company grows, they make more workplace rules, and banning firearms is usually right at the top of the list.

[Old TexMex]

The good news is : I’m expected to carry.
The bad news is: there’s a reason for that.

[stevewonderful]

Our lives come from God. So does our right to defend them.
There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion..

[Srruger762]

I have a boss that lets me carry at work, the ones that don't carry at our work place are glad some of us do. We have even talk about if something would happen what to do and where to go if possible. I listen to our local dispatch at work all the time
( broadcastify.com ) you'd be really surprised on what goes on in our area, allot people just don't even have a clue of everything that happening.

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by cmort666

Job skills and a car do you no good when there's no job to which to go... especially when you've disqualified yourself for unemployment.

I try to obey the law... except when it would put me on the street... or get me killed.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

REALLY? So, it's OK to break the law and the contract of employment with your employer when YOU feel it's OK? Sorry, if those rules were in place and I was your boss, you would be fired with extreme prejudice, not for rehire...........

Don't come on here looking for justification of your illegal activity. Try going out of your comfort zone and maybe you have to drive to another town........ back in the 80s when jobs actually WERE hard to find, I ran into a lot fo folks who thought driving 20 miles for a job was too hard and they might as well stay on unemployment

I have ZERO sympathy for that mindset. I moved from NYC to ATL to 4 places in TX, then CO, then ND, then NV - all inside 6 years

because that's where the jobs were............get a clue

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by oneounceload

REALLY? So, it's OK to break the law and the contract of employment with your employer when YOU feel it's OK?

It absolutely is when my life, and maybe those of others are at risk.

Clearly the ORC and an employment contract trump human life in your view.

It's pretty easy for somebody with no interest at risk to pose the choice of homelessness or potential violent death to somebody about whom they couldn't care less whether they lived or died.

When you offer to be my personal bodyguard or to pay my bills, THEN you get a vote.