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Old 08-28-2017, 11:43 PM
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Default S&W 640/60, LCR .357, Taurus 605

"Bob" (a pseudonym which will protect him from relentless ridicule should he choose the wrong revolver), is considering these options for his first concealed carry weapon. He has fired all four, and is mostly interested in reliability and longer term issues with these four options. He is committed to .357 (even though we all know .38 spl is more than adequate), and I have agreed not to disavow him if he chooses poorly. What say you impartial members of the SMITH AND WESSON 640 FORUM.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:47 PM
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LOL, what can I say ?
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:44 AM
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You can tell Bob I said pick anything other than the Taurus.

While I know some people have them and never have a problem that wasn't the case with the one I had. Mine went back to Taurus three times for repairs under their lifetime warranty. When it came back the last time I promptly got rid of it.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:05 AM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
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Haven't owned or shot a Taurus 605, but have owned a Taurus. Not again if there's another choice.

"Bob" needs to shoot the 640 and LCR and see which he prefers. I chose the 640 although I was tempted by the LCR in .327 Federal Magnum (I know, it's not .357, but I liked the idea of 6 vs 5 in a concealed hammer snub).
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:32 AM
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I have an LCR 357 and like it.

It weighs about 17 oz empty.

He can pocket carry it with less weight than the 640 or 60.

To my thinking, the LCR 357 is the best magnum snub.

The 340/360 are so light, they are difficult and painful to shoot.

The 640 can be heavy if you carry all day.

The 357 LCR is just right.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:18 AM
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I've had them all. Never had a problem with any of them. I ended up liking the Smith's best. It is a personal choice. I pick a lightweight for the pocket and save the heavies for the waistband. But, some pockets can handle heavy and the lightweight of corse can do waist band duty. This took me about 40 years.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:26 AM
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If it were my choice it would be the 640.

I belt carry 99.999999% of the time, so the extra weight of steel over aluminum wouldn't be a big issue. If I knew I was going to be primarily carrying it in a pocket or ankle holster, I'd go with the 642.

For concealed carry revolvers I prefer either the enclosed hammer of the Centennials or the shrouded hammer of the Bodyguards. If I were to get a 60 I would have the hammer bobbed and converted to DAO. If I got a Bodyguard I would most likely have it converted to DAO, too, so Centennials win out since they're already DAO.

I never cared for the trigger on the LCR. Yes, it's light and smooth, but not enough "oomph" on the trigger return for my tastes. I prefer the S&W trigger return, even if it is heavier and not-as-smooth.

People have been happy with their Taurus revolvers. People have been unhappy with their Taurus revolvers. QC seems to be really hit-or-miss, with "miss" seeming more common. Customer service also seems to be a mixed bag. For these reasons, I would pass on Taurus.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
If it were my choice it would be the 640.

I belt carry 99.999999% of the time, so the extra weight of steel over aluminum wouldn't be a big issue. If I knew I was going to be primarily carrying it in a pocket or ankle holster, I'd go with the 642.

For concealed carry revolvers I prefer either the enclosed hammer of the Centennials or the shrouded hammer of the Bodyguards. If I were to get a 60 I would have the hammer bobbed and converted to DAO. If I got a Bodyguard I would most likely have it converted to DAO, too, so Centennials win out since they're already DAO.

I never cared for the trigger on the LCR. Yes, it's light and smooth, but not enough "oomph" on the trigger return for my tastes. I prefer the S&W trigger return, even if it is heavier and not-as-smooth.

People have been happy with their Taurus revolvers. People have been unhappy with their Taurus revolvers. QC seems to be really hit-or-miss, with "miss" seeming more common. Customer service also seems to be a mixed bag. For these reasons, I would pass on Taurus.
That was my only complaint of the LCR357. I didn't like the trigger return.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:53 AM
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I would suggest one of the Smith and Wesson revolvers in his list. Which one is dependent on how "BOB" intends to carry the firearm.


If "BOB" is gong to pocket carry, there is no better choice than the Model 640. The Centennial design has no hammer to snag on the draw and no large openings for stuff to work their way into. You might gather from the above photograph that I am a Huge fan of the Centennial design, especially for purse/pocket carry.

If the firearm is to be carried in an ankle or belt holster, I would choose the model 60. While a self defense situation where life is on the line is not going to offer time to cock and carefully aim the firearm, this feature is handy in other areas than SD. Such as out in the woods having to dispatch a snake or some other threatening animal. I carried a Model 60 as my ankle BUG almost everyday since 1980. In 1985 I switched to the Chief's Special Target and in 1996 I switched again to the J-Magnum Chiefs Special

Since long term reliability is one of "BOBs" stated goals, I would stay away from the plastic revolvers. They have not been on the market long enough to show us how they hold up over time. The 357 LCR was only introduced 8 or 9 years ago. Stainless Steel Smith and Wesson snub nosed revolvers have over half a century of ownership and use behind them, they have earned their reputation for a long service life

I have no problems staking my life on a Taurus revolver. I just prefer the fit, finish and lines of the Smith and Wessons. I even own and carry several Taurus snubbies, but those are in configurations that Smith and Wesson has never offered. Like this Titanium 45 Long Colt wheelgun or 41 Magnums



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Old 08-29-2017, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1970 View Post
You can tell Bob I said pick anything other than the Taurus.

While I know some people have them and never have a problem that wasn't the case with the one I had. Mine went back to Taurus three times for repairs under their lifetime warranty. When it came back the last time I promptly got rid of it.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
This about sums it up.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:14 AM
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The 640 & 60 are too heavy to pocket carry, IMO, so Bob needs to plan on getting a good belt and holster. A good, sturdy 1-1/4" dress-style belt will be sufficient to handle either of these. As for Bob's other "choices," no comment.

If Bob is planning on pocket carry, he either better be a big dude, wear sloppily fitting clothes, or look to something less powerful, smaller, and lighter - probably an autoloader in .380.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haywood View Post
That was my only complaint of the LCR357. I didn't like the trigger return.
I had a problem with that on my LCR 9mm.

Someone on the Ruger forum commented that sometimes the LCRs are shipped from the factory dry.

A couple drops of oil solved the problem.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1970 View Post
You can tell Bob I said pick anything other than the Taurus.

While I know some people have them and never have a problem that wasn't the case with the one I had. Mine went back to Taurus three times for repairs under their lifetime warranty. When it came back the last time I promptly got rid of it.

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
Hmmm? Three times back for repairs, then sold it. That sounds awfully familiar to many S&W buyers too. Maybe you shouldn't be so biased, because the quality difference isn't as large as you may think.

I think all of Bob's options are viable, but as always, properly assess each example to assure quality. Won't have any issues if that is done. As for choice, it all depends on what your needs are, and only you know that.

When it comes to 357mag snubbies, I would personally go with a larger framed gun though. The compact frames aren't my cup of tea for magnum calibers. A K frame or similar would be the smallest I chose.

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Old 08-29-2017, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
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Hmmm? Three times back for repairs, then sold it. That sounds awfully familiar to many S&W buyers too. Maybe you shouldn't be so biased, because the quality difference isn't as large as you may think.

I will admit you can get lemons from any manufacturer from time to time. The experience I had with my first (and only) Taurus revolver just left a bad taste so I have just swore off of owning another one. I figure the price difference between a Taurus and something like a S&W or Ruger really isn't all that great and I've personally never had issues with any of the ones I've owned so I just stick with those.

I wasn't here to bash Taurus but, since the OP asked for opinions, I gave mine based off of personal experience.

Bob can buy whatever he likes regardless of my opinion.

Whatever he ends up with I wish him the best and may it suit his needs and make him happy.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:02 PM
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I have owned an LCR and still own a 640. 640 (j frames in general) fit my hand better. LCR wasn't bad. But wasn't great.

Give me a steel j frame any day. I'm not picky on the model
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:03 PM
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Oh, especially when you can get a 640 trade in for the price of a Taurus 605.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:03 PM
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At risk of engendering the same ridicule as Bob might receive - I have a 60, 640 and an LCR - although it's a .22 - and I recommend an LCR. The .357 LCR has a steel frame so it is/would be heavier than my LCR .22. I would suggest he at least test fire an LCR - maybe at a rental range. I really like the trigger on the LCR - and I believe the .22 trigger is heavier than the .38/.357's. I frequently pocket my LCR because the factory grip and trigger feel just right. It won't win any beauty contests - but it'll keep on tickin' - and Ruger does a great job of supporting their handguns after sale ... should anything go wrong with it. I, too, will have to say Taurus is out of the question...
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:12 PM
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A 640 for belt wear and 442 for jeans pocket if 'Bob" want to pocket carry.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomkinsSP View Post
He has fired all four, and is mostly interested in reliability and longer term issues with these four options. He is committed to .357.
Snub nose CCW revolver + long term reliability + .357 = Smith & Wesson IMO
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
At risk of engendering the same ridicule as Bob might receive - I have a 60, 640 and an LCR - although it's a .22 - and I recommend an LCR. The .357 LCR has a steel frame so it is/would be heavier than my LCR .22. I would suggest he at least test fire an LCR - maybe at a rental range. I really like the trigger on the LCR - and I believe the .22 trigger is heavier than the .38/.357's. I frequently pocket my LCR because the factory grip and trigger feel just right. It won't win any beauty contests - but it'll keep on tickin' - and Ruger does a great job of supporting their handguns after sale ... should anything go wrong with it. I, too, will have to say Taurus is out of the question...
No ridicule here, someone who is very special to me has LCRs in .22LR and .357. She shoots off a couple boxes of .22s to practice, and then a couple cylinders of .38 SPL PDX+p which is her carry ammo.
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:56 PM
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As others have said, it depends on how Bob wants to carry. I have both a 640 and a 60. I carry the 640 most of the time because it fits into my pocket and the extra weight doesn't bother me.

My 60 is the Pro Series model with a 3" barrel, that when I carry it needs to be in a holster strong side. The 640 is just easier for me. BMMV (Bob's mileage may vary)!
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Old 08-29-2017, 06:05 PM
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I'm for the 640. I have one from the early 1990s (ANIB) and just went digging for one I've had for over 20 years. It is a Performance Center in the Paxton Quigley serial number range, but wearing Uncle Mike's boot grips (as did some of my other J-frames of the day) which is exactly how I got it.

This 640 Performance Center also comes with a 9mm cylinder, moon clips, a shell puller hook (to pull the spend shells from the moon clips) a S&W aluminum head screwdriver and all the papers.

Unfortunately, this one does not have the S&W Product Code label on the box. The PCs of this era had labels with wimpy adhesion that were placed on the curvature of the box / side. They started falling off in short order, months or a few years after purchase, new.

As I found the labels becoming undone, I used 2" Scotch Heavy Duty Clear packing tape to adhere them back to the top of the box or just placed the label under the foam, inside the box.

Of the set of PCs of the era, luckily only 2 labels fell off that I have not yet found or recovered. This is one of them. I cannot find the box end-label anywhere.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
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What say you impartial members of the SMITH AND WESSON 640 FORUM.
Damn... you had me going there for a minute. I had to check and see if there actually was a S&W 640 Forum.
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:31 AM
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I would spring for either the 640 Pro (I absolutely think that it's worth it over the base model), or hunt around for a Bodyguard.

The Taurus is out of the question, due to price. Yes, you read that right. If you buy the Smith and Wesson for the right price used, you should be able to sell it for the same money. It costs you nothing to own. If you buy the Taurus new, you're going to lose money on it.

The Ruger...eh. I own a couple Ruger products, and have shot many more, but it's a rare Ruger (SP101, Security Six...and I haven't tried out a GP100) that's really in the same ballpark as a Smith.

But put it this way...the LCR was introduced in 2009. S&W introduced the I-frame revolver, the predecessor to the J, in 1903--thirteen years before Bill Ruger was born. The J-frame was introduced in...1950, I think? A year after the Ruger Standard was first sold.

When in doubt, I go with experience and a long track record.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:02 AM
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I would spring for either the 640 Pro (I absolutely think that it's worth it over the base model), or hunt around for a Bodyguard.

The Taurus is out of the question, due to price. Yes, you read that right. If you buy the Smith and Wesson for the right price used, you should be able to sell it for the same money. It costs you nothing to own. If you buy the Taurus new, you're going to lose money on it.

The Ruger...eh. I own a couple Ruger products, and have shot many more, but it's a rare Ruger (SP101, Security Six...and I haven't tried out a GP100) that's really in the same ballpark as a Smith.

But put it this way...the LCR was introduced in 2009. S&W introduced the I-frame revolver, the predecessor to the J, in 1903--thirteen years before Bill Ruger was born. The J-frame was introduced in...1950, I think? A year after the Ruger Standard was first sold.

When in doubt, I go with experience and a long track record.
So in summary old guys and thier revolvers rule. I kinda like that. Since Bob is just old enough to get his permit, and has shot my 640, which is not a PC. How is the PC different/better. Thanks.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:57 AM
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The 642 is also a winner. Works best with standard .38 Special. If you can find some old .38 Special S&W Nyclads, which seem to work well in the 642, would be to your advantage.

Somewhere in the 1990s S&W started cutting the extractor plate in a rectangular shape instead of the circular shape (which it had been since the beginning of S&W time) on most of the J-frames.

2 rectangular cuts Js were nothing but trouble for me. Both going back to S&W, one of them twice with no resolve.

The trouble with both were as such. After extraction of the shells the extractor plate did not smoothly return to the recessed position. Some variations of this had a guide pin between the chambers. No matter which variation, still had the same issue. Some other members with this same type tell me they have never had an issue. Could be I got a few of the first run with the rectangular cut extractor plate but it was enough for me never to buy another even if it was then (now) corrected.

One of these also would not rotate after the first 2 shots. You could dry fire it all day and it would be fine. Fire 2 shots and the cylinder refused to turn. (this is the one that went back to S&W twice and came back the same way).

With a hammerless revolver there is no "work around" for this issue in an emergency situation.

It's a personal preference but I prefer the circular cut out of the extractor plate. (good old fashioned circular cut, tried and true for 100+ years)
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Last edited by model3sw; 08-30-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:25 PM
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Just found a 940, 9mm, BNU-XXXX with Uncle Mike's boot grip ANIB, I think this is a Lew Horton. Anyone know more about these ?
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Old 08-30-2017, 03:45 PM
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I would choose the 640. One of the best concealed carry revolvers ever made.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomkinsSP View Post
So in summary old guys and thier revolvers rule. I kinda like that. Since Bob is just old enough to get his permit, and has shot my 640, which is not a PC. How is the PC different/better. Thanks.
The Pro Series, not the Performance Center.

The 640 Pro gets upgraded sights, a cylinder cut for moon clips, and (I believe) a trigger job.

The sights are a big upgrade. You go from a pinned ramp front and U-cut frame rear, to a real front and rear sight--dovetail-fit Tritium night sights. It's a better sight, to start, and it makes the whole gun more interesting to shoot. Good sights don't just make it easier to hit, they make it more fun to practice with.

Not to mention--since they're dovetail-fit (super-rare in a small-frame revolver), they're drift-adjustable! If you've got a decent sight pusher, you can adjust the sights on your J-frame!

The moon clip cut on the cylinder is pretty handy. It's not a cheap job to have done in the aftermarket--TK Custom will do the job for $150. It buys you not only easier reloads, but easier extraction. I would use .38 Spl +P to make extraction a cinch.

It also comes sans lock. Begging the moderators' indulgence, I consider that a feature.

There are some other things (the Pro Series as has a fluted barrel that I wish they would not have done) but those are the two meaty upgrades.

The Pro Series MSRPs for $839. The base 640 goes for $729. Even just the moonclip cut makes the Pro a steal.

The last Bud's price for the Pro was $728 (they're out of stock), and their price for the base 640 is currently at $598. So--$130 bucks.

Lucky Gunner did an okay writeup:
http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/be...40-pro-series/

And yes, at the end of the article, he says he's not giving up his LCR and thinks it's better. But that's okay, because he's wrong.
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:35 PM
gman51 gman51 is offline
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I have an LCR 357 that was my main carry for many years. I also have a 640-1 that I like looking at. I would say it is very comparable to the LCR but because it is heavier it never did replace the LCR as my main carry. I also have 2 Rossi snubs that are clones to S&W 36 but they never were used as my main carry. They actually are accurate and have nice trigger actions.
I read about the 44 spl and I bought a Charter Bull Dog which is my main carry now. I just don't care much for the 38 spl or 357 since going to the 44 spl. If I was to go back to carrying 357 it would again be the LCR.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman51 View Post
I have an LCR 357 that was my main carry for many years. I also have a 640-1 that I like looking at. I would say it is very comparable to the LCR but because it is heavier it never did replace the LCR as my main carry. I also have 2 Rossi snubs that are clones to S&W 36 but they never were used as my main carry. They actually are accurate and have nice trigger actions.
I read about the 44 spl and I bought a Charter Bull Dog which is my main carry now. I just don't care much for the 38 spl or 357 since going to the 44 spl. If I was to go back to carrying 357 it would again be the LCR.
I have restrained myself from offering opinions as to which revolver of the four listed is my choice to give "Bob" a more diverse set of opinions. (And I posted it here on the S&W M640 Forum to ensure impartiality.)

But since you didn't ask. I own two really nice steel framed .38 special Rossi's a 68 and an 88. Acurracy and shootability on par with S&W M36s, fit and finsh, nope. I used to have a Charter .44 Bulldog and a .45 Pitbull (but my son really, really liked them). I really liked that you could extract without moon clips on the Pitbull. They were not horrible shooters but were not as accurate as my .38s. Maybe that was me, maybe the loads or the particular guns. Again fit and finish not up to S&W standards.

I like holsters, shoulder or belt. In a holster the heavier guns have thier weight distributed better, and are easy enough for a big guy to conseal.
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