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Old 09-07-2017, 04:20 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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Default Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?

United States Concealed Carry Association
NRA Carry Guard

There are others. Stories from the Internet don't impress me much; they are usually advertorials at best. Personal anecdotes from this Forum will impress me much more.

Thanks.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:02 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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Look at CCW SAFE. Before signing up, I compared and contrasted most of the providers, and surprisingly, this organization has the BEST coverage at the LOWEST cost.

CCW SAFE has a great rate structure, and especially so if you are current or retired MILITARY/LEO at $99 annually.

Last edited by SRT; 09-07-2017 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:29 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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CCW Safe. 99 bucks. I will check them out! Gracias!

Any others?
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:43 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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I had done a lot of research, and personally settled with both US Law Shield and USCCA. I will explain my rationale in a few minutes. Just yesterday, Concealed Carry shared this comparison link: Self-Defense Gun Owner Insurance Programs Compared | Concealed Carry Inc...

I feel most of it is accurate, but the amount of funds available for bail under USCCA just seems to be quite low compared to what I remember.

I went with USCCA, initially, because on pension and disability on top of being a custodial dad ... I just don't have a lot of money saved for bail or a lawyer, and I have to be there for my kids. After attending a US Law Shield seminar, I opted to join US Law Shield for the legal representation at no cost as long as I am a member. The nice thing is, with US Law Shield, there is no limit on the legal fees (free as long as you are a member), and the firm in New Jersey knows the state's gun laws better than most cops and legislators.

Fortunately, I have never had to rely on the representation of either group, and hope that I never have to!
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Last edited by lrrifleman; 09-07-2017 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:07 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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I was a member of ACLDN for a few years. The only reason I'm not now is money. It's not that expensive in the big scheme of things, considering what they provide, but it's more than I can afford right now. I do plan to rejoin once I'm able.

There were a few reasons why I chose them over other options:

- They provide money up front for attorney fees*
- They provide money for bail*
- They cover members even if something other than a gun was used (empty hands, knife, stick, etc.)
- IIRC they cover members for both criminal and civil proceedings
- They provide experts to help with defense strategy
- They provide a list of affiliated attorneys, but you don't have to use them if you prefer using your own attorney
- They provide a lot of educational materials regarding legal preparations, use of force, the legal aftermath of using force, etc.

Fortunately, I've never had to use their services.

* I believe they have an initial limit on how much they'll pay as part of your membership, but you can apply for additional funds if needed.

While I haven't done it, I have heard of other people combining ACLDN with other memberships to maximize their benefits.
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:37 PM
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I purchase any insurance policy, auto-home-medical-dental-life, hoping I'll never need it. I look at self-defense insurance the same way.

If you ever experience the horror of shooting a human being in self-defense, trust me when I tell you, you'll welcome any and all help with open arms.

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Old 09-07-2017, 07:27 PM
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One of my students was arrested in connection with a shooting (didn't hit anybody), and the one lesson I got out of their experience is you want to have a local lawyer that knows local law, the prosecutors, and judges, not an out-of-state attorney. The consensus was the person would be tried and probably serve prison time, but a local attorney worked out a deal to voluntarily surrender the CHL for 3 years in return for the charges being held 3 years and not prosecuted.
I have since had this impression confirmed by Oklahoma attorneys and one prominent attorney on this forum.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:28 PM
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I've been a member of Armed Citizen' Legal Defense Network. I know the leadership there, shot many an IDPA match with them- good people and I trust them. Recommend you consider them as well in your analysis of what works best for you

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Old 09-07-2017, 07:41 PM
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Some (most) of them are "insurance" policies. You come up with the money and if acquitted, they will reimburse you (minus a deductible). I don't know about you, but I don't have thousands of dollars laying around.

CCW Safe is a "service agreement", where they pay for everything and you don't have to come up with money out of your pocket.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:06 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network

Low cost. Good folks. Excellent educational resources. Reasonable terms.

(I use it to supplement my LEOSA insurance.)
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:09 PM
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This topic seems to appear every month...a search would bring up many Threads on the subject.

Stephen Maddox was recently defended in a murder trial by CCW Safe. He was found Not Guilty on all charges. He didn't pay one cent out of his pocket for his defense. He was a CCW Safe member, as am I.

Blog

Maddox found not guilty of murder in October 2015 shooting death | The Wilson Times
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:38 AM
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I have USCCA Platinum. No out of pocket costs. The other one I suggest you look at is FLP.... Home - Fire Arms Legal
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:43 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
One of my students was arrested in connection with a shooting (didn't hit anybody), and the one lesson I got out of their experience is you want to have a local lawyer that knows local law, the prosecutors, and judges, not an out-of-state attorney. The consensus was the person would be tried and probably serve prison time, but a local attorney worked out a deal to voluntarily surrender the CHL for 3 years in return for the charges being held 3 years and not prosecuted.
I have since had this impression confirmed by Oklahoma attorneys and one prominent attorney on this forum.
I have found during 35 years of litigation that every courthouse has a series of unwritten rules (really, customs and practices), which, if violated, makes your case go badly. Out of state counsel need to co-counsel with local counsel who know those customs and practices.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:32 PM
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Did I mention.......with USCCA you can use one of their attorneys or whoever you want?? That attorney that you used for your divorce may not be the attorney that you want to defend you in a self defense situation. Do some research BEFOREhand.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:36 PM
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You really won't know until you shoot someone then it's too late when you find out they really don't offer much.

Most will pay for years and never have the need and will never really know.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:55 PM
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"Luck" is not a plan.
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:34 PM
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Here's a video about misinformation and false claims about self-defense legal services and insurance. (NOTE: The video is produced by CCW Safe)


Description:

"The firearms industry, specifically firearms ownership, concealed carry and the use of firearms for self defense is surrounded by misinformation. There is misinformation from the media, from politicians, and from special interest groups. And, unfortunately, there is misinformation within our own industry, specifically the legal services and insurance industry.

Mike Darter, Co-Founder and CEO of CCW Safe clears up some of the misinformation and false claims from others about CCW Safe.
"
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Old 09-08-2017, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
This topic seems to appear every month...a search would bring up many Threads on the subject.

Stephen Maddox was recently defended in a murder trial by CCW Safe. He was found Not Guilty on all charges. He didn't pay one cent out of his pocket for his defense. He was a CCW Safe member, as am I.

Blog

Maddox found not guilty of murder in October 2015 shooting death | The Wilson Times
If he woulda left the first time he was attacked, instead of hanging around for two more attacks, he would have been saved from all that trouble . . .
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:51 PM
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Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection? Any experience with the companies that offer concealed carry protection?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
If he woulda left the first time he was attacked, instead of hanging around for two more attacks, he would have been saved from all that trouble . . .
Hindsight is always worth a million bucks. Today he would probably agree with you. At least he got his monies worth from joining CCW Safe.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:59 PM
Bill In Texas Bill In Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
I was a member of ACLDN for a few years. The only reason I'm not now is money. It's not that expensive in the big scheme of things, considering what they provide, but it's more than I can afford right now. I do plan to rejoin once I'm able.

There were a few reasons why I chose them over other options:

- They provide money up front for attorney fees*
- They provide money for bail*
- They cover members even if something other than a gun was used (empty hands, knife, stick, etc.)
- IIRC they cover members for both criminal and civil proceedings
- They provide experts to help with defense strategy
- They provide a list of affiliated attorneys, but you don't have to use them if you prefer using your own attorney
- They provide a lot of educational materials regarding legal preparations, use of force, the legal aftermath of using force, etc.

Fortunately, I've never had to use their services.

* I believe they have an initial limit on how much they'll pay as part of your membership, but you can apply for additional funds if needed.

While I haven't done it, I have heard of other people combining ACLDN with other memberships to maximize their benefits.
This is my choice as well. I researched all of the insurance companies in the self defense arena and I liked what I saw from ACLDN the best. Hope this helps!
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:01 PM
Johnrh Johnrh is offline
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Just remember that ACLDN only covers you for "any justifiable use of force..." I take that to mean that if the case results in a ruling where the force used was not justified you have no coverage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is why I went with CCW Safe. They cover you regardless of outcome.
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnrh View Post
Just remember that ACLDN only covers you for "any justifiable use of force..." I take that to mean that if the case results in a ruling where the force used was not justified you have no coverage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. This is why I went with CCW Safe. They cover you regardless of outcome.
I believe that to be incorrect. To my understanding, once you alert them to a defensive use of force, they will send up to $25,000 to the attorney you designate to get things moving.

If further funds are required, their board members, (a handful of respected names many or most of us are familiar with), will convene and decide whether the case, (viewed in the best light for the potential defendant), rises to the level that further funds are warranted to cover the costs of a trial, expert witnesses, investigators etc.

The outcome of a trial or other legal proceeding cannot be known in advance and does not impact the decision to provide for a defense.

Funds would not need to be repaid regardless of verdict.

The following is quoted from the ACLDN site:


Quote:
What is the role of the Network's Legal Defense Fund?
The purpose of the Network’s Legal Defense Fund is to provide legal defense support to Network members after a self-defense incident. This support is supplied in two different ways.

First, the Network will forward up to $25,000 to the member’s attorney at the request of the member after a self-defense incident. This money is intended to ensure a member has legal representation immediately after an incident.

Secondly, if the member is charged with a crime or sued civilly and needs additional money for his or her legal defense, the Network provides additional funding for a vigorous defense of the member's justifiable self-defense actions. One of the purposes of the Network Advisory Board consisting of Massad Ayoob, John Farnam, Jim Fleming, Tom Givens, Emanuel Kapelsohn and Dennis Tueller is to review these cases and advise the Network leadership as to the merits of the case so an appropriate funding decision can be made. This is necessary to make sure the Network is not using the Legal Defense Fund to help defend acts that are not consistent with the Network’s mission.
Quote:
Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network

Criminal and Civil Defense

The Network pays its members’ legal expenses after self defense up front – when the attorneys, bail bonds, and other expenses need to be paid. The maximum available for any single member is one half of the total amount in the Legal Defense Fund. Currently the Fund’s balance is over ONE MILLION DOLLARS. Consequently, the Network has no arbitrary limit on how much it will assist its members, just the practical limit of one-half of the Fund, which we will discuss a bit later.
Quote:
People Who Are Considering Joining the Network Frequently Ask Us...

How solvent is the Network?

We have never operated in the red and have never incurred debt. Instead, we started the Network conservatively and always maintained a positive bank balance, with no liabilities. Since starting at zero in 2008, we have built up our Legal Defense Fund (at the time of this update, August 2017) to over $1,080,000 having drawn on it to pay in excess of $175,000 in attorney fees on behalf of fifteen members.

The Legal Defense Fund grows regularly because the Network deposits 25% of all dues into a separate account, our Legal Defense Fund, which we reserve exclusively for the legal defense of Network members. We also receive contributions to build up the Fund, and of course, 100% of these donations go into the Fund so it continues to increase, despite drawing from it on occasion to pay a member’s legal fees after a self-defense incident. Knowing how vital the Legal Defense Fund is to fulfilling our obligations to Network members, we are always happy to answer questions from our members or prospective members about the Legal Defense Fund.

How does a Network member receive financial assistance after a self-defense incident?

It all starts with a phone call, telling us that you have been involved in an incident and need immediate assistance. Since at the time of your call we do not know the particulars of the incident, on your word alone and upon request from you or your attorney we will forward up to $25,000 to the attorney of your choice to start your legal representation. If you don’t yet have an attorney, we will get to work immediately and help you find one.

Please understand that the attorney’s fee deposit is not yours. It is still the Network’s money and we expect any unused portion to be repaid to the Legal Defense Fund for the defense of other members. The reason we immediately pay a substantial retainer is to make sure our members are represented by a good, competent attorney as early as possible and throughout their interactions with the criminal justice system.

Will you help bail me out of jail?

The Network will pay a bail bond agent up to $25,000 to post bail on behalf of a member who has used force in self defense, which typically would cover a $250,000 bond. The member and his or her attorney must provide facts of the case to show the Network that their use of force had cognizable elements of self defense.

Don’t be fooled by these numbers, or a competitors’ bail numbers, either. A bail bondsman, in addition to requiring the 10% fee to guarantee that you show up to court, will ALSO require collateral to write the bond. If the judge sets bail at $250,000, you will also likely have to pledge your house, your parents’ house, your gun collection and perhaps your boat for the bail bondsman to feel comfortable writing a bond. When studying all of the post-incident support programs marketed, take the bail claims with a grain of salt, and be prepared to pledge additional collateral if you need to get bailed out of jail. Typically, the 10% fee alone will not, by it by itself, suffice.

This subject is more complex than a paragraph in benefits synopsis, so please review our full description at President's Message.

What if I’m charged with a crime?

After the initial fee deposit and the bail assistance, if you are charged with a crime and additional money is needed to pay for your legal defense, then the Network will ask your attorney for the facts of the case. We view these facts in the light most favorable to the member, of course, and if there is a reasonable self-defense component to the incident, then we grant additional money to fund that member’s legal defense. That amount of money is subject to the attorney’s estimate of the cost of the legal defense because each case is different.

How much will you pay for legal defense of a member?

The Network commits to disburse up to one half the Legal Defense Fund at any given time for the legal defense of any member charged with a crime after a legitimate act of self defense. Thus, the answer to that question is conditioned entirely upon the size of the Legal Defense Fund. Since the fund is now over $1,000,000, we could conceivably pay up to $500,000 to protect your legal rights after self defense. This is higher than any insurance reimbursement that I know of, and of course, we will pay your attorney up front.

Will you pay for experts, investigators and jury consultants?

We place no restrictions on whom your attorney can hire to assist your legal defense, and so, yes, if needed, the money can be spent on expert witnesses, investigators, jury consultants or any other reasonable service a trial team needs to put on a vigorous defense of your act of self defense. Each case is unique, and the Network will not interfere with how your attorney handles your case.

Do you assign me an attorney, and if so, whom?

One of the best parts of membership in the Network is that you get to hire your own legal team. You have complete control over your defense. We would not want it any other way. Still, a surprising number of armed citizens do not know attorneys they trust to represent them after self defense, so the Network also has a list of over 400 Network Affiliated Attorneys across the country who are willing to help our members. Additionally, we have identified experienced self-defense attorneys who can do a great job defending a member at trial. If needed, one of these experienced heavy-hitters could be hired to argue the case alongside the member’s local attorney. The bottom line? The member is free to choose whatever attorney(s) they want; that lawyer does not have to be a Network Affiliated Attorney.

Does the Network have an emergency response plan?

Yes. We call it “Boots on the Ground.” If you are a member and are involved in a self-defense incident, have been arrested and have yet to obtain counsel, the Network will immediately dispatch a representative to your location, if needed, to work with you and your family to obtain legal representation. The “Boots on the Ground” emergency contact number is my personal cell phone number. You call it and I will answer, or if I am not immediately available, I will call back as soon as I get the message. This number is on the back of all Network membership cards. It is for use outside of office hours. If you are a member and your need arises between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. (Pacific time zone), you should call the Network office at 360-978-5200.

Will you work cooperatively with other companies?

Having an insurance policy or a pre-paid legal plan does not affect the member benefits and support we extend. If you have a pre-paid legal program and choose to use them for your defense, your attorney fees will be covered by the pre-paid legal plan. We can provide money for experts, consultants, and other costs of putting on a vigorous defense.

We make one request of members: If we assist you in paying for your criminal defense, and upon acquittal, an insurance company reimburses you the money we fronted for your defense, then we expect that money to be returned to the Legal Defense Fund. We want it available to defend the next member facing charges. Any award of money to help pay for your legal defense will be conditioned upon being paid back from any insurance settlements.

I hope I never need to go to court! What other benefits come with Network membership?

First and foremost, we believe the Network’s educational component is second to none. We send all new members a 235-page book and eight educational DVDs bearing on the many facets of use of deadly force in self defense. The book and DVDs serve two important purposes. First, the Network is strongest when each member understands his or her rights and responsibilities before using deadly force in self defense.

Secondly, the tangible book and DVD disks comprise a real, permanent part of your training history, documented so that if you need to prove in court that you understood a particular concept, they can be introduced into evidence for that purpose. Listening to a podcast, or watching a presentation on the Internet is fine, but it is hard to document and is not replicable in court.

The Network also distributes a monthly online journal focused on legal issues related to self defense. It includes interviews with leading trainers, a regular column to which Network Affiliated Attorneys contribute, thought-provoking commentary by Network leadership and more. In addition to the web page version, a PDF format is also provided should the member wish to print, initial and file away any part of it to document their studies.

Closing Thoughts

The Network was formed and developed by self-defense trainers and legal experts who know and understand what exactly are the issues in self-defense legal cases. For example, Massad Ayoob, John Farnam, Tom Givens and Dennis Tueller are all part of the Network Advisory Board, as well as Attorneys James Fleming and Emanuel Kapelsohn. We are not simply a business wanting to cash in on the growing number of armed citizens, nor are we hyper-marketers who send e-mail after e-mail to prospective members with the intention of scaring them into buying their program or frivolously enticing them into joining with the offer of free guns and ammo. Nor are we the NRA or another gun rights group who view this industry as a cash cow, offering insurance to uneducated participants to bolster their bottom line. Instead, the Network is a group of conservative armed citizens, who take armed self defense with all its responsibilities very seriously. This we will continue to do as long as we are in business.
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:37 PM
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A few months ago I researched all the offerings I could find. I downloaded, printed out, and carefully read the terms and conditions of each offer. I was amazed at the loopholes that let them deny coverage for a variety of reasons. Here is an example. Let's say you have to shoot someone. You get charged with homicide. You lose the case. You have one of the policies. They all say that they will not defend if the insured is convicted of a crime. Therefore they will not pay for an appeal. They also have the right to seek reimbursement of trial costs because when you were convicted it proved your action was criminal and they do not cover criminal behavior.

There are more things like you cannot sue them for failure of coverage until they have met all their obligations under the policy. Well you would want to sue them because of a failed to meet their obligation, and you cannot because they have not exhausted their fulfillment obligation.

The I found CCW Safe. It is not an insurance policy offered and administered by insurance companies. It is a business association and there is no policy. There is a simple contract, and it has none of the loopholes the insurance companies build into their policies.

If you are going to buy into caovege I urge you to scrutinize the fine print of the agreement you be signing off on. If you can afford to get the advice of a lawyer have one review the details and advise you of the pitfalls.

For the record, I am not connected to CCW Safe in any way including having bought coverage from them. Afte r doing another statistical review I found that the likelihood of being prosecuted criminally for a shooting if you act within the law is so low that it is not worth insuring against.

If I got sued in civil court and lost the winner would be in poor shape because I was able to make myself legal damages proof. After my wife died in June of 2016 I transferred all of out assets to mu two adult children. I only onwards the clothes in mu closet and food in my pantry. My social security and military retirement pay are bullet proof ina civil action. But is I had any real exposure, I would buy CCW Safe.
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:48 PM
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I don't know how many of you read Greg Ellifritz' Active Response Training blog, but recently Greg made mention that his membership in the ACLDN was the only coverage he carries in regard to self-defense matters.

(I was already a member of ACLDN, FEDS and FLEOA before becoming aware of his participation in the ACLDN so it had no bearing on my joining. FEDS and FLEOA are for both active and retired federal LEOs and are completely separate entities from the ACLDN.)
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Last edited by blues7; 09-23-2017 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:44 PM
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Lee in Quartzsite Lee in Quartzsite is offline
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CCW Safe has an ongoing story of the Stephen Maddox case. Whether you have any commercial representation or not, it is an interesting read on what to expect in real life once you pull the trigger.

Just open: https:ccwsafe.com/blog
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Old 09-23-2017, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRT View Post
Look at CCW SAFE. Before signing up, I compared and contrasted most of the providers, and surprisingly, this organization has the BEST coverage at the LOWEST cost.

CCW SAFE has a great rate structure, and especially so if you are current or retired MILITARY/LEO at $99 annually.
A big advantage to CCW Safe is that they provide a lawyer and any needed investigators to defend you in a self defense situation. Other companies only pay your fees and You are given recommendations list of lawyers in your area. While you are trying to arrange for a lawyer, CCW Safe has one on the way.

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Old 09-23-2017, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louchia View Post
A big advantage to CCW Safe is that they provide a lawyer and any needed investigators to defend you in a self defense situation. Other companies only pay your fees and You are given recommendations list of lawyers in your area. While you are trying to arrange for a lawyer, CCW Safe has one on the way.
Not so. ACLDN will obtain an attorney for you if you haven't previously chosen one nor selected one from their list of affiliated attorneys in your area prior to the event.

You are not forced to use their attorney...you have options.

You can verify this on the site or by contacting Marty Hayes directly via email.
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Last edited by blues7; 09-23-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:59 PM
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My due diligence investigation led me to USCCA.
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:30 PM
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Blues7, I think I am right. this is from their Q and A page.
" What risk is there that Network funds may be used to defend someone who is not innocent?
Network members, by virtue of their membership, are entitled to up to $25,000 fee deposit initially paid to their lawyer after a self-defense incident, to case review by one of the Network experts and have access to contact information for Network-affiliated attorneys and expert witnesses. Additional funding for legal defense costs is made available after case review by the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network’s Advisory Board, currently comprised of Massad Ayoob, John Farnam, James Fleming, Tom Givens, Emanuel Kapelsohn and Dennis Tueller. These industry leaders generously participate in decisions about the merits of the case and help the Network guarantee that Legal Defense Funds are not used to defend acts that are not consistent with the Network’s mission. "

When you look at their Neworks Mission it doesn't say anything relevent to this.

Here is from their Members benefit page.
"Providing Legal Support When It Is Most Needed

Members who have been involved in a self-defense incident during their term of membership receive the following:

• A fee deposit of up to $25,000 paid to the member's attorney by the Network if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. This is a membership benefit; the member is not asked to repay it. The fee deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident. If requested by the member or their representative, a Network official will respond to the location to assist the member in obtaining those services.
• Benefit applicable to any justifiable use of force, whether firearms related or by other legal means of defense.
• The Network will pay a bail bond agent up to $25,000 to post bail on...."

Note the language "justifiable use of force" . To me that means if it's not justifiable then no coverage. They could have answered the question about someone who is not innocent but chose to dance all around. To me they are not very direct in their answer.

CCW Safe says specifically that they cover you regardless of whether or not it was justifiable. Oh the details of these things.

I cut and pasted the above from their website, I have no idea how to make it look like your inserts.
John

Last edited by Johnrh; 09-23-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
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CCW Safe says specifically that they cover you regardless of whether or not it was justifiable. Oh the details of these things.

John, I can only provide the ACLDN info I quoted above. Otherwise it'd be best to go to the horse and hear it out of its own mouth. They are very responsive in my experience.

But you are talking about the possible wiggle room provided by the term "justifiable use of force".

However, if you go to the Terms of Service on the CCW Safe site you'll find that many of the paragraphs deal with a "Recognized Self Defense Use of Force Incident".

Quote:
2. Member Services: In accordance with your selected level of service, if you hold a valid concealed weapon permit (or are qualified for a Provisional Membership Term), and are in legal possession of your firearm or other weapon during a Recognized Self-Defense Use of Force Incident, CCW Safe will pay all the reasonable costs to defend you against criminal charges, including pre-indictment investigation, civil suits, and administrative claims against your permit. This includes attorney’s fees for an experienced criminal defense lawyer, or civil lawyer as necessary, costs of investigation, expert witness fees, and other reasonable and necessary litigation expenses.
Quote:
3. Restrictions, Limitations, and Exclusions: CCW Safe will not provide the above services if the use of force incident is an intentional criminal act or where there is no admissible evidence of self-defense. CCW Safe will not provide the above services if, at the time of a use of force incident, you are impaired by the use of alcohol, or controlled substances, or prescribed medication that alters judgment, or are in violation of state law or regulation concerning alcohol and drug use while in the possession of a firearm.
What this means is that someone, or somebodies must make an evaluation of the incident to determine whether or not it meets the criteria for coverage and that it is a "recognized self defense use of force incident". This is no different than ACLDN and its administrator(s) evaluating whether the incident that has been reported to them meets the criteria for providing financial support going forward.

No organization is going to cover an incident they determine is outside of the parameters they have established.

I don't doubt that CCW Safe is an excellent option...much as I feel the same regarding ACLDN, its membership and those involved in its administration...but you still have to meet the standards set in their terms of service and that means that an evaluation will be made and financial and legal coverage is not guaranteed.
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  #31  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:17 AM
Johnrh Johnrh is offline
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Blue7, the thing is neither of us is 100% sure of what these programs will cover and the terms of coverage or we wouldn't be discussing it I guess. It's all legal and both have their wiggle room. My only response is that I would rather have the language of CCW Safe regarding "no admissible evidence of self defense" then "justifiable force". Who knows, maybe they say the same thing. My complaint with ACLDN when responding to the FAQ I posted above re would they defend me if I was found "not innocent" was the gobblydgook offered rather than yes or no. If you are found "not innocent" (which means guilty) then it was not justifiable hence no coverage. Why didn't they just say that?

In the end, either plan is probably about the same I guess. I am going to be away from the computer for awhile so can't respond for about 10 days and by then this will probably be a dead thread. this has been a good discussion, thanks.

John
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:08 AM
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John, I'm sorry I haven't been able to make it any clearer than I have already and this will be my last attempt.

You are, I believe, misunderstanding the coverage. They, (the companies), are not paying after the fact and no verdict of "guilty" or "not guilty" will have been rendered before their decision regarding ongoing coverage has been provided to the member.


They are either going to pay the costs of a trial, expert witnesses etc or they will have rendered a decision not to based upon the totality of the facts and evidence available from the police report and your legal representatives.

If they pay for a trial and one is subsequently found guilty, the funds expended are not owed back to the company by the member...in fact they may very well cover the costs of appeal as well.

Anyway, it's up to everyone to do their own homework and due diligence. I have done mine and am satisfied with the costs and coverages I am entitled to via the organizations I mentioned in an earlier post.
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