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Old 10-11-2017, 10:38 AM
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This happened about a mile from me last night:

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Last night I had a guy mid 20s around 5'10. Try to push his way in the front door. Got him to leave. This morning I go out to take the garbage out, and the guy is sleeping on my front porch, ran him off finally got thru to sheriffs office gave them a report said they have a officer come by. Waited for 30 minutes left for work, seen the guy on valley Blvd just pass Carlos doughnuts. Be safe people this guy is walking around town , might have a mental disability
If this happened at your house, what would you have done?
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:46 AM
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Last night.... Try to push his way in the front door....This morning .....finally got thru to sheriffs office ....
Does the sheriff's dept close at night?

What would I have done? Called the cops when it happened. Recoup some of that tax money I've been paying.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:54 AM
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In NC attempting to push one's way in the front door can get one (legally) shot. (Not saying that would be my first response...it would all depend upon the particulars.)

Someone sleeping on the yard would warrant one shout of warning to vacate, if not heeded a deputy would be summoned to remove the interloper while I maintained a visual.

Someone on the porch would be addressed through a closed window (after ensuring that I was armed). A deputy would be summoned for a report in this instance, regardless...and as complete a description of the subject and history provided. I'd rather not escalate the situation absent additional circumstances which is the reason for not going on to the porch to confront. The person would have to go by me to get off the porch and therein lies the danger of precipitating a tragic chain of events.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:55 AM
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Attempted home invasion, call the cops. Draw your firearm, if necessary.

Mentally ill folks may be a serious threat. We had a woman almost beaten to death by a whacko that broke into her home.

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Old 10-11-2017, 11:02 AM
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I would not open the door. If someone forced their way in, they would have removed all of my options.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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Also, it wouldn't hurt to get a photo on your cell phone.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
Does the sheriff's dept close at night?

What would I have done? Called the cops when it happened. Recoup some of that tax money I've been paying.
My thoughts exactly. From the quote, the guy appears a nuisance, but harmless, so obviously you canít shoot him.

Thatís one of the problems with all that macho posturing about not relying on police to protect yourself: There are a lot of situations that require more than drawing a gun. This sounds like one of those.

Iíd re-think living in an area with that kind of police response. Not to brag, but I went for a walk on July 5th in a nearby park and found a few 9mm casings; some a-hole had used the fireworks as a cover to shoot off live ammo in the middle of a neighborhood. That kind of irresponsibility really ticks me off, so I called our PDís non-emergency number along the lines of ďNothing urgent, but you might want to make a note of this...Ē. An officer chased me down at the other end of the park within five minutes to take a report and the casings. Thatís the kind of response we can routinely expect.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:25 AM
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Poor kid, you did just right, thanks! Now call the mayor and complain.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:30 AM
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It's California, maybe that poor indigent needed some sanctuary space........and here I thought EVERYONE in CA, especially rural areas, had really nice BIG dogs........

Can't get the police to show up quickly? Tell them home invasion and suspect looks like he has a gun............that usually works.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:48 AM
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Id be surprised if the home owner isn’t charged in California for failure to feed and house this poor fella.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
My thoughts exactly. From the quote, the guy appears a nuisance, but harmless, so obviously you canít shoot him.

Thatís one of the problems with all that macho posturing about not relying on police to protect yourself: There are a lot of situations that require more than drawing a gun. This sounds like one of those.

Iíd re-think living in an area with that kind of police response. Not to brag, but I went for a walk on July 5th in a nearby park and found a few 9mm casings; some a-hole had used the fireworks as a cover to shoot off live ammo in the middle of a neighborhood. That kind of irresponsibility really ticks me off, so I called our PDís non-emergency number along the lines of ďNothing urgent, but you might want to make a note of this...Ē. An officer chased me down at the other end of the park within five minutes to take a report and the casings. Thatís the kind of response we can routinely expect.
Same here. And I work where I live. Which has its perks and disadvantages. But when I call the direct line to dispatch, I know who I am talking to on a first name basis. And they know my wife if she calls when Iím at work so they can get me on the horn quick.
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
My thoughts exactly. From the quote, the guy appears a nuisance, but harmless, so obviously you canít shoot him.
Harmless? How do you know? He was forcing his way into the home. Here's what CA law says:
Quote:
198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.
Regardless of what that says, I agree that some common sense needs to be applied before you just bust a cap in someone.


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Old 10-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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Someone trying to force their way into my home would've resulted in a call to 911. Chances are responding officers would've encountered the trespasser on the porch/property. I would've told them I want to file a complaint and would be willing to press charges.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
Does the sheriff's dept close at night?

What would I have done? Called the cops when it happened. Recoup some of that tax money I've been paying.
A couple of counties in Oregon were having financial problems.

Not enough Deputies during the day. None at night.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:05 PM
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Hit the panic button on my alarm and see what he dose.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:10 PM
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Would have called the PD in both instances, for the attempted forced entry, and again for the drunken trespass on the porch. I would not have opened the door or "ran him off".

Luckily, our LEO's are stationed nearby and responded in 5 minutes or less when I've called.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:23 PM
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I actually knew a gentleman who encountered a similar situation. This was perhaps 15 years ago now, and as a Korea vet he was well into his 60s. A man, later determined to be mentally ill, trespassed on his property and then began ranting loudly while trying to break into the garage, attached to the house of the older gent. Upon yelling at the would-be intruder he needed to leave, the volume of his shouting increased, after which my friend dialed the police, quickly and calmly explained the situation, and then explained that he would keep them on the line while he stepped out and again asked the man to leave. Two things to note; this was in a very rural area where a 20-30 minute emergency response is first rate. Second, when initially speaking to the authorities he explained bluntly he did not only have but was holding a loaded revolver. His next request to the man to leave was greeted by a thrown rock in response, at which time my friend raised his revolver, aimed as the man stooped to pick up another rock, and fired once, breaking his leg. The man gave up, sat down and began crying, at which time the gentleman asked him to remain seated while they waited for the police. After treatment the man went back to the mental home he had left, and there were no charges or investigation into the incident. Little was said about it, aside from the arriving officer thanking the home owner for remaining calm. Probably indicative of another era and mindset, but my friend simply responded without sarcasm that he "hoped that fellow would get better, but he sure is lucky I didn't have my shotgun handy."

Perfectly fine in one area might be attempted manslaughter or worse in another, so beyond basic safety I always encourage people to know both their local laws AND their local environment such as response times, the surrounding area, etc.

I'm happy to say my neighbor will soon celebrate his 82nd birthday.

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Old 10-11-2017, 02:29 PM
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If the guy was able to get through my 4 dogs, than he would have to get through my wife, she's probably nastier than my dogs, after that I would probably get off the couch and see what's going on. I have a few guns near by but I've been using my carbon fiber hockey sticks for self defense lately. The look people give me when i pull a 5' hockey stick out is priceless. They figure that you won't shoot them buy they know they are getting a stick over the head.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:45 PM
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A couple of counties in Oregon were having financial problems.

Not enough Deputies during the day. None at night.
Regardless of any financial problems, they weren't going to respond to the OP's call in SOCAL anyway.

Seriously though, this seems to come up often; someone posts a scenario that happened to them, but seldom is the phrase, "I immediately called the cops" used. Why? You're paying for them. That's their job. Calling provides a tremendous amount of protection for you if it should turn ugly.

Guns are a last resort; at least that's my thinking....
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:06 PM
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If the guy was able to get through my 4 dogs, than he would have to get through my wife, she's probably nastier than my dogs
Hopefully your wife doesn't read these forums.

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Old 10-11-2017, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
What would I have done? Called the cops when it happened.
Quote:
Hit the panic button on my alarm and see what he does.
Both of those are appropriate first steps.

Trying to push his way in the front door is a little off putting with respect to those first two options. If someone is trying to push his way in then someone opened the door with the guy standing there and then closed it or tried to and got it done despite the pushing. That is a dangerous scenario. Mental case sleeping on your porch calls for law enforcement and maybe an ambulance. But whilst he was pushing on the front door, that is a home invasion, you might need to be prepared to lose the pushing contest - calling law enforcement at that point might have to be your second option.

You should never open your front door to a stranger and you should never open your front door for yourself without looking first. That's just normal situational awareness. I solved that problem many years ago with a locking storm door. If I am in the house then it is locked so I can open my front door far more safely. But every house is different, and not everyone can afford that extra door.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:39 PM
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Seriously though, this seems to come up often; someone posts a scenario that happened to them, but seldom is the phrase, "I immediately called the cops" used. Why? You're paying for them. That's their job. Calling provides a tremendous amount of protection for you if it should turn ugly.

Guns are a last resort; at least that's my thinking....
Exactly. No internet commando routine here. Why give up the physical barrier of a door/wall if you don't have to. Call to police, lights on and wait. Stay ready but too many go looking for trouble when it's relatively easy to deflect.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:45 PM
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If this happened at your house, what would you have done?
PM apollo99 to send his dogs and wife over and go hide in the back bedroom with the cats. Catís show excellent judgment in dangerous situationsóRUN FOR YOUR LIFE. Then hide under the bed. Every man and cat for himself and devil take the hindmost.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:22 PM
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As long as he is outside I would call for a deputy, there is actually one that lives across the street from us, shouldn't take long to get here. If they manage to get inside through two locked storm doors then all bets are off. With two dogs, a wife that shoots pretty well and me shaking like a leaf he's in a lot of trouble.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:25 PM
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I think it depends on what you mean by "push his way in the front door." I do not live in a great neighborhood. I answer every unannounced visitor being fully armed. If he's still outside and just banging, then I'd call the cops and sit and wait and see if he makes it through before I drop him.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:08 PM
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Sounds like Kern County, lots of territory, low rural population. Not a lot of LE there.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
Seriously though, this seems to come up often; someone posts a scenario that happened to them, but seldom is the phrase, "I immediately called the cops" used. Why? You're paying for them. That's their job. Calling provides a tremendous amount of protection for you if it should turn ugly.

Guns are a last resort; at least that's my thinking....
I completely agree and that's what I would do. However, I live in an unincorporated area. The sheriff is the only LE resource I have. I've had to call them a couple times since I've lived here and the fastest response time was 30 minutes. This means we should be prepared to hunker down for a little while.

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Sounds like Kern County, lots of territory, low rural population. Not a lot of LE there.
It is indeed Kern. It's an enormous county and we have only a few deputies especially at night. There simply is no way they could respond quickly enough to protect anyone.
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Old 10-11-2017, 11:15 PM
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Default I once slept on someone's front porch

When in college a friend and I left a party late one night to go to the store for more refreshments. Smart enough not to drive but dumb enough to be out walking like that. We got tired and ended up crashing on someone's front porch. I awoke the next morning to an older gent kicking my feet telling me to run along. Sometime in the night my friend woke up and tried to get back to the party but staggered up to the wrong apartment, big complex and all the apartments looked just alike. He was kicking, screaming and beating on the door trying to get in but 3 sleeping girls in there called the cops and off he went to the crossbar hotel.

I was lucky I guess that I stayed on the porch. REALLY glad no one shot me.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:26 AM
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I completely agree and that's what I would do. However, I live in an unincorporated area. The sheriff is the only LE resource I have. I've had to call them a couple times since I've lived here and the fastest response time was 30 minutes. This means we should be prepared to hunker down for a little while.

It is indeed Kern. It's an enormous county and we have only a few deputies especially at night. There simply is no way they could respond quickly enough to protect anyone.
I live in an area quite like yours .. response time easily could be 45 minutes at night and 30 or more during the day when more deputies are available on duty ..

Well the Sheriff would have had to have been called and also an ambulance and an animal control officer possibly too .. as my GSD would have bitten the intruder multiple times if a person would try to shove their way into my home !! The intruder would have to have medical attention according to the degree and where my GSD had bitten him !! If he would have gotten past her I carry all waking hours and it would be quite possible he would be shot !!

Living in in the country several miles from a town the Sheriff's office is on SE corner of the county and I live in the NW corner of the county (33 miles) and if the officers are there or already on a call 45 minutes or more response is possible especially at night .. State Police would be an even longer wait time ..

Why wasn't the police or sheriff called on this incident in question as it happened ??
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:09 PM
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Well the Sheriff would have had to have been called and also an ambulance and an animal control officer possibly too .. as my GSD would have bitten the intruder multiple times if a person would try to shove their way into my home !!
I know exactly what you mean. They can run, but they'll just die tired:



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Why wasn't the police or sheriff called on this incident in question as it happened ??
According to the story, they tried to call, but couldn't get through. I don't know why.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:26 PM
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Doug—to drift your thread some more—did you ever get that fancy rifle shooting straight? I seem to recall you were tearing your hair out for a while.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:52 PM
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this thread is begging for this "legend".

George Phillips of Meridian Mississippi was going up to bed when his wife told him that he’d left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.

He phoned the police, who asked “Is someone in your house?” and he said no. Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available.

George said “Okay,” hung up, counted to 30, and phoned the police again. “Hello. I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don’t have to worry about them now cause I’ve just shot them all.” Then he hung up.

Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the police caught the burglars red-handed. One of the policemen said to George: “I thought you said that you’d shot them!”

George said, “I thought you said there was nobody available!”

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:36 PM
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Attempted home invasion, call the cops. Draw your firearm, if necessary.

Mentally ill folks may be a serious threat. We had a woman almost beaten to death by a whacko that broke into her home.
EXACTLY. I approach my front door with one hand on my CCW and don't open the door until I've looked out the window and identified who is out there. Forcing your way in my front door is not likely to end well.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:10 AM
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Doug—to drift your thread some more—did you ever get that fancy rifle shooting straight? I seem to recall you were tearing your hair out for a while.
The one in the picture works great. The one I had trouble with is still a problem. The company made ridiculous claims. They claimed to be able to shoot .2MOA at 800 yards. I'm struggling to get 4MOA at 100 yards.

Wanna buy it?
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:21 AM
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I know this is thread drift, but...I love that dog!
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:57 AM
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Don't open the door. Retreat behind a chokepoint. Retrieve a firearm. Call 911. Rinse and repeat in the morning.

I find it highly likely this guy was just a drunk. Pretty common thing to do when you're blacked-out--go home to the wrong house.

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Can't get the police to show up quickly? Tell them home invasion and suspect looks like he has a gun............that usually works.
So you would knowingly call in false information to 911? I believe that's a crime, aside from the questionable morality of placing officers in danger, and endangering anyone else in trouble while the officers were busy responding to your phantom gunman.
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:07 AM
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Poor fellow might have bumped his head a few times when leaving your front porch, I would think...
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:24 AM
S&WsRsweet S&WsRsweet is offline
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Trying to push your way into my home responses,1 you are very lucky response getting a few delicate raps with my ball bat beside the door ,response 2 you are very unlucky response ,you get hit with ever how many 357 mags it takes ,yes I keep a bat beside the door for the possibility that I need to use less than lethal force but I also keep a 357 at hand just in case if you are very very unlucky you would be met by my wife who would shoot ya for messing up her door she don't understand tne less than lethal concept.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:48 AM
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Throw cold water on him and call the cops and EMS. Whomever gets there first can deal with him.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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Don't open the door. Retreat behind a chokepoint. Retrieve a firearm. Call 911. Rinse and repeat in the morning.

I find it highly likely this guy was just a drunk. Pretty common thing to do when you're blacked-out--go home to the wrong house.
This is what I generally recommend. In fact, if you feel you need to answer the door with a gun in your hand, why are you answering the door?

Just because a guy is drunk doesn't mean he isn't dangerous. A drunk guy might actually assault you because he thinks you're the intruder. I'm not saying he needs to be shot, just that being drunk isn't a universal excuse/pass.



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So you would knowingly call in false information to 911?
No, I wouldn't call in false information. However, here's a true story that is not urban legend...

When my son was about 2, we lived in a different town. The neighbors about three houses down had a rottweiler. This dog was about 90lbs and would charge the fence, snarling, when any car went by. Sometimes it would get out of the fence and attack cars. I mostly rode a motorcycle and had to dodge this dog a few times. I tried talking to the owners, but they claimed they didn't speak English.

One morning as I was getting ready for work, I saw the dog and he was acting especially aggressive that day. So, I called the police. I got basically the same story as above, "We don't have an animal control officer and our other officers are busy." I told them that I understand, but I'm concerned because I have a small child and the dog is loose. They said there was nothing they could do. I said, "That's OK, I have a shotgun and I'll go take care of it" and I hung up. Two cars showed up in about three minutes and they dealt with the neighbor. They never talked to me. Yes, I did get my shotgun and was going to talk to the neighbor, but the police got there before I did.

A person should never have to do this. The police should respond to every serious request if they can. If they really were busy and couldn't help with a real situation, why were they able to show up so fast?
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:37 PM
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If they really were busy and couldn't help with a real situation, why were they able to show up so fast?
It's called prioritizing requested calls for response. Your "That's Ok, I have a shotgun and I'll go take care of it" very likely caused those two officers to be pulled off a call that had greater priority than the vicious dog you initially called in. Throwing a gun into the conversation about a problematic neighborhood dog does that.

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Old 10-13-2017, 12:57 PM
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I'd just call the cops on him.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:27 PM
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It's called prioritizing requested calls for response.
---
Throwing a gun into the conversation about a problematic neighborhood dog does that.
What bugs me is that I had to say that to get any response at all. This wasn't a case of, "We'll get to it when we're finished with this other situation." It was, "We don't have an animal control officer so, we're not going to do anything."

That is an unacceptable response to me.

Please understand, I have nothing but respect for the police, what they do and what they put up with. They deal with the dregs of society every day. I also know that they don't just sit around eating donuts and go to calls when they feel like it. I've looked at dispatch lists, they are busy, I don't deny that.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:51 PM
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198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.


This law sounds mighty clear and concise, until the aftermath and you go into court. You'd better have some good witnesses on your side.

Last edited by Dvan34; 10-13-2017 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:45 AM
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This happened about a mile from me last night:



If this happened at your house, what would you have done?
If he tried to get in my front door I would have went to my living room table and yanked my 38 revolver out of the drawer and told him to leave while my girl called the police. If he came in the house he would have caught a round or two.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:50 AM
Ducatiman916 Ducatiman916 is offline
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198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.


This law sounds mighty clear and concise, until the aftermath and you go into court. You'd better have some good witnesses on your side.
Is this in your state code? Every state has differences in rules. You make it sound like this is the rule for the whole country.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:57 AM
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Is this in your state code? Every state has differences in rules. You make it sound like this is the rule for the whole country.
That is from the California Penal Code that I posted back in post #12. It is indeed very clear that if someone is forcibly entering your home you are presumed to be in fear of great bodily injury or death.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:19 AM
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Arm myself. Call the lawman, Stand off to the side of the door. If he comes through the door after all my telling him to leave then I would feel I had no choice but to shoot. As long as he is outside and not setting fire to my house, prying on my door, is not shooting into my house then my life at that time is probably not in danger. Wait for the cops to arrive and be on the phone with the cops the whole time while I remained armed.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:21 AM
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That is from the California Penal Code that I posted back in post #12. It is indeed very clear that if someone is forcibly entering your home you are presumed to be in fear of great bodily injury or death.
I believe it's a rebutable presumption, yes? There are circumstances where a reasonable person under the same circumstances might not feel in fear for his life with someone trying to force their way into his or her home.
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:28 AM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
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I believe it's a rebutable presumption, yes? There are circumstances where a reasonable person under the same circumstances might not feel in fear for his life with someone trying to force their way into his or her home.
Could you give us an example.
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