|
|
|
07-21-2022, 09:02 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 7,681
Liked 7,378 Times in 2,511 Posts
|
|
Well enough to know how it functions, how to handle it safely, and how to break it down for routine cleaning/maintenance.
So, adequately, I would say, although I'm certain that others would disagree and may even go so far as to say that everyone ought to take a gunsmithing course and learn how to do a complete disassembly/reassembly of any gun you carry.
Alas, I'm not a wizard, nor do I see a practical necessity for in-depth knowledge of my carry guns, so to me, that which I do know is sufficient for self-defense purposes.
Can I say with all assurity that I could certainly use my firearm to successfully repel an attack or prevent myself or others in the vicinity from coming to harm? No, there are too many variables for anyone to be 100% certain in that regard, but obviously I would do everything within the realms of my capabilities to assure the safety of myself and others, which in my humble opinion is the most that anyone realistically can do in such a dire situation.
Should I fail, then oh well, I'm certain that there will plenty of folks who will analyze my every move, pinpoint where I went wrong, and come up with a solution which may help to keep themselves as well as others alive, so regardless, my best efforts will certainly save someone, somewhere, at some point in time, and that's good enough for me.
__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.
|
07-22-2022, 05:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gillette Wyoming
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 1,923
Liked 1,294 Times in 350 Posts
|
|
I shoot the gun I most often carry in USPSA matches at least once a month. during the winter months I shoot the same gun in leagues at the local range 2 nights a week.
We're getting to know each other pretty well.
|
07-22-2022, 06:05 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,653
Likes: 1,820
Liked 5,407 Times in 2,727 Posts
|
|
The only way you're going to know is to shoot at those distances with your carry ammo or a duplicate (bullet weight & velocity). Rule of thumb is that most fixed sight handguns are/used to be sighted to put the bullet about 2 inches above the top of the front sight at 25 yards with the standard weight/velocity load for the caliber. But the quality of your trigger press can affect this.
Again, rule of thumb, lighter & faster bullets will hit lower, heavier & slower bullets will hit high (except the ancient .38 Super Police 200 gr load. velocity was adjusted to keep POI the same). But, once upon a time I was gifted a few boxes of the then new Hydra-Shok 147 gr standard pressure 9mm. Most accurate load I ever shot, one ragged hole at 25 yards. The odd thing was that the center of the group was right where the white dot on the front sight was.
BTW, there's a data base of private citizen shootings. The average range is 5 yards, the extremes 2 yards and 27 yards.
|
07-22-2022, 07:58 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 1,399
Liked 3,339 Times in 1,433 Posts
|
|
This at 25 yards, double action. Dead on at 20 feet. It groups really well from a rest.
|
07-23-2022, 12:33 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ohio usa
Posts: 503
Likes: 131
Liked 117 Times in 71 Posts
|
|
[QUOTE=WR Moore;
BTW, there's a data base of private citizen shootings. The average range is 5 yards, the extremes 2 yards and 27 yards.[/QUOTE]
That average just went up with the 40 yard shots in the recent mall shooting.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-23-2022, 09:35 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 252
Likes: 1,019
Liked 442 Times in 161 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old TexMex
Interesting to have seen that some members of this little theoretical chat don’t consider live people as obstructions.
|
I suspect these are the same people that talk about suppressive fire
|
07-23-2022, 09:41 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 803
Liked 3,060 Times in 1,013 Posts
|
|
Let's see a show of hands. When you read the topic how many of you had "This is my rifle, this is my gun..." go though your mind?
|
07-23-2022, 09:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 6,950
Likes: 4,430
Liked 10,068 Times in 3,689 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3
So, for all those who only practice to use their pistols at what they consider justifiable close range self defense situations, would you shoot Nikolas Cruz (and hit him, shooting Pro-actively) 30 yards down a school hallway, or outside the school, or would you run up to him to get within a range where you are competent first?
Since I make the effort to carry, I make the effort to be able to use my gun in any scenario, no matter how unlikely. Shooting competently at longer ranges makes you a better shot at close ranges. It’s challenging, fun and rewarding as you get better.
Shooting Cruz at 30 yards (or farther) would be 100% justifiable, unless you are incompetent at that range.
Then you could just run away and let him continue killing.
|
The one note to that would have to mention that you are using a gun capable of the shot.Many guns I wouldn’t feel same shooting at someone in a crowd. Many of the CCW guns today are just good for SD.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-23-2022, 11:03 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 8,440
Likes: 2,498
Liked 13,178 Times in 4,571 Posts
|
|
25 yards is for personal fun and satisfaction. I sight my carry guns in at much, much closer distances. I actually don't care where they hit at 25 yards or even 25 feet. Okay, 25 feet is kind of where I start with respect to self defense but 25 yards is just silly. That's what rifles are for.
__________________
Come and take it!!
Last edited by ISCS Yoda; 07-23-2022 at 11:06 PM.
|
07-24-2022, 07:01 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 2,726
Liked 1,757 Times in 642 Posts
|
|
Very well thank you
|
07-24-2022, 07:28 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: HEART of TEXAS
Posts: 567
Likes: 578
Liked 923 Times in 299 Posts
|
|
You do not know you gun until you have shot 800 rounds with it in one day.
__________________
V/r,
Markham
|
07-24-2022, 08:26 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,760
Likes: 13,001
Liked 6,167 Times in 2,429 Posts
|
|
I shoot most of mine at 25 to 100 yards to see how they group, 1911s always perform well as do 6” revolvers. 2” revolvers get shot at 25 yards too, point shoot at 3-7 yards.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-24-2022, 09:37 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 240
Likes: 81
Liked 122 Times in 84 Posts
|
|
40 yards under stress, 10 rounds with 80% hit rate on a moving target is the new standard
|
07-24-2022, 09:59 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 14,064
Liked 13,766 Times in 4,990 Posts
|
|
On all off them.................I can tell whether they are loaded or not by the weight when I pick one up..........22's exempted.
__________________
S&W Accumulator
|
07-24-2022, 10:02 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ohio usa
Posts: 503
Likes: 131
Liked 117 Times in 71 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda
25 yards is for personal fun and satisfaction. I sight my carry guns in at much, much closer distances. I actually don't care where they hit at 25 yards or even 25 feet. Okay, 25 feet is kind of where I start with respect to self defense but 25 yards is just silly. That's what rifles are for.
|
So if you wasn’t carrying your rifle,,you would have been worthless at the mall when the murderer was taken out at a distance of 40 yards.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-24-2022, 10:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 6,950
Likes: 4,430
Liked 10,068 Times in 3,689 Posts
|
|
That shot was first reported at 30’, how did it get to 40yds?
|
07-25-2022, 12:58 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 240
Likes: 81
Liked 122 Times in 84 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50
That shot was first reported at 30’, how did it get to 40yds?
|
it was always reported at 40, then people looked at pictures and started extrapolating based on what they think was more likely, ie they started coping because they realized they were well below that standard. they shouldn't feel so bad. eli was taught to shoot by his grandpa, he was familiar with guns from a young age, and started carrying as soon as he was legally eligible. reports say it was a glock in 9mm, i'm betting it was a glock 19 or 26 lol. meanwhile i see guys on youtube doing the "eli drill" with their tricked out 5 inch staccatos lol
|
07-25-2022, 11:35 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC, Yadkin County
Posts: 6,221
Likes: 25,688
Liked 8,550 Times in 3,199 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by willy
So if you wasn’t carrying your rifle,,you would have been worthless at the mall when the murderer was taken out at a distance of 40 yards.
|
YES!! At 80 yr. old, weak, stove up and half blind 40 yds. is the same as a mile. I can still hit the side of a barn at 25 yds. if I'm inside. Larry
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-25-2022, 12:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: South Texas
Posts: 434
Likes: 228
Liked 332 Times in 202 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tops
YES!! At 80 yr. old, weak, stove up and half blind 40 yds. is the same as a mile. I can still hit the side of a barn at 25 yds. if I'm inside. Larry
|
Sir, that's damn funny. Know my gun very well.
__________________
Is that a gun No a lifesaver
|
07-25-2022, 09:09 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ohio usa
Posts: 503
Likes: 131
Liked 117 Times in 71 Posts
|
|
[QUOTE=tops;141524501]YES!! At 80 yr. old, weak, stove up and half blind 40 yds. is the same as a mile. I can still hit the side of a barn at 25 yds. if I'm inside. Larry[/QUOT
A man has to know his limitations,,,
My hat is off to you sir.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-25-2022, 10:54 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In The Woods Of S.C.
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 14,064
Liked 13,766 Times in 4,990 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by willy
So if you wasn’t carrying your rifle,,you would have been worthless at the mall when the murderer was taken out at a distance of 40 yards.
|
I regularly hit my 100 yard steel gong(26 in. in dia.) with any handgun I own including the 2 in snubs and plastic fantastics......ANY target inside 30 yards is BORING. You can be tied upside down from a tree limb and hit a B27 target all day long up close.
__________________
S&W Accumulator
Last edited by Mike, SC Hunter; 07-25-2022 at 10:55 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-27-2022, 08:35 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 2
Liked 1,595 Times in 888 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestinmathews
Most people with 9mms shoot 115's in practice and shoot a heavier load for carry. So they have no idea where the gun impacts in the real world at whatever distance. Those folks that carry a .38(125/158), .40(165/180), or .45(230) might luck into their practice round and carry load being the same weight.
You are asking a question that someone who puts 500 rounds a year or more through their carry gun might figure out depending on the difficulty of their practice routine. It's been my experience that people practice at single digit yardage and use the majority of the large target. It's easier for me to type this than to practice, but this was from this morning.
|
Since you asked , there is about 1 to 1.5 in difference in POI @ 25yd between 158 std vel and 158 +P .
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-27-2022, 08:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 2
Liked 1,595 Times in 888 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by white cloud
I notice that most shooters at the local range are apparently not all that concerned accuracy, POI, POA issues. :-) I am very concerned about those issues and make sure I practice with and carry ammo I am familiar with in my gun. Clint Smith makes this point very well in his video covering the "shoot fast fairy".
|
I'll go one better .
Most LE/ Armed Security don't know their POI .
If the impacts are sufficiently close to POA to qualify on a Q or B-27 , all is good .
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-27-2022, 09:11 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 2
Liked 1,595 Times in 888 Posts
|
|
There are self fulfilling perceptions . Those who think " only happens up close " , will only or predominantly practice up close , and are prone to carry tiny difficult to shoot accurately guns . Those who believe they should be prepared for a variety of possibilities , will practice out to longer distances , and are more likely to carry a more serious gun .
Accurate shooters can speed up more sucuessfully than spray & pray'ers can suddenly get more accurate .
I must be a statistical freak . because I know of several long-ish range pistol encounters , up to first shot takedown of armed carjacker ( simultaneously escaped prisoner) at measured 76 yds .
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-27-2022, 10:09 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 36
Likes: 19
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
|
|
I grew up with the 6 o'clock hold. I had to adjust when all the white dots came out. When I was younger, I hunted in West Texas from about 8 years old to around 40 something. Those days have long passed. Anyway, I had the chance to shoot at any distance I chose and what I found, just my opinion, is once I knew where my gun shot at 25 yards from a rest. I just really needed to know my ballistic tables for the round I was shooting. I don't get to do that anymore but it taught me a great deal about aiming points. the 9mm is one of the better rounds for long distance in that out to a 100 yards you only have about 6 to 8 inches in drop. You can use any round and any barrel length at impractical distances if you know the ballistics.
In the world of EDC and LTC you don't need that distance and I don't shoot it much anymore. In the 3,5,7,15, 25 range I never change my POA. Shoot center mass and shoot till you stop the threat.
Know your gun, know your ballistics, know yourself.
Practice, practice, practice.
Flame suit on but just my opinion.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|