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  #51  
Old 02-17-2018, 05:03 PM
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Default ...... just carry

I posted earlier a 19/66 snub, they do not make them like that any more. My 19-4 snub has been on my hip for over 10 years in all weather and all kinds of places... it is not blue any more... really gray is more to the point and I have lost count of the rounds down range, not as tight as it once was but it is the energizer bunny of revolvers. Easy to conceal, handle heavy loads with ease, not too heavy and very accurate. I don't leave home without it. All that said, for me, the perfect CC carry when your life or a loved ones life is in peril....
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:00 AM
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Hi Whitwabit,

Were I you, I'd thoroughly analyze likely circumstances that would require deadly force. This might seem like heresy: you aren't gonna gain appreciable benefit going with a .357 Mag over a .38 Special +P outta a belly gun. In fact, the .357 Mag might be more detrimental than beneficial.

I own a Model 60. It's gotta be 35 years old. It's a fantastic handgun. I used to carry it off-duty. But it has severe limitations. With the FBI Load, it is close to unwieldy. I can put 5 rounds double-action & point shooting into vitals of a silhouette at 10'. But it ain't easy with +P rounds.

A belly gun is a close range self-defense handgun when no other options exist; e.g., running the heck outta a danger zone. I'm talkin' 10' or less. I'm talkin' draw, point, and shoot. If you take time to aim, you're almost assuredly gonna take rounds distance. This makes the .357 Mag a detriment.

I've read that there are guys who can shoot a .357 Mag out of a belly gun. I've never met one. But I'm sure that there are.

At belly gun distance, your gun's muzzle must ALWAYS remain pointed at a threat. Recoil that takes your gun's muzzle off of a threat is a huge disadvantage. If you have to reacquire sight picture after every round you might have to fire, you'd give your threat opportunity to put rounds on you.

.357 Mag muzzle flash outta a 4" barreled handgun can be seen by orbiting astronauts. Suffice it to write, outta a belly gun, .357 Mag muzzle flash with screw with your night vision...day vision, too. The horrendous report from of a .357 Mag outta a 4" barreled handgun can be disorienting. Outta a belly gun, .357 Mag muzzle blast outta a belly gun might bust eardrums.

Here's the reality: a large So Cal law enforcement agency's armorer told me that even out of a 2.5" Model 66, using the FBI Load is better than a .357 Mag. He was using the biological science of human incapacity. At belly gun distance, the FBI Load is optimum. A .357 Mag won't hasten incapacity.

I consider my Model 60 a one bad guy, neck & up gun. At belly gun distance, the longer bullets fly the higher the probability of my taking rounds, and taking rounds ain't wise.

If you were to wander to the vicinity of the murder exchange we know as Chicago, I'd recommend forgetting the belly gun thing. Go with a full-size 1911-A1 with 230 grain bullets and at least 2 spare mags.

If you're gonna go belly gun, I'd suggest your giving a very long look at the S&W Classic 36-10 2". It's the way I'd go were I you.

I wish you my sincere best.
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  #53  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:45 PM
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For carry, Model 19 or 66 hands down! He said for carry and I consider the 19 and 66 to be some of the finest carry revolvers ever made.

I've carried one or the other for over 30 years.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:10 PM
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My first was a Chiefs Special



Now I alternate between my 1957 Cobra and my 1971 Model 12-2



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Old 02-18-2018, 02:57 PM
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Austrian Tupperware is my belt gun, mostly per work regs, but my primary pocket carry gun is a 442-2. Draws easily from the pocket due to the rounded contour and can count on five shots, regardless of shooting stance or quality of hand placement on the grip.
A 4” M10/64 can be carried concealed with a decent holster and a stiff belt that supports the weight and does not allow the gun/holster to slide around and smack you in the ribs with every step you take.
These revolvers can be had in cosmetically rough but excellent mechanical condition for $300 and up. Town Police here in Richmond has VA DOC 4” M64 trade ins for $300. There were three in the case yesterday.
There was a sock drawer condition 4” standard barrel M10 at another one of our local cop shops, Southern Police, yesterday for $350.

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  #56  
Old 02-18-2018, 03:42 PM
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I can and do carry the Model 65 with a 3" barrel in the front pocket of Duluth Trading cargo pants. If I wear something lighter then the 65 goes on my belt.



This model 15 was made when Lyndon was President and I've been carrying it in that same cargo pants pocket.

Note the good grips on both of these revolvers. My standard load is the 158 grain FBI load and it is a pleasure to shoot out of either of these EDC guns.

I also carry a Model 60 and a 1983 Model 37 from time to time.

Being practical in wardrobe selections is very important in making whatever you choose work.

I use old leather (ruff out) "in the waist band" holsters with the metal clip removed for my pocket carry holsters. The ruff out grips the inside of my pocket very well and the smooth leather interior babies the finish on my classic revolvers. I pocket carry with nothing but the gun in the IWB holster in that pocket.

I train drawing from this set up with my thumb over the hammer. Even with the adjustable sights, the Model 15 glides out of my pocket like a knife through hot butter.

One Bianchi speed strip with 6 rounds in my other front pocket for peace of mind.

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Old 02-19-2018, 05:51 PM
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So many good suggestions !!

Is it worth the extra bucks to get a Performance Center model ?? Is the trigger that much better ??

Last edited by Whitwabit; 02-19-2018 at 05:52 PM.
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  #58  
Old 02-19-2018, 06:24 PM
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I have two performance center guns and the triggers are very nice from the get go. With all my other revolvers, the trigger got just about as good as the PC after about 1000 dry fires.

I wouldn't buy a PC just for the trigger work. They often have other features that make it worth spending a bit extra.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:08 PM
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A little old school, but carrying a revolver of any type for CCW is old school.

S&W Model 36 "Chief's Special" in 38 Special with Altamont "Santos Rosewood" boot grips.


If I were to go to a larger revolver for CCW, it'd be a brand new 3-inch Model 686.

S&W Model 686+ in 357 Magnum.


Thanks for considering my recommendations.

God bless,
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
So many good suggestions !!

Is it worth the extra bucks to get a Performance Center model ?? Is the trigger that much better ??
No personal experience, but from what I've read it can be hit-or-miss. The best thing to do would be to try before you buy.

As dr. mordo said, there may be other features worth considering beyond the trigger pull.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
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Whatever you get, I would suggest having someone proficient give it a check up to make everything is kosher, especially if buying modern production for a conceal carry piece.

The reason I say this, and only one other person mentioned hesitancy towards modern production S&Ws, is because I would not personally bet my life on a new production S&W revolver I haven't examined for myself to make sure all the fitting/function is up to spec.

Now, this applies to any revolvers, including ones made in the last 60yrs, but is even more pertinent nowadays. An out of the box S&W made last month would not be instantly placed on my hip for duty. It would require a complete gunsmith inspection first, then actually shooting/testing of it. Older guns would be held to much less scrutiny but still inspected first too, that's just common sense.

To each their own though. That's just my opinion if life could be on the line, because way too many people just think revolvers are fail proof. Yeah, that's true, if they are built properly (perfectly) and tested.
IMHO, THIS IS VERY GOOD ADVICE ! ! !

MANY THREADS AND COMMENTS ON THIS VERY FORUM, HAVE LED ME TO BELIEVE, THAT MUCH OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR QUALITY CONTROL, OF BRAND NEW, S&W PRODUCTS--EVEN PC GUNS--HAS BEEN SHIFTED TO THE END USER. THAT MEANS, TO THE CUSTOMERS LIKE YOU AND ME....

I'M SURE THAT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR AWHILE, CAN RECALL COMPLAINTS ABOUT GUNS THAT --IN ANY REASONABLE PERSON'S OPINION--SHOULD HAVE NEVER LEFT THE FACTORY, IN THE CONDITION THAT THEY WERE IN. INSTANCES OF THE SAME NEW GUN, BEING SENT BACK, FOR THE VERY SAME PROBLEM, MORE THAN ONCE, ARE NOT UNHEARD OF....

IMHO--THE FACT THAT A PRODUCT IS UNDER WARRANTY, SHOULD NOT ABSOLVE THE MANUFACTURER OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY, TO DELIVER A SAFE AND RELIABLE WEAPON--EACH AND EVERY TIME--THAT CAN BE USED TO DEFEND ONE'S LIFE, OR ONE'S HOME, RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX ! ! !

THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS, HOWEVER, SO YOU NEED TO TAKE PROPER PRECAUTIONS, BEFORE YOU BET YOUR LIFE ON ANY FIREARM, THAT IS NEW TO YOU.....
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:46 PM
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Honestly Ruger makes a better gun out of the factory.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
Honestly Ruger makes a better gun out of the factory.
NOW THAT'S A SAD COMMENTARY, WHICH UNFORTUNATELY, MAY BE TRUE...
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. mordo View Post
I have two performance center guns and the triggers are very nice from the get go. With all my other revolvers, the trigger got just about as good as the PC after about 1000 dry fires.

I wouldn't buy a PC just for the trigger work. They often have other features that make it worth spending a bit extra.
I DON'T OWN A PC GUN, BUT BASED UPON WHAT I HAVE READ, AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH REGULAR PRODUCTION REVOLVERS, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH dr. mordo.......

I WOULD NOT BY A PC GUN, SOLELY FOR THE TRIGGER, EITHER.....
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Old 02-20-2018, 07:50 PM
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Any one know what is the difference between the 686 plus deluxe verses the 686 plus performance center models ??
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:09 PM
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The PC:

• Chrome Teardrop Hammer
• Chrome Trigger with Stop
• Precision Crowned Barrel
• Cylinder Cut for Moonclips
• PC Tuned Action

Also, my 686 PC doesn't like to ignite bullets...

A couple of other observations about my 686:

• It has a remarkably heavy DA trigger, even after replacing the springs with a Wilson kit. The same springs created a trigger pull that was probably two pounds lighter in my K and N frames. (BTW, the misfires were with the stock springs, I installed an Apex firing pin when I did the springs, so hopefully it's fixed)
• It's the exact same size as a GP100, so holsters are interchangeable.
• Despite being almost identical to a K frame, the 686 feels much heavier and chunkier in my hand. I really struggled to a find a grip I like, and my standard preferences for K and N frames didn't work with the 686.
• Moonclips are very convenient, and I will quite likely get other pistols cut for them.

Last edited by dr. mordo; 02-20-2018 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:56 PM
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Well I have finally decided on the S&W M686+ Performance Center Revolver .. Took me just over 6 months of looking to finally decide !! Ended up between 3 in the end .. M686+ PC, M327 PC, and the
M627 PC ..

Ended up being a tougher decision then I thought it would be when I started looking !!

The 686+ will suit me well for the rest of my life and then will go to my grandson when I'm gone ..

Should have it in about a week or so when ever it comes in ..

Looking for an IWB and OWB holsters now for it ..

Any suggestions from the forum ??
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:09 AM
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Get a new six shot colt cobra!!
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
Well I have finally decided on the S&W M686+ Performance Center Revolver .. Took me just over 6 months of looking to finally decide !! Ended up between 3 in the end .. M686+ PC, M327 PC, and the
M627 PC ..

Ended up being a tougher decision then I thought it would be when I started looking !!

The 686+ will suit me well for the rest of my life and then will go to my grandson when I'm gone ..

Should have it in about a week or so when ever it comes in ..

Looking for an IWB and OWB holsters now for it ..

Any suggestions from the forum ??
What barrel length did you go with?
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
Honestly Ruger makes a better gun out of the factory.
At 1 time, all I owned were Rugers. handguns/rifles/shotguns. 2 SP 101's etc etc. They 1/2 make a nice gun, but don't go the final distance in smoothing/finishing/polishing, (since app the 6 series IMO). They can become very nice with some out of pocket $ for some smithy work. Sorry JMO. As for a S&W S/D gun, (for me) I don't need/want an exposed hammer, adjustable sights, NOT gonna have the time to get in YOUR perfect stance with perfect sight alignment. You and your attacker are not gonna be standing perfectly still, unless accosted at the OK coral. D/A firing will be the order of the day. DO WANT/APPRECIATE the strength & extra wt of steel. How deep your pockets are (physically not financially) & preference should determine YOUR frame size choice. (I) don't care for shooting full house 357's from a snub, & don't feel the need for at an arms length scenario. (that's me), SO, the enclosed all steel 640 NO DASH get's my vote. WHY the ND? A small factor is the slightly shorter length, but the main reason is the front sight (appearing) solid/stronger, but you give up the 357 option. 2nd choice would be a steel humpback. These would also make nice BUGS for the excellent 19's, 60's, belt carried whatevers.

Last edited by nachogrande; 03-20-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 03-20-2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
Should have it in about a week or so when ever it comes in ..

Looking for an IWB and OWB holsters now for it ..

Any suggestions from the forum ??
I would suggest Galco Fletch Belt Holster Right Hand S&W 586 686 Colt - MPN: FL104
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:59 PM
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A 29 with a 4" barrel worked for Elmer!
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:23 PM
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Since you are limiting yourself to S&W, I'd suggest that you also limit yourself to steel J or K-frame models manufactured before 1980. They carry very easily and can be shot all day without fatigue or failure. Since you are not interested in other brands I won't tell you how pleased I have been with a Taurus model 856 snubby 6-shot 38 special +P, or a Ruger LCR also in 38 special +P. The steel-framed Taurus has just the right weight to smooth out recoil for pleasant and controllable shooting. The LCR is super light-weight, which makes it nearly unnoticeable on your belt - however it will not be the best choice for a big box of Buffalo Bore fire-breathers. Both have been 100% reliable and carry comfortably. Buy one of each for the price of one new S&W.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:50 PM
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My recommendations are, like all of the above, heavily biased toward my personal likes and dislikes. But to answer your question, first you need to choose a revolver that you are actually willing to carry regularly. Size and weight make a difference. These can be accomodated, if you are willing to do so. J Frame or K Frame, my preference is a steel framed revolver for EDC. It is easier to shoot, easier to hold still, and handles recoil better. I'm not recoil sensitive but I like to shoot a lot of rounds through what I carry too! My favorite J Frame is my Model 640-1, which is chambered in .357/.38 Special. I carry and shoot +P .38 Specials (Gold Dot 135 grain for short barrels or a good semi wadcutter style 158 grain loading). I believe those will do nicely if you can quickly deliver them to the right place under pressure. I prefer the Centennial style revolver for personal protection carry. I never carry a J Frame in my pants pocket. Only occasionally in a jacket pocket. No problem here with 5 good rounds.

For K Frames, any of the steel framed snubbies in .38 Special or .357 mag, again carried with the above ammo. I don't care for the L Framed revolvers for EDC. Six rounds here are great. My favorite EDC K Frame is a Model 10 fixed sight with a 3" barrel. All my revolvers, with few exceptions, are older models perfectly capable of holding up to higher pressure loadings if not over done. I carry on my belt, a good double thickness leather belt that supports the weight of the steel frames and I carry in a good leather holster that works well for me. Don't cheap out when buying leather! Get good quality stuff!

Grip styles and shapes and sizes affect concealability, but they must fit YOUR hands well for you to do your best work with the revolver. I have a set of Crimson Trace Model 305 extended red laser grips on my Model 640. They fit my hands well and they are also pretty easy to conceal with the right holster. OEM magna grips with a grip adapter can work pretty well too! Same thing with my EDC K Frame snubs. I prefer a round butt K Frame since the grip is easier to conceal but I need at least the grip adapter to get a good grip on the revolver. There are many good and different choices among the grips available, both wood and composite. Pachmayer compacts are hard to beat for shooting as well as carrying for me.

Yes, I very much like, and can carry, a longer barrel. But every day all day long carry adds up, and extra weight is noticeable. An EDC should be comforting to you when you carry it, but you must carry it all the time cause you don't know when you might need it. So it also needs to be as comfortable to carry as possible for EDC. There are still many good choices among the J and K framed revolvers that were made in the 60's, 70's, and even into the 80's available if you are patient and look for them. An EDC doesn't have to be the prettiest thing to be great to carry. Yeah, I like mine to look good, but mostly, I am the only one who will ever see them. Function is more important to me than form! But it doesn't matter what someone else likes best. Find one that fit you, especially your hands, your needs, and that you can shoot well. If you have confidence in it, it will likely serve your needs best. It's not what I can do with it, it's what you can do with it, and whether or not it's something you can carry without problems every day all day long! Good luck in your search!
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:20 PM
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What barrel length did you go with?
Its the snub nose .. 2 1/2 inches
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:57 PM
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For OWB I find it hard to beat the Lobo Enhanced Pancake for your new snubbie. Gotta have a gun belt, too, or the holster won't perform like you want it to. I went with a Milt Sparks belt. Ultra comfortable right out of the box.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:54 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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Thanks to all that made suggestions ..

The pistol has shipped and is setting in Indy right now .. waiting to come my way .. should get to my FFL on Monday if the snow doesn't slow it down ..

A 686+ Performance Center 2 1/2 inch barrel .. Can't wait to shoot it !!
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:28 PM
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a 3" K frame in most any flavor is a great start.
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:01 PM
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Well Fed X shows it was delivered to my FFL today . will be getting a call from them soon ..
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:05 PM
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Don't forget, we like pictures!!!!!
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Old 03-27-2018, 08:20 PM
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Don't forget, we like pictures!!!!!
have to figure out how to do that ..
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAhunter View Post
I don't care for the J frames. My choice is a 2 1/2" model 66. I load it with the Gold Dot .357 short barrel load or Winchester Silvertips. The Gold Dot .357 is just a touch faster than their +P .38 Special load.
Maybe the new 2 3/4 in Model 66? Full length ejector rod and no fragile forcing cone.
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:09 PM
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Well I'm not carrying it but I'd love a S&W Model 64 3" round butt with service stocks and Tyler-T grips with Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel loads with a spare speed strip in a pouch...

Need to work on getting that rig!
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:11 AM
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Will picked up my 686+ Performance Center Revolver this weekends.. .. Its
borne on day was just a month ago ..

Last edited by Whitwabit; 03-30-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
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My vote would be for the 638 as well. Either the current 638-3, or if you're willing to do a little hunting; you could possibly find the older pre-lock 638-2, which is also Plus-P rated.

The photo below shows my personal 638-3, upper right; and my 638-2, lower left.

[IMG][/IMG]

How do you guys feel comfortable decocking the 638?

On paper the 638 seems to be the perfect j frame, capable of being shot in single or double action but no open hammer to snag on anything. In practice I don't think I would ever get used to decocking it if I needed to, just not enough hammer to get a good purchase.
Maybe it's just me.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:43 AM
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Ok .. looking at S&W and not interested in any other make .. so please limit remarks to S&W revolvers .. Thank You !!

Haven't owned a revolver in 30 some years .. have a group of autos most in 40S&W .. but no revolvers ..

So which one or two .. and why ?? What would you choose ??

Something in 357/38 +P .. DA/SA !!

So what are you carrying ??
My current carry revolver is an early model 60. I like it because it's stainless, so no corrosion concerns, I like that it can be fired using double or single action. I don't like that the hammer is pretty "snaggy" and I don't like that it weighs several ounces more than many modern j frames.
If I were to buy another J to carry it would be a 642. I just can't get myself to pay the money for a few ounces less and no snaggy hammer.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:44 AM
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Really any +P J/K frame snubby will work nicely, but at the moment these are my preferences:
J Frame - 640-1 Pro
K Frame 66 2.5”
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Last edited by CH4; 04-02-2018 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlighting View Post
Can't beat the model 638. Lightweight, reasonable power and can easily conceal in both the pocket and inside the waist.
Model 638 | Smith & Wesson
Another vote for the 638. Mine has a pretty heavy DA trigger pull. Is that an issue for you? If so, I would get something easier to cock, like a 637.
I like a gun I can put on and forget. A J frame works for that. K frames seem so big. I've tried carrying my 15 or 19 and it feels like I've got a tree branch sticking out of my side. And they're heavy, too.

Last edited by max503; 04-02-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hostler View Post
How do you guys feel comfortable decocking the 638?

On paper the 638 seems to be the perfect j frame, capable of being shot in single or double action but no open hammer to snag on anything. In practice I don't think I would ever get used to decocking it if I needed to, just not enough hammer to get a good purchase.
Maybe it's just me.
It does require concentration and safety, but I've practiced it a lot and never had a screw-up. Seems the need to have to do it in a real-life situation would be very small.
I really, really like the snag-free characteristic of the 638 and the ability to shoot SA.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:14 AM
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I recommend a pre-lock Model 36. I carry one every day.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:01 PM
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I carried a 4" fully engraved M15 for several years on plainclothes days, mostly to irritate my Ranger friends. Since I retired, I am back to a 42, or one of my three 60 no dash. We're I starting over I think I would get hold of a 3" steel bodyguard. I don't know if they were ever made but 3" j frame barrels are out there. I use a snub nose load in the 42 and Treasury loads in the 60s. I have a belt holster, and an IWB holster, but usually carry the J-frames in the pocket naked.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:54 PM
Cal44 Cal44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hostler View Post
How do you guys feel comfortable decocking the 638?

On paper the 638 seems to be the perfect j frame, capable of being shot in single or double action but no open hammer to snag on anything. In practice I don't think I would ever get used to decocking it if I needed to, just not enough hammer to get a good purchase.
Maybe it's just me.
I carry a Model 49 and don't see a big issue with decocking.

First, I've tried decocking with the gun unloaded several times and it's no problem.

If it happens at the range, I would just decock carefully, keep the gun pointed down range, and worse case if the trigger slips no harm, no foul.

It seems also like a non-problem in a self defense situation.

First, it's hard to think of a case you would cock the gun.

And if you somehow did cock it, decock slowly and carefully with the gun pointed in a safe direction.

The only imaginary scenario I can think of would be out in the back country somewhere being stocked by a lion. Then if you cock and decide not to shoot and have a AD decocking, you could just apologize to the lion for surprising him.

Obviously, always point the gun in a safe direction when decocking
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