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Old 02-22-2018, 08:32 PM
walnutred walnutred is offline
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Default I know most will disagree with this but...

My daughter is buying her first house and asked for a firearm as a house warming gift. I tried to steer her towards a shotgun but she insisted she wanted a revolver. I have a 32 Regulation Police she likes and helps reload for, on occasion.

Thinking 32 long might be a little light I gave her a 38 Regulation Police and a few boxes of Buffalo Bore 38 S&W defense loads. They are claiming 1000 fps with a 125 gn FN bullet. I reload 38 S&W using a 128 gn SWC so we have no problem with practice ammo. I figure 38 S&W is as good as the 380 I often carry anyway.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:37 PM
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I feel like a .38 is a good beginning. In time, she could work herself up to something more powerful.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:37 PM
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Some Buffalo Bore stuff is loaded kind of hot. You might want to make sure that an old gun can handle it before she needs it for defense.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:39 PM
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You wont get any grief from me for her choice in guns.

Be happy shes getting a gun she knows how to shoot and enjoys shooting.

Forget about uploading it: shes probably a dead shot with regular ammo.

Cant do better than that.

Congratulations!!
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:22 PM
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Some Buffalo Bore stuff is loaded kind of hot. You might want to make sure that an old gun can handle it before she needs it for defense.
This. And the gun choice is fine.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:26 PM
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When a woman knows what she wants, it can be pretty tough to talk her out of it.

Your daughter sounds like she knows what she wants, and I'll bet she can shoot, too.

You can always surprise her with a handy little shotgun later!
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:49 PM
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A gun someone can and will shoot is superior to one a person will not.

While a shotgun is a great short range weapon, they are bulky, hard to put out of sight and yet have easy access. She will probably be more apt to pick up the revolver to go check out a bump in the night than the shotgun.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. K View Post
I feel like a .38 is a good beginning. In time, she could work herself up to something more powerful.
I've carried a 642 in a pocket holster with a speed strip for almost 20 years and never felt undergunned. Judging by the number that are sold each year, a large part of the gun owning public feels the same way.

No warts on a 125gr FN Buffalo Bore at 1000fps either even if it probably clocks less.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:37 PM
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I love the first line on the Buffalo Bore .38 S&W product page (emphasis mine):

"After countless customer requests for ammunition that will make the 38 S&W cartridges lethal to humans, Buffalo Bore is delivering."
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:54 PM
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Buffalo Bore's website says that their .38 S&W loads are OK for any all steel solid frame handgun in good condition. I have a H&R break top in .38 S&W, good fun shooter but not going to try the BB loads in it.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:29 PM
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I started using a 4" revolver for HD, but found something I could slip in my back pocket to answer the door was more useful to me.

Congratulations to your daughter on getting her first house. May her heart and hearth always bring light and warmth to those who enter.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:53 PM
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Default The main things.......

The main things are that she is comfortable shooting it in order to get some practice and willing to use it if necessary.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:56 PM
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took my Mossy 12 ga out for shooting the other day and that mule kicker only got two shots from my shoulder. The other shots were from the hip and that proved the idea false that all you have to do with a shotgun is point it in the general area and you will take out the target. From the hip shooting at gallon milk jugs from 50' I don't think I hit even one right on.
Yep she was right choosing a 38 for protection. I believe the average built woman would not want to be depending on a 12 ga shotgun for protection. To much recoil kick and pain to want to pull the trigger twice.
Call me a wuss I admit it, these old bones and out of tone muscles don't want to feel the kick.

When I was a teenager a bunch of us went rabbit hunting and one guy had a double barrel shotgun 20ga. We talked him into pulling both triggers at the same time. He was quite a stout built in shape youngster and it about knocked him to the ground.

I have seen really big men that had badly bruised shoulders from skeet shooting practice.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:06 AM
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I handload .38 S&W using .357 caliber LHBWC, using the tried and true BE load. The skirts must open a bit as it delivers fine accuracy (better than .361 diameter 145 LRN) from a M34 and several break tops. (I load it out as long as possible, and it looks odd, and its really not a carry around with you loading as the bullet lube could well attract dirt, etc..)
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
I love the first line on the Buffalo Bore .38 S&W product page (emphasis mine):

"After countless customer requests for ammunition that will make the 38 S&W cartridges lethal to humans, Buffalo Bore is delivering."
This will be welcome news to some very old British Soldiers who traveled the world merely inconviencing those they shot with thier .38s.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:18 AM
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...if you ask Bella Twin...she'll tell you it's all in the shot placement...

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Old 02-23-2018, 12:24 AM
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THE ONLY THING THAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS THREAD IS THAT YOU DID NOT PUSH YOUR DAUGHTER INTO A SHOTGUN, FOR HOME DEFENSE......

IMHO--A 3" OR 4" M686+, STUFFED WITH 148GR, TARGET WADCUTTERS, WOULD SERVE HER BETTER THAN ANYTHING THAT YOU ARE CONTEMPLATING.....

ITS THE FACTORY AMMO THAT JIM CIRILLO, FAMED MEMBER OF THE NYPD "STAKE OUT SQUAD", USED TO KILL OVER A DOZEN CRIMINALS, IN THE NUMEROUS SHOOTOUTS, THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN.....

HEY--BUT ITS NOT MY DAUGHTER, AND ITS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. MY BEST WISHES, GO OUT TO BOTH OF YOU......
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
No warts on a 125gr FN Buffalo Bore at 1000fps either even if it probably clocks less.
All the test data I've seen indicates that Buffalo Bore ammo does what they claim. Most I've read has been data on .38 Special loads, which they actually test through two- and four-inch barrels.

I paid the extra money for their standard pressure .38 special LSWCHP-GC because several tests clock it as almost precisely identical to the older Remington +P FBI load I can't find anymore since they introduced the diluted version.

But I'll admit that the idea of a 125 grain bullet at 1000 fps is food for thought
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:15 AM
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DELETED, duplicate.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:26 AM
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StAtistics indicate that the majority of home invaders do not have guns, and the majority of those that so have guns have no training I how to use the,m. They have them to scare people. Stats also indicate that home invader armed or not armed are usually deterred when confronted by a gun. The psychological stop When confronted with a gun ends more potentially violent encounters than anything else.

I think your daughter is quite OK with your gifted gun. She need to do only one thing to assure being the winner. She need to an accurate shooter under stress. That is learned not gifted. Take her shooting.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:34 AM
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She's comfortable with a variety of handguns and calibers. Her statement was that in poor light and under stress she wanted the simplicity of a revolver.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:35 AM
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I would give her an opportunity to change what you ended up giving her for the 32 she initially asked you for-she may not want to hurt your feelings. She needs to have a gun-whichever it is-that she is confident and comfortable with. I would rather have my Wife shoot a 22 LR accurately than a hot 38 SPL that scares her. JM2CW. Hope you forgive the intrusion.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
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She's comfortable with a variety of handguns and calibers. Her statement was that in poor light and under stress she wanted the simplicity of a revolver.
She is an intelligent gun handler. When you have the opportunity to select the weapon you feel most comfortable with do it. The fit between person and weapon is personal and ought not be denied. A person who can put a 22LR between the eyes is much safer than a person who misses with a 45 ACP.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:36 AM
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Few things.

(1) Shotguns are highly overrated. Shotguns wielded by people that never practice with them are pure prop comedy.

(2) The best defensive tool, bar none, is your favorite gun.

(3) Buffalo Bore's not bad. I think the 148-gr wadcutter thing is another hugely overrated thing. I don't know what I'd actually use in .38 Smith & Wesson (note, fellow posters, it's .38 S&W, not .38 Spl). But really, 8 out of 10 scenarios can be solved by having a gun. Another 1 in 10 require you to actually make it go bang. It's only the remaining 10% where capacity and cartridge start mattering.

(4) True story: if a woman is going to have to shoot somebody, it's better than even odds she knows the guy.

(5) Mebbe buy her her own press? Shoots and reloads, helluva classy lady.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
I love the first line on the Buffalo Bore .38 S&W product page (emphasis mine):

"After countless customer requests for ammunition that will make the 38 S&W cartridges lethal to humans, Buffalo Bore is delivering."
Roy Dunlap, a noted gunsmith an author, said that during WW2 he saw British troops using 9x19 ammo in their S&W Victorys. This was not given as a recommendation by any means, more of a "desperate times call for desperate measures" example. The British supply system seemed under stocked on proper ammo and performance of the 380 Mk II in the field did not inspire confidence.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:33 AM
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I have to agree with the statement about shotguns.

While they are very deadly, to many people have this belief that all you have to do is point them and jerk the trigger and no more bad guy. Toss a lot of the Judge and Governor owners in with them.

While a shotgun delivers a monster blow, it doesn't spread out much inside a house ranges. While the blow is much more deadly a poorly aimed shot is no better than the same point and jerk from a revolver. The marginal "nicked em" with a revolver is about the only better deal when using a shotgun
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:40 AM
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For what it's worth I think you did fine with the 38sp revolver and Buffalo Bore ammo. Your daughters thinking is right on, in a dark, anxious, alarmed state the simplicity of a revolver is a comfort. Besides, 38sp's are fun to load for.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:03 AM
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Suggest that she keep speed loader or two nearby.
.38 is fine for home defense, but the low capacity "could" be a problem during a home invasion.

There was a woman in Florida whose home was invaded. She hid in the closet with her children.... .38 revolver in hand. When the perp opened the closet door she fired, striking him 5 times in the head and neck area. She bluffed him by saying that if he didn't leave she was going to shoot him again. She was fresh out of ammo!

He retreated and the police found him on her neighbors lawn, crying and pleading for help. Had there been an accomplice or two she would have been in trouble!
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:41 AM
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When my daughter and son turned 21 I just opened my safe and said you choose which handgun you would like. Daughter chose a nickel diamondback 4 in, son chose a model 66 3 in I think they both have pretty good taste in guns.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:15 AM
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My only observation is I've had issues with BB's primers. They are very hard and don't like to ignite. So don't buy a bunch before you test it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:35 AM
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My only observation is I've had issues with BB's primers. They are very hard and don't like to ignite. So don't buy a bunch before you test it.
I suppose the primers tend to blow out under those loads.

I felt perfectly happy with my model 10 with good jhp ammo.

AND if I have an 'inadequate stopper' I plan to just keep pulling the trigger until the proper results are achieved.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:29 PM
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Default IMO, DON'T BET YOUR LIFE ON IT.

[QUOTE=richardw;139940074]Statistics indicate that the majority of home invaders do not have guns, and the majority have them to scare people. Stats also indicate that home invader armed or not armed are usually deterred when confronted by a gun. The psychological stop When confronted with a gun ends more potentially violent encounters than anything else.

A gun IS NOT a magic wand that will ALWAYS make neer do wells succumb to your demands. Statistically speaking, a bullet to the head/cns would deter more bad guys.

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Old 02-23-2018, 12:50 PM
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Wow, let's beat this around every which way while ignoring the easiest solution.

Get her the gun she wants and with which she is familiar. That will give her the most advantage in an emergency.

BUT

Also get her the shotgun. Yes, you can buy her both! Maybe a coach gun. Then when you take her out to practice with her revolver, she can gain familiarity with the shotty.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:01 PM
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The English and Canadians and others made it through WWII using the 38 S&W and they didn't have BB. A great cartridge. It can be fired in the backyard or indoors. With the standard round nose load there is virtually no recoil, no muzzle blast, and ear protection is a matter of your choice. Got a Terrier here in the drawer, and I feel perfectly fine about it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:13 PM
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Default ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIE LINES.

In the movie the untouchables, a dying Sean Connery asks Kevin Costner "what are you willing to do?" Brandishing a gun MAY get you in, or out of trouble. What are you willing to do when the bad guy says "go ahead and shoot"???
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Why would anyone disagree with you? The venerable .38SPL is a great round and a very good self-defense load.

I would caution anyone about heavy loads in guns designed for .38SPL though.

There is no standard for loads hotter than +P. All we know about +P+ is that they are making more pressure. They don't perform better and don't do more damage. They DO put more wear on the gun and can potentially damage the gun. Also, because there's no standard, the cartridge to cartridge consistency is suspect. I would not use +P+ in any of my .38SPL guns.

If she puts the rounds where they need to go, standard .38SPL is fine and it won't hurt to shoot.
The gun in question is a .38 S&W, not .38 Special.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:49 PM
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I suppose the primers tend to blow out under those loads.

I felt perfectly happy with my model 10 with good jhp ammo.

AND if I have an 'inadequate stopper' I plan to just keep pulling the trigger until the proper results are achieved.
Why would the primers "blow out"? .38 S&W operates at less than half the pressure of 9 mm or .357 Magnum and their primers don't blow out.
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:51 PM
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Why would anyone disagree with you? The venerable .38SPL is a great round and a very good self-defense load.
I know I'm in agreement. I keep loaded revolvers all over my house, all stoked with .38 Special. Okay, one of them might have some +P in it, but that's my bedtime gun.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:20 PM
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Why would the primers "blow out"? .38 S&W operates at less than half the pressure of 9 mm or .357 Magnum and their primers don't blow out.
I think he means flatten or pierce due to the extreme overpressure in BB loads.
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:50 PM
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Having fired off Tim's finest in .32acp, .32 H&R, .380 acp, .38 S&W Spl, I don't think BB overpressures thier offerings. I think.they load right up to SAAMI standards, other manufacturers must manufacture many many more rounds between checking thier equipment. I see very little deviation in velocity from round to round with BB, and much greater SD with other manufacturers.

I EDC BB (standard pressure 150 gr LWC) in my M640.

I think if BB truly exceeded SAAMI standards some smart lawyer would have made a dime and a headline off of it.

I also think BB enjoys this image of being over the max, and I just have to chuckle at some of the hyperbole.

SAAMI has set the psi for .38 S&W at 14,500. Special is 17,000. Special +p is 20,000. Using my load calculator spreadsheets, most target loads in .38 Special are under 12,000 psi. So if you can load out to the same length, with the same weight (145/148) bullet, you can make .38 Special loads for the .38 S&W. (See post #14.)
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:05 PM
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The gun in question is a .38 S&W, not .38 Special.
I sit corrected. As I read it I was thinking the S&W part just referred to the gun. I was not familiar with the .38S&W round until a few moments ago. Thanks for the correction. I will remove my post.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:09 PM
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I think he means flatten or pierce due to the extreme overpressure in BB loads.
But the SPPs you or I or Tim buy, they don't know if they are being loaded in a 12,000 psi .38 LC, a 35,000 psi .357 rem magnum or a 45,000 psi 5.7x28. Why would they flaten at different pressures in different loadings.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:38 PM
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I doubt that the BB loads are all that hot, probably just at the upper limit of pressure. Standard .38 S&W loads are loaded to the old black powder performance levels. It is no trick at all to reload the .38 S&W to .38 Special ballistics, but those loads should never be used in any top break revolver, solid frame only. 3.7 grains of Unique will drive a 158 grain lead bullet to the low 800s ft/sec MV. Any .38 Special bullets will work fine in the .38 S&W.

Regarding the earlier comments about using 9mm in a .38 S&W-chambered revolver, there are many reports of that being done by the British during WWII. Captured German 9mm ammo was often more easily obtained than .380 Mk2. It usually involved using a punch and hammer on the 9mm rim to raise it a little so the case did not slide too deeply into the .38 S&W chamber. Was it safe? Probably not, but better than using an empty revolver because you didn't have the right ammo.

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Old 02-23-2018, 07:53 PM
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A gentleman up above said (to the effect) a home intruder is usually deterred when confronted with a gun----interesting word that, "confronted". If that means warned, or threatened, let me suggest that's giving a sucker an even break---and that is in marked contrast to the old adage: "Never give a sucker an even break."

Let me suggest further the only thing one should do with a gun when encountering a home invader is shoot it----as many times as possible---in as little time as possible---all the while making every effort to remember the goal of shooting a gun is to hit your target.

It occurs to me most regular, everyday, law abiding folks tend to be more or less rational----also that most regular, everyday, law breaking folks do not tend to be rational. Accordingly, any "let's make a deal" encounters between good guys and bad guys are doomed from the get-go. The good guy is focused on making the bad guy go away. The bad guy is focused on achieving the objective in mind when he came in to your house---or tried to come into your house. There's no deal to be made here.

The moral of this story is uninvited guests are fair game.

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Old 02-23-2018, 08:15 PM
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My daughter grew up watching me shoot IPSC, for fun, the serious stuff she didn't get to see. When she was 14 and a bit over 5' nothing, heck she ain't much taller now in her late 30's, she decided she wanted to shoot IPSC! OK since I was shooting a 1911 I loaned her my Glock 19, ONLY at the range for practice and competition with ME present, she easily outshot men that had been shooting for years. When she got her first place, still not old enough to buy a handgun, got her a 20 ga pump that, like stated above, was a little bit difficult to handle around the house but she still shot it well.
OK that's story number 1. Second story is my wife , again, slightly over 5' nothing. She was a dispatcher for many years and in the smallish department she worked for if you wanted to ride along you HAD to qualify, 00 buck and slugs, with the same 12 ga that all the officers carried. She qual'd every 6 months!! Shoulder looked like she'd been in a VERY BIG fight for a few days but she handled it graciously!
This is all just saying if they want it shoot let them shoot what they want!
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:29 AM
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Both of our girls are terrible shots and pretty much hate going to the range. That said I gave them both a .22 revolver, a S&W 317 snub to one and a Ruger all steel snub to the other. When I take them shooting w/me they like those guns and a .22 is better than a harsh word from a shakey voice. Neither have their ccw permit so one keeps her gun in her hair styling shop and the other at home. It gives me some measure of comfort knowing their dad did something to help in an emergency.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:36 AM
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Both of our girls are terrible shots and pretty much hate going to the range. That said I gave them both a .22 revolver, a S&W 317 snub to one and a Ruger all steel snub to the other. When I take them shooting w/me they like those guns and a .22 is better than a harsh word from a shakey voice. Neither have their ccw permit so one keeps her gun in her hair styling shop and the other at home. It gives me some measure of comfort knowing their dad did something to help in an emergency.
LMAO, Old cop. "a harsh word from a shaky voice" IS JUST SO FUNNY TO READ. SADLY, HOWEVER, IT IS THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION......

IMHO (AND YOU WOULD KNOW BETTER THAN I) MOST FELONS ARE LOOKING FOR SOFT TARGETS. WHEN CONFRONTED BY A DETERMINED YOUNG LADY WITH A GUN, THEY WOULD RATHER RETREAT, THAN GET SHOT. CALIBER IS INSIGNIFICANT, IN SUCH A SCENARIO. EVEN IF THEY SURVIVE, THEY WOULD BE FACED WITH THE NEED TO SEEK MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR A GUNSHOT WOUND. IT JUST GETS TOO COMPLICATED, AND MESSY.......

OF COURSE, IF THE CRIMINAL IS INCAPABLE OF THAT LEVEL OF CRITICAL THINKING--BY REASON OF A LOW IQ, OR DUE TO BEING HIGH ON DRUGS, OR BOTH--A CYLINDER FULL OF HI-VEL, 40GR, .22LR, IS CAPABLE OF DOING A LOT OF DAMAGE, AND MAY PUT AN END TO THREAT, ALTOGETHER......

I THINK THAT YA DONE GOOD, Old cop.........
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:00 PM
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I got a .38 S&W Terrier for my wife and bought some BB 125 gr. For it.
I haven't shot them yet, so no range report.
Just shot the standard .38s&w to get her comfortable with the gun.
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:02 PM
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If my daughter wanted a gun, I'd give her one of my 38s. Good choice.
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:54 PM
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I think the .32 RP loaded with the BB flat nose bullet would do just fine and allow one more cartridge on board.
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