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View Poll Results: For EDC SD CARRY what is the least capacity you will accept with one spare mag
6 rounds 28 24.56%
8 rounds 19 16.67%
10 rounds 9 7.89%
12 rounds 8 7.02%
15 rounds 5 4.39%
17 rounds 3 2.63%
OK with whatever I have at the time 42 36.84%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-28-2018, 10:09 AM
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Default Self defense everyday carry minimum capacity acceptable with one spare mag

6 rounds
8 rounds
10 rounds
12 rounds
15 rounds
17 rounds
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:17 AM
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My EDC holds 12. And I don't carry a 2nd magazine.

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Old 03-28-2018, 10:18 AM
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It’s an interesting question. Does anyone have a documented non law enforcement self-defense incident in which a reload was needed? Not doubting it has happened or carrying a reload is a good idea, just asking the question.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Itís an interesting question. Does anyone have a documented non law enforcement self-defense incident in which a reload was needed? Not doubting it has happened or carrying a reload is a good idea, just asking the question.
Indeed a good question....in a non LEO situation not sure there was ever a reload needed ..... but as they always say, rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it...
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:30 AM
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Posted in Concealed Carry & Self Defense Forum................so

Where is "5"....... lots of folks here carry J-frames and no reloads...... must be hundreds of threads!!!

Me, carrying a auto today it's "16" rounds 7(flush fit mag)+1 in my S&W 3913 plus a spare 8rd mag.

Back in the day it was "13" in a Walther PPK
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Posted in Concealed Carry & Self Defense Forum................so

Where is "5"....... lots of folks here carry J-frames and no reloads...... must be hundreds of threads!!!

Me, carrying a auto today it's "16" rounds 7(flush fit mag)+1 in my S&W 3913 plus a spare 8rd mag.

Back in the day it was "13" in a Walther PPK
Noted.....my bad....don't even think of wheel guns....don't care for them, they are not part of my consciousness.....
I will see if I can edit and add 5......

Sorry but I don't see a method to edit the poll and add anything....
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:35 AM
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My primary 7+1.....My bug, 7+1.

Got it covered.


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Old 03-28-2018, 10:37 AM
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My primary 7+1.....My bug, 7+1.

Got it covered.


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Let me take a WAG........ .45??????
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:42 AM
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5 in a J-frame.
7 in an auto, or I might as well carry a j-frame.

I carry a reload so I don't have an empty gun while waiting for the "first responders" (an ironic term, since I've already responded). It's hard to imagine reloading during a situation that I'm actively trying to remove myself from, but I suppose anything could happen.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:44 AM
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Let me take a WAG........ .45??????

Yup, you bet..........




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Old 03-28-2018, 11:25 AM
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Itís an interesting question. Does anyone have a documented non law enforcement self-defense incident in which a reload was needed? Not doubting it has happened or carrying a reload is a good idea, just asking the question.
There have been, but generally very rare. The story of the jewelry dealer in L.A. who was involved in multiple gunfights and had to use multiple guns in each one, IIRC, comes to mind. I think his name was Lance Thomas. Ayoob has written about him. It should be noted that Thomas was working in a relatively high-risk occupation/location, so that may be a factor in determining how prevalent reloads are in self defense shootings in general.

However, Claude Werner has done a couple of analyses, one involving nearly 500 non-LE self defense shootings, and none of them involved a reload.

Ayoob has also said that reloads are rare, and when they did happen they almost never affected the outcome, though I can't remember if he was talking about all defensive shootings, including LE, or just non-LE.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:29 AM
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I carry a reload so I don't have an empty gun while waiting for the "first responders" (an ironic term, since I've already responded). It's hard to imagine reloading during a situation that I'm actively trying to remove myself from, but I suppose anything could happen.
Same here. The average 911 response time in my town is around 9 minutes last time I checked.

Plus, with semi-autos, malfunctions are often linked to mags so being able to replace the in-gun magazine can get the gun working again.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:40 AM
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Same here. The average 911 response time in my town is around 9 minutes last time I checked.

Plus, with semi-autos, malfunctions are often linked to mags so being able to replace the in-gun magazine can get the gun working again.
I absolutely agree on the malfunction point, but in reality, it's hard to see a situation where you would swap mags to get it running again, when you could use that time to get away. Again, I'm not saying it's not worth it to bring a reload (because I do, and it's not much of an inconvenience), but I do think we overestimate the value.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:47 AM
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I absolutely agree on the malfunction point, but in reality, it's hard to see a situation where you would swap mags to get it running again, when you could use that time to get away. Again, I'm not saying it's not worth it to bring a reload (because I do, and it's not much of an inconvenience), but I do think we overestimate the value.
Agreed. If one's gun stops working in the middle of a gunfight, whether due to running out of ammo or a malfunction, I think switching to Plan B, whether it's running away if possible or switching to another tool (muzzle punch, knife, hands, feet, dirty looks ( ), etc.), would likely be more prudent than trying to reload or clear a malfunction. Of course, this all depends on the specific circumstances.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:47 AM
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Depending on day, time of year, weather, 911 could be 45 min, ( One that I can document, on a sunny, June day). We are Covered by Sheriff & MSP ( State police ) but if you are on e place in the county and they are another 45 min is not out of the ordinary. Not the Deputies/ Troops fault, can only be so many places at once. That being said I was driving to a show downstate, I had gone 300+ miles when my Sigma mag started "raining" bullets!! The base plate cracked and came loose and dumped the cartridges. First and only time. But I had two backup mags. So I guess it would be as many as you need- I have not run out. Be Safe,
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:52 AM
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I always carry a reload, whether with a revolver or semi-auto. All mechanical things can fail, so with an auto, I prepare for a magazine malfunction. With a revolver, the only thing that will overcome a malfunction that disables the gun is a BUG, but the same can be true of a malfunctioning auto. Regardless, it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:02 PM
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Depending on day, time of year, weather, 911 could be 45 min, ( One that I can document, on a sunny, June day). We are Covered by Sheriff & MSP ( State police ) but if you are on e place in the county and they are another 45 min is not out of the ordinary. Not the Deputies/ Troops fault, can only be so many places at once. That being said I was driving to a show downstate, I had gone 300+ miles when my Sigma mag started "raining" bullets!! The base plate cracked and came loose and dumped the cartridges. First and only time. But I had two backup mags. So I guess it would be as many as you need- I have not run out. Be Safe,

That's the way it is around my neck of the woods.

One is kinda on their own....The Sheriff or State may be 30 min to an hour out.

I intervening in a slight domestic in a grocery store parking lot one time (I was in plain clothes) one of the players sed she was gonna call the Law (common phrase for the police)....

I identified myself and ask, jest what did she want to call me.

Anyway all ended well......No gun fight ensued.


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Old 03-28-2018, 12:20 PM
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People can do what they feel comfortable with, but I always carry an extra mag if I an carrying an autoloader. If only for a malfunction. Twice in my career my partner at the time had their magazine come out of their service weapon. Both occurred on gun runs. Both times they instantly replaced the magazines and carried on. Two different partners 2 years apart. Both while bailing from the cruiser. While I was a firearms instructor for the same agency I witnessed many a time magazine failures from falling out of the gun, improper re-assembly or factory defect. An extra magazine gives me an option, however unlikely i may need it. Just my .02$
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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My EDC is a 5 shot 642 38 special +P

Let's be real guys. For civilian self defense IMHO carrying any more than your pistols capacity is unnecessary weight. We are not LEO's nor do engage in tactical situations. I carry as a last resort in saving my life, run away if I have to...
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:53 PM
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Bottom line...there is no "RIGHT" answer...... to each their own..... what you feel comfortable with is what you should carry..........
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:56 PM
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The reason I carry a spare magazine is far less due to the need for a reload than for a need to replace a magazine due to a malfunction of some sort.

I carry a spare 5 rounds when I carry my 642, just because.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:18 PM
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JMO, world would be a safer place if everyone had a two shot derringer in thier pocket, so 5 or more is just gravy.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Itís an interesting question. Does anyone have a documented non law enforcement self-defense incident in which a reload was needed? Not doubting it has happened or carrying a reload is a good idea, just asking the question.
I've looked for over 20 years...and found one I think... Have asked a number of gun writers and big name self defense trainers and they have none...

If someone has a documented case where someone either ran out of ammo and was shot or did reload and shots were fired after the reload I would love the information on it...

Last stats I saw LEOs reloaded 7% of the gunfights they were involved in...

Bob
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:46 PM
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7 rounds, no spare mag.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:09 PM
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The number of rounds has absolutely no impact on my EDC choice. I carry a PCR because the no safety/decocker action makes me feel safer, and because it works so well for me that it makes me a better shooter.
If it came in a single stack, I might prefer that, and sacrifice rounds.
The PCR is 14+1, and I bring a spare mag for all semis I carry, or two speed loaders for revolvers.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:20 PM
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Said it here many times. If you have to reload, it's no longer self defense, it's a fire fight. If that's the case, you're in deep excrement no matter what you're carrying. My 9c's 12+1, If that's not enough, it just ain't my day.
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Old 03-28-2018, 02:35 PM
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The reason I carry a spare magazine is far less due to the need for a reload than for a need to replace a magazine due to a malfunction of some sort.
And THIS my friends is why I carry and advocate the use of revolvers for self defense. I can go on for days why but here are a few of my top reasons.

#1. Most modern semi auto's are incredibly reliable.

However, and I've seen experienced shooters do this at the range when they're not even under any pressure. Is they'll get a light strike or dud and they'll have that "knee jerk reaction" of pulling the trigger again, and nothing happens. You'll have to manually rack the slide, chamber a new round. Not so with a revolver. If in the event you get a malfunction with a revolver, you pull the trigger, nothing happens, it just goes "click", You pull the trigger again as a knee jerk reaction what happens? The cylinder rotates, cocks the hammer & the gun fires the next round. Unless tap & rack is a part of your daily/weekly training, it makes better sense to seriously consider a revolver.

#2. Semi auto's can jam on clothing if fired from undercover such as a coat pocket, revolvers with concealed hammers will not, such as my 642.

#3. And finally, raise your hand if you've seen guys at the range with their semi auto's rapid firing. I know more times than not, I've seen guys at the range blazing away. With revolvers, generally you shoot at a slower pace, theoretically ( ) becoming a better shot as you gain experience.

My thoughts & opinions. We all differ, but no one here is more right or wrong, it's really up to you to decide what's best for your needs.
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Old 03-28-2018, 04:21 PM
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Depending on day, time of year, weather, 911 could be 45 min, ( One that I can document, on a sunny, June day). We are Covered by Sheriff & MSP ( State police ) but if you are on e place in the county and they are another 45 min is not out of the ordinary. Not the Deputies/ Troops fault, can only be so many places at once. That being said I was driving to a show downstate, I had gone 300+ miles when my Sigma mag started "raining" bullets!! The base plate cracked and came loose and dumped the cartridges. First and only time. But I had two backup mags. So I guess it would be as many as you need- I have not run out. Be Safe,
Just sayin' in 40 years of handling revolvers I have never had a piece of plastic break rendering the firearm inoperable.
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Old 03-28-2018, 05:48 PM
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Having been issued both revolvers and semi's I have a slightly different take on the reliability issue.

Most modern semi's are, as noted above, incredibly reliable if feed decent ammo through good magazines. Most malfunctions are ammo/magazine related in some manner and can be readily cleared. OK, the immediate action drill has to be a conditioned reflex, it's still part of training.

On the other hand, many revolver malfunctions can tie the gun up so that if you don't have a backup, you're SOL. Let's look at a short list: ejector/extractor rod unscrews, high primer/debris under the extractor, cratered primer (if you've got a hammer spur a manly yank on the hammer may take care of the problem on those last two-but that requires training too).

So the revolver isn't as magical as one might think. Yes, I have had the cylinder lock up so that the trigger won't rotate the cylinder. I've also see folks put in a stupendous amount of effort trying instead of yanking the hammer back. I've also seen hammer noses break.

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Old 03-28-2018, 06:47 PM
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I've never had a mag fail, in fact, I've never had a gun fail. What am I doing wrong?
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:51 PM
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I feel discriminated against because I carry a 5 round snubby and a coupla quick strips.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:55 PM
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No need for extra mags. lol
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:59 PM
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Modern semi-autos just about always function as designed. Modern parachutes just about always function as designed. That said, I never ever see anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane wearing only one parachute.

Seriously, any malfunction that will put a revolver out of action, squib, piece breaks/ falls off will likewise put the semi out of action. But, in addition magazine issues and under/ overpowered or wrong shaped amminition play havoc with semi-autos.

In 40 years I have seen, oh, 100 times as many stoppages with semis than with wheel guns. Not saying that all of those put the semi out permanently, but momentarily can be real, real bad if it's the wrong moment. And yes, experts can clear jams 10 times as fast a a neophyte, but zero jams is probably the ideal.

Funniest stoppage I ever saw was a 1911 clone, the owner turned the gun 90 degrees counter clockwise and the takedown pin fell out. It took three people five minutes to find it in tall grass.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:05 PM
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Right now, I don't even carry a semi-auto.

I carry a Smith 36 and a speedloader.

When I worked days, I carried a 3 1/2" M1911 and an eight round magazine for a reload. I was concerned about Sudden Jihad Syndrome.

Now, I'm lucky if I see anybody at all on the way home. Even the gas stations are closed.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:09 PM
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10+1 I don't always carry a spare mag. I am working on that though I want to carry my spare mag more frequently.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:23 PM
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7+1 and a J frame with 1 speed loader and 1 speed strip .
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
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I've never had a mag fail, in fact, I've never had a gun fail. What am I doing wrong?
You're not shooting enough
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:34 PM
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If I'm carrying iwb then 7, if back pocket I usually carry 13 in my recluse. Gun plus one mag.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:07 PM
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A 1911 or an 8+1 9mm is fine for me as an edc (go anywhere) gun.

I do like the 17+1 or 20+1 option on my Beretta 92fs, but double stacks do get bulky.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:19 PM
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I always carry a reload or two.

It's a personal choice we each must make. No right or wrong here. And there are no reliable statistics to read on the subject. Anything can happen anytime, anywhere. Especially these days.

I can't run or retreat as fast. My wife is usually with me. Due to her rheumatoid arthritis, she can't either. No way in hell am I going to explain to her why I didn't bring enough ammo.

I would rather be over prepared and carrying spare ammo is not in any way an inconvenience. And as I've said before, I'll be dipped if I empty my gun in a self defense situation and have to wait for the cops holding an empty gun.

"Chance prepares the favored mind"
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:06 PM
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7 + 1 plus a second mag with 7 = 15.
Is that how you meant it?
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomkinsSP View Post
Just sayin' in 40 years of handling revolvers I have never had a piece of plastic break rendering the firearm inoperable.
Revolvers yes, but steel or plastic auto's can become one shot guns with a bad mag. Just Sayin' Be Safe,
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:26 AM
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I carry a .38 Special J-frame, and sometimes a speed strip. Sometimes not.

Do the math.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:31 AM
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As for capacity, I'm good with 5,6 or 8. That would be a 642, Model 13 or a 1911 as these are the guns I carry most.
I always carry a reload. I'm not even sure why anymore. Its just a habit.
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:40 AM
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While I agree that if you chose to carry a reload that is your choice, it is a idea to have one just in case.

A spare speed strip is nothing to conceal in a pocket and frankly when I carry a semi-auto I also have a pocket carrier for a mag that keeps it oriented and out of the way.

The one scenario that is being overlooked with the semi-auto is the close in self defense shooting where you defend yourself and due to the distance and possible contact your gun malfunctions.

Clearly a spare magazine for a malfunction drill would be safer and more practical to get your semi-auto up and running while waiting on the authorities to arrive.
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Old 03-29-2018, 02:51 AM
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Default Considering the liklihood of.....

....multiple crazed attackers i'd like at least 8 rounds.

Each gets one shot, I can get eight.

Both get two shots each, i can get four

Three shots each I can get two and two thirds.

Four shots each I can get two

If there's just one, he gets all eight.

Eight shots gets one.

I hope that they will be confused by all of this math and boogy out and save me the trouble of counting.

It wouldn't be hard to go to a nine round mag, but I'm not going to do the progression.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:42 AM
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Going to walk one of my dogs this early morning. Even with my XD Mod 2 and 40 rounds of Federal HST +P, I'll have my BG 380 and I take the extra 380 mag just for goofs bringing the total hollow point round count to 53.
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Old 03-29-2018, 04:52 AM
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Since I often pack my 640-1, I’d have to say 5, with or without a reload.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:14 AM
Dave Lively Dave Lively is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipermd View Post
Revolvers yes, but steel or plastic auto's can become one shot guns with a bad mag. Just Sayin' Be Safe,
I have had bad magazines that caused my semi-autos to malfunction but I have never had a good magazine suddenly go bad in a way that makes the gun a one shot. I do have a magazine with a +1 base plate for my Glock 43 where the spring seems to be getting a little weaker and the slide sometimes rides over the last round instead of chambering it. But that just takes away the +1 and it is not a stock magazine.

I do not carry a spare magazine so I never practice tactical reloads. Dropping mags to the ground and stepping on them can bend the feed lips or let in dirt that can cause binding. Practicing tactical reloads because you have had magazines go bad greatly increases the chances of one of your magazines going bad. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

If I did feel the need to carry a spare magazine I would practice letting them fall to the ground and quickly reloading. But magazines I practiced that way with would not be used for carry.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
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Going to walk one of my dogs this early morning. Even with my XD Mod 2 and 40 rounds of Federal HST +P, I'll have my BG 380 and I take the extra 380 mag just for goofs bringing the total hollow point round count to 53.
Wow ..... tough neighborhood or a pack of wolves???? You are the poster child for needing the Mossberg Shokwave
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