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  #51  
Old 04-01-2018, 02:18 PM
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Default The context of this thread makes your post an affront.

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Originally Posted by iPac View Post
All you big tough ready at a moments notice to kill a dog, I hope you all have more common sense than what you portray across these boards.

When it comes to dogs, it really helps to be a DOG PERSON. If you don't like dogs, are never around dogs, and especially don't UNDERSTAND dogs, then I"m going to say your shoot first ask questions later will probably get you in trouble sooner or later.

Just because a dog runs in your direction, viciously barks at you, or BOTH, doesn't mean the dog will do anything. I know a little sheltie that will run up on you barking with "destruction" but is too scared to make contact. You going to shoot that little sheltie because it strikes "fear" in you?

What about the German Shepherd in my yard that will immediately start barking at a stranger (scarily) and even run toward the stranger staying within the perimeter of my yard (won't leave perimeter), you going to shoot it because it strikes "fear" in you? Even though it won't leave the yard and won't bite or make contact? How do you know it's trained like that? You don't.

The point being, is your "fear" or "perceived threat" ACTUALLY a threat? It's not that easy of a question/answer for the reasons I mention.

I'm sorry, but I can take a bite to the forearm before I put an animal down, or if the dog isn't big enough to pose life threatening injuries then surely I'm not going to do anything to it, regardless of how "mean" or "scary" it may be. The only time would be extremely large aggressive dogs that may put me in "fight" mode. Although, if you really understand dogs most situations can be de-escalated or avoided. However, most "dog people" don't even truly understand dogs. The rest of the populace I find to be completely unhinged when it comes to dogs and interacting with dogs. There is a reason Ceasar Milan can train dogs that nobody else can even approach.

Sounds like too much living in fear for some. I'm far more concerned about 2 legged threats, much harder to deal with.
The dog in question necessitated it's dispatching there was NO question. When I jog outdoors, I am extremely vulnerable to external threats. As fast as a loose dog can be, I wouldn't risk waiting to find out whether it's vicious or not.

That said, I'm considering the best of circumstances.

It's unfortunate that an animal could meet it's demise, when the owner may deserve a bullet.
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:37 PM
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I love my dogs and have trained guard dogs, detection dogs and all breed hunting dogs. I walk mine on a leash carry a 38 snub nose and a big stick. Protecting myself or my dog from a Pit or other aggressive dog if the stick won't work you do what you have to do.
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:51 PM
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I remember back in grade 8 walking or riding my bike by a large German Shepard everyday. It would bark the odd time.

But one day it rushed me while riding by and bite down on the left cheek of my backside and I fell off the bike. It kept lunging at me so I picked up a rock about the size of your fist and tossed it.

It was a good toss and the dog limped away.

No sooner than I got home and the cops came to the door accusing me of throwing the rock at a friendly dog and breaking it's leg. Telling my father he was going to pay for the vet bills and I would be charged.

He asked me what happened and I told them both. I then pulled my pants down to show the two holes blood and bruising.

Never heard anymore about it after that show and tell other than the dog died on the table.

Never trusted another dog after that for years and I am still wary today. I always carry a old nine iron while walking through the streets even today and have used it only once in all these years. It's a useful walking stick.
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Old 04-01-2018, 04:13 PM
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. . .
It's unfortunate that an animal could meet it's demise, when the owner may deserve a bullet.
Wait, what ? ? ?
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Old 04-01-2018, 04:42 PM
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My plan for getting chased or bitten by your dog is as nonexistent as my plan for what to do if bigfoot sideswipes my parked car with a flying saucer while he's intoxicated.
You should have a plan...
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:14 PM
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More reasons why melee weapon laws that ban batons, saps, etc. need to be redacted. I'd imagine even the toughest pooch wouldn't fare well against a blackjack to the snout!
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2018, 05:43 PM
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If you listen to the video of the shooter speaking, near the beginning you can hear a lady in the background saying - "they shot that poor baby".

SMH
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:51 PM
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You should have a plan...
I didn't say I didn't have a plan.

I said it didn't involve getting chased or bitten.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:31 PM
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Default Again, context is everything.

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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Wait, what ? ? ?
The dog was just being a dog, vicious or not. It was the owner's responsibility to have it under control at all times. It may very well have been trained to be the way it was...the owner deserved a bullet for being a threat to others, through his gross negligence.

I'm not saying anyone should actually shoot him, just that he deserves a taste of what his dog got.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:50 PM
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The Commonwealth Attorney in this case is a common sense guy, have seen him at gun shows and he is from a family of hunters and sportsmen.
Not surprising that the firearm was returned in a short time frame.

Most lawyers don't have much common sense...
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by silentflyer View Post
The Commonwealth Attorney in this case is a common sense guy, have seen him at gun shows and he is from a family of hunters and sportsmen.
Not surprising that the firearm was returned in a short time frame.

Most lawyers don't have much common sense...
Know him personally. Went to same high school. He is an old school VMI grad. Also supportive of LEOs and a fair man.
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  #62  
Old 04-01-2018, 08:57 PM
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I'd imagine even the toughest pooch wouldn't fare well against a blackjack to the snout!
And you'd be wrong. I've seen dogs beaten with a baseball bat and still not let go.

Yes, some dogs will indeed back down if you whack them in the right spot. Of course that's a small spot and moving fast. A cloud of pepper spray is better and if that fails a bullet will penetrate...
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:07 PM
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And you'd be wrong. I've seen dogs beaten with a baseball bat and still not let go.

Yes, some dogs will indeed back down if you whack them in the right spot. Of course that's a small spot and moving fast. A cloud of pepper spray is better and if that fails a bullet will penetrate...
I mentioned this on another thread. I know a fella who had to shoot a dog three times, point blank, with a Glock 23, to get it to let go of his triceps . . .
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:28 AM
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As many of us know dogs can do some serious damage to humans. My brother was attacked by next door neighbors Mastiff. The dog show no aggressive behavior prior. Knocked him down from behind and took a small chunk out of his left shoulder. Needed stitches and medical attention. He was concerned about nerve damage in left arm / hand. Could have hurt his career as he is a commercial pilot and was out of work for some days afterwards. Fortunately it healed.

Dog bites and attacks on people are serious business.
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  #65  
Old 04-02-2018, 10:16 AM
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As many of us know dogs can do some serious damage to humans. My brother was attacked by next door neighbors Mastiff. The dog show no aggressive behavior prior. Knocked him down from behind and took a small chunk out of his left shoulder. Needed stitches and medical attention. He was concerned about nerve damage in left arm / hand. Could have hurt his career as he is a commercial pilot and was out of work for some days afterwards. Fortunately it healed.

Dog bites and attacks on people are serious business.
What was done regarding the dog, and more importantly the owner?

There are those who think you should be willing to allow yourself to be mauled by their dogs to avoid harm to said uncontrolled animals. I wonder how fast their opinions would change if a commercial pilot sought legal redress against them because he no longer had a career.

Every pilot I've ever known flew because he loved it. Take that away from them, and they'd blow the deguello, no quarter asked or given.

I don't know about your brother, but if I lost a career as a pilot because somebody didn't control their dog, the owner would wish that instead I'd shot the dog AND him, because I'd pull him through every criminal and civil knothole known to man and a few hitherto unimagined.

I dare an irresponsible dog owner to look somebody in the eye and tell them that their childhood dream is less important than their vicious animal.
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  #66  
Old 04-02-2018, 11:23 AM
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I was out walking my Akita when a German shepherd came from nowhere and attacked him. I was carrying thank god there was no need to draw the gun I drop the leash and let my Akita do his thing and the dog backed off. If it was a little dog it would’ve been really ugly. Irresponsible dog owners I hate it. My Akita will protect me and fight to the death. It’s very scary sight to watch two dogs over 100 pounds fighting.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:50 AM
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I was out walking my Akita when a German shepherd came from nowhere and attacked him. I was carrying thank god there was no need to draw the gun I drop the leash and let my Akita do his thing and the dog backed off. If it was a little dog it would’ve been really ugly. Irresponsible dog owners I hate it. My Akita will protect me and fight to the death. It’s very scary sight to watch two dogs over 100 pounds fighting.
In Ohio it's unlawful to shoot a dog to protect another dog. Chickens, sheep, etc., are another matter.

Of course while I'm aware of a number of instances where dog owners shot aggressive dogs to protect their own dogs, I'm unaware of any instance where the defensive party was prosecuted.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:03 PM
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In Ohio it's unlawful to shoot a dog to protect another dog. Chickens, sheep, etc., are another matter.

Of course while I'm aware of a number of instances where dog owners shot aggressive dogs to protect their own dogs, I'm unaware of any instance where the defensive party was prosecuted.
I think my dog was thinking he was protecting me from the dog.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:26 PM
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I was attacked by a dog once, he just grabbed my right arm,
that got me thinking... If i have a gun on me it would be sitting
on my right hip.
How do i pull my gun if a dog is attached to my wrist?

It is really a non problem for me as i'm not allowed to carry in Sweden
but how would you do?

The dog owner was at hand and defused the situation and later took the dog to a vet.
As someone said here "not all dogs can be saved"
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:00 PM
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"It is really a non problem for me as i'm not allowed to carry in Sweden
but how would you do?"

Kill the dog with my left arm.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:25 PM
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I was attacked by a dog once, he just grabbed my right arm,
that got me thinking... If i have a gun on me it would be sitting
on my right hip.
How do i pull my gun if a dog is attached to my wrist?

It is really a non problem for me as i'm not allowed to carry in Sweden
but how would you do?

The dog owner was at hand and defused the situation and later took the dog to a vet.
As someone said here "not all dogs can be saved"


Ah, I'd jest draw my other pistol....ridin on my left hip.


*But seriously, a well designed cross-draw holster will allow the sidearm to be drawn with either hand.


.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:00 PM
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How do i pull my gun if a dog is attached to my wrist?

It is really a non problem for me as i'm not allowed to carry in Sweden
but how would you do?
You'll get lots of smart alec remarks to this along with a lot of internet bravado, but it's a serious question. The answer is to get the gun with your left hand.

Yes, it will be a challenge, but you can do it. Because it's difficult, it's a move that should be practiced. It's a little advanced and I don't recommend doing it until there's plenty of practice presenting with the shooting hand, but it should be done. You don't need to be an expert or a quick draw, but should obtain some familiarity with the move.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:39 PM
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I'm a dog lover and own a beautiful 1 year old black lab. I walk him almost every morning. It's a one mile trip around the block and back to my house.

I have a neighbor who keeps two pit bulls in a very small fence with very little out time that I know of. Every morning when we approach their home they bark ferociously as we pass by. If they were to somehow get out of that fence I feel pretty sure either I or my lab would be attacked, probably both.

That's why I carry a shield 45 every morning. If they get out and come running towards me I'm not going to try and figure out if they are just bluffing or if they will stop short or if I'm going to take a bite to the arm... as soon as I feel comfortable with the shot... adios....no second thoughts at all, they are going down.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:10 PM
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I'm a dog lover and own a beautiful 1 year old black lab. I walk him almost every morning. It's a one mile trip around the block and back to my house.

I have a neighbor who keeps two pit bulls in a very small fence with very little out time that I know of. Every morning when we approach their home they bark ferociously as we pass by. If they were to somehow get out of that fence I feel pretty sure either I or my lab would be attacked, probably both.

That's why I carry a shield 45 every morning. If they get out and come running towards me I'm not going to try and figure out if they are just bluffing or if they will stop short or if I'm going to take a bite to the arm... as soon as I feel comfortable with the shot... adios....no second thoughts at all, they are going down.
If you can walk across the street, I'd do it. Heck, maybe alternate my route. I realize you shouldn't have to do that but it may be worth it. For one thing, maybe you'll get a few extra steps and your pooch will get some more quality time with you.

It sucks that people seem to get their jollies trying to intimidate innocent folk.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:43 AM
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You'll get lots of smart alec remarks .
I wouldn't have it any other way

This dog was a "Swat" dog so killing with the left hand would be a challenge

I was just talking to the owner, when it launched at me.
I played it cool and didn't move, just let the owner remove it from my arm
He was very understanding and had no problem "putting it to sleep"

I understand that placing of a CCW holster is vital and training with it likewise. Crime rate is going up here in Sweden (not counting dog's )
so i hope CCW will be something for us to.
Just have to do with my battle ax until that happens
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:25 AM
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Just have to do with my battle ax until that happens

Are you Scandinavian boys STILL using those?

Andy
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:57 AM
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Follow up. Pistol has been returned to bystander. ,380. No charges for shooting the dog. Charges being investigated against owner. Check Roanoke.com for today's story.



Sure glad to hear the investigating agency did the correct thing.


Good ending all the way around.




.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:18 AM
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Are you Scandinavian boys STILL using those?

Andy
Can't have a gun for selfdefence .....
Aways cary an ax in my car
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Qball View Post
Can't have a gun for selfdefence .....
Aways cary an ax in my car

My previous post was a feeble attempt at humor; I thought you were doing your part to preserve a 1000+ year-old tradition.

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Old 04-03-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
I doubt that it is illegal to fire a gun in self defense, even within the city limits. So, as I said before, no illegal act was committed but his gun was taken.
I 99% of any municipality, even in a SD situation, you are breaking the law by discharging a weapon. If it is truly SD, that is often waved. If not found in an honest SD situation, discharging a weapon in the city limits gets added on.
I walk my dog almost every night. I am right on the edge of a wilderness area & see coyotes all the time, sometimes aggressive dogs. I have never needed a gun to solve any confrontation. Ya gotta start wondering *** is going on that you keep getting "attacked"????
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by snowman View Post
My previous post was a feeble attempt at humor; I thought you were doing your part to preserve a 1000+ year-old tradition.

Regards,
Andy

Don't worry It was mostly a joke from my side to
I Do have an ax in my car thou, but not for SD
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
I would walk somewhere else. And also stop telling people online. Especially the "defensive display" part. That's kind of bizarre if you're talking about a dog, and pretty much a prosecutor's dream.

This isn't the first time this has come up, dude. A gun isn't a license to make bad decisions. Yes, rah-rah-rah, this is America and I should be allowed to walk wherever I want. I still don't walk through such fine local attractions as Arbor Hill or Crossgates Mall, because such a thing is frankly foolish. Having to draw a gun is a loss, and not something to be proudly boasting about on the interwebz.

One of these days, you're going to screw up, and a jury's going to nail you to a wall when they hear that after all these incidents, and all the times police contacted you, you kept doing the same damn thing.

Either that, or you're just trolling. Which I would find easier to believe than somebody being this bad at learning a lesson.
I gave this a "like" not because I agree with every single word, and not because I disagree with those who posted differently, but because having an intelligent, well-thought-out opinion is one thing, and demonstrating intelligence by posting one's opinion ex pre facto on the internet is quite another.

Further deponent sayeth not [or is it naught?].

Last edited by Model520Fan; 04-03-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by adwjc View Post
While this might be legal in a technical sense in your jurisdiction, it is brandishing in most places; however the larger point is this - you are, to use your own words - "defensively displaying" a firearm to an animal, and although I have met some intelligent dogs, most don't rise to the level of understanding beyond that of a three year old child.

In these confrontations, you are supposed to be smarter participant - your explanation of your actions doesn't exhibit that.
I am not sure that I agree with your whole argument. While I agree with your caution concerening the law in varying jurisdictions, I'm not so sure about the intelligence of dogs. I encountered one once, on foot, well within 100yd of my home. We exchanged "words," all of them barked, and my Improved Model 56 ended up in my hand. No physical attack came from either party.

It is quite possible that my demeanor, minus the Improved 56, would have sufficed to inform canis anonymous of my intentions. Who knows for sure?

All's well that ends well?
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by iPac View Post
All you big tough ready at a moments notice to kill a dog, I hope you all have more common sense than what you portray across these boards.

When it comes to dogs, it really helps to be a DOG PERSON. If you don't like dogs, are never around dogs, and especially don't UNDERSTAND dogs, then I"m going to say your shoot first ask questions later will probably get you in trouble sooner or later.

Just because a dog runs in your direction, viciously barks at you, or BOTH, doesn't mean the dog will do anything. I know a little sheltie that will run up on you barking with "destruction" but is too scared to make contact. You going to shoot that little sheltie because it strikes "fear" in you?

What about the German Shepherd in my yard that will immediately start barking at a stranger (scarily) and even run toward the stranger staying within the perimeter of my yard (won't leave perimeter), you going to shoot it because it strikes "fear" in you? Even though it won't leave the yard and won't bite or make contact? How do you know it's trained like that? You don't.

The point being, is your "fear" or "perceived threat" ACTUALLY a threat? It's not that easy of a question/answer for the reasons I mention.

I'm sorry, but I can take a bite to the forearm before I put an animal down, or if the dog isn't big enough to pose life threatening injuries then surely I'm not going to do anything to it, regardless of how "mean" or "scary" it may be. The only time would be extremely large aggressive dogs that may put me in "fight" mode. Although, if you really understand dogs most situations can be de-escalated or avoided. However, most "dog people" don't even truly understand dogs. The rest of the populace I find to be completely unhinged when it comes to dogs and interacting with dogs. There is a reason Ceasar Milan can train dogs that nobody else can even approach.

Sounds like too much living in fear for some. I'm far more concerned about 2 legged threats, much harder to deal with.
I'm not taking a bite to the forearm if I can avoid it, and it is NOT incumbent on every citizen to be a "dog person" and understand every antisocial or non-antisocial intention of a dog. Dogs and dog owners beware.

Nevertheless, I agree that many or most dogs do demonstrate territoriality, and demonstrate what seems to be offensive intent INSIDE their territory. However, it seems to me that most extend the area about a couple of yards beyond what the law prescribes. IMO, the human who is appropriately aggressive in response to a dog is well advised not to get into a urination competition over a few yards. I have NEVER had to shoot a dog, but I have occasionally gotten slightly hoarse from "barking" back at them. I walk a lot.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cmort666 View Post
  1. I have NO DUTY AT ALL to be a "dog person". Love them or hate them, I have ZERO duty toward them beyond not actively abusing or provoking them. Walking down a public thoroughfare, or standing some place I have a legal right to be, ESPECIALLY my own property is NOT abusing or provoking them.
  2. EVERY dog owner has a LEGAL DUTY to control his animal(s) such that they are not a danger to innocent third parties.
  3. I don't need to "understand" your dog. You need to CONTROL your dog. If you can't, somebody else will do it for you, maybe with an M1911.
  4. If your sixteen year old son pulls a knife or a gun and tries to rob me, the law says I don't need to be a "thug person". The LAW says that if he puts me in an immediate and credible fear of life and limb, and I cannot withdraw IN PERFECT SAFETY (and that leaves aside "stand your ground" laws), I have the right to shoot him until he's no longer a threat. Are you telling me I have to risk life and limb to protect a DOG where I wouldn't have to to protect a PERSON?
Let me make this perfectly clear:

I don't love YOUR dog.

I love my limbs and my life.

One of those is going to come first, ten times out of ten.
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I cannot "like" this more than once. This quote will have to suffice for the second "like."

BTW, FTF I probably WOULD love your dog. I would still protect myself with what I believe are the same rules that cmort666 would use.

Last edited by Model520Fan; 04-03-2018 at 04:19 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Qball View Post
I Do have an ax in my car thou, but not for SD
You need one of these:

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Old 04-04-2018, 10:18 AM
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I Do have an ax in my car thou, but not for SD
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
You need one of these:


Way ahead of you sir
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by silentflyer View Post
The Commonwealth Attorney in this case is a common sense guy, have seen him at gun shows and he is from a family of hunters and sportsmen.
Not surprising that the firearm was returned in a short time frame.

Most lawyers don't have much common sense...
I came onto the scene late and scrolled straight past the internet bickering. So what was the outcome of this case?
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
I came onto the scene late and scrolled straight past the internet bickering. So what was the outcome of this case?
No charges, gun returned within a couple of days, apparently without initials gouged in it or the intervention of a highly paid legal team.
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