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Old 03-30-2018, 11:58 AM
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Default What NOT To Do (ATM at night, ... Guy Winds Up Dead)

Man using an ATM at night, little or no situational awareness ...
Click link to get to the video.

Liveleak.com - Surveillance video captures fatal shooting at ATM
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:28 PM
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For crying out loud, why would you wrestle with a guy with a gun? It's just money.

And, yes, both his and his female friend's situational awareness was right out the window.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
For crying out loud, why would you wrestle with a guy with a gun? It's just money.

And, yes, both his and his female friend's situational awareness was right out the window.
Cause most of the time you'll be shot anyways.
I'm born & raised Chicago and the bad guys don't care, killing is a right of passage for them.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:39 PM
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Default FIRST 3 THOUGHTS...

ATM's work in the daytime.
Nice heads up by the "friend" waiting in the car.
JUST GIVE IT UP.
The BG has been busy, I guess the Judge thought the 15th time was the charm. When KIDS have more arrests/convictions than birthdays, YA THINK they might be a career criminal ???
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:44 PM
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Boy....this is one subject I preach to all my friends about...especially the female ones......night time ATM's at some banks is just a mugging waiting to happen.......There are always ATM's in safer places if you need cash at night.....Places like Sheets and others are no-fee withdrawal.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:44 PM
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Default NOTIFY THE STONEMASON.

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Cause most of the time you'll be shot anyways.
His family can put that on his tombstone. Died trying to save 40$.

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Old 03-30-2018, 01:00 PM
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"The final weapon is the brain, all else is supplemental."
John Steinbeck
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Old 03-30-2018, 02:56 PM
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If we need cash late, I’m standing guard head on swivel alert. Just to look at us a bad guy would know something is up and this ain’t worth the trouble.
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Old 03-30-2018, 07:44 PM
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Quoting from text accompanying video:

"Hill has been arrested 15 other times in South Florida since 2011 on various charges, including petty theft, grand theft, burglary and robbery.

Hill has been in jail without bond since his arrest. He is being charged as an adult and could face life in prison if convicted."

I have two questions. They're pretty much rhetorical questions, because I don't expect any forum members have the answers.

My questions are:

Why was Hill out of jail roaming the streets in the first place?

And...

Florida has the death penalty. Why didn't the district attorney pursue that as a sentence instead of this thing of he "could face life in prison"?

We see this same level of recidivism by the hoodlums and poor decision making on the part of the district attorney here. And we see it on an almost weekly basis. Just a week or so, we had a guy charged with first degree murder. The judge set bail, his family put up the money, and he bonded out in two days.

What's wrong with this picture?

It's a sad state of affairs.
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:19 AM
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As a young LEO, I was told by an old street wise officer that " people will kill you for the chocolate in your shorts" and nothing I experienced in the next 37 years proved him wrong.
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Old 03-31-2018, 01:27 AM
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Typical male idiot ego proved fatal for this man.

A quick call to the police department and bank would have rectified the situation. There was absolutely ZERO reason for the guy to give chase and try and take on the attacker with a gun... unbelievable.
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:58 AM
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Typical male idiot ego proved fatal for this man.

A quick call to the police department and bank would have rectified the situation. There was absolutely ZERO reason for the guy to give chase and try and take on the attacker with a gun... unbelievable.
And the bank would do what?
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:48 AM
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He was very brave and stood up for what was his. Its not about the money. He died for what he believed in. Don't need to denigrate what he did. He fought back and lost. If he would have got the gun away from thug and shot him he would be lauded as a hero. He still is a hero.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:45 AM
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A few years ago my son had a secretary who was a new citizen. Her son had recently got his first good job as a manager at an athletic shoe store. He worked till close and then the owner insisted that he take the days deposit to an ATM. He was shot and killed doing that. My son saw the video. The kid never had a chance.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Cause most of the time you'll be shot anyways.
I'm born & raised Chicago and the bad guys don't care, killing is a right of passage for them.
You may be right, but if they are going to just shoot you anyway, they'll probably shoot first and then take your money.

In this case, he did the right thing by chucking the money at the bad guy. His next move should have been toward cover. At least give the bad guy a chance to run. By trying to wrestle with the assailant, the bad guy had no choice. Also, it's just as likely the wrestling caused the gun to fire.

I agree that we need to fight. But it's more important to assess the threat level and use the correct response. This wasn't it.
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:03 AM
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You may be right, but if they are going to just shoot you anyway, they'll probably shoot first and then take your money.

In this case, he did the right thing by chucking the money at the bad guy. His next move should have been toward cover. At least give the bad guy a chance to run. By trying to wrestle with the assailant, the bad guy had no choice. Also, it's just as likely the wrestling caused the gun to fire.

I agree that we need to fight. But it's more important to assess the threat level and use the correct response. This wasn't it.
It's easier and faster to have the victim hand over their cash, wallet and Rolex than going thru the pockets and taking them off a dead body.
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:12 AM
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More of the same from those that plague society. I'm sure the cure is more gun control.
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Old 03-31-2018, 11:20 AM
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Default "IF". AND IF THE QUEEN HAD MALE PARTS, SHE'D BE KING.

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Originally Posted by Mr Pokeyman View Post
He was very brave and stood up for what was his. Its not about the money. He died for what he believed in. Don't need to denigrate what he did. He fought back and lost. If he would have got the gun away from thug and shot him he would be lauded as a hero. He still is a hero.
"DIED FOR WHAT HE BELIEVED IN". Well that makes it all better.
"IF" the corpse could be brought back to life & get a do-over, ya think he'd do the same thing? Foolish trumps "brave" all the time, look at ALL the hold my beer & watch this, epic fails. Been there and am lucky I'm here now. "IF" a life saving lesson can be learned by ANYONE, I doubt the victim or his family would mind him being used as a what NOT to do example. It's not a personal attack on his character.

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Old 03-31-2018, 11:52 AM
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See way to much of these thugs with long criminal records still being out on the streets. Guy never should have charged him but then again, thanks govt paid prosecutors and the stupid judges that agree to plea deals, this is what we get. The real culprits are these prosecutors and judges. And the idiots are all over.
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:47 PM
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Anything less than the death penalty is not acceptable to me. How long will it be before this clown is on the street again?

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Old 03-31-2018, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
It's easier and faster to have the victim hand over their cash, wallet and Rolex than going thru the pockets and taking them off a dead body.
You may have a good point. I'm still going to seek cover if possible rather than wrestle with the bad guy with the gun.
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:34 PM
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If the offender is under 18 and charged as an adult (I can't get to the site at work, FML), he cannot be given the death penalty. Under Miller, he is very unlikely to get a life sentence that withstands scrutiny.
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Old 03-31-2018, 05:53 PM
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If the offender is under 18 and charged as an adult (I can't get to the site at work, FML), he cannot be given the death penalty. Under Miller, he is very unlikely to get a life sentence that withstands scrutiny.
According to the article, the assailant is 17 (or was at the time) and is being charged as an adult. They also said that a life sentence was possible.

I assume that "Miller" is some supreme court case? Do you have a link? How is that relevant to this case?
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Old 03-31-2018, 06:29 PM
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Under FL's 10-20-life law, he's earned life.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
According to the article, the assailant is 17 (or was at the time) and is being charged as an adult. They also said that a life sentence was possible.

I assume that "Miller" is some supreme court case? Do you have a link? How is that relevant to this case?
May be in reference to:

Miller v. Alabama - Wikipedia

Miller was 14 YO at time of arrest.

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Old 03-31-2018, 09:38 PM
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One of my college wrestling partners was shot in the head and killed at an atm in Philly about 25 years ago. He was an Assistant DA in South New Jersey. Rick willingly handed over the $60 but was shot in the head anyway. The 17 year old who shot him was caught when he tried to use my dead friends DA Credentials. They did not look at all alike. Rick was super tough. And just as kind. He could have torn that ***’s head off.

I can’t express how much I viscerally loath vermin punk criminals. Someday America will say enough and fix this plague.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:50 PM
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I thought when REAL GUN CONTROL was passed in Florida (I mean the 10yr 20yr life law)Florida Statute 775.087 it might do some good. But has anyone even heard of its use???? Not me and watch for it. IMHO when situational awareness is forgotten bad things can and do happen.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:10 PM
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Situational awareness? I don’t believe the guy would have played it any other way. He did not at all appear frightened when the gun was pointing at him. He would not have run. I wish I could have given him my 28-2 to say hello to that scum.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:14 PM
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Obviously that 17 year old Child did not know he was not old enough to carry a handgun. Or that it is illegal for felons to carry guns. We need more government programs to educate criminals.
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Old 03-31-2018, 10:18 PM
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ATM Murders will always tear out my heart and flip my switch.
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  #31  
Old 03-31-2018, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
Quoting from text accompanying video:

"Hill has been arrested 15 other times in South Florida since 2011 on various charges, including petty theft, grand theft, burglary and robbery.

Hill has been in jail without bond since his arrest. He is being charged as an adult and could face life in prison if convicted."

I have two questions. They're pretty much rhetorical questions, because I don't expect any forum members have the answers.

My questions are:

Why was Hill out of jail roaming the streets in the first place?

And...

Florida has the death penalty. Why didn't the district attorney pursue that as a sentence instead of this thing of he "could face life in prison"?

We see this same level of recidivism by the hoodlums and poor decision making on the part of the district attorney here. And we see it on an almost weekly basis. Just a week or so, we had a guy charged with first degree murder. The judge set bail, his family put up the money, and he bonded out in two days.

What's wrong with this picture?

It's a sad state of affairs.

I bet Florida can not legally sentence a minor to death.

Google the Chief of Police in Chicago. He blames the legal system for not locking those convicted of violent gun crimes. In essence he said he is never surprised those he arrests had committed a murder. He has a hit-list with over 1,000 names that he keeps track of. He believes each is a high risk to commit murder. Yet the walk the streets.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 7shooter View Post
A few years ago my son had a secretary who was a new citizen. Her son had recently got his first good job as a manager at an athletic shoe store. He worked till close and then the owner insisted that he take the days deposit to an ATM. He was shot and killed doing that. My son saw the video. The kid never had a chance.
Yes I had employers like that noticed I said had. Worked for the largest Tire service Chain stores as a Manager. They made us as well take the drop to the bank. And that was way after dark every night. I always carried that was against policy. Many store managers got beat robbed and shot. Store never cared . Finally had enough told them keys are inside door come get um I am out
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Old 04-01-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
ATM's work in the daytime.
^^^ NG's right. Same-same gas stations. Both places draw bad guys at night like you-know-what draws flies and most people are in a world of their own at both places. It's over before the victim knows what hit them. I carry every day, and I don't go to either one at night. Why roll those dice?

Last edited by Donn; 04-01-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Pokeyman View Post
He was very brave and stood up for what was his. Its not about the money. He died for what he believed in. Don't need to denigrate what he did. He fought back and lost. If he would have got the gun away from thug and shot him he would be lauded as a hero. He still is a hero.
I beg to differ.

The decedent was dumb as a box of rocks.

He didn’t die for ‘what he believed in’, he died for doing something dumb: wrestling with a guy with a gun.

This wasn’t some principled act.

Nothing heroic here.

Last edited by Rpg; 04-01-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
Why was Hill out of jail roaming the streets in the first place?
Simple, it's Florida and he's a "juvenile." Just about no consequences under 18. He'll be out at 21. On another note, I have NEVER used an ATM in my life. I plan ahead and if'n I need cash, I go into the bank and get it. I enjoy interchange with people especially ones giving me money (even if it' s already mine). Joe
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  #36  
Old 04-01-2018, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Pokeyman View Post
He was very brave and stood up for what was his. Its not about the money. He died for what he believed in. Don't need to denigrate what he did. He fought back and lost. If he would have got the gun away from thug and shot him he would be lauded as a hero. He still is a hero.
In my opinion it is a fool who is willing to risk his life for $40, belief system be damned. Nothing heroic about that. A man needs to chose his battles wisely. This decision was not wise. It was a sad, tragic waste.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but that is how I see it.
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  #37  
Old 04-01-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tarsam View Post
More of the same from those that plague society. I'm sure the cure is more gun control.
Well, we NEED to do SOMETHING! How about raising the age of legal gun ownership to 21. Or, ban bump stocks. Yeah, that's the ticket...
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  #38  
Old 04-01-2018, 04:09 PM
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Well said by someone who nearly died from a gun crime.
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  #39  
Old 04-01-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
And the bank would do what?
Perhaps they would, I'm fairly certain mine would cover me (USAA) provided you send them the police reports etc. but I'm not sure. Might be able to be covered under personal property insurance but again I'm not positive.

Regardless, no amount of cash would be worth chasing after a man that just shoved A GUN in your face. Maybe to you it would be, but I know you make twice as much as me Senior and even I wouldn't do what the guy in this video did.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
It's just money.
...unless it isn't.

No plan I have ever had, have now, or will ever have involves trusting in the good judgment and basic human decency of an armed robber.

If I'm going to get shot, it's going to be in the front, not in the back of the head begging for my life.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
By trying to wrestle with the assailant, the bad guy had no choice.
He had EVERY choice NOT TO BE AN ARMED ROBBER. He wasn't drafted into the Armed Robber Army. He VOLUNTEERED.

If he "had no choice", then he'd have a valid claim of SELF-DEFENSE.

Claiming he "had no choice" is as surreal as claiming the Japanese "had no choice" except to bomb Pearl Harbor because we wouldn't actively assist their campaign of genocide in China.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:37 AM
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Think the family said, "it's fine, he was shot in the front of the head, at least it wasn't in the back of the head".
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
Think the family said, "it's fine, he was shot in the front of the head, at least it wasn't in the back of the head".
Whose example would you follow:
  • The Jew who got on the train without a fight.
  • Mordechai Anilewicz
They both died.

Some people think it's better to die having caused as little inconvenience to their murderers as possible.

I'm not one of them.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:45 PM
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I had a guy pull a gun on me and put it to my face. I drew mine and put it against his head. Another officer who was with me ran away. I guess he was the smart one. When back up arrived they saw him hiding and he was wrote up for cowardice. I was still standing there with my gun on him and his gun in my face. I had cocked my gun but figured if I fired he would jerk and shoot me too. When my sgt put a shotgun in his face he dropped his gun. I could have backed up or done something else I guess.
I could have run away like the other officer. I could have begged for my life. I just can't be like that. I don't even know why. I am 71 now and my mindset has never changed and never will. I don't run and I don't quit. If it gets me killed like the guy at the ATM who had every right to use that ATM at whatever time it was, so be it. I'll go to my maker on my own terms.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:01 PM
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Chicago countermeasure:



John
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:07 AM
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17 yr old arrested 15 times, how many crimes did he get away with? Needs to be put away for good. Something ain't right!
Steve W

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Old 04-04-2018, 02:55 PM
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Another feral dindu nuffin in the wild.
Is this a hate crime?
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