Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:40 AM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sneads Ferry NC
Posts: 432
Likes: 468
Liked 437 Times in 177 Posts
Default I'm glad I don' Live in England

A man Is attacked in his home, in his kitchen by a burglar with a screwdriver. He grabs a knife and fights the burglar off, stabbing him. The burglar runs out of the house collapses and dies. The homeowner called the police The homeowner is in jail charged with murder. This was on the BBC's website.
Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested - BBC News
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:54 AM
Jeppo's Avatar
Jeppo Jeppo is offline
SWCA Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Davidson County, NC
Posts: 689
Likes: 725
Liked 666 Times in 317 Posts
Default

That's just crazy!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:58 AM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sneads Ferry NC
Posts: 432
Likes: 468
Liked 437 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppo View Post
That's just crazy!
Yes. I was just blown away by it and wondered, "Is this where America is headed"
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:00 AM
Jeppo's Avatar
Jeppo Jeppo is offline
SWCA Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Davidson County, NC
Posts: 689
Likes: 725
Liked 666 Times in 317 Posts
Default

Maybe the Castle Doctrine applies only to actual castles.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:06 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 5,606
Likes: 10,182
Liked 5,642 Times in 2,857 Posts
Default

It's got to be a joke, right? Fake news, right?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:19 AM
JohnK JohnK is offline
US Veteran
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tennessee., USA
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
Liked 278 Times in 132 Posts
Default

This incident is all too common.

England gives the normal citizen, NO rights for self defense.
__________________
NRA Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:20 AM
Lee in Quartzsite's Avatar
Lee in Quartzsite Lee in Quartzsite is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Western Arizona
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 458
Liked 2,151 Times in 745 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
It's got to be a joke, right? Fake news, right?
Doesn't sound like it...here's another link.

Homeowner, 78, arrested after '''burglar''', 38, stabbed to death with screwdriver

Tony Martin faced the same fate many years ago. He used a gun for self defense. Here is his story:

Tony Martin case: background | UK news | The Guardian

Last edited by Lee in Quartzsite; 04-04-2018 at 10:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:33 AM
blues7's Avatar
blues7 blues7 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mtns
Posts: 1,333
Likes: 841
Liked 2,583 Times in 845 Posts
Default

Beyond sad. To think that the country which gave us the Magna Carta and the common law has plummeted to these depths.
__________________
3" 686+, 642-1, M&P15 TS
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:44 AM
Geronimo Jim Geronimo Jim is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 1,385
Liked 1,340 Times in 424 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
Yes. I was just blown away by it and wondered, "Is this where America is headed"
Yes, I think it is. Just a matter of time. All our school children
and college kids are indoctrinated from preschool by liberals
teaching antigun, participation awards, peace, love etc.
Just look at the culture in colleges. A conservative can't even
speak at most colleges. These people grow up to vote.
Add those to current liberal antigun crown and the future doesn't
look bright. In coming years, more liberal judges, supreme court
flips and gun rights are gone. Just a matter of time. You have
no real 2nd amendment in California, New York, New Jersey ,etc
now. It will spread. How do you eat an elephant? One bite
at a time.

Last edited by Geronimo Jim; 04-04-2018 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:49 AM
grover99 grover99 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 313
Likes: 62
Liked 291 Times in 94 Posts
Default

Just read where London has a higher murder rate than New York city.
Take away the guns and people just find a another way to kill each other.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:08 AM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,988
Likes: 252
Liked 6,514 Times in 2,741 Posts
Default

My question is, when it is a clear case of self defense do people actually get convicted of a crime for protecting themselves? I don't agree with the verdict in the Tony Martin case as presented in the link above, but I can understand how the prosecution made the case that he didn't have to shoot the burglar to save his own life since he apparently advanced on the burglar before shooting and killing him.

But when the dead miscreant has actually wounded the homeowner before being killed, I can see the homeowner being charged - until the investigators can sort out what actually happened - but once it is established that the homeowner was actually defending themselves do they still get convicted? Are their laws really THAT backwards?

Last edited by BC38; 04-04-2018 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:17 AM
richbuff richbuff is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 109
Likes: 120
Liked 128 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Maybe the British government expects him to fight off the screwdriver wielding attacker in the kitchen with a dirty sink sponge, thus causing the attacker to succumb to flesh-eating bacteria.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:33 AM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 3,905
Liked 3,090 Times in 1,173 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
My question is, when it is a clear case of self defense do people actually get convicted of a crime for protecting themselves?
From what I've read, no, they generally don't get convicted. However, it's still horrible to be accused of murder after being forced to defend oneself, not to mention the potential costs of defending oneself in court.

I seem to recall one incident where the homeowner was charged with striking the burglar/home invader with a cricket bat. I don't know what happened afterwards.

And I'm sure there are exceptions.

I also recall reading somewhere that the only self defense tool legal in England is a personal alarm.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:01 PM
REM 3200's Avatar
REM 3200 REM 3200 is offline
US Veteran
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posts: 1,304
Likes: 3,062
Liked 1,578 Times in 603 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo Jim View Post
Yes, I think it is. Just a matter of time. All our school children
and college kids are indoctrinated from preschool by liberals
teaching antigun, participation awards, peace, love etc.
Just look at the culture in colleges. A conservative can't even
speak at most colleges. These people grow up to vote.
Add those to current liberal antigun crown and the future doesn't
look bright. In coming years, more liberal judges, supreme court
flips and gun rights are gone. Just a matter of time. You have
no real 2nd amendment in California, New York, New Jersey ,etc
now. It will spread. How do you eat an elephant? One bite
at a time.

I think you nailed it with your post. A really sad state of affairs for our once was great country.
__________________
CSM, US Army-Ret 1963-1990
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:03 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of California.
Posts: 2,170
Likes: 89
Liked 1,510 Times in 677 Posts
Default

In the UK you do not necessarily have the right to protect yourself. You should allow yourself to be murdered and then hope that the cops catch the bad guy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:56 PM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sneads Ferry NC
Posts: 432
Likes: 468
Liked 437 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
My question is, when it is a clear case of self defense do people actually get convicted of a crime for protecting themselves? I don't agree with the verdict in the Tony Martin case as presented in the link above, but I can understand how the prosecution made the case that he didn't have to shoot the burglar to save his own life since he apparently advanced on the burglar before shooting and killing him.

But when the dead miscreant has actually wounded the homeowner before being killed, I can see the homeowner being charged - until the investigators can sort out what actually happened - but once it is established that the homeowner was actually defending themselves do they still get convicted? Are their laws really THAT backwards?
Why is it ok to charge someone with a crime until the investigators sort it out. Where did the presumption of innocence go.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:13 PM
Kurusu's Avatar
Kurusu Kurusu is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 9,035
Liked 3,356 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
It's got to be a joke, right? Fake news, right?
You wish.
__________________
Non omnia possumus omnes
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:16 PM
Kurusu's Avatar
Kurusu Kurusu is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 9,035
Liked 3,356 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blues7 View Post
Beyond sad. To think that the country which gave us the Magna Carta and the common law has plummeted to these depths.
You got to remember this. The Magna Carta wasn't given the same way your Independece wasn't given either.

There are no free lunches.
__________________
Non omnia possumus omnes
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:21 PM
Hithev's Avatar
Hithev Hithev is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 53
Likes: 30
Liked 67 Times in 31 Posts
Default London's monthly murder rate has overtaken that of New York City

London murder rate higher than New York as police investigate 31st stabbing in capital this year

handguns ban notwisthstanding...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:24 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
My question is, when it is a clear case of self defense do people actually get convicted of a crime for protecting themselves? I don't agree with the verdict in the Tony Martin case as presented in the link above, but I can understand how the prosecution made the case that he didn't have to shoot the burglar to save his own life since he apparently advanced on the burglar before shooting and killing him.

But when the dead miscreant has actually wounded the homeowner before being killed, I can see the homeowner being charged - until the investigators can sort out what actually happened - but once it is established that the homeowner was actually defending themselves do they still get convicted? Are their laws really THAT backwards?
One thing that gave me comfort as a Police Officer was that someone outside the Department would (hopefully) examine the evidence presented by the Investigation BEFORE a citizen was CHARGED with a crime. Oh well, BEFORE sentencing I guess in MOE.
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:25 PM
dben002's Avatar
dben002 dben002 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Triad Area North Carolina
Posts: 1,586
Likes: 1,161
Liked 1,990 Times in 807 Posts
Default

We really need to spread this around, other forums, facebook, etc...etc....

maybe all the bad guys will decide to move there.....
__________________
Hipcocked45
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:30 PM
Kurusu's Avatar
Kurusu Kurusu is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,497
Likes: 9,035
Liked 3,356 Times in 1,129 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
We really need to spread this around, other forums, facebook, etc...etc....

maybe all the bad guys will decide to move there.....
They don't need too. They only need to support gun control, and/or "sensible" gun restriction laws.
__________________
Non omnia possumus omnes
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:32 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
From what I've read, no, they generally don't get convicted. However, it's still horrible to be accused of murder after being forced to defend oneself, not to mention the potential costs of defending oneself in court.

I seem to recall one incident where the homeowner was charged with striking the burglar/home invader with a cricket bat. I don't know what happened afterwards...
Judge gave Bugular's side two Wickets...
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:39 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
...I also recall reading somewhere that the only self defense tool legal in England is a personal alarm.
But it cannot be too loud or you may be charged with Sonic Assault. Also, criminals who experience hearing loss are eligible for Government pensions as the injury is deemed 'employment related'.

(Facts in this post come from the same sources REAL journalists use.)
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 04-04-2018, 04:59 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,988
Likes: 252
Liked 6,514 Times in 2,741 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
Why is it ok to charge someone with a crime until the investigators sort it out. Where did the presumption of innocence go.
That presumption is true (or supposed to be) for the American judicial system, but I'm not sure it applies in England. I know it isn't universal - even in first world European countries. Familiar with the Napoleonic Code?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:19 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Is it not ironic that when introduced the Napoleonic Code was considered enlightened (ie compared to Sippenhaftung eg.)
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:35 PM
one eye joe's Avatar
one eye joe one eye joe is offline
US Veteran
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 3,387
Likes: 2,841
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
A man Is attacked in his home, in his kitchen by a burglar with a screwdriver. He grabs a knife and fights the burglar off, stabbing him. The burglar runs out of the house collapses and dies. The homeowner called the police The homeowner is in jail charged with murder. This was on the BBC's website.
Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested - BBC News
THERE IS NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, THAT IS BETTER THAN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ! ! !

THAT 78 YEAR OLD WARRIOR, DESERVES A MEDAL......
__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:38 PM
vytoland's Avatar
vytoland vytoland is offline
US Veteran
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,902
Likes: 11,240
Liked 5,540 Times in 2,136 Posts
Default

you live in the USA...a stranger breaks into your house and threatens you...you shoot and kill the person...

will the police confiscate your firearm?

will the deceased's relatives bring suit against you?

will you have legal expenses?
__________________
There's nowt so queer as folk
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:49 PM
Bubba2014 Bubba2014 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Lexington,SC
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
Liked 72 Times in 20 Posts
Default

There is no other country like America, but sadly, we are headed towards anarchy. The only hope for America is Jesus!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:53 PM
Rustyt1953's Avatar
Rustyt1953 Rustyt1953 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 15,931
Likes: 27,361
Liked 76,063 Times in 13,153 Posts
Default

I have cousins there that are looking for traces of the England they grew up in.

Troubling times in the kingdom, indeed.
__________________
I'm here all week
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:17 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vytoland View Post
you live in the USA...a stranger breaks into your house and threatens you...you shoot and kill the person...

will the police confiscate your firearm?

will the deceased's relatives bring suit against you?

will you have legal expenses?
Mississippi, Michigan or Massachucetts?
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:34 PM
tops's Avatar
tops tops is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC, Yadkin County
Posts: 3,885
Likes: 7,640
Liked 3,717 Times in 1,531 Posts
Default

From what I read kids that defend themselves in school can be punished. That is teaching them to not defend themselves. The kids grow up thinking self defense is bad. Larry
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:17 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 12,973
Likes: 2,103
Liked 13,044 Times in 5,201 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
Yes. I was just blown away by it and wondered, "Is this where America is headed"
Yes, this is exactly where the US is headed.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:30 AM
cmort666's Avatar
cmort666 cmort666 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Rocky River, OH, USA
Posts: 9,399
Likes: 1,239
Liked 8,906 Times in 3,540 Posts
Default

Their new motto: "Keep calm and bleed out."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #35  
Old 04-05-2018, 05:27 AM
triaxle triaxle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 766
Likes: 2
Liked 181 Times in 115 Posts
Default

This is on the way for us , The only thing we can do is try and vote the better ones in that would be on our side .
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-05-2018, 05:28 AM
triaxle triaxle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 766
Likes: 2
Liked 181 Times in 115 Posts
Default

How do we the people let things get this way?????????????? WAKE UP
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:06 AM
pittpa's Avatar
pittpa pittpa is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SW PA
Posts: 847
Likes: 404
Liked 822 Times in 366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tops View Post
From what I read kids that defend themselves in school can be punished. That is teaching them to not defend themselves. The kids grow up thinking self defense is bad. Larry
Self defense is not popular among school administrators. Kids are supposed to endure their bullying while too often nothing is done about it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:54 AM
dougb1946 dougb1946 is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern MN
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 101
Liked 1,672 Times in 645 Posts
Default

You kill a person in self defense, you can expect an investigation. A person has been killed by another person. It should always be treated as a serious thing. Brit law works differently than ours. Not better, not worse. Just different.
The Brits also discourage carrying knives and want long pointy things banned. If you have a bat in your car, you better be on the way to a ball game. The Brits have a reputation as the thugs of Europe. I blame soccer and warm beer.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:58 AM
arjay's Avatar
arjay arjay is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 11,282
Likes: 52,831
Liked 15,243 Times in 5,312 Posts
Default

A follow up article from the BBC on self defense
What are your rights in tackling burglars?
What are your rights in tackling burglars? - BBC News
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-05-2018, 11:32 AM
LVSteve's Avatar
LVSteve LVSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 7,466
Liked 8,784 Times in 3,602 Posts
Default

All violent deaths in the UK are treated as unjustified homicide until it is proven otherwise. It is part of the assumption of a peaceful, unarmed society.

... and you know what they say about "assume"...
__________________
Release the Kraken
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:13 PM
Mule Packer's Avatar
Mule Packer Mule Packer is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northern Utah
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 5,954
Liked 9,725 Times in 1,695 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vytoland View Post
you live in the USA...a stranger breaks into your house and threatens you...you shoot and kill the person...

will the police confiscate your firearm?

will the deceased's relatives bring suit against you?

will you have legal expenses?
I think vytoland is right. As I was told by a retired Sheriff's deputy in our town, no matter how "cut and dried" it is, you will have your firearm confiscated, you will go to court, and you will have legal expenses. And our town is about as conservative as they come.

I'm afraid there are certain situations where our legal system is on the proverbial "slippery slope," and sadly, this just might be one of them.

Just my two cents worth.
__________________
Pack light and cinch tight.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:42 PM
78bagger's Avatar
78bagger 78bagger is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: In the greasewoods, Az
Posts: 89
Likes: 110
Liked 111 Times in 41 Posts
Default

I read somewhere that the UK has the opposite philosophy than we do. Here we are presumed innocent, there you are presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Am I wrong? Also, having had to defend another with shots fired, I can tell you that you will be arrested, your gun will be held in evidence and you will be arraigned. The good news is, if you are in Arizona and there is a witness, you will be cut loose the next day after seeing the judge and your shoe laces and firearm wil be returned. With a buy offer from the guy in property.
__________________
Time wounds all heels
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:56 PM
Chubbo Chubbo is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 801
Likes: 1,315
Liked 1,517 Times in 396 Posts
Default Wake Up Time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo Jim View Post
Yes, I think it is. Just a matter of time. All our school children
and college kids are indoctrinated from preschool by liberals
teaching antigun, participation awards, peace, love etc.
Just look at the culture in colleges. A conservative can't even
speak at most colleges. These people grow up to vote.
Add those to current liberal antigun crown and the future doesn't
look bright. In coming years, more liberal judges, supreme court
flips and gun rights are gone. Just a matter of time. You have
no real 2nd amendment in California, New York, New Jersey ,etc
now. It will spread. How do you eat an elephant? One bite
at a time.
Time to wake up, Jim! That elephant is long gone! In fact the things that you were waiting for, to happen, when you fell asleep, happened a long time ago. This was part of the "Big Plan", that was in effect, long before our Revolutionary War. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your correct observations are centuries too late. To get insight on this matter, I would suggest, as I have done many times, read the short book, by our third President, Thomas Jefferson! The book is entitled "Best Quotations Of Thomas Jefferson". I intend to suggest this, until told to stop. I seem to be the only one that considers that this book to contains understanding, and answers, to many of our today's problems.

Chubbo
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:57 PM
LVSteve's Avatar
LVSteve LVSteve is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 7,466
Liked 8,784 Times in 3,602 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 78bagger View Post
I read somewhere that the UK has the opposite philosophy than we do. Here we are presumed innocent, there you are presumed guilty until proven otherwise. Am I wrong?
Yes. See my post above regarding how violent death is treated. I have the inside track on the way things are done there as I was born and raised in the UK.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139990023-post40.html

Since 2004 arrest means you will be giving DNA, even if no further action is taken. IMHO it's just a CYA for the times in the past when rapists and murderers were in custody for minor offenses then released AND to get a government DNA database.

The UK National DNA Database: Balancing crime detection, human rights and privacy

Relevant detail. Note the timing of the legislation.

Quote:
Third, a 2003 change in the law in England and Wales, which came into effect in April 2004, has allowed DNA to be collected on arrest rather than on charge. This has affected both the number of individual profiles entered and the number permanently retained, because they are kept even if the individual is never charged with any offence. This decision, made via a late amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill in March 2003, happened less than one week before the bill was debated in the House of Commons and during the first week of the war in Iraq, when it was least likely to attract public attention and debate.
Another shorter piece.

GeneWatch UK - What happens when someone is arrested.
__________________
Release the Kraken
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-05-2018, 01:31 PM
tops's Avatar
tops tops is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC, Yadkin County
Posts: 3,885
Likes: 7,640
Liked 3,717 Times in 1,531 Posts
Default

OP.... I'm glad I don' Live in England

This country is getting to be like the country my ancestors emigrated from.
I wonder how long it will be before self defense will be classed as a vigilante act. We can't have people running around taking the law into their own hands. We must wait on the powers that be to decide justice. Larry
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:25 PM
pharmer's Avatar
pharmer pharmer is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Santo las nubes, Florida
Posts: 5,274
Likes: 1,978
Liked 5,362 Times in 2,028 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
.....THAT 78 YEAR OLD WARRIOR, DESERVES A MEDAL......
No, he deserves a 2" model 64 for the next time. Joe
__________________
Deplorably Optimistic
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #47  
Old 04-05-2018, 02:36 PM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 3,905
Liked 3,090 Times in 1,173 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule Packer View Post
you will go to court, and you will have legal expenses. And our town is about as conservative as they come.
While one's gun will be taken in as evidence, I don't think it's a certainty that one will have to go to court and/or have legal expenses. I've read of a number of instances where the defender wasn't arrested, charges were never filed, and in most, if not all, of the states with "Stand Your Ground" statutes civil suits aren't allowed if one's actions were deemed justifiable. So those aspects will largely depend on where the incident took place.

Having said that, I think it'd be a mistake to assume that this will be the case in every shooting. Any bit of "gray" in the situation can change things, as well as the political climate where the incident took place.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-05-2018, 03:58 PM
Bat Guano Bat Guano is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 3,206
Likes: 1,171
Liked 2,384 Times in 990 Posts
Default

And there we see the difference between a SUBJECT and a CITIZEN.

Any questions?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 04-05-2018, 04:51 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 1,156
Liked 3,040 Times in 1,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
No, he deserves a 2" model 64 for the next time. Joe
Should have kept all those Lend Lease Victorys.
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:22 PM
Bat Guano Bat Guano is offline
Member
I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England I'm glad I don' Live in England  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 3,206
Likes: 1,171
Liked 2,384 Times in 990 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomkinsSP View Post
Should have kept all those Lend Lease Victorys.
Those who do not learn from history...

American Rifleman | Throwback Thursday: Send A Gun to Defend a British Home
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sorta Glad I don't live in the UK when it comes to handguns dben002 The Lounge 15 10-31-2016 08:46 AM
Glad I don't live in NYC Franklin The Lounge 44 02-25-2016 04:28 AM
Glad I don't live in Chicago! Robbery! otis24 The Lounge 4 07-12-2013 01:23 PM
Hello from New England Cpac22 New Members Introduction 12 08-03-2012 12:37 PM
Why I'm glad I don't live in South Carolina... G-Mac The Lounge 22 04-30-2009 12:58 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:40 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)