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Old 04-10-2018, 10:48 AM
rock n roll kid rock n roll kid is offline
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Default sig has changed the game....

folks are lining up to get a shot at purchasing the fairly new 365 9mm gun they are churning out . i will swallow my pride & say i am also thinking of the same . hate to replace my glock 43 , but 10 or 12 rounds of 9 mm is tempting ..... let alone it is in a nearly sized 380 package ! bout 18 0z to boot . even hickcock 45 gave it a great review and called it a game changer . i must agree.
he brought up a good point , being to give the magazine's some time & run many mags thru many guns to see if they continue to hold up with that type of high capacity performance . he also said that the mag was designed & secondly the gun was designed around the magazine. i shoot my g43 good & did not think i would ever like to switch BUT that sig is a great set up.
will hold up judgement for a while before i make a move. would like to see someone run an extended test with the 365 sig , the glock 43 & a S&w shield & / or a s&w military & police in a side by side 2000-25000 round test in each one . if they prove out , the 365 is going to be had by a lot of people that carry !

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Old 04-10-2018, 10:57 AM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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I'll stick with my Shield. If someone made a belt fed 9mm compact somebody would buy it. Accurate shot placement always prevails over "spray & pray". My $0.02.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:16 PM
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I'm not playing...But, I'm all for choices!
The more, the merrier
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rock n roll kid View Post
folks are lining up to get a shot at purchasing the fairly new 365 9mm gun they are churning out . i will swallow my pride & say i am also thinking of the same . hate to replace my glock 43 , but 10 or 12 rounds of 9 mm is tempting ..... let alone it is in a nearly sized 380 package ! bout 18 0z to boot . even hickcock 45 gave it a great review and called it a game changer . i must agree.
he brought up a good point , being to give the magazine's some time & run many mags thru many guns to see if they continue to hold up with that type of high capacity performance . he also said that the mag was designed & secondly the gun was designed around the magazine. i shoot my g43 good & did not think i would ever like to switch BUT that sig is a great set up.
will hold up judgement for a while before i make a move. would like to see someone run an extended test with the 365 sig , the glock 43 & a S&w shield & / or a s&w military & police in a side by side 2000-25000 round test in each one . if they prove out , the 365 is going to be had by a lot of people that carry !
Not for me they didn't....sticking with my Shield 45 and my 10 round shield....

sig has changed the game....-magguts-10-round-package-jpg

Not saying it will not become a popular weapon, but for any new design weapon it has to prove itself which the 365 has not done in my opinion. Maybe after a year with no problems it could be considered proven but with Sig's latest couple of years track record it certainly is not proven at this date.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:54 PM
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What’s a sig?
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:01 PM
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What’s a sig?
I think he's a crab boat captain in Alaska.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:25 PM
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I hear you. I love my West German P226 and P228. The later German-marked P228 gets regular carry. However, all of the love and happiness goes away once it gets to Exeter.

I was an early adopter of the P290. The laser included in the package drained a single battery every 36 hours. Sent it off to Exeter and they kept it for 14 months before "giving" me the value of the laser in magazines at the overpriced, full retail from Sig amount.

Also, the P290 has one SigLite completely burnt out from the box. It was an online transaction, so I dealt with Sig. Sent it back and forth. Took forever.

My trigger was fine and revolver-like in my P290 but they redesigned the guns quickly to the P290RS. I couldn't give the original P290 away for half what I paid for it.

Now, the P320. I have the FDE version. I'm not sure what they were thinking but the FDE finish on the slide is about as durable as spray paint. Then - of course - we have the whole trigger job debacle. Got that finished up and back finally.

In short order, they changed the grip module / slide stop arrangement on the P320. Gotta watch out for that or change out the slide stop to the newer version.

Then let's look at the X-Carry grip modules! I like it! But wait... that grip module won't work with any previous P320 magazine! It must be a base plate with a circle Sig logo and not the full "Sig Sauer" logo. The new base plates are somewhat more slim. Oh... and most people including Sig don't have the new base plates.

My older Sigs I love as much as my 3rd Gen Smith autos. Exeter though seems to be mercurial and pushes ill thought out designs - constantly changing what they release into the wild.

I think the design of the P365 is a game changer. I also wouldn't touch one until they've been out for a year or two and into the third revision. (We've already seen one revision, right?)

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Old 04-10-2018, 01:57 PM
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Default My New Sig 365 Compared To A Model 340 S&W

Posted for a CCW size comparison. I was surprised exactly how small the 365 is. It took 4 months to get this ordered/delivered.

Last edited by Model39; 04-10-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 02:29 PM
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"NEW" means "new".......maybe different but not necessarily "better"......

Smaller means "smaller" ...... but from a practical point not necessarily "more concealable".

Call me an old foggy if you want...... but I've still not seen enough of a reason(s) to switch from my 3913, 6906/PC Shorty-9s

Wild Bill Hickok stuck to his guns ........ .36 Colt 1851 Navy cap and ball revolvers..... his mistake was not his choice of guns..... but not sitting with his back to a wall!!

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Old 04-10-2018, 02:37 PM
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If its made in Exeter, No thanks
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Old 04-10-2018, 02:59 PM
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It looks like whatever space the grip width takes up is used to hold rounds, instead of to hold useless wasted empty space. Little to no wasted space in the grip width. Nice. Very.
I hope the .40 version will also have a nice total m.e. to platform volume ratio.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter View Post
I'll stick with my Shield. If someone made a belt fed 9mm compact somebody would buy it. Accurate shot placement always prevails over "spray & pray". My $0.02.
Based on that comment, your Shield must be a single shot? And you don't carry an extra bullet?

My 2 and a half cent's worth. The stock market rebounded.

Last edited by SMSgt; 04-10-2018 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:36 PM
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I'll stick with my 39xx compacts for 9mm and my 457s for .45ACP, thank you.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:41 PM
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It would be hard to move away from my G26. Sure it's bigger and the capacity is the same (sort of --- my backup mag is usually a G17 mag with a +2 floorplate) but not tremendously so.

If SIG makes a factory upgraded version (say an X-Five) that might be something I would just have to check out.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:48 PM
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I think I'd give the 365 a little time in the marketplace before I purchased one. Sig seems to have an issue with rushing products to market before working out the bugs.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:50 PM
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There's no magic for me in 10 rounds. Or 12. Or 8. Or 7.

As long as it holds like, more than 5... I can shoot it... and it fits in my pants okay... that's the gun I'll carry.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:55 PM
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I think I'd give the 365 a little time in the marketplace before I purchased one. Sig seems to have an issue with rushing products to market before working out the bugs.
That's good advice ... Sig sure does...

They knew at Shot Show the 365 had problems...
The team from Guns and Ammo even brought it to there attention at range day with the failures to return to battery.

Sig released the gun in spite of knowing....using the new buyers as test subjects....Then the stoppage of shipments to correct that and other problems.....

Now in a rush to meet backorders who know's....

Yes, giving time is wise, on any new gun.....

But hey...if the 365 fills your want/desire/need/ego....get it now.....
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:30 PM
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Have you wondered why everyone wants to compare the 365 to the 43 and go ga-ga over all the extra rounds in the Sig?

It's called a Glock 26. It's barely even bigger than the Sig--about .25", measured at the slide stop, the Glock's widest part. The rest of the dimensions are about the same. Once you factor in the holster, there's barely a difference. For that tiny increase in width, you get:

--All the holsters, ever. Everybody makes a holster compatible with the 26. And if the holster is open-bottomed, generally-speaking, the same holster that fits a 26 will also take a 19, or a 17, or even a 34, or their .40/.357 Sig counterparts.

--A pistol that's been "field-tested" for years.

--Whatever accessories you want. Dozens of different sights, magazine baseplates, etc. And I haven't even gotten into all the parts that are stupid to put on a carry pistol.

Is the Sig 365 a bad gun? Probably not. I doubt that Sig will manage to screw up at Remington levels. I won't even dogpile them for early recalls and issues, because anybody that watches the pistol game knows that everybody has those problems with new models.

Is it some kind of revolutionary, game-changing pistol? Hardly. And certainly not any more than last spring's revolutionary game-changer, or the one before that, or the one before that.
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:57 PM
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How has sig changed the game? Please explain.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:32 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Based on that comment, your Shield must be a single shot? And you don't carry an extra bullet?

My 2 and a half cent's worth. The stock market rebounded.
You know better............
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:38 PM
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How has sig changed the game? Please explain.
IDK, Glock did this 22 years ago, they called it the Model 26 "Baby Glock."
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by richbuff View Post
It looks like whatever space the grip width takes up is used to hold rounds, instead of to hold useless wasted empty space. Little to no wasted space in the grip width. Nice. Very.
I hope the .40 version will also have a nice total m.e. to platform volume ratio.
It's not wasted space if you gives you a better grip on the weapon. I simply could not get a good purchase on the p365.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:55 PM
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It's roughly the size of a kel-tec p11(which has been out for a couple of decades) and holds the same number of rounds, so it's not like manufacturers were somehow unable to produce a 9mm this small with a 10 round capacity. Perhaps it is with good reason the top tier manufacturers refrained from doing so since the smaller you go, the more difficult it becomes to make a reliable, durable and shootable weapon, but the current trend is towards micro which isn't necessarily a good thing. The p365 has been plagued with problems from the start and based on what I'm seeing on the Sig forums, they are far from being resolved as new ones keep popping up. If someone handles it and likes it, I would wait at least a full year or two minimum before considering purchasing it to see if they can get the problems worked out.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
"NEW" means "new".......maybe different but not necessarily "better"......

Smaller means "smaller" ...... but from a practical point not necessarily "more concealable".

Call me an old foggy if you want...... but I've still not seen enough of a reason(s) to switch from my 3913, 6906/PC Shorty-9s

Wild Bill Hickok stuck to his guns ........ .36 Colt 1851 Navy cap and ball revolvers..... his mistake was not his choice of guns..... but not sitting with his back to a wall!!

I don't understand all the hype and hub-bub over buying/switching to the latest and greatest.

The purpose of defensive carry is to protect yourself. You have the best chance when you know your weapon inside and out, preferably to the point of memory. How can you do that if you don't keep a ccw for longer than 6 months? Also, once you find a suitable weapon, why switch?

Too many people are way too wrapped up in the "game" of firearms. It's fun and it is a hobby, but the self defense side of firearms really isn't.

Last edited by iPac; 04-11-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:39 AM
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I think I will stick with my Kahr PM9. I am good with my carry rotation of the Kahr, Smith 360, or Ruger LCP. Between the three I have a lot of solid dependable easy to conceal options.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:08 AM
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I watched with great interest as SIG teased the P365 and must say I'm intrigued. Hope it works out. Was all excited to get one, but now going to give it a little time in the market to get any revisions out if the way. The sage advice about brand new just released models applies. Wait.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:21 AM
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I'm amazed at these threads about the P365 on multiple different forums. I'm not amazed that the threads exist. I'm amazed at how many, usually intelligent members, state that they "don't get it" and that the P365 is nothing new. This is called being intentionally obtuse. I'm a huge M&P guy and own most forms of the M&P. I'm also a big Glock guy, owning at least one in every caliber except the 42. Having said that, and not being a Sig guy, I at least "get it". Assuming the bugs I read about exist, Sig will work them out. If and when that happens, personal fit notwithstanding, the P365 will (does?) offer more than any other slim9/compact9 on the market. Will it replace my Shield/PPSM2/G43? I don't know; but, assuming a similar comfort level and shootability level and being as objective as I can be, yes. If not, then no. If some fellow gun people had their way, there would be no innovation in the gun industry because they may need to change their minds. Doing so does not call in to question the choices you made in the past. Competition and innovation in the gun industry only benefit us.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:08 PM
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Nicely stated.


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Old 04-11-2018, 03:36 PM
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Default believe it !

THANKS BIG SKY .

i was happy to go from 640 s&w 38 to my glock 43 to get an extra 2 rounds. carried the 38 for over 20 years & NO i do not miss it . always was hard for me to shoot from any half way decent self defense loads . i personally find the 43 much easier to hit with inside 10 yds.

will wait a 2-3 months to seriously check out the 365 , but already the feed back on the newly manufactured ones is a pretty clean slate. believe the ones with the x-ray sights on up are good to go.

it seems its a good bet to believe some people carrying a self defense gun are hard to admit that there just night be a better option that exists !

kudos for the designers who worked on the 365 . and thank god we have choices .
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSky! View Post
I'm amazed at these threads about the P365 on multiple different forums. I'm not amazed that the threads exist. I'm amazed at how many, usually intelligent members, state that they "don't get it" and that the P365 is nothing new. This is called being intentionally obtuse. I'm a huge M&P guy and own most forms of the M&P. I'm also a big Glock guy, owning at least one in every caliber except the 42. Having said that, and not being a Sig guy, I at least "get it". Assuming the bugs I read about exist, Sig will work them out. If and when that happens, personal fit notwithstanding, the P365 will (does?) offer more than any other slim9/compact9 on the market. Will it replace my Shield/PPSM2/G43? I don't know; but, assuming a similar comfort level and shootability level and being as objective as I can be, yes. If not, then no. If some fellow gun people had their way, there would be no innovation in the gun industry because they may need to change their minds. Doing so does not call in to question the choices you made in the past. Competition and innovation in the gun industry only benefit us.
What I don't get is all the hype, exaggerations and ignoring of problems.

Sig's Ron Cohen even made the ridiculous statement that it could replace full size duty pistols in some agencies. Pure nonsense. Based on some of praise heaped on the unproven Sig p365, you would think it was the size of a Ruger LCP and as reliable and shootable as a Glock 17. It's not. After handling one, I don't really see anything all that innovative about it. The grip is pretty small. Too small for my hands and I would imagine for most grown men. Unnecessarily small for what you gain IMO since it's still not a pocket gun. Marginal differences and there is nothing significant about 10 rounds. Anti-gunners seem to think there is something extraordinary about a gun that holds 10 rounds, but guys on gun forums apparently think so as well, because I think if the Sig held 8 or 9 rounds, there wouldn't be all this fanfare.

When the Ruger lcp came out, it was considered innovative even though it was just a kel-tec p3at clone. The kel-tec p11 is nearly identical in size, weight and capacity to the p365 and it has been out for over 20 years. Reliability is by far the most important quality in a self-defense firearm and the Sig simply hasn't proven itself. Right now it's hit and miss with way too many ongoing problems to think it wise to purchase one or recommend it.

And for me, the trigger is a deal breaker. It is simply too light/short for a concealed carry handgun. I've seen several comments stating the trigger is so "great" that you have to be worried about unintentional discharges. I find that absurd and irresponsible. Even Guns America warns about the light trigger in their review video. Guns like these are self-defense tools not range toys, so yeah, I don't get why anyone would want such a short-light trigger on a carry gun. I think a lot of people treat concealed carry like a game and just want to buy the newest toy to play with.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:38 PM
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Going to be popular with the "spray and pray" crowd. I'll stick with my Colt Defender .45. 8 is more than I should need as long as I remember how to shoot.
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  #32  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:49 PM
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Might be time to update my PM9.
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:22 PM
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My Walther PPS M2 is almost a part of me. To me, that is more important. 8 or 9 initial rds for the PPS, with 7 or 8 rd 2nd mag.is enough for me. Sure, the 365 is intriguing, it's a TEENY bit smaller than my PPS. But, my PPS is proven to me (and a lot of others)
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:41 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyD380 View Post
There's no magic for me in 10 rounds. Or 12. Or 8. Or 7.

As long as it holds like, more than 5... I can shoot it... and it fits in my pants okay... that's the gun I'll carry.
You are so correct. Lots of times I carry a 5 shot j-frame.......And

You don't need to 'RAIN" bullets on a target to stop it..........And

If you use a big enough bullet, you don't need a bunch of little ones.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:38 AM
MattyD380 MattyD380 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigSky! View Post
I'm amazed at these threads about the P365 on multiple different forums. I'm not amazed that the threads exist. I'm amazed at how many, usually intelligent members, state that they "don't get it" and that the P365 is nothing new. This is called being intentionally obtuse. I'm a huge M&P guy and own most forms of the M&P. I'm also a big Glock guy, owning at least one in every caliber except the 42. Having said that, and not being a Sig guy, I at least "get it". Assuming the bugs I read about exist, Sig will work them out. If and when that happens, personal fit notwithstanding, the P365 will (does?) offer more than any other slim9/compact9 on the market. Will it replace my Shield/PPSM2/G43? I don't know; but, assuming a similar comfort level and shootability level and being as objective as I can be, yes. If not, then no. If some fellow gun people had their way, there would be no innovation in the gun industry because they may need to change their minds. Doing so does not call in to question the choices you made in the past. Competition and innovation in the gun industry only benefit us.
Well said.

From a technical/engineering standpoint, I do think it's pretty amazing that Sig was able to fit 10 rounds in tiny little gun like this. And those extra 2 to 3 rounds will be a big selling point (maybe the biggest) to some, over a Shield, XDS, etc.

But for me, round count is never the first consideration for a carry gun. I want a gun I can shoot and conceal effectively. And I generally prefer DA/SA. I've been carrying a CZ RAMI lately... same round count as the P365... though a little bigger, fatter and heavier........ and capable of carving a single hole in a bullseye all day long, at 10 yards (in my hands).

Personally, I haven't found that the latest subcompact, polymer, striker-fired 9s offer that level shootability (obviously subjective). So I'll probably stick with my old-school DA/SA classics for carry: RAMI, P239, 6904, PPK.
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  #36  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:52 PM
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I'll just stick to my P229. Grip is too short to suit me and it's striker fired. Never been a fan of striker fired pistols, just can't like them.
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:35 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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lots of problems showing up .. broken firing pins .. unusual peening on the barrel with low shot count ..

Think I'll wait awhile !!!
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:58 PM
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I will do my best not to buy any new polymer framed guns. They drop about 50% in value when you walk out of the gun shop. My two Sig P320s have made the trip to Exeter, my S&W M&P .380 EZ is in Springfield.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:27 AM
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Lee in Quartzsite Lee in Quartzsite is offline
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I will do my best not to buy any new polymer framed guns. They drop about 50% in value when you walk out of the gun shop. My two Sig P320s have made the trip to Exeter, my S&W M&P .380 EZ is in Springfield.
Not always....I got 85% trade in value on a 12 year old M&P 9mm Compact for a P365. All depends on how well they are cared for.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:33 PM
VictorLouis VictorLouis is offline
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... the trigger is a deal breaker. It is simply too light/short for a concealed carry handgun....you have to be worried about unintentional discharges. I find that absurd and irresponsible. Even Guns America warns about the light trigger in their review video...
My same feeling with the 320. I hate to say it this way, but...if I were in authority in an LE-agency, I would not authorize that gun unless they were able to increase the pull weight, and travel. Not like the ridiculous 12-lb NY-triggers foisted on NYPD Glocks...but something a bit less 'sensitive'.
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