Got an email from Wilson Combat with a video on the EDC9...... watched it ...kind of cool......next video popped up...." What do Special Operators EDC?"
OK still coffee in my mug so I let it roll...... 3 out of 4 had Glock 43s......single stack 9mm 6+1 with two carrying with mag extensions "to get a full grip" so +2 for 8+1??????

My LOL moment?....... guess I'm not giving up much against either gun...... with my 25+ year old tech....... Smith Models 3913 and PC Shorty 9.

And I still got $3,000 or so in my pockets.......

New is new....... better???????....... that's for each of you to decide. Me I'll just stick to my old tech!!!!!!

As I've posted before..... I've come to understand why my Dad carried the same guns for 20 to 39 years while serving as a Motorcycle Patrolman to Captain.

I'm up to four 3913/14's. The first time I shot one, I thought, "Whoever designed the Shield must have liked this old gun".

A single stack (mine was a 39-2) or a revolver (mine is a 49 no dash), and 1 reload is all I need to get away from trouble. It is nowhere near enough when looking for trouble!

Ivan

If I'm wrong, look for me just inside the pearly gates. I'll be the guy full of holes!

That which has been, shall be.
That which has been done,
Shall be done.
And there is nothing new, under the Sun.

King David ca.3000 years ago

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Certified Curmudgeon

Bam-Bam, I remember back in NYC in the early 80's when the cool guys on our job carried a 2" Model 36 instead of a 2" Model 15. (As did many of our NYPD brethren in the detective squads.)

I never felt under-gunned at the time and (certainly foolishly) felt like I was fully prepared for come what may.

Now that I'm retired from LE, I walk around with a Glock 19 most days when I leave the house for town or beyond...or just the S&W 642-1 for walking distances from home.

Go figure.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Whatever works for you is best. To ME, I do not need a full grip on a handgun as my pinky does no gripping whatsover; it's more of a "comfort" thing I believe. I carry either a G19, Ruger LC9s pro or a 642 daily (depending on the weather). The latter of the 3 I do not get a full grip on and it does not bother me a bit. I used to carry a G26 housing a flush mag with similar results.

I've carried model 66, 686, and three 640's with the last being a 640 Pro Series since the 70's but I've found a new daily carry that I love more than my revolvers. The new .380 Shield EZ with No safety. Great Gun and this comes from a revolver guy. Fun to shoot, lighter than a .357 and 8+1.

What kills me about this is these same guys complain that a 1911 doesn't have enough capacity at 8+1, but this gun is somehow perfect.

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Freedom isn't free.

On the plus side, it's a little less finicky than a 1911 right out of the box.

That said, the 43 never felt good in my hand and I've never owned one. My old issued 1911 felt like magic...but required a higher level of maintenance. YMMV.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

The Glocks do have the advantage of factory support and parts unlike the the third gen S&W's. I've found the Glocks to be more accurate on average for myself, I'm sure some others will feel differently though. I do like the DA/SA system better than the striker fired guns, but sadly they seem to be going the way of the dinosaur.

Could you explain this a little for me please? I've heard this, but I don't get it. Buy gun. Clean gun. Shoot gun. What's the "finicky" part?


Please explain this too. What is accurate to you? Are we talking one ragged hole at 10 yards, slow fire? Or are you thinking controlled pairs (2 shots in 2 seconds) at 7 yards and they're within 3"of each other. Both are examples of good accuracy, but with different shooting styles.

A friend was a hard core Glock fan. I'm a 1911 guy (M&P is a close second). We have a friendly banter about this. He finally broke down and bought a 1911. Here is a picture that speaks volumes:

In the inset image, he was using a Glock he had owned for years. The 1911 was brand new and he had only fired about 300 rounds before shooting this target.

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Freedom isn't free.

Yet I'm sure that they would still assert that Revolvers and older Semiautomatic Pistols like the 1911 are obsolete and are too limited in ammo capacity.

Frankly, I've stopped caring about what other folks carry, especially the so-called (often self-proclaimed) experts. I've heard enough of the hypocritical nonsense spouted by your average Law Enforcement/Military guy has to say, and while I appreciate their service, I choose to exercise my right to freedom that they fight to protect by making my own decisions.

Neither. I'm talking bench rested groups at 25 yards. I've never considered shooting offhand groups at bad breath distance as a good way to test handgun and or load accuracy. If you reread my post I was talking about 3rd gen S&W's not 1911's. Nor did I say this was the gospel written in stone, just my experience.

As far as 1911's, I've seen some that capable of match level accuracy and others capable of pie plate accuracy at best. It really varies between manufacturers and models.

Thank you for that clarification. I completely agree that this is how a pistol/load should be tested for accuracy.

I didn't catch that you were comparing the Glock to the 3rd Gen pistols. I guess that was inferred by this thread. I should have picked up on that. However, I wasn't comparing your comment to 1911s either. I just used that as an example.

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Freedom isn't free.

To be fair... if you are going to uses prices and money as part of your argument, we kind of need to level the playing field.

The Wilson EDCx9 is really neat but nobody is carrying one. If you can find even one person who carries one, he is a statistical anomaly. As are you -- likely the ONLY actual human person who routinely carries a S&W PC SD-9.

Now!! You still have $3000 in your pocket?
No way, not if you hadn't lucked in to your SD-9. If you had to buy one of those now, you'd need to drop $1500-$2000 to bring one home.

Way back in the late 80's early 90's I was issued a Colt Gov't Model (Series 70) which I carried during investigations and on SRT. I shot that firearm very well and it was very accurate when it wasn't having issues.

Apparently, the prior possessor of that firearm for my outfit, who was a competent shooter, had issues and the gun was throated, polished and had extractor worked and replaced but the gun still had issues with extraction (without being limped).

I've never owned any 1911's and only had that one for a couple of years before we could no longer carry cocked and locked, but I've heard from other respected friends and colleagues that their 1911 pistols are a labor of love.

I have nothing but respect for the platform and its history...but I don't think they are as reliable out of the box compared to the Glock which is the firearm I can converse most about.

(We did carry the S&W 6946 before transitioning completely to Glocks and other than not liking the field strip procedure, it was a totally reliable firearm in my experience and shot very well.)

That's all I got.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Between the military and law enforcement, I lived with the 1911 for a quarter of a century. If you don't think it can be finicky you haven't shot one enough. If you can't acknowledge that it takes a higher level of maintenance and upkeep than a modern drastic plastic, you're living on hidebound nostalgia.

BTW, I think the 1911 is awesome and one of the seminal designs of the 20th century but it has its quirks.

Nope donn't carry/shoot the SD-9 anymore ..... after finding out only 179 made..... I carry a Shorty-9.

The $3000 was the cost to "up grade" to the Wilson Combat and Glock.43.

I started with Glocks.... BHP's.... 1911's..... still own em. Still shoot em.

I carry smith and charter wheel guns now.

To be clear I bought my PC guns in the 90s; all for around $500-600 "used" thou some had never been fired by the original owner. At the time I don't think most/many realized how limited the runs were on some of these guns.........the "Gun Rags" at the time made it seem like the Shorty-40s were everywhere.

Also at the time there were several gunsmiths making custom Smiths out of regular production guns....... ASP,Trapper were some of the more famous.....for the cost of the gun and $1200-1800 dollars. Whereas the PC guns were as cooool as the "custom" builds for only a few hundred more than their factory counterpart.

I never warmed to the .40 as I had 'invested" in 9mm and .45s...... so I grabbed several 9mm's when I could at a good price. The'used" Shorty9 I've carried over the past 20 years only cost me about $200 more than a new 6906........ so why not carry it???? 20 years later it's an old friend..... with stippled grips and mags with the pinky rests modified ....

I'm not saying you're wrong, but blanket statements don't mean much. I can say that about any gun. So, details are what I want to hear. Finicky in what way?

My point is, I shoot my guns and then I clean/lube them. They all seem to work fine. I don't do any more work on my 1911s than any other gun I own. Yes, the 1911 is not as easy to field strip.

I have over 20K rounds through 1911s. Is that enough? I've seen many more in action. I've seen plenty fail, but then I've seen many more Glocks fail. That could be because I see more Glocks.

This is another thing I hear about a lot and don't really understand. How is carrying a 1911 "cocked and locked" any different than carrying a Glock or M&P with one in the chamber?

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Freedom isn't free.

I imagine he means an edict came down from upon high, and he was no longer PERMITTED to carry condition one.

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Certified Curmudgeon

I'm not going there. That's a decision that was made by folks at the administrative level. (Considering my opinion of most of them, it's not likely I can give an unbiased answer. )

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Exactly. Thanks for clarifying.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Yes, I know it was. But, that doesn't change the question. It was just a question about the validity of the statement. We hear it all the time and it makes no sense.

None of these questions are an assault on an individual. This is a gun discussion forum so, let's discuss stuff. Some of these things are myths or perceptions that have been around for decades. Let's get them out on the table and talk about them. Doing that makes us all wiser don't you think?

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Freedom isn't free.

Well, I can only say that based upon my limited experience with the 1911 platform...that no matter how much I enjoyed shooting the one I was issued, I'd be much more confident in any of the Glocks I've owned or was issued...or the old S&W 6946.

If I never had any issues with the Colt, however, I could have happily carried it for many more years after it became verboten. (Though it is a bit harder to carry and conceal in some circumstances.)

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642-1, M&P15 TS

*
A staggering percentage of LE command officers (they are not "leaders" any more than I am a gymnast) are ignorant about firearms, afraid of firearms, and afraid of anyone who is not as ignorant and fearful as they are. Many are stuck with training scars from prior experiences, in which they have been told that a Condition 1 1911 is "dangerous", when in fact if one looks at the platform from a purely mechanical viewpoint, it is about the safest firearm out there.

I have encountered a large number of LE command officers who don't know enough about firearms, tactics, search and seizure law including its subset use of force law, and other fundamentals to safely and effectively perform as actual cops. They also should never be allowed to comment or develop policy on anything related ... but do. It's really scary. Combine that with the appearance of a condition 1 1911, and what the rare observant citizen would say, and one is virtually certain to have fear driven stupid policies.

I've seen and experienced it as a cop and as a prosecutor; in my consulting on such issues, and when writing and teaching.

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NHI, 10-8.