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  #51  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
Guys I knew l shouldn't have posted this thread. I didn't think this was a "ridiculous conversation" but judging how someone gave it a 1-star rating I can only surmise my own stupidity is to blame. I only wanted to start a dialogue on my thoughts. I should have known better... sorry.

-Jay
Been reading your posts for several years now. No need for you to stop now. There will always be those that want to derail a thread so they can bring attention to themselves and show the world how smart they are. Or arenít. Happens all too often even though it shouldnít. We canít stop it but we can sure ignore it.

My thoughts on your question. You failed to share in detail your intended use of either a shot gun or AR. But thatís your business.

No matter what load you use, the defensive shot gun has always been thought of as an up close and personal platform in which it excels wonderfully. The AR has the advantage of range and accuracy but lacks the awesome power of the shot gun up close.

It all depends on the perceived range at which you think you may have to defend yourself with a long gun. Inside 50 yards I would use a 12ga with slugs. Any other load would be useless. Over 50 yards I would employ an AR in 223 or 308.

If I had several acres I would choose an AR because of its versatility in short and long range situations. And since I would be defending my home I would want as much ammo as possible.

Just my two cents not including inflation.
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  #52  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:06 PM
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While the folklore is that the 5.56X45 will over penetrate, the research shows that this is not correct. The FBI ballistics folks have found that for home defense or LE use inside a house, properly chosen 5.56X45 duty ammo is less likely to result in a through and through wound on an offender and far less likely to penetrate a typical household wall. (And this is OLD news - 20 years or more, IIRC.)

Such ammo is also likely to provide good ballistic performance in police work (FBI and most other feds are not cops, they are criminal investigators - different in many ways) against vehicles. In a shotgun, my academy taught the slug as primary, and buck as a specialized round with limited purpose. I adhere to that. The slugs you have chosen are recommended for serious work by the leading ballistics researcher (Doc Roberts, successor to Dr. Fackler). I would be confident with either. As I get older, the AR properly equipped (first quality such as DD/Colt/FN/BCM, with a really good light and Aimpoint) is more comfortable, but solid work can be done with slugs. (My shotgun is set up as much like the AR as possible - same sling; Surefire fore end; Aimpoint.)
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
If I had several acres I would choose an AR because of its versatility in short and long range situations. And since I would be defending my home I would want as much ammo as possible.
Also depends on whom is using it as well. Shotgun is harder to handle for smaller family members as well.
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  #54  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:02 PM
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[QUOTE=rwsmith;140035353]If a perp is more than a few yards away it's going to be hard to plead that it was 'defense'.

An AR-15 would have a STRONG tendency to overpenetrate and hit something behind the perp.

A few years ago a women standing in her kitchen was shot and killed by a deer hunter close to a mile away by an errant shot ..

Slugs are just as much an over kill as an AR in a home defensive situation !!
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Old 05-26-2018, 02:13 AM
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My Moss erg is stupid accurate with rifked slugs, 50y hits on 10" platecare pretty easy with open sights. Still a carbine offers a lot more rds & more range if needed. Nothing wrong with both.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
Guys I knew l shouldn't have posted this thread. I didn't think this was a "ridiculous conversation" but judging how someone gave it a 1-star rating I can only surmise my own stupidity is to blame. I only wanted to start a dialogue on my thoughts. I should have known better... sorry.

-Jay
Don't worry, I too am a shotgun guy. I have been issued and/or owned Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 shotguns for over 40 years. I retired from LE in '06 and patrol rifles were not all that common for officers. As a shotgun instructor I needed to be able to hit a silhouette target consistently at 100 yards with slugs. I too do not own an AR and likely never will. If I need to make a longer range shot for any reason these days it will be my 500 loaded with slugs.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
Guys I knew l shouldn't have posted this thread. I didn't think this was a "ridiculous conversation" but judging how someone gave it a 1-star rating I can only surmise my own stupidity is to blame. I only wanted to start a dialogue on my thoughts. I should have known better... sorry.

-Jay
I wouldn't worry about it. Personally I think that you could handle a realistic situation with the slugs. Very few incidents require squad level firepower and a ghost ring sighted slug gun is very accurate to 100 yards.

Often times we in the gun community tend to build scenarios not to prepare for events but to justify our selection of hardware or demonstrate our superior grasp of tactics and techniques.

As far as those who feel that you can't justify using lethal force beyond a few yards, it can be and has been done. It all depends on the situation and is dependent on the intent, opportunity and capability of the offender. If he is unlawfully placing people in jeopardy from 50 yards away (think active shooter) you don't have to shake his hand to justify deadly force.
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