Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:16 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 1,266
Liked 2,371 Times in 1,512 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
I'm confused here. Of course a semi can be reloaded in two seconds. But did you really mean all seven or eight rounds can be fired (unloaded) in two seconds?

And what's 1918 have to do with anything?
No, last shot, next aimed shot, 2sec with a semi. While reloading probably isn't going to happen, if you need it, like carrying a gun, you need it badly. Why I would not consider a SA revo a serious choice for SD/carry. Yep, if it is what I had with me, then it has to do, but I would never choose that for an edc.
The SAA was still quite popular in the early 1900 by folks not comfy with the then new semiautos. Many still carried & used them, some quite effectively. Then again, you were likely facing a sim armed opponent. It is 2018, every dirt-bag carries a cheap high cap pistol. So times 2 or 3, well again, SA revo not even my 2nd choice.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 06-01-2018 at 07:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:22 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 1,266
Liked 2,371 Times in 1,512 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
I can't tell if you're just agreeing with me, or if my sarcasm was that successful. But yes, I was suggesting that claiming that something was enough for almost all self-defense encounters was sort've silly, when the downside is dying.

Selecting a smaller, more concealable pistol is one thing. Going with a cheaper pistol is okay. But putting five rounds in a 10-shot pistol--or using a single-action revolver over a double-action--has no upside. Even if that five round capacity or single-action mechanism would be fine 90% of the time, you're going to feel really foolish the other 10%.
100%. I do not train or carry for average. I assume the worst will happen & try to prepare for that.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:07 PM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 342
Liked 2,160 Times in 785 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
That's a bit harsh, don't you think? "Not going to carry a real gun"? Really?

...I didn't want to...but I'll second what he said. And I own three of the NAA Mini Revolvers but would never carry one by itself.

Learn from the mistakes of others. Go over to LiveLeak or YouTube and watch the videos of actual gunfights and ask yourself HONESTLY if you think you could survive any of them.

And put yourself in the place of the officer cited above except you are a civilian whose daughter just got taken by her nutcase ex-husband...you really think that the Mini in your pocket is going to bring the guy down at 10 yards...

I know 9 officers personally who were involved in on and off-duty incidences with .38 Specials. All but one were so dissatisfied with the results they changed guns and calibers...and you expect to get it done with a with one of the hardest to shoot guns made in just .22 caliber.

You can dream and rationalize all you want..but as my signature line says...if you can't deal with reality, reality will deal with you.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:14 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 13,064
Likes: 2,136
Liked 13,252 Times in 5,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
...I didn't want to...but I'll second what he said. And I own three of the NAA Mini Revolvers but would never carry one by itself.
Indeed.

Of course the NAA is a real gun. Anything that will fire a cartridge is a real gun. The point is it's not a gun I would ever recommend as a carry gun. A back up? Yeah, I guess it's better than nothing.

But that's the point of this whole thread. I would never recommend a SA as a primary carry gun, but it's not unusable. I would recommend a full size SA long before I'd recommend a mini SA, but it's still something.

Personally I think that some skill at empty hand defense would be more valuable in the situation that keith44spl mentions. I'd rather be able to win the fight, or at least create space, than to have to rely on that gun. But that's me and everyone doesn't think the same. It takes all kinds and we're all different. That's the beauty of a free society. So, if the NAA is your thing, have at it.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #105  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:23 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 148
Liked 1,549 Times in 769 Posts
Default

In a ground scenario that's gone sideways, I'd probably opt for a blade over a .22 caliber mini-revolver.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #106  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:30 PM
Tjohns42 Tjohns42 is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 37
Likes: 5
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I personally practice at least two cylinders of single action shooting every time I take my 19-2 to the range. I canít tell you why (because I donít know why, not itís a big secret) but my dad always insisted that I do it when he would take me to the range. Now itís just habit. I think if I had to grab a single action as a last resort Iíd like my chances. Of course that may have been his lesson all along. If you can shoot it accurately and faster than the other guy then the first shot is the one that counts.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 06-02-2018, 05:34 AM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 342
Liked 2,160 Times in 785 Posts
Default

...so a question. In the above scenario where the LEO with a 5 shot .38 Snubbie, that LOTS of posters on this board regularly carry as a SD gun, takes on a BG with a Glock 17, would he have been better off with a 5 or 6 shot .357 Magnum, .44 Special or .45 Colt Freedom Arms 97 like Naphtali is considering building for a carry gun....

Other than being "convenient" in size and weight what's the advantage...zero. And to ammo effectiveness, from what I have seen in the real world, the .38 Special, especially from a snubbie, is MARGINAL....not ADEQUATE.

So between the choice of carrying a snubbie and my only slightly less convenient Freedom Arms 97/.41 Magnum, I'll take the Single Action every time...

Bob
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #108  
Old 06-02-2018, 08:22 AM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 148
Liked 1,549 Times in 769 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
...so a question. In the above scenario where the LEO with a 5 shot .38 Snubbie, that LOTS of posters on this board regularly carry as a SD gun, takes on a BG with a Glock 17, would he have been better off with a 5 or 6 shot .357 Magnum, .44 Special or .45 Colt Freedom Arms 97 like Naphtali is considering building for a carry gun....

Other than being "convenient" in size and weight what's the advantage...zero. And to ammo effectiveness, from what I have seen in the real world, the .38 Special, especially from a snubbie, is MARGINAL....not ADEQUATE.

So between the choice of carrying a snubbie and my only slightly less convenient Freedom Arms 97/.41 Magnum, I'll take the Single Action every time...

Bob
My perspective is the snub revolver is actually a superior ccw weapon, not merely a weapon of convenience and carry comfort.

The odds of a civilian getting into a ranged shoot-out is astronomically rare. The potential is obviously there, but unless you're a cop, a gang member or are intent on intervening in situations that are not really any of your business, the most likely defense encounters will be at extremely close distances and unfold very quickly.

In a reactive scenario taking place inside 3 yards or contact distances, the enclosed hammer snub is an extremely formidable weapon if not the ideal one.

If any given individual wanted to be as prepared as possible or felt that ranged gunfights were a reasonably likely possibility, I would recommend they opt for a service size or compact autoloader or at the very least a well handling, shootable subcompact that holds at least 10 rounds at the minimum backed up by a snub. Otherwise, and in reality, I think the snub by itself is a good choice and makes a lot of sense. A single-action revolver on the other hand doesn't make much sense, at least not to me.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:08 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 1,266
Liked 2,371 Times in 1,512 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
In a ground scenario that's gone sideways, I'd probably opt for a blade over a .22 caliber mini-revolver.
In a heart beat. A blade is easier to manipulate with one hand, never runs out of ammo & imo, at contact, just as or more deadly than a 22lr. A blade into the torso will generally have a better result than a singke 22lr. You can stick the blade in the bad guys ear too.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:13 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 1,266
Liked 2,371 Times in 1,512 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
...so a question. In the above scenario where the LEO with a 5 shot .38 Snubbie, that LOTS of posters on this board regularly carry as a SD gun, takes on a BG with a Glock 17, would he have been better off with a 5 or 6 shot .357 Magnum, .44 Special or .45 Colt Freedom Arms 97 like Naphtali is considering building for a carry gun....

Other than being "convenient" in size and weight what's the advantage...zero. And to ammo effectiveness, from what I have seen in the real world, the .38 Special, especially from a snubbie, is MARGINAL....not ADEQUATE.

So between the choice of carrying a snubbie and my only slightly less convenient Freedom Arms 97/.41 Magnum, I'll take the Single Action every time...

Bob
Apples & oranges. If carrying that much gun, just carry a m57-4". You are now about twice as effective in a fight with multiple attackers.
This is simple; take a timer & say 2 idpa or uspsa target, 7y. Square up timer goes off, fire three at each, reload, three at each. Get bak to me on how much slower the SA is thru the entire drill.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 06-04-2018 at 03:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:17 AM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,278
Likes: 8,989
Liked 19,089 Times in 3,807 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X
In a ground scenario that's gone sideways, I'd probably opt for a blade over a .22 caliber mini-revolver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
In a heart beat. A blade is easier to manipulate with one hand, never runs out of ammo & imo, at contact, just as or more deadly than a 22lr. A blade into the torso will generally have a better result than a singke 22lr. You can stick the blade in the bad guys ear too.


I always kept a small palm knife hidden behind my mag pouch...


But, the thread is about SA revolvers...ÖÖ.not knifes.


.
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:44 AM
wgnovak wgnovak is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
Liked 31 Times in 12 Posts
Default

When in Wyoming all I had was my Ruger .41 mag and yes I carried it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #113  
Old 06-02-2018, 11:10 AM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
US Veteran
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 261
Likes: 58
Liked 85 Times in 61 Posts
Default

If you wound someone with a SAA, the wounded person could claim that you fired by accident.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #114  
Old 06-02-2018, 11:44 AM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
US Veteran
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 261
Likes: 58
Liked 85 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
Since 1776 and I had this discussion already via PM I will have to disagree with him...

Lance Thomas...his shop was a commercial robbery magnet...not something a normal civilian would ever encounter. There are videos of his gun fights that I have seen and after wildly blasting one gun dry he would run down the counter for another...

Richard Davis was shot before he shot the robbers not after. He took care of business with the 5 shots he had. There was no more incoming fire after he ran dry...fight over:

"The streetwise Davis came prepared for an assault, but his body was unprepared for the two bullets that nailed him seconds later, one glancing off his head just beneath the frame of his glasses and the other plowing into the back of his leg.

Rather than falling to the ground, Davis somehow managed to wound two of his three attackers. "Thank God for the 'Saturday Night Special,' " he said, referring to the small, cheap handgun his attackers used. "I was hit twice, but I got four hits on them, so I won the game on points, I guess."

Jason Hendeix, while and exceptionally brave LEO, was not acting as a civilian once he decided to go on the "offensive" to stop the possible murder/kidnapping. In reading the whole story, even if he had extra ammo when he ran his gun dry, the likelihood of him being able to reload due to his injuries was doubtful...

I have either personally spoken to or emailed with many of the top trainers and have asked the same questions about a civilian reload and other than the ones cited, they have none. (this was in the 2003-5 area).

What you bring to the dance in your gun is what you are going to finish the fight with...

If you read Tom Givens book Fighting Smarter, he has had 65 students involved in gun fights...not a one reloaded except for one who reportedly topped off his gun after the hostilities were basically over...

So as to the original question on carrying a SA for self-defense and are competent with it, it beats someone who who has a Wonder 9 who isn't...mindset/training/tactics are everything...

Bob
Richard Davis went on to host a big bowling pin shooting match (Second Chance). He is a personal friend of mine.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #115  
Old 06-02-2018, 11:52 AM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 342
Liked 2,160 Times in 785 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by otasan56 View Post
If you wound someone with a SAA, the wounded person could claim that you fired by accident.
Since you have to have your finger on the trigger to make the gun go off...what is the difference between cocked SA revolver or a SA semi when you take the safety off...zero. And how many unintentional discharges have there been with striker fired guns as the safety is automatically taken off when you put your finger on the trigger...
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 06-02-2018, 11:57 AM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 342
Liked 2,160 Times in 785 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Aples & oranges. If carrying that much gun, just carry a m57-4". You are now about twice as effective in a fight with multiple attackers.
This is simple; take a timer & say 2 idpa or uspsa target, 7y. Square up timer goes off, fire three at each, reload, three at each. Get bak to me on how much slower thecSA is thru the entire drill.
100% agree...but that is not what I am comparing... I have a 57 4" and would carry that over a 97 gladly...but I will take either over a snubbie.

As to your example of shoot-reload-shoot...again show me the hundreds or even dozens of self-defense shootings that require a reload. They don't exist.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 06-02-2018, 02:10 PM
jtcarm's Avatar
jtcarm jtcarm is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 1,114
Liked 2,860 Times in 1,273 Posts
Default

Maybe not my first choice for SD, but then no handgun would be.

Back in the day, hunting & silhouette with big bore Ruger SAs was my thing, and Iím right at home with one.

It may be heresy on this forum, but in a big-bore magnum (bigger than .357), Iíll take a DA over an SA every time.

The OP mentioned Vegas and the possibility of being attacked while out shooting his .45. In the wide open spaces of the desert, Iíd take a big bore Ruger SA over a pocket nine or snub DA. On the other hand, Iíd also have my M-64 under my shirt.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #118  
Old 06-02-2018, 02:15 PM
jtcarm's Avatar
jtcarm jtcarm is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 1,114
Liked 2,860 Times in 1,273 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversnake View Post
If he's seen even one cowboy movie I think he will figure it out.


That means youíre probably safe if youíre attacker is a millennial.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 06-02-2018, 02:49 PM
jtcarm's Avatar
jtcarm jtcarm is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 1,114
Liked 2,860 Times in 1,273 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by otasan56 View Post
If you wound someone with a SAA, the wounded person could claim that you fired by accident.


Lp[ATTACH]343004[/ATTACH
Attached Thumbnails
Single Action Revolvers for Defense?-img_0195-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 06-02-2018, 06:50 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 13,064
Likes: 2,136
Liked 13,252 Times in 5,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by otasan56 View Post
If you wound someone with a SAA, the wounded person could claim that you fired by accident.
Their claims are irrelevant. If I point a gun at a person, the shot would be intentional.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 06-02-2018, 07:42 PM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,047
Likes: 1,445
Liked 23,209 Times in 3,037 Posts
Default

For quite a while when I was younger, an old model Super Blackhawk was my only revolver. I had no problem with it being my "house gun." Figured if someone heard those loud four clicks from me cocking it, they'd be gone or changing their underwear on the ground; no need to shoot it. Pretty close to the sound of a pump shotgun being shucked!

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #122  
Old 06-02-2018, 08:11 PM
k22fan k22fan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,524
Likes: 3,494
Liked 3,342 Times in 1,638 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
For quite a while when I was younger, an old model Super Blackhawk was my only revolver. I had no problem with it being my "house gun." Figured if someone heard those loud four clicks from me cocking it, they'd be gone or changing their underwear on the ground; no need to shoot it. Pretty close to the sound of a pump shotgun being shucked!

John

For both hunting and tactically, that is an argument against single actions! The clicking collectors adore could give away your position. By the way, why does the Super BH in your picture still have perfect bluing? Is that not the SBH you had in your youth?

Regarding the suggestion that carrying a single action risks false claims that you fired accidentally, later on your attorney may ask if you can testify that it was an accident yourself. If your home owner's insurance adjuster does not dispute the claim then they will cover your civil liability. Can anyone cite a case where the perp's claim the good guy who shot them fired accidentally caused the shooter to be charged with a crime?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #123  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:08 AM
PALADIN85020's Avatar
PALADIN85020 PALADIN85020 is offline
US Veteran
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,047
Likes: 1,445
Liked 23,209 Times in 3,037 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
By the way, why does the Super BH in your picture still have perfect bluing? Is that not the SBH you had in your youth?
Sadly, I traded the Super B I owned as a youth off for something else I wanted more. It had the original varnished grips and black eagle emblem. It was a "white box" issue made soon after Ruger quit providing a wooden box with the gun. Those boxes, made for a very short time, are now worth more than the guns they contained. Again sadly, my wife threw that valuable box out during a residence move. When I found out she had done that, I patiently explained that she should NEVER throw out a gun box again without my express permission! By the way, the serial number on that Super B was 10030. I still have a box of ammo I handloaded back then, and the label bears that number. If anyone here now has it - please PM me immediately!

Years later, I found a later gun made in 1973, just before the changeover to the "new model." It's as new in the box. That is the gun illustrated. For the record, I kept both guns in extremely nice condition - number 10030 did have just a tad of holster wear, though.

John
__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Last edited by PALADIN85020; 06-03-2018 at 11:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #124  
Old 06-03-2018, 11:25 AM
Old cop Old cop is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,653
Likes: 1,338
Liked 8,577 Times in 2,583 Posts
Default

I like single action six guns and some are the most beautiful things around, but it would NEVER be my first choice for self defense. In one of my deadly force confrontations the bad guy (BG) was armed w/a Ruger long barreled .45 of some sort (canít remember, it was 1974). I was carrying my issued Colt DS, other officers were carrying issued Model 15s and the BG was seriously outgunned. That said the BG did manage to shoot one cop in the chest w/one round (he survived) as the officer was trying to reload his Model 15. The BG never had a chance to reload before he was taken out of the fight, permanently.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #125  
Old 06-03-2018, 12:01 PM
American1776's Avatar
American1776 American1776 is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 2,089
Liked 2,498 Times in 709 Posts
Default

I think being proficient with a DOUBLE ACTION magnum revolver with 6-8 shots of full power 357, /41, or /44 magnum will be good for 99.9 percent of defensive needs. Those three magnum rounds out of a 3-4 inch barrel are pretty devastating with proper ammo.

A 6 shot SINGLE action revolver chambered in the magnums will require a ton of practice to shoot it fast and efficiently. But, I'd rather have a Ruger blackhawk 41 magnum loaded with Winchester Platinum Tips over any pocket pistol chambered in 380/38 spl., or less.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 06-03-2018, 01:31 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 148
Liked 1,549 Times in 769 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
A 6 shot SINGLE action revolver chambered in the magnums will require a ton of practice to shoot it fast and efficiently. But, I'd rather have a Ruger blackhawk 41 magnum loaded with Winchester Platinum Tips over any pocket pistol chambered in 380/38 spl., or less.
Pretty much any gun will work in most civilian encounters since just having one is usually enough of a deterrent that firing is not even necessary and if shots are fired, most criminals will cease hostilities and flee. Other than that, in situations where you have distance and will two hands on the gun, I think a single-action revolver will likely be adequate providing the owner is competent in it's use. However, most civilian self-defense encounters occur at at extremely close if not contact range.

My brother-in-law has several Ruger Blackhawks and RedHawks and my experience with single-action revolvers is limited to exposure to his. They are big, heavy guns that would be relatively very slow to bring into action during a reactive close-quarter defense scenarios compared with something like a J-Frame. One handed shooting is the norm in these situations as you are either using the other one for defense or as a leveraging arm or are moving dynamically.

I've not drilled any Force-on-Force with a SA and never will since I have no need or desire to, but I still think they would likely present some serious problems in the most likely encounters an armed civilian might find themselves in whereas the enclosed hammer snub revolver is nearly ideal for them.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 06-03-2018, 01:33 PM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 342
Liked 2,160 Times in 785 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
I like single action six guns and some are the most beautiful things around, but it would NEVER be my first choice for self defense. In one of my deadly force confrontations the bad guy (BG) was armed w/a Ruger long barreled .45 of some sort (canít remember, it was 1974). I was carrying my issued Colt DS, other officers were carrying issued Model 15s and the BG was seriously outgunned. That said the BG did manage to shoot one cop in the chest w/one round (he survived) as the officer was trying to reload his Model 15. The BG never had a chance to reload before he was taken out of the fight, permanently.
Old Cop...a couple of questions...

Was wondering how many officers were at the scene firing and what the distance was...

Did the Shootee have any extra ammo with him?

If he had been carrying a DA revolver or a semi of the times do you think he could have reloaded?

Thanks...Bob
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 06-04-2018, 03:05 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,020
Likes: 1,266
Liked 2,371 Times in 1,512 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
100% agree...but that is not what I am comparing... I have a 57 4" and would carry that over a 97 gladly...but I will take either over a snubbie.

As to your example of shoot-reload-shoot...again show me the hundreds or even dozens of self-defense shootings that require a reload. They don't exist.
Don't need to show you, common sense says you will fail if that does happen. Again, I don't carry or practice for the avg fight/99% attack. I assume the worst will happen & I will need the 9-11 I carry & a rapid reload. Multiple armed attackers are a growing threat, active shooters with long guns or semiautos, even non gun armed multi attackers, armed with a SA revo, you are hoping they run but if not, you are probably dead.
A SA revo may make you feel good in the part of the country you live in, you probably do not need to carry a gun anyway. If the point of the gun is to save my life in a fight, I want the greatest chance of doing just that. I think there are too many old guys that like me love my SA revo but really have no idea how a fight would go so armed. All the noise about deterrents, well there are nut jobs out there that are not deterred by the mere sight of a handgun, pull it, better be able to use it 100% effectively.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 06-04-2018 at 03:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #129  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:43 PM
deadear dan deadear dan is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Temecula, Ca.
Posts: 212
Likes: 31
Liked 108 Times in 54 Posts
Default

In a fast moving/messy self defense situation you do not want to have a "hair trigger" cocked single action revolver in your hand. Expect to loose fine motor skills rather quickly. The long smooth pull of kahr autos or a good revolver serves the purpose of avoiding an unintentional discharge. I practice exclusively in double action shooting though I was a SASS shooter 10+ years back. What you practice is how you will shoot. Be safe.

Last edited by deadear dan; 06-11-2018 at 12:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:24 PM
old tanker old tanker is offline
Member
Single Action Revolvers for Defense? Single Action Revolvers for Defense?  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Knox, Kentucky
Posts: 559
Likes: 1,802
Liked 828 Times in 309 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mule Packer View Post
...Sure, we'll always have the argument that semi-autos will fire faster. Our SASS group went up against the local police department in a shooting match...the cowboys using single-actions and the cops using semi-autos. Believe it or not, the cowboys won, not only in speed, but in accuracy...not just once, but several times...
Not all that terribly surprising s a lot of cops are simply not 'gun guys.' Or soldiers for that matter. They only shoot because the job makes them and then they spend the next two days bitchin' about having to clean their weapons. Just about every cop or soldier i knew that could really shoot learned on "his own dime and time." A few lucky enough to get assigned as instructors may have had access to more range time and ammo, if they wanted to take advantage of the opportunity.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single Action Revolvers CCantu357 Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 60 09-18-2015 04:08 AM
Single Action Revolvers for Self Defense? gen3guy Concealed Carry & Self Defense 115 07-02-2015 02:19 AM
Double action in a handgun is better than single action for self defense. sirrduke2010 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 19 12-26-2011 01:54 PM
S&W single action revolvers!! bigshep85 Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 7 12-04-2011 11:19 AM
Single action revolver for self defense. imjin138 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 45 09-08-2011 06:24 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)