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Old 05-23-2018, 11:17 AM
ABPOS ABPOS is offline
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Default Which model is your favorite?

I ask this in the Self Defense forum because my main reason for having them is concealed carry and self defense. I don't hunt any longer. If I did I might try the Model 19... But probably be better off with a long gun....

I posted this on AR15.com too, so some of you might see it over there. But I know there are a lot of guys here that are not over there. And I figured I'd get more good input on Smith revolvers here.

I know the original question is pretty much nearly impossible to answer, but try. If someone had a gun to your head and said you have to tell me which is your favorite........ Which would you pick?

And if you feel led, post why and pics along with it. The whole reason for the thread is to just talk about them.

I only have 2, but would like more. I can think of a lot of ones I'd want.

I have kept it no secret that the for whatever reason the gun that works out for me to carry the best out of all the ones I've tried is a 442. It is not a perfect choice, but to me it's the right choice for pretty much everything. My lifestyle and body. BUT, I do feel like I'd be better off with a steel framed J frame for carry. Like a 649 or 36 or 60 or 640.... I'm not sure I'd call any of those my favorite, but I just may if I had one.....

I also have a Model 19 6" that is super nice to shoot at the range. And can serve as a HD gun if one is so led. BUT, it is a bit gangly for me for 1 handed shooting and balances kind of front heavy. I could see liking something else a bit better. Like a model 10 3" or 4". Tapered barrel. I don't know......

I've never even shot an N frame...... I'm not even sure I've ever fondled one. I've fondled 686's before though.

1 thing is for sure, I can't explain why. I know they're not the best tool in the drawer. They have their downsides. But I freakin love revolvers. Now if I can just make it to the range to shoot these soon. A buddy from Church and I are planning on going soon. He's got a newer Taurus snubby he's not fired yet.....





Thank you!
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:29 PM
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Your 442 of course is a black version of the silver 642. I have a 642-1
that is carried more often than any of my others. Convenience is the
primary reason. The small size and light weight just makes it so handy.

I usually carry it in an OWB between 4 & 5 O'Clock. Left to Right below:

In Black Hills shark skin high ride pancake.
In Chic Gaylord small black speed scabbard.
In Price Western speed scabbard.
In TJ's black gator high ride.
In a Delfatti Inside Waist Band
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:56 PM
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ABPOS your last comment reminded me of an incident maybe 10 years
ago. I was giving a lady a gun handling/shooting lesson. She had a brand
new Taurus snubby. Never been fired. She was afraid and asked me if I
would shoot it first. Of course I did.

The first shot apparently punctured the primer because the hot gasses
and tiny particles of the ignition compound showered my face. It was
fortunate for me that I had glasses on. There were small chips in my
lenses, that could have been my eyes.

We continued shooting with no more problems. My theory is that perhaps
there was a small burr on the tip of the firing pin that came off with that
first shot, but I will never know.

The point is there is good reason to wear shooting glasses. In the days
of old the fulminate, used as the ignition compound, was made up partly
of tiny bits of ground glass. I don't know if it is still used, but we don't
want tiny bits of anything piercing our eyeballs do we?
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:08 PM
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Default FAVORITE!!!

My 640 Pro Series is my favorite carry piece. I bought a pancake OWB holster for it. I also have a IWB holster for it but I'm not to crazy about it. Love to shoot it and never leave home without it!! The other one is my wife's carry piece.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:14 PM
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Favorite carry for over 6 years. My 642-1 in an old Hunter cross-draw.

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Old 05-23-2018, 05:18 PM
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None of them.

All of them.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:26 PM
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Pre model 10 2” I pocket carry as I wear shorts a lot.


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Old 05-23-2018, 06:43 PM
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The 442s are my favorite carry guns but, I also carry a 36 sometimes with a pocket 442.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:50 PM
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I carry the Smith and Wesson 340 PD with 135 gr Speer Gold Dot short barrel .357 magnum ammunition. In a Galco horsehide pocket holster. Gun is under 12 ounces, and the whole package, loaded and holstered is just under one pound. This seems to be the lightest, most powerful package that I can come up with, and therefore, it gets carried every day.

But your 442 is pretty close, and I think it will make a great carry package for you.

The top Right hand gun is the 340 PD. I sometimes carry the others as well.



This is the holster I have used for years now, although it seems to have my stainless 640-1 Pro Series in it in this photograph. It will also hold the Colt "D" frames, such as the Detective Special, Cobra, and Agent.



Best Regards, Les
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by les.b View Post
I carry the Smith and Wesson 340 PD with 135 gr Speer Gold Dot short barrel .357 magnum ammunition. In a Galco horsehide pocket holster. Gun is under 12 ounces, and the whole package, loaded and holstered is just under one pound. This seems to be the lightest, most powerful package that I can come up with, and therefore, it gets carried every day.

Best Regards, Les

Same. In a Mika pocket holster.
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Old 05-23-2018, 09:26 PM
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TAKE SOME ADVICE FROM THIS OL' GEEZER. DO NOT SUCCUMB TO THE LOW PRICE, AND ATTRACTIVE LOOKS, OF TARUS FIREARMS. THEY ARE JUNK ! ! ! HOW DO I KNOW ? ? ? BEEN THERE, AND DONE THAT......

IMHO, THE S&W M686+ IS THE VERY BEST .357 MAGNUM REVOLVER, IN CURRENT PRODUCTION ! ! ! THERE IS NO REASON FOR YOU TO BUY A NEW ONE.....

I SUGGEST THAT YOU PICK UP A CLEAN, USED M686, FROM A NO-DASH TO A -4 VERSION. NONE WILL HAVE THE IL, OR MIM PARTS. THE -4 VERSION IS THOUGHT TO BE THE BEST OF THE BUNCH, BY MANY.......

DEPENDING ON YOUR PURPOSE, ANY LENGTH, FROM 2 1/2", 3", OR 4" WILL DO. ANY OF THEM CAN BE CARRIED CONCEALED. ALL OF THEM ARE VERY ACCURATE. THE 4"--ESP THE M686+ MOUNTAIN GUN, IS THE MOST VERSATILE. ITS EXCELLENT FOR EDC, SD AND HD, RANGE USE AND FIELD USE. THE 7TH ROUND, MAY SOMEDAY SAVE YOUR LIFE.....

BELOW ARE PICS OF MY M686+ MG (EXTREME LEFT IN THE 3 GUN LINE UP) AND MY 2 EDC GUNS. THE 642-1 WEARS A SET OF CRIMSON TRACE, LG-405, LASER GRIPS. THEY FEATURE A MOLDED IN AIR POCKET, HIGH ON THE BACK STRAP, THAT DAMPENS RECOIL.......

THE M686+, BEGAN ITS LIFE WITH ME AS A VERY CLEAN, LIGHTLY USED, 2 1/2", NO-DASH, M686. I PURCHASED IT ON GB, FOR REASONABLE MONEY. I PURCHASED IT, IN ORDER TO TURN IT INTO A RELIABLE EDC WEAPON, FOR SD. IT HAD NOT BEEN MODIFIED, AS PER THE FACTORY RECALL (NO "M" STAMP), SO I SENT IT IN FOR THE FREE MODS. WHILE IT WAS THERE, I REQUESTED THAT THEY FIT IT WITH A 7 SHOT CYLINDER. UPON ITS RETURN, I SENT IT TO DENNY REICHARD, MASSAD AYOOB'S GUNSMITH, @ SAND BURR GUN RANCH. HE GAVE IT A "DELUXE ACTION" TREATMENT, RENDERING IT SLICKER THAN SNOTS ! ! ! THAT, AND THE 642-1, IS WHAT I BET MY LIFE ON......
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:02 PM
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One eye joe, Denny does some "fine" work and he is a HOOT to talk to!!!!!
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:24 PM
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A 2 1/2" 686-4 IWB with short barrel gold dot in cooler weather.

When the uniform of the day is T-shirt,shorts and sandals I pocket carry an SR22 with 11 stingers.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:38 PM
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60
642 no lock
M&P40c (v1.0)

My 4" 686 -4 conceals nicely but sticks out below my belt a little too far. I still carry it occasionally but it's mostly for the range. The model 60 (shown) is from the mid '70s and is a joy to shoot. Been carrying it a lot lately.

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Old 05-24-2018, 12:57 PM
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I have two guns that I felt carried the best, are both incredibly reliable and are of excellent quality.

One is my S&W 642-2 38 special +P and the other was my Kahr K9. I sold the K9 and it was not a easy decision. It felt so perfect in the hand, smoother than lard on ball bearings and carried very well in a DeSantis OWB speed scabbard holster. I sold it because in the end, after owning it and shooting it, even used it in several IDPA matches, I wasn't as accurate as I wanted to be with it. I can draw the 642 out of my pocket or OWB Bianchi Lightnin' 55 holster faster & put more tighter hits on target. 5 shots vs 8 shot magazine? Means nothing if you can't put them all on a paper plate at 20 yards as quickly as possible.

On a side note:

I've been known to occasionally carry my police trade 4" heavy barrel mod 10 in a OWB Desantis thumb break speed scabbard. Good enough for LEO's, good enough for me.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:00 PM
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I love them both. I'd put some wood magnas with a Tyler T on the 442 and pack that little blaster.
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Old 05-24-2018, 02:48 PM
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One eye joe, Denny does some "fine" work and he is a HOOT to talk to!!!!!
sdb321, I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE, ON BOTH COUNTS ! ! !

DESPITE ALL OF HIS OUTSTANDING ACHIEVEMENTS, HE IS A DOWN TO EARTH GUY, VERY PERSONABLE, AND QUITE A CHARACTER. I HAD TWO GREAT CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM, EMANATING FROM DISCUSSIONS ABOUT MY REVOLVER......

HE IS VERY ACCOMMODATING, AND WHEN HE LEARNED THAT I WAS A DISABLED VIETNAM VETERAN, WHO HAD TRAINED WITH MAS AYOOB, HE "ROLLED OUT THE RED CARPET" FOR ME. THE LAMINATED AND SIGNED BUSINESS CARD, THAT HE CUT IN HALF, WITH A .44MAG ROUND SHOT ON EDGE, HAS BECOME ONE OF MY PRIZED POSSESSIONS......

HIS WORK IS OUTSTANDING. HE WOULD NOT BE WORKING ON AYOOB'S GUNS, OR ENJOY HIS ENDORSEMENT, IF IT WAS NOT. HE IS ALSO ONE OF AYOOB'S LETHAL FORCE INSTITUTE INSTRUCTORS......

THERE IS A GREAT INTERVIEW OF DENNY @ SAND BURR GUN RANCH, ON YOUTUBE. IT IS REFERENCED IN ONE OF THE POSTS, ON THIS THREAD.....
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:02 PM
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First off, Thank you for your service!!! Guys & gals like you make my life in this wonderful country possible!!!! Secondly I live around an hour away from the shop & I have a ball every time I visit his establishment. I'm jealous that you got one of the playing cards!!!! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:15 PM
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First off, Thank you for your service!!! Guys & gals like you make my life in this wonderful country possible!!!! Secondly I live around an hour away from the shop & I have a ball every time I visit his establishment. I'm jealous that you got one of the playing cards!!!! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!
THANK YOU SOO MUCH, FOR YOUR MORE THAN KIND WORDS, sdb321, ESPECIALLY ON THIS MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND.....

I'D BE AT DENNY'S SHOP WEEKLY, IF I LIVED IN SUCH CLOSE PROXIMITY. I WOULD HAVE TO INVENT REASONS, WHY I "NEEDED TO VISIT". HE HAS SOME GREAT LOOKING HOLSTERS, OF HIS OWN UNIQUE DESIGN, FOR SALE IN THE SHOP---AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE. HIS DAUGHTER IS ALSO A VERY NICE PERSON---VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE, AND VERY WELL ARMED.....

DENNY'S SHOP WOULD BE THE VERY WORST PLACE, THAT CRIMINALS COULD CHOOSE TO ROB ! ! !
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:41 PM
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:46 AM
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I would have to say neither .. The reason is where I live near .. The city violent crime rate for Peoria was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 91.45% and the city property crime rate in Peoria was higher than the national property crime rate average by 57.01%.

Peoria is a very short 8 miles from me .. the barrier between the town I live and Peoria is the Illinois River ..

The last few murders/killings/gang shootings all had more then 8 shots fired with the highest being 18 ..

I would not carry anything that will hold less the 10 rounds and really prefer even more !!

I'm carrying a Beretta PX4 Sub Compact in 9mm which is 13+1 with a extra mag weak side or 27 total rounds .. when I have to cross the river I carry 17 round full size mags with it giving me 35 total rounds with the same 1 extra mag ..
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Old 05-25-2018, 02:00 PM
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I would have to say neither .. The reason is where I live near .. The city violent crime rate for Peoria was higher than the national violent crime rate average by 91.45% and the city property crime rate in Peoria was higher than the national property crime rate average by 57.01%.

Peoria is a very short 8 miles from me .. the barrier between the town I live and Peoria is the Illinois River ..

The last few murders/killings/gang shootings all had more then 8 shots fired with the highest being 18 ..

I would not carry anything that will hold less the 10 rounds and really prefer even more !!

I'm carrying a Beretta PX4 Sub Compact in 9mm which is 13+1 with a extra mag weak side or 27 total rounds .. when I have to cross the river I carry 17 round fuwabitll size mags with it giving me 35 total rounds with the same 1 extra mag ..
W T G, Whitebait ! ! !

I LEARNED LONG AGO, IN VIETNAM, THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "TOO MUCH AMMO"......

FOR 4 DECADES, AFTER VIETNAM, MY EDC WAS A SLICKED UP COLT, GOLD CUP. I CARRIED THREE OF CHIP McCORMICK'S 10 ROUND MAGS---ONE IN THE WEAPON, AND TWO ON THE BELT. WITH ONE ROUND IN THE TUBE, COCKED 'N LOCKED, I HAD 31 ROUNDS OF SJHP, IN .45 ACP. JUST ENUFF, BY MY CALCULATIONS, TO HANDLE ANY SITUATION, THAT I MIGHT ENCOUNTER.....

NOW, IN MY OLD AGE, WITH LIMITED RANGE OF TRAVEL, AND LOSS OF DEXTERITY TO SAFELY AND RELIABLY OPERATE THE CONTROLS OF A 1911, I HAVE DOWN SIZED. FOR HIGHER RISK EDC. I RELY ON A 2 1/2" M686+, BACKED UP BY A M642-1. ACCOMPANIED BY 2 BIANCHI SPEED STRIPS, I HAVE 24 ROUND OF SPEER, GOLD DOT, IN .38SPL+P, ON TAP. THAT'S STILL NOT TOO SHABBY.....

KUDOS TO YOU, ON YOUR FORESIGHT, AND LEVEL OF PREPAREDNESS. I HOPE THAT NEITHER ONE OF US HAS TO USE OUR WEAPONS, BUT AT LEAST, WE ARE WELL ARMED........
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:21 PM
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My favorite EDC is my 19-4 snub, next, my 640 .38 spl.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:36 PM
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M640 .357 Magnum
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:33 AM
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640-1 Pro Series. It's 24 ounces loaded, a half pound heavier than an M&P 340 with the same ammo. I'm 6'4" and weigh about 225 -- the extra eight ounces are a wash.
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:49 AM
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For the armed civilian, I think the snub revolver makes a lot of sense. No one has yet been able to convince me otherwise. My current personal favorite is the S&W 642 factoring in all considerations(price, weight, shoot-ability, frame style, rust resistance etc.) although any of the enclosed hammer models would be pretty good choices IMO.

Police & Military have different needs than I when it comes to firearms although the same could be said about gang members, terrorists and active-shooters. I'm none of those. Proactive longer range engagement simply doesn't realistically apply to me. It's pretty much all about reactive close-quarters for the most part when it comes to civilian self-defense and the snub revolver excels there.

There's plenty of stats and studies on civilian self-defense encounters available and enough video footage to watch that you could pretty much spend all day, every day doing so with active self-protection being an excellent source. And one thing I'm not seeing is civilians being involved in high round count ranged gunfights. They are virtually non-existent and since they are so improbable, why would I choose a tool geared for them instead of one that's better suited for what I'm most likely to be involved in while at the same time being easier and less of a burden to carry.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:22 AM
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For everyday carry the full-size 1911 .45 pistol is my preference (Kimber Custom CDP for the past 12 years or so, long enough to be on its second set of night sights).

For occasional use, like very hot summer days when only minimal cover garment can be used, I like my old S&W Model 64 round-butt 2" .38 Special (police surplus piece from my younger days).

Absolute favorite handgun overall, my Colt Single Action Army 'Frontier Six Shooter' .44-40. Manufactured in 1914 and still doing its job today! Strap it on with a Lobo Gun Leather hand-tooled Tom Threepersons-style holster and I'm ready for the best barbeque parties.

A final "must have" piece is the old Browning Hi Power. 1935 technology that has never truly been outclassed.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:56 AM
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I posted my favorite carry gun previously, that said, I find myself carrying one of my 1911"s...….more and more.
Which model is your favorite?-img_0869-jpgWhich model is your favorite?-img_0795-2-jpg
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:02 PM
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My preferred everyday carry is a LW Commander, .45acp, with or without an inside the waist band holster. However, I do occasionally carry my 5-shot , 2.5" CA Bulldog in a pancake behind my right hip.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:03 PM
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On the revolver side; I'm lucky enough to have 3" 66s and 65. I carry in a Milt Sparks Summer Special.

Autos..... a 3913NL ,Performance Center Shorty 9 (hi-cap 3913).......with s soft spots for;

S&W 915 and 6906/04s
and
Beretta 92 Compact, Centurion and the single stack Type-M.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:18 PM
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My favorite and most often carried is a Colt Lightweight Commander in 45 ACP and
or any number of N frame S&Ws in 357, 44 Spl or 45 LC.

I had never carried a J frame, till I was in my mid-fifty's and then only as an ankle gun while working.


.
Pictured here is my Colt and an N frame S&W that I like and can
carry concealed comfortably in all the get-ups I choose to wear, all year-round.





I try to carry something that doesn't leave me wantin more at the end of the day....
What with having been to the big city and seeing the elephant.




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Old 06-04-2018, 12:19 PM
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While shopping or just around town.. Mdl.60 .357

Walking in the forest.. either a 1911 45acp or a 44mag.

Trip to the city.. EAA Witness in 10mm 14round mag.

Nice to have choices..
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Old 06-04-2018, 01:28 PM
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If I had to choose one, Nighthawk T3 (Commander slide on Officers model frame). If I got to choose two, I’d add the 442. I live in the Central Valley of California, where it’s rare to wear a coat during the winter. On those rare occasions when I escape to cold weather I carry the T3 under a coat and the 442 in a coat pocket holster.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:39 PM
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I'm retired, broke, and down to only one handgun. But when I owned others, my favorite was the one I've kept and carry daily, an early-production (1990) 640 .38 Special.

If I were buying a second gun it would be a snub Model 64, or if I could find one, a four-inch standard-barrel 64.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:12 PM
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My 4" 19-4 was, is, and always will be my favorite revolver, but it is a little large to EDC, especially in the warm weather. Picked up a Model 66 Combat Magnum recently. Barrel's 2.75" and the grips aren't quite as big. It's very well mannered with 357, even more so with 38+p. As soon as I find a suitable holster, it's going with me every day.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:58 AM
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Snub 325 45acp
lighter than my alloy commander and I shoot revolvers way more than semis. If it all goes south I want muscle memory and familiar and a big bore.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:20 AM
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I like the Lady Smith model 60. It is a snubnose,light,the best trigger IMO,a 357 mag & 38 and VERY pleasing to the eye. I carry AIWB. I like a hammer. Sold my 642 but carry a snubnose with 2 speed strips.

Be SAFE and shoot often!

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Old 06-09-2018, 07:49 AM
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Good old 38 spl… been doing the job since 1898
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:03 AM
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well Guys ,, I have 6 handguns 5 revolvers and one semi (Bodyguard 380 which is back at the shop for the third time) my 327 PC 8 shot I love in the winter and my Kimber k6S 2 inch for edc for hot days .
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:13 PM
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ABPOS,

Since we are talking about personal protection here, the best handgun gun for the job is one that you will not hesitate to have on your person if and when the need for a gun arises. On your person means that it is one you can carry easily in your preferred method of carry, that you can access quickly and easily and securely, and that fits your hands well and that you can shoot accurately. So ... everything is somewhat of a compromise, right? And different folks have different sized hands, bodies methods of preferred dress, and on and on it goes. No one may like what you choose but if it works well for you, then it's what you need for the job.

I have many revolvers and a few semi autos that I love, but which I do not carry every day. Many years of trying many different guns for long enough periods of time to really get to know how they work for me has distilled my choices for EDC down to just a few. These may not be the gun I'd choose to have with me if I KNEW I was going to need a gun, but then again, if I knew beforehand that I was going to need a gun, I just wouldn't go there!

Weight and size matters for all day, every day carry. Of course, those things also matter for ease of grip and shooting operation. Compromise, remember? My EDC choices for carry for revolvers are two. My all time favorite J frame is a Model 640-1 steel framed revolver. It is always carried in a waist band holster, mostly IWB. The barrel is a touch longer than some J Frames, which I like. It is heavy enough to be very controllable for me, and it shoots very well. It is a Centennial style without the exposed hammer (nothing to catch on clothing as I draw it). I only shoot revolvers double action and have little, if any, need to use single action for personal protection needs.

My second choice of revolver is a Model 442 like the one shown in your picture. I bought it shortly after this model was first released. If and when I have need to carry in a pocket, this is the gun I choose because it is lighter in weight. I can still shoot it just fine with +P .38 Special ammo (my ammo of choice for both J Frames, BTW, and I am comfortable with that choice), and it matches the Model 640 in operation and benefits other than weight. Same grips on both, same drill, and familiarity with both is a comfort. Both will fit in the same holsters IWB or OWB (my holsters are chosen or built to accept the slightly longer barrel on the 640. And of course, any other Centennial style S&W matches these as far as familiarity is concerned. The Model 642, for another example.

My other EDC choice is an S&W MP45 (I also have an S&W MP9 that I had first and also carried.) I have no problem with carrying 9MM, I just prefer the .45ACP and my MP45 is the hands down winner for me for EDC. I carry it mostly IWB but can also carry OWB if I choose.

These are my choices for what you describe. They may or may not be your choice, or anyone else's. That's OK by me. But these work and work very well for me, and they cover all my needs. I also own a Ruger LCP II if I really need a sure enough small gun for some particular reason or a BUG, but that is a specialty need that does not often occur for me. My familiarity with the three guns I mention is a very comforting thing for me. I cannot really conceive of any other guns that would work any better for me than these. So I do not expect to replace them as my personal protection handguns. I have a different gun at my beside, but it has an entirely different purpose as relates to personal protection. I do not "carry" it. It holds a lot more ammo and wears a Crimson Trace laser sight that works very well in low or no light. Having the right tool (for you and for the job) that allows you to do a good job is the tool you need! My search has been time consuming, somewhat expensive, interesting and fun, but the end result is very satisfactory for me. Good luck with your quest!
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:31 PM
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edit to comment number 21 : more reasons that neither are appropriate for me in my area .. The E. St Louis, Peoria, Rockford, and of course Chicago are the main crime areas in Illinois ..

this is for Peoria, Illinois .. Peoria, IL Crime Rates & Statistics

The crime data reveals that the overall Peoria, IL crime rates are 85% higher than in comparison to the Illinois mean and are 62% higher than the nation's mean. In regards to violent offenses, Peoria, IL has a rate that is 74% higher than the Illinois average; compared to the United States, it is 97% higher than. Looking at crimes involving property, Peoria, IL is 88% higher than its state's mean, and 57% higher than the country's average ..

Edit .. there have been 9 homicides in Peoria so far this year ..

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Old 06-09-2018, 05:23 PM
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edit to comment number 21 : more reasons that neither are appropriate for me in my area .. The E. St Louis, Peoria, Rockford, and of course Chicago are the main crime areas in Illinois ..

this is for Peoria, Illinois .. Peoria, IL Crime Rates & Statistics

The crime data reveals that the overall Peoria, IL crime rates are 85% higher than in comparison to the Illinois mean and are 62% higher than the nation's mean. In regards to violent offenses, Peoria, IL has a rate that is 74% higher than the Illinois average; compared to the United States, it is 97% higher than. Looking at crimes involving property, Peoria, IL is 88% higher than its state's mean, and 57% higher than the country's average ..

Edit .. there have been 9 homicides in Peoria so far this year ..
How does that translate into needing a higher capacity weapon?

A higher crime rate just means there is more of them, it doesn't mean different types of crime are occurring.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:51 PM
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A 66-1 or a stainless 18 (618?) with a 5" barrel and Patridge sights. Too bad they never made them.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:39 PM
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How does that translate into needing a higher capacity weapon?

A higher crime rate just means there is more of them, it doesn't mean different types of crime are occurring.
The higher crime rate is gang related and while at one time it was mainly gang on gang violence the tide has turned and more gang related crimes against the public to get their badges or what ever the Perps gang members call them !!

Burglaries during the day when a car load of perps knock on the door if no one answers around to the back they go to break a window or a sliding glass door .. A similar break-in in Memphis where owner used an AR to neutralize the threat .. believed 2 were killed ..

Man's home was invaded last year and he was pushed down the basement steps and died several days later because of a head injury .. 3-4 Perps were suppose to be involved ..

I'm a pretty good shot but doubt with any caliber more then one shot will be needed to stop a perp .. unless a head shot is used . 3 guys against a 5 or 6 shot revolver .. I'll stick with my 13+1 Beretta !! with at least the same in an off side magazine ..

Edit .. That gives me twice the firepower with out a reload being needed .. the possible need for a 7th or 8th shot keeps me carrying what I do .. That reload after 5 or 6 may well be what kills you ..

How many shots can someone with a Glock with a 30 round mag shoot in the time you take to reload ?? can you reload in 3 seconds .. perp could probably get 3 to 5 shots or more during that time ..

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Old 06-09-2018, 08:50 PM
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I've carried a Colt Commander in .38 Super just about daily since 1980. A blue one from 1980 till 2007 and now the same gun but in hard chrome..just took it off a few minutes ago...

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Old 06-09-2018, 10:04 PM
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The higher crime rate is gang related and while at one time it was mainly gang on gang violence the tide has turned and more gang related crimes against the public to get their badges or what ever the Perps gang members call them !!

Burglaries during the day when a car load of perps knock on the door if no one answers around to the back they go to break a window or a sliding glass door .. A similar break-in in Memphis where owner used an AR to neutralize the threat .. believed 2 were killed ..

Man's home was invaded last year and he was pushed down the basement steps and died several days later because of a head injury .. 3-4 Perps were suppose to be involved ..

I'm a pretty good shot but doubt with any caliber more then one shot will be needed to stop a perp .. unless a head shot is used . 3 guys against a 5 or 6 shot revolver .. I'll stick with my 13+1 Beretta !! with at least the same in an off side magazine ..

Edit .. That gives me twice the firepower with out a reload being needed .. the possible need for a 7th or 8th shot keeps me carrying what I do .. That reload after 5 or 6 may well be what kills you ..

How many shots can someone with a Glock with a 30 round mag shoot in the time you take to reload ?? can you reload in 3 seconds .. perp could probably get 3 to 5 shots or more during that time ..
I can see the reasoning behind your choice, but where is the evidence?

How many cases of a civilian being forced to engage in a high round count shoot-out with gang members can you find? Bad guys tend to pick easy targets. They want victims, not adversaries. That's why they flee once the gun comes out or the shooting starts no matter how many there happens to be. You just need "the ability to change the direction of the bad guy's intent".

A lot of people will say even though you might not need that extra firepower, it doesn't hurt to have it. That sounds sensible, but everything is a compromise and there will be trade-offs somewhere. By going to a high-capacity autoloader you trade away the extreme close-quarter advantages of the hammerless snubnose revolver. What are you more likely to be involved in; a high round shoot-out with multiple armed gang members at relatively long range or an up close and personal mugging, armed robbery, car jacking or physical assault? The latter incidents we see occurring pretty routinely, but not the former.

What if attacked and beaten by multiple attackers like we so frequently see on the news? I'll still take the snub since it will be easier and quicker to access and get into action as well as be much more retainable and reliable in that environment.

I'm not referring to home defense since I thought the context was carry weapons and I still have several Glocks that I would likely utilize in certain home defense instances as well as when I travel, but in many home defense cases like the old mans case you referenced, I think the snub revolver just might still make a lot of sense.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:06 PM
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I can see the reasoning behind your choice, but where is the evidence?

How many cases of a civilian being forced to engage in a high round count shoot-out with gang members can you find? Bad guys tend to pick easy targets. They want victims, not adversaries. That's why they flee once the gun comes out or the shooting starts no matter how many there happens to be. You just need "the ability to change the direction of the bad guy's intent".

A lot of people will say even though you might not need that extra firepower, it doesn't hurt to have it. That sounds sensible, but everything is a compromise and there will be trade-offs somewhere. By going to a high-capacity autoloader you trade away the extreme close-quarter advantages of the hammerless snubnose revolver. What are you more likely to be involved in; a high round shoot-out with multiple armed gang members at relatively long range or an up close and personal mugging, armed robbery, car jacking or physical assault? The latter incidents we see occurring pretty routinely, but not the former.

What if attacked and beaten by multiple attackers like we so frequently see on the news? I'll still take the snub since it will be easier and quicker to access and get into action as well as be much more retainable and reliable in that environment.

I'm not referring to home defense since I thought the context was carry weapons and I still have several Glocks that I would likely utilize in certain home defense instances as well as when I travel, but in many home defense cases like the old mans case you referenced, I think the snub revolver just might still make a lot of sense.
I would much rather have more then enough bullets then be just even 1 short.. That could easily cause you to be a statistic .. something I'm not ready to be yet .. you carry your snubbie with 5 or 6 shots and I will carry my 13+1 .. may not need it but then if I do that 3 to 5 second reload you will have to do will like get you killed !! and if you don't practice reloading under stress your reload time could be as much as 8 to 10 seconds if you fumble under the pressure .. are you willing to make that commitment to practicing reloading a revolver .. many are not and that alone make the auto a better carry ..
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:16 AM
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I would much rather have more then enough bullets then be just even 1 short.. That could easily cause you to be a statistic .. something I'm not ready to be yet .. you carry your snubbie with 5 or 6 shots and I will carry my 13+1 .. may not need it but then if I do that 3 to 5 second reload you will have to do will like get you killed !! and if you don't practice reloading under stress your reload time could be as much as 8 to 10 seconds if you fumble under the pressure .. are you willing to make that commitment to practicing reloading a revolver .. many are not and that alone make the auto a better carry ..
Where is the evidence that 5 rounds won't likely be enough?

There are thousands of cases of civilians using firearms in self-defense each year, but the percentage of incidents that exceed the capacity of the revolver is extremely small if there are any at all in a given year.

And reloading is an even rarer occurrence.

Having greater capacity is better than having less providing all things are equal, but things are rarely equal and it surely isn't the case in this comparison. To gain those extra rounds, you have to make compromises. By going to a high capacity autoloader, you get a gun that will be slower to get into action, offers a lesser degree of functional weapon retention against disarm attempts and is less reliable, especially in extreme close-quarter scenarios.

Many folks will say their autoloaders are just as reliable as a revolver and my Glocks are extremely so in the context of range shooting, but it's extremely rare to see footage of an actual defense scenario that has any resemblance to the controlled type of shooting most people do at the range. Shooting one-handed, while in movement, from awkward positions or at contact distance seem to be the norm and as reliable as my Glocks are, I just don't have the confidence in them that I have with a revolver in that context.

You say the slow reloading times of the revolver will get you killed, but what about a malfunction, disarm or an unintentional mag dump with an auto? I've seen numerous competitors say they see malfunctions and inadvertent mag dumps at pretty much every practical shooting match they go to and these are highly skilled and experienced individuals in a relatively controlled environment. Might the chances of problems be much greater in the chaos of a life and death situation? Plus ECQ scenarios are not included there, but watch footage of some of Craig Douglas' ECQC courses and you will see frequent malfunctions with the Glock sim guns.

And I'm talking a carry weapon. For home defense in situations where you have more time to prepare and establish distance from a relatively fixed location from which you can shoot from a stable two-handed platform, I think the high capacity auto makes sense. Or even a long gun perhaps. However, if answering the door to a stranger, stepping outside to walk the dog, get the mail, take out the trash and even investigating a noise, I'll opt for the snub due to the potential of an ECQ situation. Plus it's much easier and more practical to have an airweight snub on me all the time compared with my Glock 17/19 as I may not have time or opportunity to retrieve it.

Just friendly debate.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:24 AM
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This is a debate we can not solve on line as everyone has different conditions, acceptable risk levels, etc.

That said, some very good comments are here and one needs to find the right balance for him/her between portability, capacity, and shootability.

For me, I carry a M64-2 snubby, an LCR or my G43 in that priority. I prefer the simplicity of a revolver and can accept the risk of lower capacity compared to other guns I own when carrying due to where I live and travel to.

When I go to the big cities around me, I upgun to larger capacity, usually with my M&P 9c.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:10 PM
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Which model is your favorite? Which model is your favorite? Which model is your favorite? Which model is your favorite? Which model is your favorite?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pensacola, Fl
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For years carried a Ruger SP101 in 357 mag snub. Carried a 642 for the lighter weight until one of our daughters decided it had her name on it. Been carrying the little 9mm Shield a lot lately. Not exactly a candidate for WWF Raw I find myself looking at weapon weight more and more. If I lived in Peoria like Whitwabit I would carry two 1911s and a pocket full of mags!
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