Been pocket carrying since the spring of 2014 (when I took a job at a local Stop & Rob).

No unwanted discharges yet but I did have the inglorious experience of drawing pocket holster with revolver once! Holster sailed through air and landed in an ash pit....was practicing draws and firing at a friend's house.

Yeah, you'd think this was the Remington forum or something...

In my case, when I go to bed at night I have two dozen handguns pointed directly at me. Fortunately if any of them went off they'd have to go through the side of a thick steel safe and two interior walls first.

With a concealed-hammer DAO revolver in a pocket holster, I don't worry about it.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Hardly. It happens more often than you think. I’ve seen a couple cases of it and had it happen once myself. I was a young lad, shooting my Dad’s Sako .222 from the bench. All was proceeding normally until I closed the bolt and - bang! After cleaning the trigger, back to normal. It was a harmless but valuable lesson, and it came to me at a perfect time - viz., very early in my shooting life. Since then I’ve always taken special care to be sure any gun I handle is pointed in a safe direction when closing the action or snicking off the safety, as if expecting a discharge.

Admittedly, its difficult to maintain 100%-compliance with Rule 2, particularly with handguns, but I maintain it is not to be trifled with, or “interpreted.” Do the best you can. JMHO.

I tried the trigger on one of those small Ruger 9mm's. I'd be afraid to carry a gun like that.

So...a DA/SA pistol with the hammer off the sear and at rest can go off..? NOT..!!!

and a revolver with the hammer off the sear and at rest can go off..? NOT..!!!

So if NOT..then what exactly makes them unsafe to pocket carry..?? Inquisitive minds need to know..(I already do)

The small Ruger 9mm EC9 and LC9 are striker fired..I'd be afraid to..

I've come to like PC'ing very much now days.I, PC my S&W M&P BG,442-2,& 638-3 .38 SPL+P's 5 shot's.

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Life is short,live it fully.

If I were to pocket carry it would be a revolver and not a auto .. The long heavy DA pull is sufficient enough not to worry about a ND !

My problem is while sitting it takes about 3 or 4 times as long to get a full purchase on my carry weapon in my pocket as it does in the 4 o'clock position I carry in .. and its very obvious I am going after something ..

While at 4 o'clock my wife who is always with me could shield me drawing from that position even while seated where no one could see .. and the time to draw is much shorter !!

You sir see the world with both eyes open. I'd shoot with you any time.

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Freedom isn't free.

I'm not sure I have read anybody say that the proper holster is an integral part of firearm safety, and that is probably doubly true with pocket carry. Between a long, stiff double action only design and this arrangement, I feel very safe and secure with a Pocket Concealment Systems holster for a Seecamp. Covers the triggerguard completely, stays put, and both pistol and spare magazine remain free of lint and ****.

I could have a whole lotta fun with this about an hour into happy hour. But then again, I have a vivid sense of humor.

Back to serious: you'll never experience a negligent discharge if you keep your finger off of a gun's trigger (and keep it protected from objects that can cause a ND) until you intend to fire it.

Splitting hairs ain't you boss ?
Think about it, IWB , OWB , shoulder holster, ankle holster even a Sneaky Pete holster...that barrel is pointing at some part of your anatomy.

If it bothers you....leave the gun at home.

Gary

My problem with pocket carry is that it is sloooow .. It takes me forever to get it out of my pocket when seated .. and gets hung up about 1/3 of the time increasing the time even longer .. And even standing it will add a few seconds to a draw that needs to be as fast as possible !!

IWB at 4:30 is a much faster draw for me and less of a chance of being shot by a perp if the need to draw down on the perp ..

I’ve been pocket or IWB carrying for a long time and follow all the common sense rules about holsters, reholstering etc. My one other rule is I will not carry any 1911 style weapon (to include Glocks), in a pocket or IWB. I’m not suggesting what others should do but it just makes me nervous.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

This doesn't make any sense. Glocks are completely different than 1911s. Can you clarify what you're saying some more?

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Freedom isn't free.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, most people who are sitting won't be able to get the gun out at all.

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Freedom isn't free.

A well designed holster is always your first level safety, regardless of what you carry.

I put true pocket carry without a holster right up there with just sticking the handgun in your waist band. There is nothing at all protecting the trigger.

Just as bad are those incredibly stupid clips that go on the slide of a pistol or between the stock and grip frame of a revolver. They are more secure than just sticking it in the waist band, but they provide zero protection of the trigger, particularly when inserting it in the waist band.

These are just as bad. Versa Carry sent me one to evaluate and my report was not kind at all. It provides zero protection for the trigger and is a great way to shoot yourself when inserting it in the waist band. I wasn't even remotely comfortable carry a PPK/S with a heavy DA trigger and a hammer that I could feel coming back if the trigger were obstructed. . The saving grace was that I could at least engage the safety when inserting it in my waistband. Yet I see total morons carry Glocks or other pistols with no manual safety, no exposed hammer, and a comparatively light trigger in these. Versa Carry do come out with a "II" model that partially covers the trigger but it's only partially better.



I also see hosters like this. They are thin and comfortable and do provide protection from lint and from the trigger being disturbed, but only once the pistol is in the holster. And as seen below, it's possible for the lip to roll up and enter the trigger guard.



The most important part of this holster is the belt clip, since it allows the pistol or revolver to be holstered out in front of you where you can visually verify the trigger is not obstructed, and then once this is done, the holster and pistol or revolver can be inserted in the waist band as a single unit, with the trigger protected.



Pocket holsters are designed to be used exactly that way, and a decent one is designed so that when you draw the handgun, the holster catches and stays in the pocket.




A well designed OWB or IWB holster should have a mouth comprised of double thickness leather with a metal or polymer insert in between to hold it open, even when it's in your waistband with the pistol or revolver removed.



If it also has a belt clip that allows the holster to be removed to holster or re-holster the handgun, that's a big plus.



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I'll throw in a couple additional points on concealed carry in general.

Glocks made huge in roads into law enforcement because it was easy to train an officer familiar with a DA revolver to use one as, just like a DA or DAO revolver, there was no safety to worry about. However, the intended use was in an OWB duty holster, and if you compare duty holsters now with duty holsters then you'll find many of the current crop stick out from the belt at distances we would have found absurd 20-30 years ago.

Why the increased distance? Partly to allow the officer to better observe the pistol being holstered and /or to reduce the potential for clothing to enter the trigger guard and obstruct the trigger. It's also partly to reduce the chance of an ND while re-holstering a striker fired pistol with no manual safety, reducing the chance of "Glock" leg if an ND occurs.

It's not unheard of after an actual shoot for an officer to try to re-holster the pistol with his or her finger still on the trigger. Loud noise results, and that greater leg to muzzle distance helps prevent officers from shooting themselves in the leg.

A lot of shooters choose Glocks or similar striker fired pistols with all the safeties tied to the trigger because they are popular with police, so they must be the best. Right? The part they miss is that most police officers use them in duty holsters that stand out away from the leg. If the shooter plans on conceal carrying one, then proper holster selection is absolutely critical. Attempting to re-holster a pistol into an IWB or even OWB concealed carry holster while it is in or on the belt will result in an ND sooner or later, as sooner or later an obstruction will find it's way into the trigger guard and obstruct the trigger.

A proper holster for a striker fired pistol with no manual safety will have stiff mouth that stays open and a clip that allows the holster to be removed, so that re-holstering can occur out in front of you where you can visually confirm the trigger is clear.

The same applies to a hammerless revolver or a revolver with a shrouded hammer. Yes, the DA trigger pull is heavier than with most striker fired pistols, but like a striker fired pistol, there is no way to feel the hammer coming back if the trigger is obstructed. You need to re-holster accordingly.

Personally, I've never encountered problems with a hammer snagging during a draw and that is my opinion more of a theoretical problem than an actual problem. All my revolvers have hammers. There's no real downside and at times the ability to shoot single action is a plus. And they are safer to holster as they provide tactile feedback if the trigger is obstructed if you keep your thumb over the hammer.

The biggest problem with the Versa carry is not that it doesn't cover the trigger (isn't the trigger covered while the gun is IWB?) but that it requires a rod to be inserted in the muzzle. I have a friend that had one and that rod broke off once. That left an obstruction in the barrel. Whoever designed that "holster" definitely doesn't understand firearms and they should be removed from the market if they haven't already.

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Freedom isn't free.

Yep. No problem what-so-ever.

[IMG][/IMG]

One could be completely ridiculous and never walk up stairs or drive over an overpass while carrying IWB or OWB.

My rules for pocket carry:

#1 - Always use a good pocket holster that completely covers the trigger.
#2 - Never carry anything except the holstered pistol in that pocket.
#3 - Make sure to clean & lube a pocket carried pistol every week.

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Only a cold warrior

I'm very confident that my Glock 42, 43, and or 26, that I daily carry in my pocket, every day of the year, will not give me Glock leg.

So do I.
Best pocket carry gun I have ever tried.
Most days I forget it's in there,all day.

It's scary how much people know the words but have no idea of the context, or only know the abbreviated (dumbed down) version.

The 'rules' are Safe Rules For Handling a Firearm.

A holstered gun is not being handled- it's holstered.
A gun in the safe if not being handled, it's in the safe.

As for me, I have come to despise the abbreviated version of these. I don't like the word 'destroy' because even during a self defensive use I don't want to destroy the antagonist; I want to stop the threat.

All guns are NOT always loaded either, but that's and argument for another day.

If any of you folks can find a better designed, more reliable "Pocket" carried defense weapon or better, more efficient method of carry, than the one I've carried carried for 23 years, the .32 L.W. Seecamp pistol, carried in my pocket, by it'self. If anyone finds a better one, or better method of carry I'll get one immediately, and start to carry it their way! Thanks.

Chubbo

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In a theoretical sense my pocket carried guns are not pointed at my leg. The barrels are close to my leg and would burn my leg if fired but it would take a certain position or two to get my leg or knee or foot into a direct muzzle "point". I do think that various forms of belt carry are much more likely to get body parts under the "point" of a muzzle.

But the real answer lies here:

When the gun in your pocket is being removed then it is being "handled" and THEN you need to focus on staying away from the trigger, etc.

But when you remove your gun from your pocket, or belt, unless you're a fanatical UNLOADER immediately then no matter where you place it the gun is pointed at something you do not want to destroy, be it clothing, a mirror, a dresser, something. But, if you HANDLED it correctly then when you put it down the gun is no longer being handled, it is "stored", etc.

Semantics. Love semantics.

True. BUT, all firearms should be TREATED/HANDLED as if they were loaded. Just one more important aspect of the safe handling of any firearm.

Indeed and the gun was handled to get it in any of those places.

It's not about what you want, it's about what will happen. Further, that you don't like the word is exactly the point. It's to open people's eyes to just what a gun is capable of doing. Nobody wants to destroy that thing the gun is pointed at, but they better be ready to; including the bad guy.

Exactly right, but, again, it's about the attitude toward how that gun is handled. Most state this rule as, "Treat every gun as though it were loaded." Jeff Cooper used to say that all guns are always loaded, but he was just trying to emphasize the point.

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Freedom isn't free.

Can’t a folded or automatic knife accidentally open in your pocket?
And can’t a person fall on a straight knife or the rock in their pocket causing catastrophic damage?
Hope the axles don’t crack on the new Ferrari or the wings fall off the new Gulstream 650ER or or or.

Buy quality
Know how to inspect and maintain
Learn to sew.
Always have your brain in gear.
An X frame snub might just require bigger pockets
than a J or DS.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS WOULD BE RULE #2 ON ANYONE'S LIST. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THIS ? ? ?

THE NRA LISTS, "ALWAYS KEEP THE GUN POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION", AS THEIR #1 RULE OF GUN SAFETY......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

If a gun is in an empty pocket the trigger is exposed.... to what?
Fast moving lint?
Uncontrollable fingers?
It can only point in four directions which ain’t that much different than holsters.

May as well study the innie bely button lint trap.

If you're saying that someone tries to holster the gun inside their pocket, then I agree. It would be the stupidest maneuver in the history of handgun holstering though. I expect that everyone who pocket-carries puts the gun into the holster, then puts the whole thing in their pocket; in which case the rule doesn't apply.

So then you agree with me that what most people are taught is an abbreviation (dumbing down) of the actual rules, and do not know the context of them.

Treat every gun as though it was loaded, until you have verified it is not. That's the whole rule. Your shortened version cannot be faithfully obeyed. Without personally knowing anyone in this forum I can tell you without any doubt in my mind that 99% or more DO NOT treat every gun as though it was loaded.

Great guns!!!
The PPK’s might get my vote as the best pocket carry pistol, safety wise, if you have a heart attack at your grandkids birthday party and the gun is exposed/handled by another unfamiliar with firearms..... or just hiking on mountain trails and a fall occurs.
That’s if your gun doesn’t have the warning message upgrade kit installed and powered by the laser’s battery.

Crawling around boats for decades my true pocket carry handguns have not had issues.
Holster or not, lint is an issue depending on fabric.
Plastic guns/parts attract lint more than my PPKs, Sig238 or my HS D101 gripless Derringer.

The LCP/polymers in a pocket holster or not are a lint magnet.
Just requires necessary care and checking the ammo’s OAL before reloading.
It’s amazing where lint will lodge.

A piece of undersize plastic rod in the bore isn't the deal breaker for me.

And you are badly missing the point. The major risk with the versa carry isn't after it's in the waist band, it is getting it there - pushing the pistol into the waist band with an unprotected trigger just waiting to catch a wad of shirt, etc

This guy shot himself trying to re-holster a striker fired pistol in an OWB holster when he managed to get the cord lock on a jacket drawstring inside the trigger guard. The risks are even greater with an IWB holster and they go through the roof with a versa carry.

police chief shoots himself in gun shop - Bing video

On this we are in complete agreement.

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Freedom isn't free.

Funny, when I was in the Marines and in the Nam, everyone had an M14 an M60 or a M79 grenade launcher locked and loaded and their was no "down range" to safely point them at, we also had hand grenades hanging off ourselves and I can't remember seeing anyone accidently shoot another Marine.

It's a matter of keeping your finger off the trigger, and not being a fool.

Of course civilians aren't Marines!

Sure, it’s the trigger on Glock pistols that could be snagged by a saggy or worn out pocket holster, plus the idea that getting my finger inside the trigger guard too early in an emergency deployment could cause an accident. We were issued the Glock 23 and I am well trained on that platform. I’m not suggesting I’m right, or what anyone else should do, it’s just not for me.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

With all you guys carrying these light-trigger automatics - When I go for my CC renewal class - I'm sitting in the back row.
This is what I carry for safety and reliability:

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I suspect your experience may not have been typical. There were NDs at that time, and there were NDs in Korea, WWII and WWI.

Military firearms are designed to reduce that potential, but 1) they can always invent a dumber private, and 2) sometimes they get it really wrong. The British Sten for example was notorious for firing if dropped, a design flaw made even worse with a bolt and sear that wore very quickly.

I also suspect things have gotten worse over the last 50 years. For example, I started shooting at about age 4, was shooting more of less independently at age 8 and was hunting small game on my own by about age 10. More importantly I grew up on a ranch where firearms were tools, and like any other tool you were taught how to use it safely.

Even the non ranch kids in the area, were still small town kids who were taught to use firearms from a young age, and gun ownership in urban areas was much higher than it is now.

Today's recruit is unlikely to have any prior experience with firearms and does not have years of safe gun handling experience. You may want to read this article from 2004. Scary stuff. 24 NDs resulting in 18 injuries and 4 deaths, compared to 24 deaths in combat during the same period of time. At least one of those was a Marine, shot in the head accidentally by another marine.

'Disturbing trend' seen in negligent discharges of weapons in Afghanistan - News - Stripes

Besides being a Marine I'm a retired Chicago Police Detective, and I personally know of at least two police officers that were shot and killed by other police officers, but this involved being off duty, lots of booze and playing grab *** with their weapons while being drunk. Seen a lot more coppers killed while driving drunk then having a ND pistol on them drunk.

After 31 years of being around daily with guys, off duty and on, working, eating, drinking and whatever. All of them carrying loaded pistols, sometimes two or three at a time, I would say despite the obvious risks, statistically they were pretty damn diligent. Or maybe just lucky...LOL!

After reading the proposed methods to safely, carry pocket guns, guns that I will hereafter refer to as a PG, and the suggested kinds to use, I just sat down and had a good laugh. As for the many people, of this forum, that are afraid to carry, a PG in a pocket, by itself, as it was intended to be carried, I would advise them not to carry a firearm. For those that worry about their finger touching their firearm's trigger, that's exactly where it's placed to make the firearm to go BANG! For people that want to carry their PG in an unneeded holster, It's already in one, your pocket. Putting the PG in more holsters, is akin to wearing multiple hats, or multiple pairs of undershorts. A holster on a PG is unneeded, and will slow down your draw. I really don't see the need for making the carry of a simple PG, so complex. Complete simplicity, and ease & speed of getting the PG into service has always been their sole purpose. Some people advocate Large, high powered, firearms, holding many rounds of ammo. To them I'd suggest staying at home. For those worrying about not being able to draw while sitting down, I'd suggest that they stand up to draw. Now, for the absolute safest carry method, for those people that are terrified to carry a PG, They might feel safe using a small two wheel, hand pulled, lockable cart, that their PG, and several thousand rounds of ammo for it, can be locked up in it, and safely towed to the sight of suspected conflict. If my rant seem excessively long, I noticed that one of our brothers, put forth twenty eight paragraphs of "Bumfooslement", for us to contemplate, so, I'll just "follow suit"
Chubbo

My EDC is a small revolver so it could be safely carried w/o a pocket holster, and I don’t use a holster in a jacket pocket b/c it’s small enough to hold the gun w/o it flopping around. The pocket holster keeps the gun properly oriented in trousers so if an emergency develops you can get a shooting grip right away, but to each his own.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

this is the pocket holster i like for the Body Guard. Their support is top notch, by the way. Vedder.

it does not print in my Wranglers.

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