Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Concealed Carry & Self Defense
o

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:00 PM
CB3's Avatar
CB3 CB3 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 2,383
Liked 2,954 Times in 1,054 Posts
Default Pocket Carry Rule 2

Doesn’t pocket carry violate Rule #2–Don’t point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy (your leg)?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:05 PM
snowman snowman is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rural NW Ohio
Posts: 3,387
Likes: 5,180
Liked 2,444 Times in 1,097 Posts
Default

It seems to me that nearly every method comes very close to doing that -IWB, Appendix, etc. Just have to use safe handling practices at all times, no?

Regards,
Andy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:10 PM
RobzGuns's Avatar
RobzGuns RobzGuns is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 1,668
Liked 2,344 Times in 1,110 Posts
Default

Quote:
Doesn’t pocket carry violate Rule #2–Don’t point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy (your leg)?
The same could be said for IWB carry (especially Appendix Carry), don't you think?

If you're pocket carrying with no pocket holster, possibly... But I believe Most of us pocket carry in a Pocket Holster and when reholstering, many remove the holster from the pocket, holster the pistol, then place the holstered pistol in their pocket.

Another rule for Pocket Carry, especially if one is not using a Pocket Holster, is not to have ANYTHING else in the same pocket as the pistol, so nothing gets bound up in the trigger guard that could trip the trigger.

Last edited by RobzGuns; 05-25-2018 at 11:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-26-2018, 01:58 AM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Banned
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,121
Likes: 2,661
Liked 4,324 Times in 1,793 Posts
Default

If you want to slavishly copy rules, you wouldn't carry.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2018, 04:25 AM
Imissedagain's Avatar
Imissedagain Imissedagain is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,443
Likes: 3,456
Liked 4,176 Times in 1,874 Posts
Default

The lint factor attraction to plastic vs steel handguns merits a congressional investigation of fabric manufacturing agendas... or lack of.
Pockets are holsters..... some designs are better than others.... innovation awaits.
True pocket carry vs Apparent pocket carry.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 05-26-2018, 06:19 AM
tg4360's Avatar
tg4360 tg4360 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 80
Likes: 1
Liked 118 Times in 44 Posts
Default

The rule means when HANDLING the firearm.

No one will ever be injured by a firearm that's just sitting and that includes storage in a proper holster.

Following is opinion:

One should never pocket carry without a proper holster that protects the trigger and ideally nothing else should ever be carried simultaneously in that pocket.

Additionally, I think most of us automatically attempt to not sweep ourselves or others when holstering but at times it's unavoidable.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-26-2018, 06:45 AM
7shooter 7shooter is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In the Cloud
Posts: 1,736
Likes: 2,252
Liked 1,872 Times in 582 Posts
Default

Pocket carry of a DAO only revolver is probably as safe as it gets.
__________________
I like Ike.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-26-2018, 08:31 AM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,400
Likes: 3,245
Liked 4,624 Times in 1,697 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tg4360 View Post
The rule means when HANDLING the firearm.

No one will ever be injured by a firearm that's just sitting and that includes storage in a proper holster.
THANK YOU!!!

If that rule literally meant "at all times", then no one could safely own a gun because it's ALWAYS pointed at something, and rarely is it something we want destroyed.
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 05-26-2018, 08:36 AM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 3,068
Liked 4,294 Times in 1,610 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7shooter View Post
Pocket carry of a DAO only revolver is probably as safe as it gets.
I'd agree that this is pretty safe. That said, I always pocket carry my snubbies in a pocket holster that keeps the muzzle down and the trigger covered.

Of course, (while everyone seems to love bashing them), the BG380 makes for a near foolproof pocket carry with combination of long DAO pull and its manual safety. I also use a pocket holster with these.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 05-26-2018, 08:43 AM
Struckat's Avatar
Struckat Struckat is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Illinois
Posts: 240
Likes: 802
Liked 510 Times in 155 Posts
Default

Yes, but I am very confident that my 649 will not give me Glock leg.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 05-26-2018, 09:34 AM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 1,377
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,414 Posts
Default

That's why I won't AIWB - even with my 638.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:15 AM
wingriderz wingriderz is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,111
Likes: 2,876
Liked 2,506 Times in 1,281 Posts
Default

As already stated by many but nonthing else ever in that pocket other than firearm. Also agree on holster too. My whole working days where always pocket carry . Really couldn't pull off any kind of other carry . To get caught would have been out of job . ( never caught )Since retired I have pretty much gone to larger calibers and I WB. (40. & 45.) Go figure
__________________
Spin The Wheel

Last edited by wingriderz; 05-26-2018 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 05-26-2018, 10:37 AM
Leatherhead23's Avatar
Leatherhead23 Leatherhead23 is offline
SWCA Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kennesaw, Georgia USA
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 2,290
Liked 4,029 Times in 638 Posts
Default

A gun isn't 'pointed' at anything unless it's in your hand.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:42 PM
mrmike7189's Avatar
mrmike7189 mrmike7189 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 736
Likes: 2,823
Liked 518 Times in 278 Posts
Thumbs up he BG380 is almost invisible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I'd agree that this is pretty safe. That said, I always pocket carry my snubbies in a pocket holster that keeps the muzzle down and the trigger covered.

Of course, (while everyone seems to love bashing them), the BG380 makes for a near foolproof pocket carry with combination of long DAO pull and its manual safety. I also use a pocket holster with these.
The only gun that I ever pocket carry is the Bodyguard. Even a J frame prints a lot in jeans , but the BG380 is almost invisible!
__________________
S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 05-26-2018, 11:34 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,075
Likes: 27,790
Liked 33,581 Times in 5,253 Posts
Default

My slavish adherence to Rule 1 (always loaded) and Rule 2 (pointing at things) means I low crawl past the counters in all gun stores. I get some funny looks, but at least I’m completely safe.
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

Last edited by sigp220.45; 05-26-2018 at 11:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:50 AM
CB3's Avatar
CB3 CB3 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 2,383
Liked 2,954 Times in 1,054 Posts
Default

Some great comments.

Shooting injuries involving concealed carry holsters are the result of negligent discharges. During such an event, if all the safety rules are followed, no one should get hurt.

With a good holster, i.e., one that covers the trigger and has a non-collapsible top, a shooter must have enough training, practice and confidence to get the gun into the holster without it discharging. There are many methods to do this, and they are adjustable to various skill levels and carry positions. But the fact remains, if you can’t get a gun into a holster safely, you need more training.

Once the gun is in the good holster, it is safe from firing. If from time to time it points toward something we don’t want to destroy, it is of relatively little concern. It’s not going to go off while in the holster. If you carry a handgun concealed, you are going to violate Rule #2 at some time.

When the time comes to remove the gun from the holster, it will not go off unless you pull the trigger. If you are not sufficiently trained and competent to apply trigger pressure at the correct time (Rule #3), perhaps you shouldn’t carry concealed until you are confident through training and practice that you won’t shoot yourself.

For some people, carry position decisions seem to focus on safety of where the gun is pointed when in the holster. This is not the priority. Safety is produced by the shooter’s competence in preventing the gun from firing when it is not supposed to. It is possible to holster a gun, yes even in the appendix position, without pointing it at a body part.

A man’s gotta know his limitations. If he doesn’t feel confident carrying in a certain position, then he shouldn’t. But really, the position should not be determinative. Can the carrier keep the trigger from being pulled until it is supposed to be? That skill/confidence applies to every carry position equally.

I get it. I would rather shoot myself along the outside of a leg or through my butt than into my femoral artery, but really, I would just rather not shoot myself at all. That is really the plan, and it is possible to accomplish. It takes some real training, dedicated and safe practice, and resultant confidence, no matter the carry position.

Unfortunately, many concealed carriers are not dedicated enough to their own safety and perhaps others to make the necessary effort. They think carrying in a certain position and hoping that an ND never occurs will get them through safely without real holster training and practice. And it probably will, based on statistical probability. But if that is the rationale, then why carry at all, since statistically, they will never need to draw their gun, right?
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 05-27-2018, 07:59 AM
tg4360's Avatar
tg4360 tg4360 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 80
Likes: 1
Liked 118 Times in 44 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I'd agree that this is pretty safe. That said, I always pocket carry my snubbies in a pocket holster that keeps the muzzle down and the trigger covered.

Of course, (while everyone seems to love bashing them), the BG380 makes for a near foolproof pocket carry with combination of long DAO pull and its manual safety. I also use a pocket holster with these.
I agree about the BG but I'm a belt and suspenders type when it comes to safety with firearms thus I rolled my own holster:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139981512-post23.html

There always has to be a compromise between safety and accessibility. For instance, I often carry at work in a Galco Jackass rig. Think about that. The firearm is under my armpit constantly pointing at persons and things I wouldn't want injured but it's perfectly safe.

That said, I've very often practiced not only the draw but getting the gun back in the holster which is NOT easy. But it's again a compromise to safety that allows carry of a service pistol with the lowest profile possible.

TG

Last edited by tg4360; 05-27-2018 at 08:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-27-2018, 08:19 AM
g8rb8 g8rb8 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 5,443
Liked 2,921 Times in 1,222 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
Doesn’t pocket carry violate Rule #2–Don’t point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy (your leg)?
I don't think the thigh is in much jeopardy except unless, as you are drawing, you angle the muzzle towards your thigh.

How about your foot? When I pocket carry and I am standing the muzzle is pointed towards my foot but when either sitting or standing the barrel is parallel with my thigh so a discharge from that angle doesn't seem likely to cause a devastating wound to the thigh but I could imagine a superficial wound or burn. The leg, i.e. the area between the knee and the ankle seems like it would be mostly out of harms way.
__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-27-2018, 08:55 AM
4011's Avatar
4011 4011 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 2,061
Likes: 967
Liked 2,108 Times in 855 Posts
Default

Only time I'm concerned is carrying my J frame in its upside down shoulder holster. Seems like a ND it would go into my armpit.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:37 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

First rule of pocket carry: Don't pocket carry.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:26 PM
SRT's Avatar
SRT SRT is offline
SWCA Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 417
Likes: 142
Liked 969 Times in 175 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
First rule of pocket carry: Don't pocket carry.
The first rule of pocket carry should read: Make sure you have a pocket.
Without a pocket, none of the other rules are applicable!
__________________
STAY ARMED, VIGILANT, SAFE!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:56 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,785
Likes: 4,208
Liked 15,135 Times in 4,144 Posts
Default

I pocket carried my Model 38 as a back-up w/o a holster (never heard of a pocket holster then) in the early ‘70s. As has been noted you’re going to point at something when carrying unless you use an OWB rig but there are some guns I won’t do that with. The older model LCP, along w/almost any J frame, is pretty safe IF a holster is used. It keeps the gun from flopping around inside a pocket and protects the trigger.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 05-27-2018, 04:10 PM
OLDSTER's Avatar
OLDSTER OLDSTER is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 10,146
Likes: 14,187
Liked 12,739 Times in 3,480 Posts
Default

I feel perfectly confident and comfortable carrying my M&P Bodyguard .380 in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster
__________________
John

Last edited by OLDSTER; 08-26-2018 at 06:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 05-27-2018, 04:26 PM
Rustyt1953's Avatar
Rustyt1953 Rustyt1953 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Posts: 44,122
Likes: 61,588
Liked 188,383 Times in 36,203 Posts
Default

I have pocket carried an LCP in a Sticky for many years.

I an completely comfortable with it and see no need to change.
__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:02 AM
Arizona Ghost Arizona Ghost is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 48
Likes: 16
Liked 64 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leatherhead23 View Post
A gun isn't 'pointed' at anything unless it's in your hand.
...until you sit down at a restaurant (or anywhere, really) and realize your 'pocket carry gun' is now pointing at the family at the next table...many times I've tried to figure the possible trajectory, then moved my leg a bit to 'aim' in a safe direction...and I try to sit down with the 'gun side' facing a wall, so no one can see any outline for a giveaway...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:08 AM
CB3's Avatar
CB3 CB3 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 2,383
Liked 2,954 Times in 1,054 Posts
Default

Ensconced in a proper holster that protects the gun from being fired reduces the need for anal observance of Rule #2. It is one of the primary reasons to carry concealed in a proper holster.

Learn to get the gun in and out of that holster safely and you will be obeying the rules you need to be obeying.

Last edited by CB3; 06-18-2018 at 11:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:11 AM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 2,003
Liked 1,653 Times in 809 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
I pocket carried my Model 38 as a back-up w/o a holster (never heard of a pocket holster then) in the early ‘70s. As has been noted you’re going to point at something when carrying unless you use an OWB rig but there are some guns I won’t do that with. The older model LCP, along w/almost any J frame, is pretty safe IF a holster is used. It keeps the gun from flopping around inside a pocket and protects the trigger.
We/I would have the dry cleaners/tailor sew a holster into the pocket of uniform pants. This consisted of canvas sewn into a holster shape. Since in the 70's most pocket guns were J frames I never heard of any reports of J frame leg. Most ND's back then seemed to stem from cops playing with their gun.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:28 AM
Ozark Marine Ozark Marine is offline
Banned
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 15,735
Liked 5,251 Times in 1,622 Posts
Default

Rules, rules and more rules about pocket carry.
In the summer I clip carry my LCP's, one in front pocket the other back pocket, no holsters, just Techna clips.

If people are so paranoid about AD's, carry a knife or fist size rock.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:32 AM
Arizona Ghost Arizona Ghost is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 48
Likes: 16
Liked 64 Times in 33 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozark Marine View Post
Rules, rules and more rules about pocket carry.
In the summer I clip carry my LCP's, one in front pocket the other back pocket, no holsters, just Techna clips.

If people are so paranoid about AD's, carry a knife or fist size rock.
Yea, well, there are safety rules for a reason...it's not 'paranoia' (typical Lib move, namecalling) it's following gun safety rules about where it's pointed. So you don't want anyone to be safe with their firearm. Got it.

Last edited by Arizona Ghost; 06-18-2018 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:38 AM
Ozark Marine Ozark Marine is offline
Banned
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 15,735
Liked 5,251 Times in 1,622 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Ghost View Post
It's not 'paranoia' (typical Lib move, namecalling) it's following gun safety rules about where it's pointed.
Calling me a Lib?
Now that's funny.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:09 AM
smithman smithman is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 455
Likes: 167
Liked 433 Times in 166 Posts
Default

If pocket holsters cause you concern, what must you think of anyone carrying a striker-fired pistol in a horizontal shoulder holster? That pistol is pointing at everything behind you at all times.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:56 AM
STCM(SW)'s Avatar
STCM(SW) STCM(SW) is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: E. Washington State
Posts: 5,476
Likes: 1,321
Liked 10,568 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

Pocket carry my M638 all the time....
__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:31 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
SWCA Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,908
Likes: 10,040
Liked 10,048 Times in 4,759 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tg4360 View Post
...For instance, I often carry at work in a Galco Jackass rig. Think about that. The firearm is under my armpit constantly pointing at persons and things I wouldn't want injured but it's perfectly safe.
Hmmm. Well, I won’t debate that concept, and I’m pretty sure you don’t want to either. We all have our own opinions, for whatever reasons, which is fine with me. All I will say is when I see someone wearing one of these things, I’m on my way out of there! I see them now and then in fast food restaurants around here, particularly in the warm-weather months of the year. I don’t care to stand behind or be around anyone with their loaded gun pointed at my chest or head, whether the gun is in a holster or not.

If I were King there wouldn’t be any horizontal shoulder holsters in public places.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #34  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:49 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Would deoend on your pocket I suppose. Fwiw, iwb at 3:30, uness you have a huge fat azz, not really pointed at anything directly as awib.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:16 PM
demkofour's Avatar
demkofour demkofour is online now
SWCA Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 997
Likes: 4,579
Liked 2,742 Times in 550 Posts
Default

I think we're getting a little to picky here regarding carrying a modern defensive/fighting pistol or revolver in the pocket! While working as a bicycle patrol officer, I was issued a BDU style uniform pant. I carried my 342Ti for quite sometime in a well designed Alessi pocket holster and I NEVER was concerned with violating Jeff Cooper's Rule #2.
I still often pocket carry the 342 and/or a Glock 42 or 43 in a properly designed Desantis or AHolster pocket holster, still without concern...
Here's a review of Col. Cooper's Rule #2 and his interpretation:

Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

All guns are always loaded - period!

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
__________________
Stay Safe...
jd SWCA #3276
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:22 PM
hostler hostler is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southcentral PA
Posts: 605
Likes: 173
Liked 968 Times in 367 Posts
Default

For a gun forum there are certainly a lot of people here who seem to think a gun can just "go off" by itself.
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 08-26-2018, 03:33 PM
bigggbbruce's Avatar
bigggbbruce bigggbbruce is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where this month?
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 264
Liked 4,215 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

I carry how I choose..and I won't come on here and tell you if it goes wrong..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 08-26-2018, 04:07 PM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,580
Likes: 1,377
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,414 Posts
Default

The light trigger pulls on modern, concealable, double-action, black semi-autos concerns me.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-26-2018, 04:27 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hostler View Post
For a gun forum there are certainly a lot of people here who seem to think a gun can just "go off" by itself.
Yes, and I'm one of them. Whether you choose to admit it or not, a gun can malfunction without intervention from a human. Sears fail, parts break, safeties malfunction, this is always a potential for any firearm. This is why the 4 rules are so important.

It's mostly true that a modern firearm, properly maintained, will not fire unless the trigger is pressed. I say mostly because there is always the potential for any mechanical device to fail or malfunction.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 08-26-2018, 06:10 PM
smithman 10's Avatar
smithman 10 smithman 10 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 749
Likes: 2,225
Liked 1,234 Times in 369 Posts
Default Pistols going off by themselves?

How about revolvers? Are they safer? Say a 442 in a pocket holster or a Model 60 with a bobbed hammer in the same holster.

Just asking. Because I carry one of those in a Mika pocket holster daily and have no plans to change that practice.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 08-26-2018, 06:18 PM
bigggbbruce's Avatar
bigggbbruce bigggbbruce is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where this month?
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 264
Liked 4,215 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
The light trigger pulls on modern, concealable, double-action, black semi-autos concerns me.
I think you actually mean striker fired..DA semi's are not light.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 08-26-2018, 06:24 PM
bigggbbruce's Avatar
bigggbbruce bigggbbruce is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where this month?
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 264
Liked 4,215 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Yes, and I'm one of them. Whether you choose to admit it or not, a gun can malfunction without intervention from a human. Sears fail, parts break, safeties malfunction, this is always a potential for any firearm. This is why the 4 rules are so important.

It's mostly true that a modern firearm, properly maintained, will not fire unless the trigger is pressed. I say mostly because there is always the potential for any mechanical device to fail or malfunction.
Can you say revolver.. short of a human error I see nothing you've noted as relivant to one. Except: "will not fire unless the trigger is pressed."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #43  
Old 08-26-2018, 07:07 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 30,918
Likes: 41,503
Liked 29,156 Times in 13,783 Posts
Default These few rules cover each other...

If you are semi violating rule #2, doesn't rule #3 cover it.
"Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Last edited by rwsmith; 08-26-2018 at 07:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-26-2018, 07:20 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
SWCA Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,908
Likes: 10,040
Liked 10,048 Times in 4,759 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
If you are semi violating rule #2, doesn't rule #3 cover it.
"Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
Not if you’re violating R2 and it’s pointed at me! At that point, I’m not interested in R3 and I’m leaving. I’ve seen enough.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-26-2018, 07:41 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,400
Likes: 3,245
Liked 4,624 Times in 1,697 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hostler View Post
For a gun forum there are certainly a lot of people here who seem to think a gun can just "go off" by itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Yes, and I'm one of them. Whether you choose to admit it or not, a gun can
malfunction without intervention from a human. Sears fail, parts break, safeties malfunction, this is always a potential for any firearm. This is why the 4 rules are so important.

It's mostly true that a modern firearm, properly maintained, will not fire unless the trigger is pressed. I say mostly because there is always the potential for any mechanical device to fail or malfunction.
Can you provide any actual instances of a gun just "going off" while at rest and the trigger having not been pulled?
__________________
Stay protected my friends.

Last edited by Protected One; 08-26-2018 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Added intial comment
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-26-2018, 08:39 PM
sigp220.45's Avatar
sigp220.45 sigp220.45 is offline
US Veteran
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,075
Likes: 27,790
Liked 33,581 Times in 5,253 Posts
Default

I used to carry my 220 at work in a Galco Miami Classic because I could throw on all my stuff at once - gun, two mags, cuffs, and badge. That backwards facing gaping muzzle caused some consternation, until I discovered an unbuttoned Hawaiian shirt would magically render it completely safe again.

The fish story is classified, but can be unclassified on a case by case basis. A case of Modelo.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 26923225-B0CC-4C2F-862F-E1CD128C4328.jpeg (77.4 KB, 56 views)
__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

Last edited by sigp220.45; 08-26-2018 at 09:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #47  
Old 08-26-2018, 08:43 PM
keith44spl's Avatar
keith44spl keith44spl is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Red River Valley
Posts: 7,690
Likes: 13,045
Liked 28,605 Times in 5,151 Posts
Default

I'd rather have a pistol in my pocket than an automatic knife.


.
__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #48  
Old 08-26-2018, 09:03 PM
marinevet marinevet is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: kansas
Posts: 568
Likes: 415
Liked 486 Times in 226 Posts
Default

I regularly carry a 442 in a Milt Sparks pocket holster......never even had a thought of an AD with it, for a couple of reasons. #1 the trigger pull on a 442, #2 it's in a holster with the trigger covered.........the gun will come out by it's self pretty easy, when you want to pull the holster, and the gun out at the same time, it takes a little effort.

Common sense plays a large part in carrying concealed in any manor.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 08-26-2018, 10:03 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Banned
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,121
Likes: 2,661
Liked 4,324 Times in 1,793 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
The light trigger pulls on modern, concealable, double-action, black semi-autos concerns me.
If the trigger pull on your striker-fired pistol is "light" or "short", your gun has been monkeyed with. The length and weight of a striker-fired pistol's pull is what makes it safe, but not the way you think. The trigger bar movement depresses the safety plunger, and moves the sear plate across the firing pin's engagement surface.

If the trigger is short and light, there is not enough tension or travel for either the safety plunger to work properly, or to create enough interference between the trigger bar and the firing pin.

Unless you literally just think that you, personally, need more weight and travel to keep from shooting yourself, and are confusing your personal preferences with a universal minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One
Can you provide any actual instances of a gun just "going off" while at rest and the trigger having not been pulled?
Numerous, but both of you are right.

Rast is correct in that you can either build a pistol that's an unsafe ***, or monkey with a perfectly good one until it goes off with a light tap. I mean, I can get crazy with a stone on a 1911 hammer, or adjust a G-Lock trigger to near-zero pre-travel, but I would be a retard in both situations and it's not the gun's fault for doing what I made it do.

You are correct in that modern designs have redundant layers of safety, some of them to the point that if said safety features were defeated, the pistol wouldn't fire anyway.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #50  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:09 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2 Pocket Carry Rule 2  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 14,710
Likes: 2,926
Liked 17,102 Times in 6,271 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Can you provide any actual instances of a gun just "going off" while at rest and the trigger having not been pulled?
Yes, but if you're looking for a link, I don't have one.

I'm at a gun range a lot and have seen just about every malfunction or stupid thing a person can do. Fortunately, I've never been present when anyone was shot.

More than once, I've seen a loaded gun set (yes, set, not slammed) on a bench and the gun fired. If you can pocket carry and not jiggle or bump the gun, you're lying or just not being realistic.

Trap is a shotgun game. You're only supposed to load the gun and close the action when it's your turn. Alas, a lot of shooters feel it's necessary to load and close the action as soon as they can. I wish it weren't so, but many times I've been on the line when a gun "just went off" and fired into the ground or shot the Trap house. In every case the offending shooter claimed they didn't touch the trigger. In some of those cases I believe it.

In one case I was able to disassemble the gun and found a piece of debris had gotten stuck to the sear. This changed the sear from a decent engagement to a hair engagement. This was a one-in-a-billion thing, but it did happen and the gun did fire on its own.

The point is, any mechanical device can fail. Yes, I've even seen a spoon fail.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My own carry rule Rastoff Concealed Carry & Self Defense 24 07-30-2013 11:28 PM
pocket carry cs9? B.O.F.H. Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 11 07-19-2013 10:26 PM
Anyone pocket carry their CS? cobra357 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 6 06-22-2013 11:42 AM
Does anyone carry 686 in pocket? 64tinc S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 19 02-19-2012 09:36 AM
Pocket carry with 442? C/O S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 41 09-12-2011 05:01 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)