Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Concealed Carry & Self Defense
o

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:30 AM
Steve K Steve K is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Southwest Virginia
Posts: 273
Likes: 348
Liked 291 Times in 104 Posts
Default Travelling from VA to ME

I'll be traveling from Central Virginia to Arcadia National Park in Maine then across to Cooperstown NY. I carry under LEOSA and VA resident and AZ non-resident permits. I'll be carrying a S&W Shield 9 with an eight round mag. I think I am covered, but has anyone had a problem with this part of the US. I've heard some states view LEOSA as a defense only. Also, with New York's magazine law is the eight round mag a violation?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:16 PM
Spokes Spokes is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: S.E.Florida
Posts: 351
Likes: 325
Liked 267 Times in 156 Posts
Default

Stay out of New Jersey if you use hollow points. Other than that esecially with LEOSA permit you will not have problems even in Maryland..
__________________
NRA Benefactor
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:03 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,579
Likes: 1,787
Liked 5,342 Times in 2,685 Posts
Default

You might want to check with the PDRNJ State Police or Attorney Generals Office on LEOSA and hollow point ammo (fine is/was $1000 per round-Hornaday Critical Duty isn't considered hollow point). The same for New York on the magazine thing/LEOSA. Allow lots of time for replies.

I'm afraid with many of the states you pass through the attitude will likely be to detain and let the prosecutor sort it out. Several years back I was trying to figure out how to lawfully attend a training school in Maryland. No one would put anything in writing and I finally decided the hassle/risk wasn't worth it.

The gent below reminded me about Mass&**^(*). You cannot leave a firearm unattended in the vehicle if you're passing through. Do your potty break before you enter the state and don't stop till you're back in the US. This is what I did enroute to New Hampshire a couple of times.

Last edited by WR Moore; 06-13-2018 at 06:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:55 PM
Execpro Execpro is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 649
Likes: 5,055
Liked 656 Times in 339 Posts
Default

Handgunlaw.us is a good site for cc info, but as stated above,you should contact State Police ect.in the states you plan to go through!
I plan to go to Maine from Ohio but the laws in NY and MASS are such that there is no way in H*** I’m taking a handgun!
Pepper Spray and a knife (which is technically illegal) are my traveling companions.

GOOD luck on your qwest and have a SAFE and enjoyable trip!

Last edited by Execpro; 06-13-2018 at 02:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:39 PM
Squarebutt Squarebutt is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: MA
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 2,379
Liked 1,945 Times in 854 Posts
Default

There have been cases where LEOSA was not honored in NY and NJ, and there was legal trouble for the traveling officers.
As for MA (where I live), if you lock the gun and ammo in hard boxes and throw a cover over it, you should be fine. I assume you'll be traveling up I 84 through CT to I 90 in MA and then up I 495 into NH and ME. Avoid the Boston area, as traffic is terrible. Keep to a reasonable speed and you shouldn't have any problems. Gun Owners Action League (GOAL.org) can answer questions.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:13 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,445
Likes: 14,494
Liked 9,263 Times in 3,702 Posts
Default

NJ has at some point taken the position that the LEOSA protections as to HP ammo don't apply there. That's utter drivel, but the smart answer is to avoid NJ. Quite possibly I would avoid MD, too. If I do any teaching in that area I'll like to restrict it to PA.

There was some litigation over the mag limits in NY, and IIRC, there is a case that has held that 10 round mags are good to go in ... the western and maybe southern districts of NY. You need to verify. I admit that the last time I was in NY I simply carried two revolvers to avoid the capacity issue, but a 1911 with a standard magazine would be workable.

The first issue is to stay off the radar screen.
__________________
NHI, 10-8.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:28 PM
smoothshooter smoothshooter is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 330
Liked 3,255 Times in 1,346 Posts
Default

The issues you mentioned are just " occupational hazards " of living in that part of the world.

I wouldn't put up with that ****, and have always made a point to live in a place where I don't have to.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:31 PM
NYlakesider's Avatar
NYlakesider NYlakesider is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern NY-AdirondackMts
Posts: 7,996
Likes: 12,850
Liked 13,379 Times in 5,042 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
NJ has at some point taken the position that the LEOSA protections as to HP ammo don't apply there. That's utter drivel, but the smart answer is to avoid NJ. Quite possibly I would avoid MD, too. If I do any teaching in that area I'll like to restrict it to PA.

There was some litigation over the mag limits in NY, and IIRC, there is a case that has held that 10 round mags are good to go in ... the western and maybe southern districts of NY. You need to verify. I admit that the last time I was in NY I simply carried two revolvers to avoid the capacity issue, but a 1911 with a standard magazine would be workable.

The first issue is to stay off the radar screen.
I try to keep on top of the gun things in the peoples republic of NY. The only thing I ever heard about Mag capacity was that someone got busted for having a 10 round mag and one in the chamber making the gun a 11 shooter. It was straightened out rather quickly and it was explained to the officer by a supervisor that that 10+1 is fine. FWIW I have head this a couple times, but cannot vouch for it!

As far as the Northern part of the state that is usually the best area for gun people. Most all Sheriffs are on the right side of gun issue and regularly tell our Governor Cuomo to shove it.

Even ultra liberal Albany County has a very pro gun Sheriff. (Craig Apple) ( liberal because of the city of Albany the rest of the county is much smarter)

The Northern part of the state is loaded with hunters and people that know calling a LEO might take serious time so are prepared legally to take care of business.
__________________
14 S&W Revs none with locks!
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:55 PM
Spokes Spokes is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: S.E.Florida
Posts: 351
Likes: 325
Liked 267 Times in 156 Posts
Default

New York City coppers will usually treat out of town coppers with respect.
New York City politicians stink!
__________________
NRA Benefactor
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:02 PM
Al W. Al W. is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: North East
Posts: 320
Likes: 294
Liked 144 Times in 93 Posts
Default

As I read it as a Jersey resident , you may be better off separating the ammo from the gun , boxing them separately and locking them in the trunk. Don't know if you have an out on the HP , but there is still a window of about 120 days left for the mag ban. Down from 15 to 10 now. But the compliance window is still open for a few months. Not very handgun friendly around here these days.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:05 PM
Shootist Shootist is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 48
Likes: 14
Liked 46 Times in 17 Posts
Default

A couple of comments:

LEOSA does not address the issue of magazine capacity. You must therefore check the laws of each state through which you will be traveling. Here's a Q&A published by the Fraternal Order of Police after the 2013 amendments. It addresses the hi-cap mag question. https://www.fop.net/legislative/issu...8/hr218faq.pdf. And here's another article from the Public Safety & Education website on the New York law: How many rounds, 7 or 10? | PS&Ed – Public Safety and Education

Hollow points may be carried in any state. The 2010 amendments to LEOSA clarified that "any ammunition not specifically prohibited by federal law" is legal to carry. This was directed at the New Jersey problem with hollow points, which are not prohibited by federal law. See 18 U.S.C. Section 926C(3)(1)(B) and this: S. Rept. 111-233 - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SAFETY ACT IMPROVEMENTS ACT OF 2010 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Happy traveling!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:33 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
US Veteran
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,330
Likes: 7,502
Liked 5,556 Times in 2,547 Posts
Default

I have heard rumors that NJ does not respect federal law. Easy state to avoid. Go through PA and CT and MA. MA state law is not at all friendly (need to be going to a match or something), but I have not heard any rumors that they disrespect either FOPA or LEOSA. It used to be true that an unattended firearm in the vehicle was illegal, but since 1998, only an unattended LOADED firearm has been illegal. It appears to me that that was written for MA Class B license holders (no such thing anymore), but that's not what the law says. Unloaded in the trunk, any possession legal under FOPA is legal under MA law, with the possible exception of "hi-cap" magazines. Same CT. Again, I have not heard that MA is ignoring federal law, but I have not monitored every MA arrest.
__________________
Formerly Model520Fan
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-14-2018, 01:46 PM
Bullet Bob's Avatar
Bullet Bob Bullet Bob is offline
US Veteran
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Western NC
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 2,948
Liked 6,543 Times in 1,821 Posts
Default

Acadia (no "r') Park is beautiful, enjoy.

Last edited by Bullet Bob; 06-14-2018 at 01:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:00 PM
jhnttrpp jhnttrpp is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sneads Ferry NC
Posts: 463
Likes: 575
Liked 509 Times in 195 Posts
Default

I can't see where it is worth the risk of my loss of personal freedom to enter any of those states. If they don't want me or my tourism dollars then I don't need them. I'm retired and get to choose.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:44 PM
Sixgun100 Sixgun100 is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 1,100
Liked 2,793 Times in 656 Posts
Default

I will be traveling from FL to my place in VT in a couple of weeks. My plan is to turn West in Virginia and take the inland route North to avoid those areas. I also carry under HR 218/LEOSA, but want to avoid any potential trouble. Good luck and safe travels!

Last edited by Sixgun100; 06-14-2018 at 03:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:01 AM
adwjc adwjc is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Adirondack foothills
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 10,961
Liked 1,045 Times in 474 Posts
Default

The new magazine limit statute in NJ exempts active and retired LEOs.

For accurate answers to your questions, check here:


Firearms Information | New Jersey State Police
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:47 PM
Tyree1867 Tyree1867 is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East of Albany, NY
Posts: 386
Likes: 2,630
Liked 255 Times in 129 Posts
Default

I'd stick with 81 North. You avoid DC traffic, the built up parts of MD & PA and you don't have to drive thru NJ at all. Pick up I 88 at Binhampton NY then take the NYS Thruway to I 90 & take that to the Mass Turnpike. This route also keeps you out of CT. What's not to like?

Last edited by Tyree1867; 06-22-2018 at 11:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:02 AM
federali's Avatar
federali federali is offline
Absent Comrade
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 3,082
Likes: 12,877
Liked 7,548 Times in 2,081 Posts
Default This is my Gun...

While you can always run into a trooper who awakened that morning on the wrong side of the bed, it all depends and how the local municipality came to know of your concealed handgun. Did you save a police officer or citizen from certain death or were you caught stone drunk, urinating in public with more than one gun showing?

I just moved from NY to NC and transported all eleven of my handguns through the People's Republic of NJ and MD. I stayed with the traffic and I did not call attention to myself. Police officers don't want to bust fellow officers, active or retired. So, don't put yourself in a situation where a local officer has no choice but to slap cuffs on you.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:27 AM
ladder13 ladder13 is online now
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,691
Likes: 57,544
Liked 52,812 Times in 16,465 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post

....... Do your potty break before you enter the state and don't stop till you're back in the US. This is what I did enroute to New Hampshire a couple of times.
It’s a long ride between VA and NH not to take a potty break. ��

Last edited by ladder13; 06-23-2018 at 03:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:09 PM
LenS LenS is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NH
Posts: 290
Likes: 537
Liked 177 Times in 91 Posts
Default

Let me try to clarify a few things wrt LEOSA for the OP!


I just went thru my annual LEOSA qualification and am a Mass State Police Certified LEOSA Instructor for Mass, plus I'm an expert on Mass gun laws, so when I was told some questionable info, I did some research.


- Due to the NY Safe Act and subsequent lawsuit (plus LEOSA not addressing mag capacity), retirees are restricted to 10 rd mags maximum in NY State. As I was also told by a friend (ret'd Capt NYPD), no NY cop is going to jack another cop up unless said cop acts like a total a-hole (or gets involved in a shooting).


- NYC laws prohibit carrying a lock-blade knife and LEOSA isn't an exemption.


- As pointed out above, NJ lost the battle and retirees can carry hollow-point ammo under LEOSA. That said, NJ is the one state that even under LEOSA, one should be super-cautious as they regularly ignore federal laws.


- Mass has a provision in MGLs that exempts all LEOs, visitors as well retirees from carry restrictions. For retirees possession of new large capacity magazines "may" be exempt as well, the legal wording is a bit shaky and the (now) former attorney for the Firearms Record Board admitted to me that the wording is a bit gray. That said, you won't find any record of anyone under LEOSA getting jacked up in Mass again unless said officer was acting like a real a-hole.


- Maine is a state that I researched in particular as my Wife and I spent 5 days in Acadia NP last year. Maine Law requires a Maine license in order to carry in Acadia and my research to date seems to indicate that LEOSA will NOT cover us. I've been maintaining my Maine license for this reason. Highways go thru Acadia, you can't avoid the park if you go to Bar Harbor (very nice area) either. A word of caution: Fed law that makes it legal for anyone to carry in NPs requires that the state specifically allows for it (Maine has that license restriction) and LEOSA doesn't supersede Federal laws . . . plus we can't carry in any Federal building within the park if it is a staffed building. There is supposed to be SIGNAGE wrt buildings at every building . . . we never saw a single sign anywhere (but that won't get us forgiveness) so I left it locked in the car at each building. I also never saw a single NP LE Ranger to talk to about it during our stay there. So caution is warranted.
__________________
MA Gun Law & NRA Instructor
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 07-06-2018, 11:42 AM
Steve K Steve K is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Southwest Virginia
Posts: 273
Likes: 348
Liked 291 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the input and great advise. I had a great trip and returned yesterday. There were no problems and I kept a seven round magazine in my Shield 9 while in the not so gun friendly states. I didn't carry while in Acadia NP; I left it in the truck.
Thanks again for your responses.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 07-06-2018, 12:25 PM
CH4's Avatar
CH4 CH4 is offline
Member
Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME Travelling from VA to ME  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,248
Likes: 17,882
Liked 23,919 Times in 6,782 Posts
Default

LEOSA does address HP ammo, but NOT magazine capacity. Unfortunately, being that LEOSA is an essentially an affirmative defense, you’re left up to officer discretion.

“Qualified officers may use LEOSA only as an affirmative defense if prosecuted. An affirmative defense requires that the finder of fact, the judge, must make a determination of whether the person raising the defense is eligible to do so. To be eligible, the judge must have determined that the person raising the defense is, in fact, a qualified officer under LEOSA and was carrying the required identification at the time of the alleged violation. This means that the act will not keep officers from being arrested. However, LEOSA will stand as a defense at a hearing as to the legality of the arrest if the arrestee is, in fact, a qualified officer with the requisite identification.”

Legal Digest: Off-Duty Officers and Firearms — LEB
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ammo Case for Travelling PHPistols Concealed Carry & Self Defense 16 02-24-2013 06:22 PM
Need guidance on travelling with a firearm nipster Concealed Carry & Self Defense 16 10-13-2012 05:53 PM
Travelling to Chicago Deanintemp Concealed Carry & Self Defense 4 04-19-2011 10:29 AM
Travelling: Will be in S.C. this week Smithhound The Lounge 2 11-07-2010 10:57 PM
Handgun for travelling/Camping Wyatt Burp The Lounge 25 04-17-2009 09:58 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:37 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)