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Old 06-13-2018, 11:30 AM
Steve K Steve K is offline
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Default Travelling from VA to ME

I'll be traveling from Central Virginia to Arcadia National Park in Maine then across to Cooperstown NY. I carry under LEOSA and VA resident and AZ non-resident permits. I'll be carrying a S&W Shield 9 with an eight round mag. I think I am covered, but has anyone had a problem with this part of the US. I've heard some states view LEOSA as a defense only. Also, with New York's magazine law is the eight round mag a violation?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:16 PM
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Stay out of New Jersey if you use hollow points. Other than that esecially with LEOSA permit you will not have problems even in Maryland..
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:03 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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You might want to check with the PDRNJ State Police or Attorney Generals Office on LEOSA and hollow point ammo (fine is/was $1000 per round-Hornaday Critical Duty isn't considered hollow point). The same for New York on the magazine thing/LEOSA. Allow lots of time for replies.

I'm afraid with many of the states you pass through the attitude will likely be to detain and let the prosecutor sort it out. Several years back I was trying to figure out how to lawfully attend a training school in Maryland. No one would put anything in writing and I finally decided the hassle/risk wasn't worth it.

The gent below reminded me about Mass&**^(*). You cannot leave a firearm unattended in the vehicle if you're passing through. Do your potty break before you enter the state and don't stop till you're back in the US. This is what I did enroute to New Hampshire a couple of times.

Last edited by WR Moore; 06-13-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:55 PM
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Handgunlaw.us is a good site for cc info, but as stated above,you should contact State Police ect.in the states you plan to go through!
I plan to go to Maine from Ohio but the laws in NY and MASS are such that there is no way in H*** I’m taking a handgun!
Pepper Spray and a knife (which is technically illegal) are my traveling companions.

GOOD luck on your qwest and have a SAFE and enjoyable trip!

Last edited by Execpro; 06-13-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:39 PM
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There have been cases where LEOSA was not honored in NY and NJ, and there was legal trouble for the traveling officers.
As for MA (where I live), if you lock the gun and ammo in hard boxes and throw a cover over it, you should be fine. I assume you'll be traveling up I 84 through CT to I 90 in MA and then up I 495 into NH and ME. Avoid the Boston area, as traffic is terrible. Keep to a reasonable speed and you shouldn't have any problems. Gun Owners Action League (GOAL.org) can answer questions.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:13 PM
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NJ has at some point taken the position that the LEOSA protections as to HP ammo don't apply there. That's utter drivel, but the smart answer is to avoid NJ. Quite possibly I would avoid MD, too. If I do any teaching in that area I'll like to restrict it to PA.

There was some litigation over the mag limits in NY, and IIRC, there is a case that has held that 10 round mags are good to go in ... the western and maybe southern districts of NY. You need to verify. I admit that the last time I was in NY I simply carried two revolvers to avoid the capacity issue, but a 1911 with a standard magazine would be workable.

The first issue is to stay off the radar screen.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:28 PM
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The issues you mentioned are just " occupational hazards " of living in that part of the world.

I wouldn't put up with that ****, and have always made a point to live in a place where I don't have to.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
NJ has at some point taken the position that the LEOSA protections as to HP ammo don't apply there. That's utter drivel, but the smart answer is to avoid NJ. Quite possibly I would avoid MD, too. If I do any teaching in that area I'll like to restrict it to PA.

There was some litigation over the mag limits in NY, and IIRC, there is a case that has held that 10 round mags are good to go in ... the western and maybe southern districts of NY. You need to verify. I admit that the last time I was in NY I simply carried two revolvers to avoid the capacity issue, but a 1911 with a standard magazine would be workable.

The first issue is to stay off the radar screen.
I try to keep on top of the gun things in the peoples republic of NY. The only thing I ever heard about Mag capacity was that someone got busted for having a 10 round mag and one in the chamber making the gun a 11 shooter. It was straightened out rather quickly and it was explained to the officer by a supervisor that that 10+1 is fine. FWIW I have head this a couple times, but cannot vouch for it!

As far as the Northern part of the state that is usually the best area for gun people. Most all Sheriffs are on the right side of gun issue and regularly tell our Governor Cuomo to shove it.

Even ultra liberal Albany County has a very pro gun Sheriff. (Craig Apple) ( liberal because of the city of Albany the rest of the county is much smarter)

The Northern part of the state is loaded with hunters and people that know calling a LEO might take serious time so are prepared legally to take care of business.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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New York City coppers will usually treat out of town coppers with respect.
New York City politicians stink!
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:02 PM
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As I read it as a Jersey resident , you may be better off separating the ammo from the gun , boxing them separately and locking them in the trunk. Don't know if you have an out on the HP , but there is still a window of about 120 days left for the mag ban. Down from 15 to 10 now. But the compliance window is still open for a few months. Not very handgun friendly around here these days.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:05 PM
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A couple of comments:

LEOSA does not address the issue of magazine capacity. You must therefore check the laws of each state through which you will be traveling. Here's a Q&A published by the Fraternal Order of Police after the 2013 amendments. It addresses the hi-cap mag question. https://www.fop.net/legislative/issu...8/hr218faq.pdf. And here's another article from the Public Safety & Education website on the New York law: How many rounds, 7 or 10? | PS&Ed – Public Safety and Education

Hollow points may be carried in any state. The 2010 amendments to LEOSA clarified that "any ammunition not specifically prohibited by federal law" is legal to carry. This was directed at the New Jersey problem with hollow points, which are not prohibited by federal law. See 18 U.S.C. Section 926C(3)(1)(B) and this: S. Rept. 111-233 - LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS SAFETY ACT IMPROVEMENTS ACT OF 2010 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Happy traveling!
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:33 PM
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I have heard rumors that NJ does not respect federal law. Easy state to avoid. Go through PA and CT and MA. MA state law is not at all friendly (need to be going to a match or something), but I have not heard any rumors that they disrespect either FOPA or LEOSA. It used to be true that an unattended firearm in the vehicle was illegal, but since 1998, only an unattended LOADED firearm has been illegal. It appears to me that that was written for MA Class B license holders (no such thing anymore), but that's not what the law says. Unloaded in the trunk, any possession legal under FOPA is legal under MA law, with the possible exception of "hi-cap" magazines. Same CT. Again, I have not heard that MA is ignoring federal law, but I have not monitored every MA arrest.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:46 PM
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Acadia (no "r') Park is beautiful, enjoy.

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Old 06-14-2018, 03:00 PM
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I can't see where it is worth the risk of my loss of personal freedom to enter any of those states. If they don't want me or my tourism dollars then I don't need them. I'm retired and get to choose.
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Old 06-14-2018, 03:44 PM
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I will be traveling from FL to my place in VT in a couple of weeks. My plan is to turn West in Virginia and take the inland route North to avoid those areas. I also carry under HR 218/LEOSA, but want to avoid any potential trouble. Good luck and safe travels!

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Old 06-15-2018, 12:01 AM
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The new magazine limit statute in NJ exempts active and retired LEOs.

For accurate answers to your questions, check here:


Firearms Information | New Jersey State Police
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:47 PM
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I'd stick with 81 North. You avoid DC traffic, the built up parts of MD & PA and you don't have to drive thru NJ at all. Pick up I 88 at Binhampton NY then take the NYS Thruway to I 90 & take that to the Mass Turnpike. This route also keeps you out of CT. What's not to like?

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Old 06-23-2018, 07:02 AM
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While you can always run into a trooper who awakened that morning on the wrong side of the bed, it all depends and how the local municipality came to know of your concealed handgun. Did you save a police officer or citizen from certain death or were you caught stone drunk, urinating in public with more than one gun showing?

I just moved from NY to NC and transported all eleven of my handguns through the People's Republic of NJ and MD. I stayed with the traffic and I did not call attention to myself. Police officers don't want to bust fellow officers, active or retired. So, don't put yourself in a situation where a local officer has no choice but to slap cuffs on you.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post

....... Do your potty break before you enter the state and don't stop till you're back in the US. This is what I did enroute to New Hampshire a couple of times.
It’s a long ride between VA and NH not to take a potty break. ��

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Old 06-23-2018, 07:09 PM
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Let me try to clarify a few things wrt LEOSA for the OP!


I just went thru my annual LEOSA qualification and am a Mass State Police Certified LEOSA Instructor for Mass, plus I'm an expert on Mass gun laws, so when I was told some questionable info, I did some research.


- Due to the NY Safe Act and subsequent lawsuit (plus LEOSA not addressing mag capacity), retirees are restricted to 10 rd mags maximum in NY State. As I was also told by a friend (ret'd Capt NYPD), no NY cop is going to jack another cop up unless said cop acts like a total a-hole (or gets involved in a shooting).


- NYC laws prohibit carrying a lock-blade knife and LEOSA isn't an exemption.


- As pointed out above, NJ lost the battle and retirees can carry hollow-point ammo under LEOSA. That said, NJ is the one state that even under LEOSA, one should be super-cautious as they regularly ignore federal laws.


- Mass has a provision in MGLs that exempts all LEOs, visitors as well retirees from carry restrictions. For retirees possession of new large capacity magazines "may" be exempt as well, the legal wording is a bit shaky and the (now) former attorney for the Firearms Record Board admitted to me that the wording is a bit gray. That said, you won't find any record of anyone under LEOSA getting jacked up in Mass again unless said officer was acting like a real a-hole.


- Maine is a state that I researched in particular as my Wife and I spent 5 days in Acadia NP last year. Maine Law requires a Maine license in order to carry in Acadia and my research to date seems to indicate that LEOSA will NOT cover us. I've been maintaining my Maine license for this reason. Highways go thru Acadia, you can't avoid the park if you go to Bar Harbor (very nice area) either. A word of caution: Fed law that makes it legal for anyone to carry in NPs requires that the state specifically allows for it (Maine has that license restriction) and LEOSA doesn't supersede Federal laws . . . plus we can't carry in any Federal building within the park if it is a staffed building. There is supposed to be SIGNAGE wrt buildings at every building . . . we never saw a single sign anywhere (but that won't get us forgiveness) so I left it locked in the car at each building. I also never saw a single NP LE Ranger to talk to about it during our stay there. So caution is warranted.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:42 AM
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Thanks for all the input and great advise. I had a great trip and returned yesterday. There were no problems and I kept a seven round magazine in my Shield 9 while in the not so gun friendly states. I didn't carry while in Acadia NP; I left it in the truck.
Thanks again for your responses.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:25 PM
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LEOSA does address HP ammo, but NOT magazine capacity. Unfortunately, being that LEOSA is an essentially an affirmative defense, you’re left up to officer discretion.

“Qualified officers may use LEOSA only as an affirmative defense if prosecuted. An affirmative defense requires that the finder of fact, the judge, must make a determination of whether the person raising the defense is eligible to do so. To be eligible, the judge must have determined that the person raising the defense is, in fact, a qualified officer under LEOSA and was carrying the required identification at the time of the alleged violation. This means that the act will not keep officers from being arrested. However, LEOSA will stand as a defense at a hearing as to the legality of the arrest if the arrestee is, in fact, a qualified officer with the requisite identification.”

Legal Digest: Off-Duty Officers and Firearms — LEB
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