This issuse could happen around us. My point is what would you do ? Here goes . You live rural aera. Your property is on fenced chain link. You have had neighbors pit bull type dogs loose that have chased folks in past.Fridays are trash days so you have to take cans to front road. Roads aren't paved. Let's say you have major health issuse and on massive blood thiners also a dog bite could be very bad news . Ok your takeing trash out your gate. The bad dog comes running down your fence line. Growling showing teeth. You say stay or stop loud voice . Dog keeps comeing. What do you do put a round off in ground to scare off dog or do you drop dog? My thing is what is cop gonna say either way?

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Spin The Wheel

Call the dog catcher.. Humane society.... Etc. Have the owners put on notice.

Laughing at oneself and with others is good for the Soul!

No "dog catcher" where I live. The Sherrif's Department does not respond to loose animal calls. The local Humane Society makes you bring the animal to them. I say use your best judgement. That might include putting them down, especially if they are on my property.

CYA by getting it on record with animal control, police & a heads up to the neighbor. Count on a soured relationship/retallitation if it comes to a dead dog.

"What do you do put a round off in ground to scare off dog or do you drop dog?"


Report EVERY single, aggressive dog act / incident to your local Animal Control Department. If there isn't a designated AC, then the local police. Document every call, date, time, name of person you spoke with, names of responders, etc. You need to establish a record of reported aggression. The "response" isn't the important issue. You documenting your call to authorities is very important.

I come across loose, aggressive dogs on my treks once in awhile. Along with your handgun, purchase and carry a good quality Pepper Spray, the same kind carried by police, postal workers, UPS, FedEx, etc. I've used it, it's very effective.

If the aggressive dog comes within range of the pepper spray, give him a good dose right in his face. The dog will be fine. Cold water rinse and time is the antidote. I doubt 'that' dog will come too close to you again.

If you believe you're about to be bitten, do what you have to do. I'm not a proponent of warning shots. You may want to get an opinion on that from a defense attorney in your local jurisdiction. Good Luck.

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Ad Astra Per Aspera

Talk to the neighbors: explain your situation and your concerns about the dog.

Get a can of bear spray (much easier to handle than the little pepper spray containers folks carry on keychains and much more effective).

You said rural

Old country saying
Shoot,shovel,shut up

Raise a few chickens for the eggs. Most rural areas permit shooting a dog that attacks livestock. You can also charge the dog owner for dead livestock. Note: the problem is not the dog but the dogs owner. free running dogs are dangerous to livestock, kids, and themselves. Otherwise, start a program to civilize the dog. A pocket full of treats and a little time talking softly to the dog. When the dog starts living with you, the actual owner may not even realize its not his dog any more.

Sometimes it's a case of dogs doing what dogs do. I hunted an old dairy farm property a while back. They had dogs, horses, bulls etc. A dog treat every time I showed up & they quickly learned the sound of MY truck & became happy to see me. Guessing you take the garbage out & check the mailbox fairly often??? A box of dog biscuits won't break the bank & the dog may become a security asset for you. I've seen a bunch of mail persons handing out treats. AS ALWAYS if your life is truly in danger, do what you must.

Around here, a cop isn't going to say a thing to you except "Good shooting" unless you endangered other folks while carrying out the shooting in a reckless manner. This county has a very strict leash law, and a loose dog misbehaving in any manner -- being aggressive, turning over trashcans, just trespassing on your property -- is fair game. Back when I worked at 911, one of our most frequent calls was, "My neighbor shot my dog!" A deputy would go out and check the situation, and I never knew one to take any action at all against a shooter -- although I knew of several who arrested irate dog owners threatening the person who did the shooting.

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Pisgah

Tough call and many good answers have been included. Check your county, state code first see your legal options. Send a letter to the dog owner, or have an attorney send a letter with a copy to the Sheriff. If the dog is on your property, your standing is much higher. If the dog is being aggressive maybe get a quick phone video. If you are injured, file a civil claim regardless of the outcome of the dog. You have the right of self defense...

All politics is local. The law where I live clearly says one thing: City discharge firearm is allowed if: "9. In self-defense or defense of another person against an animal attack if a reasonable person would believe that deadly physical force against the animal is immediately necessary and reasonable under the circumstances to protect oneself or the other person."

The problem is that in my town in Arizona, where this law and its exception 9 applies, a person can expect to spend a night in jail when his case clearly falls under this exception.

"Dogs again", this topic comes up for me regularly, 180 miles walking per month in nice single family residential neighborhoods. Sunday morning, July 10th, yet again. I have only one ankle to support a full one-half of my body for the rest of my life, and I will defend it to prevent any injury to it or to any proximal or distal portion of my body; no matter how unimportant anyone thinks that portion of my body is to them. By the way, when I phoned the police on Sunday morning to report the charging dog, the desk person could not hear me due to very strong wind. She repeated this three times while I was attempting to phone in my report. I blurted out "That is why I don't carry pepper spray!"

I don't have time to mess with (illegal?) warning shots. I don't have time to try a psychological stop. Humans and dogs regularly ignore sensory irritants to acquire the target.

Here is an analogy: Alcohol and tobacco are to dangerous drugs as dogs are to dangerous animals. Alcohol and tobacco are socially accepted dangerous drugs, and dogs are socially accepted dangerous animals. But, when I walk down the street, alcohol and tobacco do not run up to me with deadly intent.

This mornings news, dead baby, dog owner sings same old song: "He was always so nice and friendly with the baby. We don't know what could have gotten into him."

Cars, trucks, doorknobs, bed sheets, knives, guns, handkerchiefs, gasoline and drugs are all inanimate objects. They do not exhibit any unpredictable deadly behavior. Someones' at-large dog is on a much higher danger level. If it gets within 21 feet of me, too fast, too furious, focusing all of its obvious rage at me, when I have a very few tenths of a second left to stop the threat, I will.

Thanks for all the advice keep um coming. This dod has chased a grade school kid in past . The kid jumped in the inside of our fence toget away from him. I took the child home and called animal control. Its well doc on this dog.

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Spin The Wheel

Similar to mentioned above, if the neighbors won't do anything about it, I'd take the following path ...

Step 1 - Dog treats to get the dog used to you (not out of your hand - toss it).
Step 2 - Pepper/Bear spray.
Step 3 - Defend yourself.

Depending on the dog, you may need to go right to step 2 or step 3. Unfortunately, the dog problem is actually an owner problem.

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Vegan by proxy.

From reading your previous posts about your neighbors and their dogs, I certainly wouldn't shoot the dog. Why? Simple. You'll just be escalating the problem and if your neighbors are as whack-o as you say they are, they will probably retaliate in ways you would not appreciate.

What would the police say? After already receiving several of your calls previously about your interactions with your neighbors, they'll probably say, "It's that crazy Wingriderz again complaining about the neighbor's dog. Tell him we'll look into it. Hang up and let's go grab lunch."

Scorpion520AZ has probably suggested the best solution, in my opinion. Go buy a can of the heavy duty bear spray. Don't get the stuff that ladies carry on a key chain and keep in their purse. That'll just make 'em mad. You want the good stuff where one spray will cure the dog from coming at you once and for all. It costs about forty bucks for a good-sized can. When the dog starts coming at you, give it a big dose square in the face. Trust me. Next time it sees you, it'll probably give out a frantic yelp and run the other way. I've seen it happen.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Check your local laws first. In Texas according to texas health and safety code 822.05 a owner of a dog that makes a unprovoked attack/injures a person that is not on their property can be charged with criminal negligence and is upgraded to 3rd degree felony is the person suffers serious bodily harm.

In Texas it is defensible to prosecution if you feel that you're about to be attacked or if the attack is occuring.
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In your situation (and also with me) I would suggest carrying a small $10-$15 canister of pepper spray. You know, the little ones that go around your keychain or stick in your pocket. I had to mace a few feral dogs here in Texas that got too close for comfort while out on the hiking trail and it works wonderfully.

But when it comes to possibly losing blood, life, limb... choot 'em.
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Something to consider; When i see videos like this, This is what I'm going to show the judge if I end up getting charged. I don't want to end up in the hospital or having my family notified because I'm in ICU because I was more afraid of being charged then protecting myself against a pack of attacking dogs.

wfaa.com | Woman mauled by pack of pit bulls in South Dallas remains hospitalized

If you are on blood thinners your are risking serious injury,possible death with a dog bite. shoot the dog and don't take the risk of being bitten.

Thats my biggest issue me being on blood thinners for life at a higher level due to a mechanical heart valve.Another is infection for me would be very bad too.

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Spin The Wheel

Packer gave me an lol today lol. We are on a roll no real issuses with neighbor's in a long while. They got evicted and removed the real bad ones

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Spin The Wheel

Talk to the school bus driver. She has dispatched three pit bulls on our loop. They weren't mean dogs either, just bad at chasing school buses.

The school bus driver supposedly "dispatched" three dogs in the course of her duties as a bus driver?

Are you saying she killed them?

If this is true, exactly how did she "dispatch" them?

This sounds like baloney to me.

You're basically asking for advice on something that hasn't happened yet, but which might happen one of these days, correct? And you're asking advice on something which would probably turn into some sort of a legal issue for you.

You really need to be asking these questions of your local law enforcement agency, or an attorney who practices in Florida...instead of a bunch of guys on an Internet forum, only a couple of whom actually live in Florida. That's because it doesn't matter what the laws are in South Carolina, Texas, or wherever...and it doesn't matter what someone else did x-number of years ago or what they say they saw another someone else do in similar situations.

You're wasting your time asking here.

Is there a leash law where you are? If not, and the dog was on a public right-of-way you could maybe have a problem if you shot the dog. As noted by several others, REPORT aggressive off-leash dogs. Establish a track record.

That being said you have a legitimate medical issue where dog bites would be very bad for you. Does the dog have it's shots? Does it wear a collar with tags so you KNOW or at least reasonably suspect it's had its shots? Being able to articulate all this if push comes to shove is important.

A warning shot is usually unadvised and often illegal. It may delay or negate effective action. But dogs are very sensitive to noise, so in this case it might be effective if the dog is not too close. If he is charging, it might be too late for a warning and you need to make an effective shot.

Sometimes troublesome dogs disappear in the night.

I would speak to the county sheriff or the local LE in your area and explain both your condition and the circumstances. Offer to accompany them to the dog owner to explain the situation and what might result out of necessity if your life is put at risk by dogs not under control by the owner.

Once this is documented, should the dog make an aggressive approach, all bets are off. Better the dog than you.

You may need to consider moving, if that is a possibility, simply because elimination of the dog does not equate to elimination of the larger problem.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Talk to your neighbor, then the police. Shoot the dog if you are in fear for your safety. Don’t shoot the dog because you’re pissed your neighbors let it run free.

Yes, shoot the dog if you are in danger and an attack seems imminent. Do not fire warning shots, shoot the dog.

Co-worker of mine just had a very similar issue. His dogs are penned outside at night. At 4AM he hears a racket at the kennel and grabs a 12 gauge and flashlight to investigate, as a mountain lion has been seen cruising the neighborhood at night. He finds two large (100+ lbs.) mastiffs attempting to get through the chain link of his dog kennel to get at his smaller dogs. He yells at and throws rocks at the mastiffs. They turn their attention from his dogs to him and start heading his way growling and showing teeth. He fired two rounds of OO buck, one at each. The first mastiff ran off, the second was DRT.

Police arrive along with animal control. Animal control recognize the dead dog (of course without collar or tags) and are familiar with the very irresponsible owners. Yeah, the Officer has dealt with these dogs previously. Obviously, no charges against my buddy. Animal control visited the mastiffs owners to ID the dead one. It was their's, and they were fined $500 per dog. My buddy's dogs held their own against the mastiff's, but they were both injured and needed to be stitched up to the tune of $1000 total at the vet's office. Guessing he will have to sue the idiot mastiff owners in small claims.

Not much blood to trail on the mastiff that ran, but it is believed he was hit and he hasn't returned home. I'm thinking it ran off into the hills and dropped. "Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worm." Monday morning will be three weeks ago this happened.

They make ultrasonic dog repellents, I had one but wore it out after several droppings from the trike and about 5 years of use (they do work on most dogs). Also, I would only use a pepper spray such as HALT on a domestic animal, it is approved by the SPCA and I always have a can on the trike (available at most bicycle shops for about $10).

I would try talking to the neighbor, if you do have to go the gun route, I would recommend something not concealed, large with maybe a 410 game control load for the first round.

I had a problem with one neighbors dogs jumping on my fence while I mow, a short burst of HALT is all it took to keep the dogs off my fence, so far that burst has lasted several years. You don't have to directly spray the dog, I just put a screen between me and the animal, if they run into it they usually turn tail pretty quick.

Here's my hypothetical

The response I'm looking for is "shoot the dog" so I'm going to construct a scenario that closes absolutely every other option. Then I'm going to ask

"Should I shoot the dog?"

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Retired Career Security Guard

Among a certain demographic, the answer will always be "yes".

Call a criminal defense attorney that works your county instead of asking the internet for good ideas.

Shooting a dog is a big responsibility. Almost like shooting a person.

My neighbor's dog poops and digs in my yard. It growls at me, but it's a wiener dog. If it came at me I would boot it into tomorrow. I thought about shooting it with a paint ball gun so it could go home with a splotch.
It's owner is a teacher who should know better. People should know better, but they don't.

I'm a bicyclist. We used to like in a rural area where people let their dogs run free - against the law. I used Halt on them. It is what the mailman uses. The trick with Halt is to let the dog get real close then give them a good dose right in the kisser. You have to hold off shooting until "you can see the whites of their eyes." Wait until they are almost in contact distance. I've actually used it a good number of times and I can testify to it's effectiveness.

Good thread with some very good info - Thanks! I have had hesitation to walk in our area because of a potential dog threat. There haven’t been any issues but it only needs to happen once when it comes to pitbull’s. I had never considered bear spray until this thread - I found it on Amazon and I’m going to order at least a “live” can and maybe an inert/training can. I can legally carry a handgun, and still will, but the bear spray seems like a very good alternative to shots fired.

And $40 for a can of bear spray is a great alternative to paying $250 to some scheister lawyer!

Understand you as I'm on Coumadin!

At age 72 and had a couple cancer surgeries I'm not too good at hands on any more.

Did a lot of thinking and made my mind up about what I will or will not do under most situations. I used the word most because you can not figure everything out before hand some times.

What I will say here is understand the 21' rule and realize that for me covers more than a person with a knife. Of course dealing with much faster moving animals I would increase the 21' rule to something much longer.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Some Friendly advice: you need to update your crystal ball.

Seek legal advice by talking with local LEO and file a report. Document dog activity with photos, show to local LEO for further documentation. Ask the LEO to talk with neighbor, may help or hurt if you are present, the LEO will advise. Some states allow for a “Peace Bond” specifying your neighbor or agent (the dogs) to come within so may feet of you. Then legal charges could be brought against your neighbor, whiteness and photos would be best (further documentation).

As a last step shoot to protect yourself but expect ill will and vandalism from your sorry neighbor.

I don't have a crystal ball, nor am I clairvoyant. I don't see what crystal balls have to do with this, anyway. I asked you a serious question about something you posted in this thread.

Since you quoted me, but edited out my questions, I'll ask them again:

Will you answer the questions or not? If not, it'll still sound like baloney to me.

File a complaint first if there's time.
You need to start creating a paper trail.

Then apply the Golden Rule of dealing with troublesome dogs:

SHOOT
SHOVEL
AND SHUT UP

Definitely.

Wise counsel. I would suggest the smaller canisters of bear spray as they tend to put out a greater volume of product with a larger cone. You may not be super accurate and with the smaller-stream sprays there is a better chance you might miss.

If the aggressive dog puts you in immediate fear of bodily injury
or death, PUT rounds into him. You have a legal right to protect yourself. If it’s a Pit Bull, keep shooting until it’s down and out. I once witnessed a Pit take four rounds of .40 S&W before it turned and ran off to die. What will the cops say? Good shooting!

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STAY ARMED, VIGILANT, SAFE!

This is a good thread with a lot of good info. I am a dog owner (German Shepherds) which are scary to most folks in that they see them in war movies and police encounters. Responsible dog owners must exercise control of their animals at all times, no exceptions!
I moved to a remote area of the Florida Panhandle 13 years ago and bought a piece of property off the grid. This after my retirement from DOD in DC. The grid came to my front door and the zoning commission just declared our property a residential area. I am now surrounded by subdivisions and everybody has a dog! I went from protecting my Shepherds with inground shock collars to an 8 foot cattle wire, barbwire, wood horse fence covering 2 acres for a dog run with signs. This protects them and my neighbors. Loose dogs frequent the areas around the subdivisions. It is the dog owners responsibility to control his animals. But, dogs being dogs they do get out, which brings into play the second owners responsibility; training the dog to recall. Well trained dogs are less aggressive . My dogs are part of my security structure. As said above, this thread has a lot of good info!

It doesn't sound like baloney to me, but I have also dispatched several non aggressive dogs over my lifetime. I didn't try to, or do it intentionally. I must admit it made me ill, and the thought still haunts me. All of them were hit by my car, or truck.

The number of miles a bus driver drives, and the safety of the children comes first. I am only surprised that the number of dogs was only 3.

I think he's saying she ran them over

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Retired Career Security Guard

They are VERY intelligent, loyal, protective & good with kids. MY GUESS, the dog picked up on a bad vibe from the women on the porch, about you, OR you did not fit what the dog was accustomed to, & was protecting it's area.

The little rascals dog Petey was a pit. Pre WWll Pits were very popular because they were so good with kids. Dog fighting has given them a bad rap IMO. Plenty of other breeds have a potential to do harm as well.

Sounds like a perfect situation to blast the dog with a liberal dose of bear grade pepper spray. That should teach him to stay away from you (and/or the fence line) without fear that you will get dragged to court ( or lose your right to own a handgun). If that treatment fails (which I doubt), then you would be more justified to use more serious force having tried lesser.

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Dave

At the age and physical condition described, screwing around with lesser responses is probably not smart.

Caveats: I'm not in Florida and have no idea what the legal environment would be like. I'm a lawyer (not yours), and get paid to fight stupid stuff. I am a (civil) prosecutor with a lot of criminal experience and still do criminal stuff for my office to help out. Among my assignments is Sheriff's counsel, so I deal with dog problem law. I also research, write, teach and litigate use of force. I am also the guy who helps out or does the work when harsh things need to be done to anyone with whom we are in conflict. I don't even remotely GAF about the feelings or well-being of people who need corrective action - if they lose everything they have and have a miserable existence, they have no one to blame but themselves. (Go to youtube and see what Conan said was best in life.) However, we have dogs (all of whom have been 60-140 pounds, one of whom was truly violent and dangerous to strangers), I much prefer dogs to people, and generally value them higher overall. While I am not interested in harming dogs, I have had to. Never shot one, but did a PR24 spin technique to one that was IN THE AIR leaping toward me, and pepper sprayed a few. Pepper spray is NOT a sure thing at all; don't rely on it.

1) Make a complaint to LE every time there is anything you perceive as a risk. Every single time. Good detailed info. Make sure you make a record of making the complaint - each call, each officer contact, whatever it is. It helps with any possible enforcement action (I'll be doing some litigation of that nature at work this summer as I catch up on other work, and the CAD history and witness/complainant interviews are important. The owner is an irresponsible donkey, with a pack of 9 GSDs he allows to run loose, all of which have ... problems with strangers. All he needs to do is build a fence, but he is too much of a jerk to do so.) Make sure you include in the complaint the facts of your particular vulnerability.

2) Research Florida law and local ordinances. Quite often, the state law can have provisions that would force a resolution, but depending on where you are, such problems can be low priority.

3) Understand that the shooting will be a BFHD. Be prepared for negative feedback, and maybe bogus actions against you. Make sure you are comfortable deadly force as a reasonable response to potentially lethal force against you. Consider developing an attorney client relationship at a low level with a good lawyer. If the environment is such that a good lawyer can persuade cops and prosecutors to not be stupid, a local one is better. If you have to scorch earth, an out of towner is likely to be better because they don't care.

4) Breed generally does not matter - size and temperament does. Most of us can kick a nasty small dog for self-defense. Once you get to 50 pounds or so, it becomes more a problem; less weight for someone like you. A determined 75 pound dog will mess you up. Don't play stupid games in that case.

My wife had a problem with an irresponsible idiot's dog a few weeks ago at our other house. She was walking Ruby and a loose GSD came up and tried to start a fracas. My wife got stepped on, scratched, and maybe a modest bite (unknown which dog did what) as a consequence. The owner of the loose dog is responsible for all of that. The owner was such a buffoon that she was trying to call the dog off with treats instead of taking the urgent steps to impose physical control - to the extent that a neighbor had to stop mowing his law and intervene. I made sure LE was involved, and the cops there did a good job - photos of her injuries, etc. They had no problem at all when I said that had I been there, I would have shot the dog. Period. Warning shot? No. Hell no. Never. Not with a dog, not with a person. Even LE, stuck under the moronic Garner decision needs to give a warning only if feasible, and only with a fleeing felon. Personal defense requires no warning of which I am aware, and you won't have time for talking. If you can LOUDLY make commands to the dog and owner when it is farther away, good. However, warning shots are clownshoes, and almost never prudent. Period.

Am I unpleasant and mean sometimes? Yup, if others make that an appropriate response. Am I wrong? Nope. It is in fact unethical to be considerate of the well-being of ill-doers.

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NHI, 10-8.

On Plavix and Xeralto here. Carry a large can of bear spray and your choice of firearm. When using bear spray DO NOT let the animal get close.It is designed to be used in a sweeping motion creating a cloud the critter has to run through. It is MANY times more potent than any pepper spray. It casts the clod many feet out and has much greater range than pepper spray (CS). Firearm ready at the ready if by a minute chance it can continue its charge/attack (exremely unlikely). Pepper spray is designed (and effective) to be sprayed into the face and eyes. Bear spray creates a cloud that blinds instantly, burns the nasal passages making it almost impossible to breath and burns the throat, lips and any other mucous membrane it contacts. This stuff will turn a mother grizzly protecting it's young. A dog has no chance. Stay alert! A severe bite could be fatal!

document everything.
video that dogs aggressive behavior
speak to LE , document it & show the video
speak to animal control , document it & show the video
speaking to the neighbor , document it & show the video

If you are indeed forced to shoot the dog, be prepared w legal representation