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  #101  
Old 06-28-2018, 01:29 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is online now
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
... your post....
I'm not disagreeing with you so much as maybe coming from a different perspective.

I've been incredibly fortunate in terms of health. I'm in pretty good physical condition. I work out regularly. I'm not the guy that's in top condition in the over 60 crowd, but I suspect I'm above average. That's not unique, but from what I see, it's also not the norm. Bad knees, bad hips, bad backs, blown discs, blood thinners, early stage COPD, and brittle bones are the norm. Not too far further down that age funnel, heart problems and pacemakers are pretty common too. Some of it is from hard work and overuse. Some is from poor habits. Those things can make working on the mat nearly impossible.

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Self-defense is not just about having a gun.
I agree. I'd say it's more likely a BG will go hands on with an older person because they perceive them as more vulnerable.

Because I've been fortunate with my health, I have had the opportunity to take multiple force-on-force classes in the last few years. They've run the gambit from simunitions, to airsoft, to using blue guns on the mat and then live fire practice for things like retention shooting.

What I found is, even in reasonably good condition for my age, on the mat I'm not able to last long against 30'ish year old SWAT officers. I can project that out and say it would probably be similar for me against an athletic 20 year old criminal sociopath. That means I need to strike first and do something quickly to inflict a lot of pain to create enough separation to access my weapon.

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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Like I said before, if you can walk under your own power, we can get you to a point where you can effectively defend yourself.
I agree with that, but I think that's different than knocking around old guys with physical issues on the mat.

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Meet Chuck Sullivan:
...
If he can be this active at 86, any of us can get more physically fit.
Absolutely, but being fit isn't the same as wrestling on the mat with a bad hip or a pacemaker.

I do like the idea 7shooter had about fingers in nose to create pain.

Good discussion. I'll stop beating a dead horse.
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  #102  
Old 06-28-2018, 03:06 PM
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I will take the one I feel comfortable and familiar with
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  #103  
Old 06-28-2018, 05:51 PM
Dirty Harry Callahan Dirty Harry Callahan is offline
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Originally Posted by AimHigher View Post
IMO, the .380 is much better than nothing, but you could do better. It's not just the round, it the shot placement and your ability to hit you target under stress. I had a .380 semi-auto for a few years, but the more I learned (and saw), the less confidence I had in the .380 as an effective EDC. If my opponent has a gun and is trying to kill me, I don't want a .380. I want a heavy bullet at least 158 gr and preferably 180-230 gr. Consider either a .38 special +P or a compact .45 ACP. The bigger the hole (wound cavity), the more bleeding and the faster the target is incapacitated.
I appreciate your suggestions and concern, but for the time being, I'm satisfied with my current EDC. Perhaps someday I'll replace it with something more potent like .357, .40, or .45, but for right now I'll stick with .380 ACP.
If I want comparable performance to .38 Special +P, then I could buy some of the so-called .380 ACP +Ps by Buffalo Bore/Cor-Bon which boosts the performance to be more in line with .38 Special +P/9x18 Makarov. (Which are safe to fire from a PPK/S since the thing is built like a tank.)
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  #104  
Old 06-28-2018, 09:02 PM
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Ziggy2525,
I didn't think you were disagreeing with me. This is just a subject that is near to my hear so I talk about it. What we're writing here is not just for us, but many who might read this too.

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Absolutely, but being fit isn't the same as wrestling on the mat with a bad hip or a pacemaker.
Absolutely! I think that one reason most people avoid working/learning some empty hand skills is that they don't want to get down on the mat. As you know though, self-defense is far more than that. As I said before, if you're on the ground, things have already gone badly. Let's try to avoid going to the ground at all.

Then add bad joints, brittle bones, atrophied muscles, weak heart, etc., and you have a recipe for being a victim. Everyone with any kind of ailment like these needs to tailor their defensive technique to their ability. Maybe you don't need a cane, but carrying one isn't a bad idea. That's just one thought. However, don't stop there. Get some training with whatever tool you're carrying.


There is no dead horse here. We can't talk too much about self-defense and various techniques for same. The more we talk, the more scenarios we dream up, the better prepared we are for the unknown.
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  #105  
Old 06-28-2018, 09:42 PM
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I haven't actually carried a full size .357 Magnum in 20 years. I carry a revolving pistol, aka M642 about 90% of the time. A M638 or a 2" 64 the rest of the time. I do still have a couple of Glocks (19 & 26) I shoot regularly and carry very rarely. The 357 in a snubby is just too much.

Pet peeve: The term "Pistol" has been around longer than both revolvers and autos. A single shot flint lock is a pistol. The Colt's Dragoon of Civil War fame was commonly called a Horse Pistol. So, though we rarely call revolvers pistols, they are indeed pistols. Revolver Vs Auto pistol would make more sense. Rant over..
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  #106  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:08 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is online now
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...
There is no dead horse here. We can't talk too much about self-defense and various techniques for same. The more we talk, the more scenarios we dream up, the better prepared we are for the unknown.
OK, so here’s a specific example where I get frustrated with this. If I go to a “self defense” school and want to work on back work, they want to work on a reversal out from under a mount. That may work well for a 20 year old in a fist fight, not for a 60+ year old fighting for their life. But not because of the physical part lf it.

If a teen age thug is on top of a 60 year old or older person, pummeling them, that’s a deadly force attack. Deadly because of the danger from the pummeling, but also deadly because the BG likely has a second getting ready to kick you in the head. If I’m on the ground, on my back, in a deadly force attack, I don’t want to do a reversal. I want to draw and fire my pistol from from that bottom position. Not many self defense dojo’s practicing that. At least around here.
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  #107  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:44 PM
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If I’m on the ground, on my back, in a deadly force attack, I don’t want to do a reversal. I want to draw and fire my pistol from from that bottom position. Not many self defense dojo’s practicing that. At least around here.
Good scenario and definitely not straight out of left field; this could really happen.

Let's start from the top. I believe I said before that if you find yourself on the ground, something has already gone wrong in your defense technique. The ground is hard and we want to avoid it at all costs. If you came to my school with this scenario, we would spend 80% of the time talking about avoiding the ground. Not what you want to hear, but that really is the important part.

OK, but the 20% still happens, what then? Pulling the gun is a viable option, but not the best option. It worked for Zimmerman, but could easily have gone the other way. Because you're in a grappling situation, it will be very difficult to get to your gun. If it's small of back, it's out of the question. If it's on your hip, it's likely pinned by the assailants knees. The options available are dependent on your position. There are three basic positions that fall into the category I believe you're asking about:

The guard-

In this position you are on your back and the assailant is between your legs. This particular picture is showing a closed guard. The defender has his feet crossed. Most people without training will have an open guard meaning their feet are not crossed.

Half guard-

In this position you have one of the assailant's legs between your legs.

The mount-

Here the assailant is literally sitting on top of you. He is sitting on your hips or stomach.

If you have him in the guard or half guard, you may have access to your gun. If you're mounted, it's very unlikely that you can even get to your gun. If you can get to your gun, is that the best idea? Maybe, but it presents some serious problems. Because you're locked in battle here, it's difficult to control the gun. You could shoot the bad guy, you could shoot yourself and the worst would be for him to get the gun.

What we teach in my school is not a reversal, but escape. I want this guy off and me back on my feet as soon as possible. Do everything you can to create space. Then get the gun out.

There is a problem with carrying any kind of tool (weapon), we focus too much on that tool. When people carry a gun, most of the time, that's their first option when it should be the last. Whenever there is a tool involved, the user's concentration is on the tool so much, they forget that they have hands and feet they can also use. If we spent even a little time working on using the tools God gave us, it would open a world of options.

I didn't miss what you asked. You want instruction on how to get your gun out when on the ground. The reason this isn't taught in any martial arts school is because they're teaching you to use the most readily available tools, the ones you're born with, first.

This is why I talk about empty hand defense so much and why I never use the word "weapon" when describing my gun; I am the weapon. The gun/baton/knife/flashlight is just a tool, an extension of me. It's a mindset. By thinking of yourself as the weapon, you come to the realization that you're never without some kind of defense.

None of what I've said here directly answers your question. I'm sorry, but this scenario is too difficult for me to answer by typing. I don't know where you live, but you're welcome to come to our school and we can work on exactly this. Alas, I'll bet you live in another state. Even so, if you want to make the trip, I'll make it worthwhile.
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  #108  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
. If I’m on the ground, on my back, in a deadly force attack, I don’t want to do a reversal. I want to draw and fire my pistol from from that bottom position. Not many self defense dojo’s practicing that. At least around here.
I'm pretty sure that is called the "Zimmerman" move.
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  #109  
Old 06-29-2018, 06:54 PM
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Thumbs down HUH?

Why does this thread FAIL to update? Seven times I come here and the SAME thread count pops ups up, and I have to re-read all the same posts, even though they are marked "new".

Please fix. Thank you.
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  #110  
Old 06-30-2018, 03:42 PM
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Interesting. You're the first I've heard of that has had more issues, of any kind, than semi-autos. I have a few revolvers and none have ever failed in any way. Can't say that for the semi-autos. Of course I don't have as many rounds through the revolvers. Maybe I should step up my revolver game?
My Beretta PX 4 Sub Compact has over 3600 rounds thru it with out any misfires it has gone bang every time I've pulled the trigger and the bullet has hit the target !! As have the following ..

My S&W Compact in 40 has over 2000 thru it with out a misfire

Sig P229 Legion in 40 just 800 and no misfires ..

Sig P238 490 rounds with out a misfire ..

Quality autos seem to have much less problems then cheaper manufactures if properly lubed and normal maintenance is done per round counts ..
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  #111  
Old 07-10-2018, 03:39 PM
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Many thanks to evryone for their responses to my post. I am no novice nor am I "the Pro From Dover", I'm like many who enjoy shooting & I'm not a collector. Your depth of experience & knowledge is refreshing & there are quite a few super responses that we, the non pros, appreciate.
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  #112  
Old 07-10-2018, 03:47 PM
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The average age of guns that may be in my pocket exceeds the average age of the Mall Ninjas contributing to this thread. Additionally, more than one of them have actually been drawn and fired at assailants. No one, save for the assailants, has ever been harmed, robbed, struck, stuck, shot, etc.

I'll continue to rely on .38 special snubs - works for me.

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  #113  
Old 07-10-2018, 06:32 PM
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Drove halfway across the state today because my wife has a medical procedure tomorrow. Wore my 4 inch, pinned and recessed, S&W Model 65-1 under my Hawaiian shirt strongside and my Model 642-2 weakside. My 2 inch Model 12-2 rode in the armrest in the event my wife needed it.

After retiring from the Army, I carried a CZ-75 for a while, then a Glock 23. Loved the CZ, the Glock was "meh." My wife can't get past the ejecting brass in her line of sight from semiautos. I started carrying nothing but revolvers and haven't looked back. My officers almost all carry Glock 22s, but they have yet to shoot a higher score than the old man with his wheel guns. (I carry a 4 inch S&W 686-6 on duty until I retire next month.)

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  #114  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:15 AM
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“The Revolver
No Buttons to punch, No Levers to Switch, Nothing to forget.
All you gotta know is:
Load the Son of a Bixxh”

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  #115  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:52 AM
Kframerbluvr Kframerbluvr is offline
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If weight is not really much of a consideration, carrying a combo of something like a Glock 19 and an hammerless snub revolver would provide effective tools for an extremely broad range of possible defense scenarios. Most would consider the G19 the primary and the snub the backup, but I would look at the snub as the main weapon to have immediately accessible due to its efficiency in reactive close-quarter situations.

However, I just don't see that combo being necessary for civilian self-defense and carrying relatively heavy gear takes its toll over the course of years.

In terms of lighter guns, I'm just not a huge fan of small autoloaders since most are pretty finicky and their capacity is usually not all that much greater than the revolver to make it a sensible consideration to trade-away the reliability, safety and ECQ advantages of revolver.

My carry choice is a lightweight, small frame wheelgun.
This is my philosophy as well. I carry an issued Glock 23 with one spare mag on the belt and a 442 with one speed strip in the strong side hip pocket.
Either can be primary depending on the circumstances.
With my hand already properly gripping the 442 still in the pocket , I can draw and fire and usually hit a sheet of typing paper at fifteen feet in two seconds. Working on improving my first shot accuracy to hit the black of a B-8 target in the same time restriction.
Our training Lieutenant was amazed by how fast a snub .38 can be drawn and fired from the pants pocket as described above.
When I ever decide to retire, I suspect a snub .38 will be an everyday companion.
I have tried numerous small auto pistols and they, in my view, are holster guns and not suited for pocket carry. A small snag free revolver is nearly perfect for that job.

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  #116  
Old 07-22-2018, 08:53 PM
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These days i'm more of a revolver person,I do carry pistols but not as much as the revolvers.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:03 PM
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I don't know! Just shot 200 rounds in my Cz! It was flawless!
Just shot 250 rounds in my kframe. Cylinder got so hot I could barely touch it and turn knob on speed loader! And it got too hot to touch period.
+1 for the auto


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  #118  
Old 07-22-2018, 09:47 PM
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I don't know! Just shot 200 rounds in my Cz! It was flawless!
Just shot 250 rounds in my kframe. Cylinder got so hot I could barely touch it and turn knob on speed loader! And it got too hot to touch period.
+1 for the auto


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Lesson here is, don't carry a revolver if you think you may need 250 rounds to defend yourself.
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:35 PM
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As much as I love revolvers, For concealed carry I chose the Glock.
Me too. I love my revolvers and carry my 686 sometimes, but the Glock gets the job 99% of the time.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:40 PM
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I’m in my early 70s and walk w/a cane so I know how much of an inviting target I am. Additional physical problems prevent me from taking a self defense course, plus my police training was a looooong time ago. My 340PD is pocket carried, I rely on making sure I’m aware of my surroundings all the time AND I avoid going to bad places or looking for trouble.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:43 PM
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Lesson here is, don't carry a revolver if you think you may need 250 rounds to defend yourself.
I carry two revolvers so one can cool down while I'm shooting the other one. Revolver vs. Pistol

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Old 07-25-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Sight View Post
“The Revolver
No Buttons to punch, No Levers to Switch, Nothing to forget.
All you gotta know is:
Load the Son of a Bixxh”
Add to the above: no failures to feed, no failures to eject.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:05 PM
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As Bill Jordan said, Speed and Power are fine but Accuracy is final and skill -and will power-are paramount.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:28 PM
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I just read all 3 pages(twice) and found this an informative and interesting thread.I would enjoy more posts on this topic and hope that someone will contribute more useful information and their ideas.Where I live,I CCW everyday,but I am in San Francisco approx. 3 months a year and there I do not.Mind set and awareness of your surroundings is one of the best defenses to learn.
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:31 PM
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Add to the above: no failures to feed, no failures to eject.
Unless you have to reload. I've seen others and even had trouble myself ejecting spent brass. Then reloading is almost universally slower than a semi-auto.

There will always be quirks or issues with any type of mechanical device. The revolver is great, just not perfect. Same goes for any semi-auto. They both have their benefits and detractors.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:08 PM
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I hate how well I can shoot a g19. Absolutely hate it. I still don't own one. And I put 50 rounds in a range gun rental(g19) - and shot a hell of alot better than my sig p226 with 7,000 rounds in it.

Auto for SD. And I'm a revolver guy!

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Old 07-25-2018, 05:50 PM
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I would love to see the statistics on how often a citizen (and even police for that matter) have needed to reload a revolver in a self defense situation....particularly a quick reload.

If you want to play the odds to keep yourself safe, instead of worrying about how fast you can reload your gun, start carrying a vial of snake anti-venom in case you are bitten by a viper at the supermarket.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
I would love to see the statistics on how often a citizen (and even police for that matter) have needed to reload a revolver in a self defense situation....particularly a quick reload.
If self-defense were only about statistical probability, why would anyone ever carry a gun or buy a lottery ticket? Yet, people carry and are saved because they carry. People win the lottery too.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
Do you shoot other striker-fired guns such as the SD9 or M&P as well?
Did you mean XD9? I had a xd40 tac and put a 9mm stormlake? Conversion barrel. It was an incredible gun. I sold it, in the "great caliber consolidation of 2011?" I don't know how many of you went through those. Just get rid of a whole caliber. Pretty dumb huh. Now I'm considering a CZ in a 40 or a 1911 in a 40. 40s were great. Ugh! I miss them.


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  #130  
Old 07-25-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
Did you mean XD9? I had a xd40 tac and put a 9mm stormlake? Conversion barrel. It was an incredible gun. I sold it, in the "great caliber consolidation of 2011?" I don't know how many of you went through those. Just get rid of a whole caliber. Pretty dumb huh. Now I'm considering a CZ in a 40 or a 1911 in a 40. 40s were great. Ugh! I miss them.


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Yeah I was wanting XD, Dang typing fad, like smokeless powder! LOL

I am very partial to 357sig and would like an M&P 2.0 compact or even one of the SD-9VE in the caliber.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:44 PM
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And for the record:
It did bug me that I couldn't shoot 200 rounds(250 total;pushing it, burning my fingers) without the K frame overheating! Sure, I wouldn't choose 250 rounds to defend myself on a revolver- but IF YOU HAVE TO SHOOT 200 ROUNDS OR MORE ON A K FRAME FOR ANY OTHER REASON, it would definitely get my thumbs down and the full nod to a semiautomatic or a larger frame revolver!
Maybe I ask too much of the K frame....

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Old 07-25-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by medic15al View Post
Yeah I was wanting XD, Dang typing fad, like smokeless powder! LOL

I am very partial to 357sig and would like an M&P 2.0 compact or even one of the SD-9VE in the caliber.
My XD was a great accurate gun. I sometimes look at them now and want to buy it again. I shot 9 and 40 in mine. I think I might've shot the glock about the same- and the glock being a range gun had many thousands in it probably and was better than I imagined.
The only thing I did with my XD was the drop in barrel down to a 9 and two 9mm mags.
I really regret selling it. But everytime I want to buy one again- I end up with another revolver.


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  #133  
Old 07-25-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Unless you have to reload. I've seen others and even had trouble myself ejecting spent brass. Then reloading is almost universally slower than a semi-auto.
In an up close, defensive encounter, you will most likely not need to eject spent brass or re-load...5 or 6 shots should be enough, as stats show.
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  #134  
Old 07-25-2018, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
My XD was a great accurate gun. I sometimes look at them now and want to buy it again. I shot 9 and 40 in mine. I think I might've shot the glock about the same- and the glock being a range gun had many thousands in it probably and was better than I imagined.
The only thing I did with my XD was the drop in barrel down to a 9 and two 9mm mags.
I really regret selling it. But everytime I want to buy one again- I end up with another revolver.


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I had the XD-Tactical in 9mm and .45 ACP and loved both. They were very accurate and reliable. The 45 did bump me a tad uncomfortably it the web from the flat tang, tho.

Went to work for a county agency and had 3 month to replace my XD-Tactical 9 with an approved weapon and at that time had to sell it to do so.

I still prefer the XD original to the newer designs.
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  #135  
Old 07-25-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by junglefighter View Post
I just read all 3 pages(twice) and found this an informative and interesting thread.I would enjoy more posts on this topic and hope that someone will contribute more useful information and their ideas.
This quote is why I always cringe when a topic is posted and it is noted by someone "this has been rehashed over and over", "there are so many threads on this topic" or "learn to use the search function". Jeez. There is nothing wrong with these things being re-hashed. New perspectives arise. Old posters make new points. The OP has all information in one spot he can easily retrieve. I could go on and on. Oh, best of all, you also avoid the old standby "geez, necro-thread, you do realize this thread is x years old".

This is a good thread with many more good comments than moronic ones. That's also a plus.
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  #136  
Old 07-25-2018, 11:14 PM
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Easy choice, the lightest gun easy to conceal that carries the most rounds.
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday 1950 View Post
I posted this question on a different forum & would like to include
the S&W forum in this question.

What would you want to carry for SD, a 357 in magnum revolver(6 or 7 shot) or a Glock 19 you can sub any pistol & any 357 in magnum for this discussion.

At this present time I'm going between my new & improved 686 + revolver & my G19 gen 4 &/or my G43. My G19 is by far an easier pistol to shoot with accuracy that my G43.

However, my 686 + with my new trigger job is now my first choice to carry 24/7
even though its a monster to carry. My feelings are quality always trumps quantity no matter what your weapon de jour is.

As always, all responses are welcome.

I own a 4" 686 but it would not be my first choice in a carry gun although it is more than capable of "getting the job done". Main reason would be the 357 magnum. Although I am capable of shooting it accurately at the range, I have my earmuffs on and the targets aren't shooting back at me. If I did carry my 686, I'd load up with 38 special +P's simply because I can shoot 38 special faster & more accurately than 357 magnum. But if I'm going to use 38 special +P, then I might as well carry my 4" model 10 HB. But it's 98° outside in south Texas today, so I might as well carry my 642 snub nose 38 special. Which by the way, is my EDC.

The OP admitted that his G19 is easier to shoot and is more accurate. I owned/carried a G23 which is essentially the same dimensions/weight as the 19 except it's in 40s&w. The Glock 19 is what I would carry given the choices above.

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  #138  
Old 08-10-2018, 04:40 PM
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The variables in ones life should dictate what you should carry ..

Where you live, what the main crime in your area is .. if there is gang violence where events happen with more then one Perp ..or more single robber type of crimes .. Living in a small town under 20-30 thousand with little to no crime .. shop lifting probably the one most likely .. Across the river there have been I think 15 murders so far this year and the crime rates there are all higher then the national averages ..

Myself I feel more comfortable with an auto with 10 or more rounds available .. but that is because of the crime not in the town I live in but all the towns around me .. which I end up having to go to to do certain things .. *Dr's etc ..
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  #139  
Old 08-10-2018, 05:27 PM
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While I am not a big fan of the Glock 19's, when you compare the size, weight, capacity, reliability and simplicity....it is hard to beat for concealed carry, especially when compared with a 686.
I have a 686+ with a 3" barrel that I purchased for possible CCW, but it resides strictly in the safe because of its weight, bulk and cumbersome profile.
I usually conceal carry other pistols, but I would have no reservation carrying my Glock 19 gen 4......
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  #140  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:25 AM
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I recently replaced my Springfield Armory Range Officer Champion 1911 with an M&P Shield 9mm as my concealed carry. Sometimes I'll carry my J-frame .357. Between the two, I prefer carrying the 9mm Shield. The J-frame is a great little powerhouse, but only holds five rounds. I carry the seven round mag in my Shield with the spare eight round mag in my pocket. Plus, the Shield is so much more streamlined for conceal carry.
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  #141  
Old 08-12-2018, 01:33 PM
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Yesterday my 686 jammed on me. I couldn't even open the cylinder- trigger wouldn't pull all the way back. So, I gave up trying to fiddle with it and gave it to the RO. He took it to the back and did something to it. Walked back, handed me my revolver and all the shells.
I think I shot maybe 4 cylinders out of it , to make sure it was ok....
When I was leaving, I was talking to that same RO. And asked him about the revolver. I said to him, and there are still people that say that revolvers are more reliable than autos huh! As he was carrying a glock by his side. He said he didnt have to work there long enough to know that revolvers aren't as truly flawless as some people believe.
It didn't take long for me to know this as a fact. Revolvers have failed me truly in almost every way. I sure do enjoy shooting them .
Anyone who believes otherwise, has not shot Revolvers long enough.

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  #142  
Old 08-12-2018, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
...and there are still people that say that revolvers are more reliable than autos huh!
To every story there will be at least one who will offer up a report like this. The fact remains, revolvers are more reliable than semi-autos. This is not in question even a little bit, it's just the simple truth.

No one has said that revolvers are fail proof. Every mechanical device has the potential for failure. Even spoons have failed. That doesn't negate the fact that revolvers are more reliable.

There are advantages to the semi-auto that, for most people, outweigh the disadvantages. But to say that a semi-auto is more reliable is ridiculous and not looking at the real truth.
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  #143  
Old 08-12-2018, 11:36 PM
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I think everyone here(yes I said everyone) can agree that both revolvers and most modern semi autos offer an acceptable level of reliability under most circumstances. Obviously at the range reliability differences are so similar to be practically the same, At dart throwing distance, not an issue. At bad breath distance is when the circumstances turn weird or unusual and the revolver starts to excel. Pushed into the belly of the bad guy, inside of a pocket, weak hand, sideways or upside down, bad guy has a hold of the gun, mag ejected. If your mag gets ejected somehow your bullets have now completely separated from the firearm, you may have just one shot, depending on firearm you may have zero shots. I think that's where this conversation always ends up, the distance question. At a distance (several feet, a few yards) having more ammo would absolutely be an advantage, quick reloads could also possibly be an advantage. Within a couple feet distance, you aren't going to be reloading and you need a gun that will not be as effected by the circumstances/effects of grappling with the bad guy as a semi-auto is.
Oddly enough, if you need to shoot under water a semi-auto works better than a revolver. I was watching a show the other night where it was tested, apparently a revolver hammer slows down just enough under water to keep it from firing the primer, and the Glock they used not only fired once but continued to cycle under water. Who would've thought.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday 1950 View Post
My feelings are quality always trumps quantity no matter what your weapon de jour is.
That's good, but my motto would be "reliably always trumps quantity" over "quality always trumps quantity".

There are beautifully made, quality guns that are not so reliable for self defense and guns that have a high ammo capacity which are very reliable.

I tend to agree that revolvers are generally more reliable and user-friendly then semi-autos as a group but I like and shoot both.

Last edited by GoodSam; 08-13-2018 at 12:07 AM.
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  #145  
Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
Anyone who believes otherwise, has not shot Revolvers long enough.

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In about 60 years of shooting revolvers, my experience has been that if you do your regular preventive maintenance on one you won't have any reliability issues. The only problem I've had lately was with a company-issued S&W Model 686-6 (not my issued 686-6) that started getting a bit hard to open at the range. Everything from the ejector rod back checked out, so I turned my attention to the front latch. A few squirts of solvent, a bit of air drying, a short squirt of lubricant, and it was back in full, easy action. I had a talk with the "trained Glock armorer" about how to maintain revolvers.

Since I'm retiring Friday and there are less than a handful of revolvers in the hands of officers, I don't know that my advice was actually absorbed.


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  #146  
Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM
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I agree with Engine49Guy that a .357 in a small frame S&W is quite uncomfortable to shoot. I would rather be on target with a lighter load than off target with a hotter load.

Here in the far south with heat soaring, carrying ANYTHING could be uncomfortable, so, I stick with 642 or my Ashland 60-1 2" Target that can take a .38 Special +P+ if you wanted however the +P is just fine and quite controllable. I use a shot shell (snake shot) as the 1st out just in case of critters and crawlers which I am much more likely to encounter than an assailant.

If I had to reach for a .357 Magnum, sorry guys, that N Frame would be a chore to carry. The Sig P229 in .357 Sig, would be preferable to me.
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  #147  
Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM
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I agree with Engine49guy. The Airweight 38 Special is the way to go. I carry the 642 (Enclosed Hammer) for the Summer and move to my 40 Compact for colder days.
Don't limit yourself to just one and done!
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Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday 1950 View Post
I posted this question on a different forum & would like to include
the S&W forum in this question.

What would you want to carry for SD, a 357 in magnum revolver(6 or 7 shot) or a Glock 19 you can sub any pistol & any 357 in magnum for this discussion.

At this present time I'm going between my new & improved 686 + revolver & my G19 gen 4 &/or my G43. My G19 is by far an easier pistol to shoot with accuracy that my G43.

However, my 686 + with my new trigger job is now my first choice to carry 24/7
even though its a monster to carry. My feelings are quality always trumps quantity no matter what your weapon de jour is.

As always, all responses are welcome.
Since you asked the question about SPECIFIC guns, I will give you a SPECIFIC answer.

First, I would eliminate the g43 because it's NOT the one you shoot best - by your own admission. That should be the first consideration in your decision: WHICH DO I SHOOT BEST?

Now that you're down to the 686 or glock 19, it seems that you favor the 686, but the question is...because you say it's a monster to carry ARE YOU LIKELLY TO ACTUALLY CARRY IT EVERYDAY? Be honest with yourself about this because edc stands for EVERY day carry. If the answer is "Yes", then your choice is pretty easy. And if you think you won't then I'd recommend going with the glock 19, and that's not a bad choice at all.
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Old Yesterday, 11:42 PM
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Since I'm retiring Friday ...
Congratulations!
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