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Old 06-27-2018, 02:29 PM
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Default One big difference b/w revolver and auto

All these threads about revolver vs auto, and no one as far as I can see has brought up weight distribution.

I was carrying my Beretta M9 for a while everyday in a leather pancake thumb break DeSantis holster. It has 18 rounds total of the Federal 115 gr. +p+. I then switched to carrying my S&W 686 plus loaded with 7 rounds of Winchester 125 gr. .357 mag SJHP.

Both of these guns are heavy. The Beretta is 33 ounces unloaded, the 686 is 40 ounces unloaded. Guess which one feels better on the belt? The 686 feels a lot lighter. Iíve deduced that the auto pistol carries most of its weight in the grip, which tends to pull the pistol outward away from the body, making it feel heavier.

The revolver has its weight spread out evenly, which makes it Ďlighterí on the belt, even though itís heavier. I think the 1911 feels similar to the revolver, as itís weight is more evenly distributed.
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Old 06-27-2018, 02:54 PM
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That's a very good point, and an important one too.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:17 PM
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Unlike the semi autos, the revolver's plusses of no failure to feed and no failure to eject far outweighs the negative of weight distribution imo.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:20 PM
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Unlike the semi autos, the revolver's plusses of no failure to feed and no failure to eject far outweighs the negative of weight distribution imo.
I think there's a misunderstanding...the revolver, according to my OP, has a favorable weight distribution. The auto loader (particularly the double stack), has an unfavorable weight distribution that makes it feel heavier on the belt than it actually is.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:22 PM
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I don't believe he was implying that the Wake distribution of the revolver was a negative, but instead a positive.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:25 PM
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The revolver has superfluous weight.

The chamber of any gun needs to be heavy and strong enough to contain the forces generated at firing. The revolver has five to eight chambers, yet only one of them can be used at any one time. The auto has one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted.

So a six round auto will be much lighter than a six round revolver.

Feel is subjective.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:29 PM
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The only weight distribution I ever have a problem with has nothing whatever to do with the guns I choose to carry.

Revolver, pistol, all the same to me depending on my clothes and where I am going to be.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:31 PM
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The revolver has superfluous weight.

The chamber of any gun needs to be heavy and strong enough to contain the forces generated at firing. The revolver has five to eight chambers, yet only one of them can be used at any one time. The auto has one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted.

So a six round auto will be much lighter than a six round revolver.

Feel is subjective.
I agree. The revolver has a lot of extra weight. Much of it is at the 'middle' of the piece, and when loaded, most of it is in the middle and up toward the muzzle. When holstered with the muzzle down, all the weight is at belt level or lower, which keeps the whole piece close to the body, with a center of gravity straight down.

With a double stack auto, especially when loaded, the weight is at the heal of the gun, in the grip. When holstered, the majority of the pistol's weight is *above* the belt line, which pulls the pistol away from the wearer's body, thus causing a 'teetering' effect that counterbalances the muzzle against the thigh. This makes it feel much heavier.

I wear a stiff gun belt, and all of this is still subjectively apparent.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:38 PM
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I'm blown away by how easy & almost unnoticeable it is to carry a J frame 642 in a pocket holster with a pair of cargo shorts. A lot of these You Tube reviews on carry guns put a lot of focus on the width & imply that skinnier guns are "better" to carry and that's just not the case with a revolver. They are IMHO, the perfect civilian self defense guns.

With that being said, if I knew I was walking into a gun battle, I'd take the Beretta 92, but for self defense, whoever's on the receiving end of that 686 is going to have a very bad day.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:46 PM
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I'm blown away by how easy & almost unnoticeable it is to carry a J frame 642 in a pocket holster with a pair of cargo shorts. A lot of these You Tube reviews on carry guns put a lot of focus on the width & imply that skinnier guns are "better" to carry and that's just not the case with a revolver. They are IMHO, the perfect civilian self defense guns.

With that being said, if I knew I was walking into a gun battle, I'd take the Beretta 92, but for self defense, whoever's on the receiving end of that 686 is going to have a very bad day.
Agree with everything you said. My 649 J-frame .357 carries in the pocket better than smaller autos.

The M9 with a 20 round MecGar magazine is a formidable tool for a real wild-west shootout scenario.

For home or self defense of the typical type, there's something just perfect about a 4-6 inch .357 magnum loaded with the 125 gr. full throttle magnums.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:59 PM
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Well as a IWB concealed carrier....... having the auto grip ride just above the belt line is easier than the cylinder under the belt..... I can do a k frame but an L or N....cylinders are just too wide.

Also with the slide against my leg there is no 'pull away from the body"...... a Sparks Executive Companion spreads the pressure over approximately a 36sq inch (6x6) area of my thigh.

Note on carrying OWB ...... the spread of the belt slots/loops are a big factor..... in spreading the weight.......... think the Bianchi 5BH with the single belt slot behind the holster vs...... a 'pancake style with 2 belt slots 4-41/2 inches apart.


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Old 06-27-2018, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American1776 View Post
All these threads about revolver vs auto, and no one as far as I can see has brought up weight distribution.

I was carrying my Beretta M9 for a while everyday in a leather pancake thumb break DeSantis holster. It has 18 rounds total of the Federal 115 gr. +p+. I then switched to carrying my S&W 686 plus loaded with 7 rounds of Winchester 125 gr. .357 mag SJHP.

Both of these guns are heavy. The Beretta is 33 ounces unloaded, the 686 is 40 ounces unloaded. Guess which one feels better on the belt? The 686 feels a lot lighter. Iíve deduced that the auto pistol carries most of its weight in the grip, which tends to pull the pistol outward away from the body, making it feel heavier.

The revolver has its weight spread out evenly, which makes it Ďlighterí on the belt, even though itís heavier. I think the 1911 feels similar to the revolver, as itís weight is more evenly distributed.
I think the diff is weight balance. In a plastic gun it is in the butt. In a steel gun it is more evenly distributed.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:39 PM
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Weight destribution not withstanding I was in three fights w/my issued revolver, trust that platform implicitly and still carry one in retirement.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:05 PM
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A proper belt and holster handle the weight distribution of a hi-cap auto just fine carried AIWB. Any 6-8 shot revolver, no matter the weight distribution, is harder to carry because of the shape of the gun. Holster enhancements like muzzle pads and claws keep the holster/auto tight up against your body without outward tipping. The weight is distributed through the belt around the hips.

OWB the revolver may carry better because of the weight distribution with a floppy holster on a thin, soft belt. However, a fully fastened auto holster on a wide, stiff belt will carry just fine, especially with new features like a muzzle pad to keep the grip tilted in.

In short, if you have problems carrying a gun because of weight distribution issues based on a grip full of rounds, those issues have been resolved by numerous belt and holster makers. If I’m going to carry 40+ oz of gun with 6 bullets, or 40+ oz of gun with 18 bullets, I know why I’m carrying the SA.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:02 PM
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How much of the difference in feel is due to the difference in holster's
and how the pistol rides on the belt ..

I would think that is the difference not the difference in balance of the 2 pistols ..
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
The revolver has superfluous weight.

The chamber of any gun needs to be heavy and strong enough to contain the forces generated at firing. The revolver has five to eight chambers, yet only one of them can be used at any one time. The auto has one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted.

So a six round auto will be much lighter than a six round revolver.

Feel is subjective.
Having REDUNDANT (not superfluous) chambers comes in handy if your "one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted." Contains a dud round, or an overpower round that creates a FTFeed, or an underpower round that creates a FTEject.

All of your redundant chambers are fully supported so that when you fire 50 rounds you get 50 reloadable cases (without wearing out your back).
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:54 AM
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Having REDUNDANT (not superfluous) chambers comes in handy if your "one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted." Contains a dud round, or an overpower round that creates a FTFeed, or an underpower round that creates a FTEject.

All of your redundant chambers are fully supported so that when you fire 50 rounds you get 50 reloadable cases (without wearing out your back).
Except of course when a primer backs out and jams the cylinder.

Or a squib lodges between the cylinder and the barrel, or in the barrel.

Or if the ejector gets a little loose and being unscrewed locks up the cylinder.

Or internal parts/springs break.

Or enough debris gets under the extractor to raise it a smidgeon and bind up the cylinder.

Or you get the same over pressure load that takes out a semi.

You have to clean six chambers instead of one.

Revolvers are not foolproof. Generally, if one goes tits up, itís only useful as a small club. The advantage of not having to pick up brass is inconsequential for most people.

Semiís can run suppressors better than revolvers.

Grabbing the cylinder of an opponentís revolver will prevent it from firing.

Really, one could go on with inane comparisons. Itís a choice of chances. Those who believe the reliability of revolvers overcomes their limited capacity and slow reloading are not wrong. They just use different criteria for their decisions.

But like semi-autos, revolvers are man made machines with tolerances and timing and parts that do get out of whack and weaknesses in their 150 year old design that can render them useless just like semi-autos but in different ways. Most malfs with a semi are easily fixable and will quickly put the gun back in action.

All that matters is that you feel confident in your choices. Just make sure in your priorities that you are dealing with truth and not lore.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:58 AM
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I vote for the holster making most of the difference particularly a hi rise v a lower riding holster. Hi rise might conceal better but a lower rise carries more comfortably. Apples to apples I can carry a 4 inch N frame more comfortably that I can a Golck 19 in an IWB holster. There is more of the weight down below the top edge of my waistband w the revolver. W the Glock the weight of the ammo in the grip levers the muzzle end of the slide into me until it hurts to carry.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:09 AM
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I vote for the holster making most of the difference. W the Glock the weight of the ammo in the grip levers the muzzle end of the slide into me until it hurts to carry.
The answer for some may be a revolver. For others, it is a better holster for the semi.

Apples to apples, the weight of the gun is contained in the holster. The holster either distributes all the weight evenly onto the gun belt, and the belt to a large area of the waist/hips, or you donít have a good holster. Modern IWB semi holsters (made within the last 2-3 years) overcome tipping, discomfort, and weight distribution perceptions.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:41 AM
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Except of course when a primer backs out and jams the cylinder.

Or a squib lodges between the cylinder and the barrel, or in the barrel.

Or if the ejector gets a little loose and being unscrewed locks up the cylinder.

Or internal parts/springs break.

Or enough debris gets under the extractor to raise it a smidgeon and bind up the cylinder.

Or you get the same over pressure load that takes out a semi.

You have to clean six chambers instead of one.

Revolvers are not foolproof. Generally, if one goes tits up, itís only useful as a small club. The advantage of not having to pick up brass is inconsequential for most people.

Semiís can run suppressors better than revolvers.

Grabbing the cylinder of an opponentís revolver will prevent it from firing.

Really, one could go on with inane comparisons. Itís a choice of chances. Those who believe the reliability of revolvers overcomes their limited capacity and slow reloading are not wrong. They just use different criteria for their decisions.

But like semi-autos, revolvers are man made machines with tolerances and timing and parts that do get out of whack and weaknesses in their 150 year old design that can render them useless just like semi-autos but in different ways. Most malfs with a semi are easily fixable and will quickly put the gun back in action.

All that matters is that you feel confident in your choices. Just make sure in your priorities that you are dealing with truth and not lore.
Each mechanical failure mentioned will render a firearm of whatever type a non ergonomic club. So will squibs. Except for massive overpressure loads Autos are more ammunition sensitive both in design and charge.

Rule One: have a gun.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:56 AM
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I own , and "Love" both guns.
Although my Beretta is a member of the M9 series , the 92FS.

I am, by far , most proficient w my 92FS , versus any of my other sidearms.
Albeit, I have only owned the 686 for a few months and have run less than 1K rounds thru it.

Both guns are a "tank".
In the hot and steamy Ohio summer, I only carry my PX4 Storm Compact or my Shield 9.

Carrying the 92FS in the fall & winter months is really not unpleasant due to the weight. My first concern is how well I can conceal and eliminate printing.

Once again as posted above, in a situation of conflict I would prefer the 92 w 15+1 , versus the 686 w 7 , regardless of the weight distribution.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainsail View Post
The revolver has superfluous weight.

The chamber of any gun needs to be heavy and strong enough to contain the forces generated at firing. The revolver has five to eight chambers, yet only one of them can be used at any one time. The auto has one chamber which is reused until the supply of ammo onboard is exhausted.

So a six round auto will be much lighter than a six round revolver.

Feel is subjective.
Feel not only is the weight but how it sets on the belt and how the holster fits on that belt .. I have a holster that the belt loops are very low on it and it is quite top heavy and the PX-4 Sub Compact feels heavy .. but put that same pistol in a Beretta leather Summer Comfort Holster IWB with adjustable cant with leather loops and sets low in the pants .. it isn't even noticed .. and it weighs 34 oz with 14 rounds loaded ..

A loose floppy holster that moves around will make the pistol feel heavier then it actually is !!
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:49 AM
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In MO holster and placement of holster have most to do with how my weapon feels. I could probably carry a big *** 1911 or s@w 29 in a shoulder holster all the time but not really practical without the right clothing. Wish I could try all the different designs and placements-- without buying them all. LOL
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:24 PM
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My last qualification target fired with my issued 4 inch S&W Model 686-6 on the same course that my Glock 22 equipped officers carry. They generally donít shoot 100s.
My last qualification target fired with my personally owned 2 inch S&W Model 12-2 on the same course.
Iím okay with all the ďdisadvantagesĒ of revolvers. I can easily conceal a K-frame revolver with a 2-4 inch barrel using a pancake OWB holster @ 3 oíclock under a Hawaiian shirt or sport coat. Iím 66, 5 ft 8 in, and weigh 185 lbs.


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Old 08-02-2018, 11:20 PM
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Elm Creek, how far was that target?
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:58 PM
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I have a M-19 6 inch that is a wonderfully balanced gun-that K frame keeps the weight down, and it is just a treat to shoot. And, as far as an N frame goes, the 5 inch barrels suit me the best, especially the 5 1/2 inch 627-0.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:00 AM
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6 rounds at 25 yards (2 rounds in 6 seconds x 3)
2 rounds at 15 yards (6 seconds)
4 rounds at 7 yards (4 seconds from the holster)
4 rounds at 5 yards (4 seconds from the holster/headshot is last)
6 rounds at 3 yards (4 seconds from the holster/3 with 2 hands/3 weak hand)
3 rounds at 1 yard (3 seconds from the holster one hand modified speed rock)

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Old 08-03-2018, 07:35 AM
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One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto  
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I carry a 325 PD, OWB. I am fat, the gun is fat, but light. Don't even feel it. The weight of the multiple chambers on a revolvers is an easy fix. Titanium.

I don't think there is any real difference between a semi and a revolver as far as reliability. I wouldn't carry a tightened competition tuned semi, set up to fire one special load, nor, a revolver done the same way. I carry top of the line ammo and would do so no matter the platform.

I have fired many times more ammo through a revolver than a semi, to late in my game of life to change that or even want to. I have wired my brain to revolver. Brick after brick of 22lr through a K22, thousands and thousands of 38 and 357, through a model 28, thousands of 44s and 45s through various N frames, all the same basic platform. I have had several 22 semis, but none just the same as a big bore. I have a Ruger light weight commander 1911. Great gun, fires every time I pull the trigger, its flat and easy to carry. It would get the job done well. But, my instinct isn't to draw, work the safety and fire. If I had a semi with no safety, the recoil and movement of gun as it cycled isn't what I am used to. My hand is used to wrapping around a revolver and finding the trigger. I haven't got enough years left to get to the same spot with an auto. I could start, but then I can also just keep working my revolver skills. I might be a dinosaur, sticking with a revolver, but, I am a well armed one.

Last edited by steelslaver; 08-03-2018 at 07:44 AM.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:23 AM
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keith44spl keith44spl is offline
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One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto One big difference b/w revolver and auto  
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I sometimes carry both





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  #30  
Old 08-03-2018, 09:37 AM
jwk jwk is offline
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Keith that is a pretty rig and 2 nice handguns. Nice grips too.
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