We often have discussions about intervening in shooting situations. Usually the discussions focus on ‘would you or wouldn’t you?’ questions.

What we sometimes don’t address are the ways things may go wrong.

In this instance, things went well, but involved good guys with lots of training and experience most CCWs simply don’t have.

You may not like the Washington Post, but this article identifies some of those issues.

‘In all reality, there were three shooters.’ Oklahomans kill an active shooter, and it’s not as simple as it sounds. - The Washington Post

Among other things, this offers the most detailed description of the event I’ve seen.

Couple key words in the article were "He ran to his car to get his gun and moved toward the sounds"

and; "self-appointed protectors".

The thing we all need to keep in mind is, if you so chose to intervene, you are running into a unknown situation. The active shooter may very well be someone hell bent to kill as many as he can.

OR

He/she may be a innocent civilian who is licensed to carry defending themselves. You don't know what the situation is simply because you are not a LEO and do not have a dispatcher relaying info & facts to you as calls are coming in... A LEO comes in, the first thing they know is there is a guy with a gun, you can be all the good guy you want, but expect to be handcuffed until the situation is under their control. This is how armed well intentioned civilians get shot. It has happened before.

My advice? Stay out of it, walk away, be the best witness you can be.

I am licensed to carry, however it is for my own personal protection, not for your's or others. If I'm outside and I heard gunshots inside, I'm going to keep walking...

Question: Did the civilian with a carry license help save officers lives? End of story. What if's at the end of the day Do Not matter.

"He and another bystander shot and killed the man before he could hurt anyone else during the incident on May 24."

The shooter was pointed out by a witness before the two good Samaritans engaged him. They independently challenged him verbally before he pointed his gun and fired at one of them. Only then did they shoot at him.

Stop trying to make this more of a cautionary tale than it should be. The Washington Post is no friend to gun owners.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I am constantly amazed how many people that are not LEO want to go get involved in a shooting. I get it, self protection & even defending others, but only in the immediate, not running to & looking for trouble. I have said before, unless you are there & even then, few situations where you know what you see is happening. I am glad it turned out well but could have easily gone the other way.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

These discussions have been pretty awesome. I think batting those ideas back and forth with different people, with different experiences has been really helpful for me. It's not just an echo chamber here. I think there have been reasoned opinions on all sides.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum wanting to be a self appointed protector or wanting to get into a shoot out. There have been some that have accused others of "playing police," but I haven't seen anyone that actually advocated doing anything that would resemble "playing police."

IMO, the question revolves around something a lot more specific. It seems to me the question is: "As a civilian CCW, if you witness someone actively attempting to murder another person (or people) that you don't know and you're in a position to stop it, would you?"

Most people don't live in an isolation chamber. They evaluate and mitigate risks every day. I used to do solo, long distance motorcycle touring. There's an upside and a risk. Early in my into adulthood, I jumped out of a few perfectly good airplanes. There's an upside and a risk.

If you're going to intervene in a deadly force attack on someone else, there's an upside and a risk to be evaluated. You may save that person. Or you and them could both be killed. Either at the hands of a bad guy or a LEO that didn't know you were the good guy. Does it matter who?

I think the discussions here have been incredibly helpful figuring out when it may make sense to intervene and when it doesn't.

Just my 2 cents.

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Vegan by proxy.

Ahh there is the crux of the issue. Did you personally see what happened, start until you jump in & finish it? Talking to person A or B that supposedly witnessed an attack is basically hearsay to you. Me, I doubt I run to that fight. Children in a school or anyone shooting at civilians in general in an area, well you know what you see when you get there.
Two guys shooting at each other, you have very little info to go on. Who is the bad guy, who is the good guy? Are they both bad guys, like tow gangs going at it Chicago style. Nope, not touching that one.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

In this situation things 'went right'. But consider how many things could have 'gone wrong', and how many times things do go wrong......
“It is what it is,” Whittle (one of those that shot the attacker) said. “You’d better be damn sure that what you are doing is right, because you’ll pay the consequences if you are wrong.” Truer words have never been spoken.
What frightens me more than some other things is that there seems to be a faction of the population carrying and hoping to find a 'situation'. It's a small group, but it's a bomb waiting to explode .....
I will in fact defend myself, my family, or someone I am with if need be, but interjecting myself into a 'situation' in progress has soooo many perils. Didn't we just discuss an incident about a week ago where a man interjected himself to break up a fight, drew a weapon, and was killed by police when they arrived? He may have known what he was doing, but things ended in disaster for him and his family.

Good Men are brave, Good Men seek to do the right think.

Good for the Oklahoma Men that did the right thing.


The what if's.....What if Good Men did nothing world wide???



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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

...And how would you feel if your loved ones had been in the situation of being shot up by some random looney, and an armed and licensed bystander just stood by and let it happen while he strolled off with his head up his backside? "Sorry... I don't want to get involved. It's not my responsibility." Your wife and kid are wounded, or worse...

How would you feel then?

These guys are righteous citizens, and I applaud them.

Walk away? Pathetic! I would never trust the likes to have my back with anything!

Doesn't change the fact that the Washingtion Post isn't worth the paper it is printed on. They are right neat the top of the fake news, and that's saying something. They should be ashamed of themselves for printing this drivel.

Rgvshooter noted but all others have discounted that the good guy shooters were NOT carrying... Both went to their respective vehicles to retrieve their guns and then put themselves in harm’s way. Good that it worked out but it was not a smart move.