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Old 07-20-2018, 12:09 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
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Default Thoughts on carry guns

Here's some of my thought's guys/gals... I'm not a professional, not military or LE. I'm just a guy who has been shooting & participating in shooting events since the 8th grade. I've been licensed to carry for years and have carried IWB and OWB several different types of handguns. So what I'm about to say is based on my own personal experience.

I've owned/carried/sold over the yrs...

9mm & 40s&w M&P shield
M&P bodyguard 380 (no laser)
Kahr CM9
Kahr K9
Kahr CW40
Glock 23 gen 4
M&P 9mm
Kel tec P32
S&W 642
S&W mod 10 4" HB...
Bulgarian makarov 9x18
Bersa Thunder 380.

Now, I never owned all of these guns at the same time. And I currently only own 4 firearms. Some of the handguns listed above I've used in local IDPA matches & a local charity match as well. I strongly believe in using what you carry so that's what I've done. Of all these handguns, I sold most of them because of quality/reliability/carry issues. Others I've sold, such as the bersa Thunder because it's basically the same size as the K9 & Shield so why carry a 380 if you have a 9mm that's the same size gun? (9mm ammo costs less too )

Of the guns listed, that I've carried, I still feel the M&P shield 9mm was the best all around handgun for personal defense for ease of comfort for carrying, ease of finding accessories & reliability. I would pick the 9mm over the 40 shield based on shootability, 40s&w in a small poly frame compact is not shooter friendly. I used it in IDPA under the stress of having my friends watch me woodchuck it. But with the 9, I could shoot it faster & put more hits on target.

2nd runner up would be the S&W 642. For a revolver, it pocket carries very well in a appropriate pocket holster.. Much better in the pocket than the shield. The shield is a gun that belongs in a holster on your belt IMO.

And finally, for the mouse gun enthusiasts a special shout out to Kel Tec's P32.

For a pistol that can be had for $230 bucks (As of 2018) I am impressed with it's reliability & lightweight. It's chambered in 32acp however the magazine holds 7 + 1 in the chamber. I mainly use the P32 for when I'm out on the jogging/hiking trails in south Texas because of its small size & even fully loaded it's around 8 ounces if that...

So there ya have it... Let me know of your thoughts and if anyone has a question on a specific model gun that I mentioned above, then ask me what i think of it, and why i sold it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:12 PM
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If it works for you, it works for you. None of your choices are unreasonable or unrealistic. You logic is solid and makes sense. If you are happy I am happy for you.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:30 PM
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Today while on my walk in the National Forest here in AZ, I came across AZ Fish and Game at the trail head. He was relocating a black bear that was invading some residential areas.

I usually carry a 1911 commander, thinking I'll be packing my 629 MG from now on. No puny calibers.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:15 PM
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I have a bunch of gun choices for ccw. I am pretty much wedded to my g26 for most instances. Small & light enough to edc with any attire. Powerful enough to get the job done & easy to shoot fast & accurate to 50y, as far as you will likely ever need for a self def shooting. Only slightly bigger than a Shield.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
Today while on my walk in the National Forest here in AZ, I came across AZ Fish and Game at the trail head. He was relocating a black bear that was invading some residential areas.

I usually carry a 1911 commander, thinking I'll be packing my 629 MG from now on. No puny calibers.
Yeah in bear country, I am certainly carrying at least a full power 10mm, 44" 4mag would be more likely.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:33 PM
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Because I have enough guns, or maybe even more, and because I am kind of settled on revolvers for normal EDC (have several autos that might be better for certain as-yet-unperceived threats), I don't have any questions for you. However, I appreciate the offer. After one's own experience with the gun in one's own hand, others' actual experience may be the most valuable information.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:03 PM
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Not a bear thread!!! But I'd carry my Model 25 .45 Colt in that area.

=======================================

I stopped carrying a 642 because I find the 649 all steel just as easy to pocket carry and a zillion times easier to shoot and shoot well.

I belt carry a 2" K frame and I belt carry a CS-9 and a 6906. The 2" K frame also pocket carries in my cargo pants.

Those are the guns in my regular EDC lineup.

If I wear ridiculously light clothing out, like a T-short and shorts (I just don't usually do that but it can happen), I might switch to a .22 Magnum derringer or a Beretta 950 BS in .25 ACP. Nothing by Kel-Tec is permitted in my house. Long story for another time.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:13 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
If I wear ridiculously light clothing out, like a T-short and shorts (I just don't usually do that but it can happen), I might switch to a .22 Magnum derringer or a Beretta 950 BS in .25 ACP. Nothing by Kel-Tec is permitted in my house. Long story for another time.
I forgot to add, I had a Beretta model 71 in 22lr and a Tomcat 32. I regret selling the mod 71 and the Tomcat I felt was too fat for comfortable pocket carry. Those Beretta tip up barrel's are really cool guns tho.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:27 PM
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S&W CS series or Walther PPKs gets my vote.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
Today while on my walk in the National Forest here in AZ, I came across AZ Fish and Game at the trail head. He was relocating a black bear that was invading some residential areas.

I usually carry a 1911 commander, thinking I'll be packing my 629 MG from now on. No puny calibers.
I take offense of your "PUNY" caliber comment for the .32 caliber. Let me know when you want to stand in front of a 1908 7.625mm Browning designed .32 Auto Colt Pistol at 30 feet!

The 1911 has been military scrapped junk since the 1940's

Here you go:

Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smith and Wesson Model 39: The gun that wanted to replace the 1911 and helped inspire the modern generation of compact service pistols – rifleshooter.com
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
I take offense of your "PUNY" caliber comment for the .32 caliber. Let me know when you want to stand in front of a 1908 7.625mm Browning designed .32 Auto Colt Pistol at 30 feet!

The 1911 has been military scrapped junk since the 1940's

Here you go:

Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smith and Wesson Model 39: The gun that wanted to replace the 1911 and helped inspire the modern generation of compact service pistols Ė rifleshooter.com
Be offended all you want, but use that puny 73g .32ACP on a black bear you may not live to tell the tale.

and my 1911's.. do you want stand in front of one.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by bigggbbruce; 07-20-2018 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:33 AM
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use that puny 73g .32ACP on a black bear you may not live to tell the tale.
It's almost like you think the bear is going to notice.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:47 AM
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I started my career carrying a snub .38 off duty in 1968. My issued revolver saved me three times during my career so that’s where my comfort level is. My experience w/the tiny .380 pistols (S&W BG, LCP, Taurus & G42) is checkered w/respect to reliability so I’ve pretty much given up on them. Real life street time has taught me that when/if an attack comes it will be swift & w/o warning.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:23 AM
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If I knew I was going into bear country and had a choice between a .32 caliber or a .45 cal 1911 I think my old fazed out 1911 would be on my side. And a good pair of running shoes!
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:27 AM
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All these comments about which gun you want to stand in front of and be shot are silly, IMHO.

My answer: None of the above.

I don't want to "stand in front of" a BB gun or pellet gun either.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
I take offense of your "PUNY" caliber comment for the .32 caliber. Let me know when you want to stand in front of a 1908 7.625mm Browning designed .32 Auto Colt Pistol at 30 feet!

The 1911 has been military scrapped junk since the 1940's

Here you go:

Smith & Wesson Model 39 - Wikipedia

Smith and Wesson Model 39: The gun that wanted to replace the 1911 and helped inspire the modern generation of compact service pistols Ė rifleshooter.com
If the 32 was a desirable load everyone would be carrying them .. but since larger caliber is the rounds of choice for probably 99% of conceal carriers .. and most don't own anything in that caliber ..

Myself I know no one that carries that round for protection..

Your statement is lacking in veracity !!
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:15 PM
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I "carry a .32 gun in my pocket for fun"......... my name is "Bond;James Bond"

A .22 will kill you ..... ask the Mossad....... and either is better than a miss with a .45 or .44 magnum.

Almost anything is better than a sharp stick..........

I've come to think the handgun "caliber wars" are greatly overstated........that said....... carry the right gun for the possible "threats" you may face. A Big bore magnum in "Bear country" makes sense ( note to self: in Big Bad Brown and Grizzly Country make mine a 12 gauge.... w/ slugs) ......... even Dirty Harry only carried "light load .44s" on the Streets of San Francisco...... see the pistol range scene in "Magnum Force"



Rule one...... have a gun...... on you; not at home

Rule two...... know how to use it ........ practice practice practice

Rule three ....... shot placement is "king"........ a double tap is better!

Rule Four..... often overlooked ..... no one likes to get shot with anything; and most of us "civilians" will never ever face that " 7 member crack crazed home invasion team" we are always warned about!!!!

Rule Five......... keep shooting till the threat ( to life or serious bodily injury) is stopped (A mag dump from a Walther PPK/s in .32apc ..... is 9 .32 slugs...... kind of reminds me of........ a 12 gauge buck shot load.)

Rule six...... be the first to call "911"


I now return you to your regular programming................

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Old 07-21-2018, 05:42 PM
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It's almost like you think the bear is going to notice.
That OLD pic of a Native woman killing that BIG bear with a 22 lr??? I'd bet that bear noticed, if it didn't die instantly.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:53 PM
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That OLD pic of a Native woman killing that BIG bear with a 22 lr??? I'd bet that bear noticed, if it didn't die instantly.
Actually, it died from embarrassment.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:05 PM
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Default Why is .38 Spec. adequate but .380 ACP not?

You read it all the time, on the Internet and in print: That a .38 Spec. fired from a snubby revolver is just fine for self-defense purposes, but a .380 is considered "marginal". Why? I mean, a 135 gr. Gold Dot load has essentially the same amount of energy as a 90-100 grain .380 load. They make basically same size hole also.
So, why the disparity?
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:36 PM
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I carry a Shield .45 because I googled it on the internet. I feel confident that even if I hit em even so much as their pinky finger it will spin em like a top. If it's on the internet it must be true....
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:51 PM
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I carry a Shield .45 because I googled it on the internet. I feel confident that even if I hit em even so much as their pinky finger it will spin em like a top. If it's on the internet it must be true....
That's only when it's fired from a 1911. The 45 acp isn't nearly as effective from any other firearm. I know this for a fact. My uncle used to have a neighbor who's brother was a Navy Seal!
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:12 AM
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You read it all the time, on the Internet and in print: That a .38 Spec. fired from a snubby revolver is just fine for self-defense purposes, but a .380 is considered "marginal". Why? I mean, a 135 gr. Gold Dot load has essentially the same amount of energy as a 90-100 grain .380 load. They make basically same size hole also.
So, why the disparity?
The biggest issue with the 380 is the light bullet & shallow penetration if a jhp.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:39 AM
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The reason the Army wanted a .45 caliber pistol in 1911 was for killing horses in Serbia in WWI! It did do that well either! When I personally saw that the round could not penetrate a navy Pee coat, that was it for me! 11 mm bullets were never proven reliable performers. Now shave a mm off down to 10 mm or .40 cal and get the bullet speed up around 1,350 fps and you got something that works, even on bears LOL!

The 1911 is nothing more that Military Scrapped Junk and the worst gun ever designed. Like the Ford Model T, you just got to keep rebuilding them so they keep working.

The best gun ever designed and manufactured is the Glock! That's why there are so many of them in use every single day. It is estimated that over one million Glock pistols are shot every day around the world ,WITHOUT FAILURE,!!!!! Smith and Wesson comes in second!
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:35 PM
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The reason the Army wanted a .45 caliber pistol in 1911 was for killing horses in Serbia in WWI! It did do that well either! When I personally saw that the round could not penetrate a navy Pee coat, that was it for me!
I'd have to see that 45 acp not penetrating a navy pea coat.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:46 PM
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The reason the Army wanted a .45 caliber pistol in 1911 was for killing horses in Serbia in WWI! It did do that well either! When I personally saw that the round could not penetrate a navy Pee coat, that was it for me! 11 mm bullets were never proven reliable performers. Now shave a mm off down to 10 mm or .40 cal and get the bullet speed up around 1,350 fps and you got something that works, even on bears LOL!

The 1911 is nothing more that Military Scrapped Junk and the worst gun ever designed. Like the Ford Model T, you just got to keep rebuilding them so they keep working.

The best gun ever designed and manufactured is the Glock! That's why there are so many of them in use every single day. It is estimated that over one million Glock pistols are shot every day around the world ,WITHOUT FAILURE,!!!!! Smith and Wesson comes in second!
Went to the range last Friday with two snub revolvers. And I rented a Sig P238. The P238 is a 380 1911 style gun. (I bought one last week and decided to try the rental while waiting for the 10 day period to end.).

My buddy came with his Glock and a revolver.

Anyway, after about 10 shots with the Glock the end broke off his plastic recoil spring guide rod and went flying down range. He was left high and dry with a nonfunctional Glock, so finished the range session with his revolver.

BTW, that P238 shot really well and accurately even from the first magazine.

Didn't seem like the worst gun ever designed.

My friend doesn't blame the Glock, however, since he never changed the recoil spring/guide rod in the 16 years he had the gun.

Last edited by Cal44; 07-22-2018 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:19 PM
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When I personally saw that the round could not penetrate a navy Pee coat, that was it for me!
Very interesting statement you just made there, care to back it up with some proof?
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:47 PM
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This has got to be a gag, right? Retired cop has a twisted sense of humor!LOL!
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:56 PM
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Old and fat, no comfort to carry anything, small plastic S&W 380 is my EDC. Figure 6 rounds is equal to one or two rounds from a 45. Hope I never need to re-evaluate that thought.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:55 PM
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For me, dependability is the number 1 issue for cc. Consequently I choose a snubby to carry. Unlike a semi-auto, no failures to feed or eject. Just 5 rounds, with reasonable power, ready to go.
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Old 07-22-2018, 05:21 PM
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The reason the Army wanted a .45 caliber pistol in 1911 was for killing horses in Serbia in WWI!
I want to know what kind of Intel the Army was getting that they knew 3 years before the war even started that they'd be killing horses in Serbia in 7 years :rofl:
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
If the 32 was a desirable load everyone would be carrying them .. but since larger caliber is the rounds of choice for probably 99% of conceal carriers .. and most don't own anything in that caliber ..

Myself I know no one that carries that round for protection..

Your statement is lacking in veracity !!
I carried a Seecamp .32 and a Keltec P32 for about a year and a half, and can't say I felt under gunned. .32 acp may not be a top choice for ccw, but even a .25 will get the job done with proper shot placement. The little Seecamp shines at arm length or contact distance. Anyway, once I tried a friend's lock breech Kahr .380 that had a great trigger and usable sights, I sold off the .32's and replaced them with two Kahrs. Some people look down on .380 too, but I feel well armed.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
The 1911 is nothing more that Military Scrapped Junk and the worst gun ever designed. Like the Ford Model T, you just got to keep rebuilding them so they keep working.
This **** again ? Do you have nothing better to do ?

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Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
So, why the disparity?
Real world performance basically.
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:46 AM
Old Arkansawyer Old Arkansawyer is offline
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I have carried a .22 mag and not felt unprotected. Also, how many verified black bear attacks on humans do we have per year or 10 years in the USA? We have a good population of black bears and a few mountain lions in Arkansas and I can not remember any attacks on humans. Just do not get between a mama bear and her cubs and let them be.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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You went through a LOT of handguns to come to that conclusion!

I agree with you about the Shield 9mm being the ideal CCW for EDC.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
If the 32 was a desirable load everyone would be carrying them .. but since larger caliber is the rounds of choice for probably 99% of conceal carriers .. and most don't own anything in that caliber ..

Myself I know no one that carries that round for protection..

Your statement is lacking in veracity !!
I've been known to carry a Kel-Tec P-32 at times. Good pocket pistol . . .
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:15 AM
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My TN cousins have killed more black bears with a .22 Mag than most people will ever see in a lifetime.

Too many overthink what firearm to carry. Get one you shoot well and carry it. It's not a "Carry-Gun-of-the-Month" club.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:16 PM
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...Too many overthink what firearm to carry. Get one you shoot well and carry it. It's not a "Carry-Gun-of-the-Month" club.
Killjoy!

Youíre right, of course, but Iíve never seen a gun hobbyist yet who owned and used only one handgun. Iíve known several individuals who owned only one handgun, but they didnít use them and couldnít have been fairly called a gun hobbyist.

I did have one dear friend who came close though. He had two - a small one that he would carry on occasion (a little Beretta tip-up .22, a Model 21?), and some sort of Ruger .357 stainless steel double-action revolver that he kept for use around his home. Most frugal gun-guy Iíve ever known. One time he told me he was a bit embarrassed to admit he had somehow come to own two trap guns, and since he couldnít shoot both at once he was going to have to get rid of one.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:21 PM
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I'd have to see that 45 acp not penetrating a navy pea coat.
Could it happen, sure, people win the lottery too. A single anecdotal event means nothing. Not to mention I believe nothing RC says.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:24 PM
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My TN cousins have killed more black bears with a .22 Mag than most people will ever see in a lifetime.

Too many overthink what firearm to carry. Get one you shoot well and carry it. It's not a "Carry-Gun-of-the-Month" club.
Yes but ambushing a bear over bait or in a tree with a head shot is not defending yourself in a fight with an armed attacker. The avg shooter can not make a standing headshot on demand in say a very long 2sec. Put the head in motion, shooter in motion, lets make it night time, yeah headshots, not gonna happen but by accident.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:26 PM
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To get back on topic, I prefer a 36 to 45 caliber pocket gun if I
need it. So I've got some J frames (442 & 640's) for revolvers.
In 9mm I've got some Kahr CM-9's for pistols. As far as 40's go,
the Shield works fine. Another one would be the Glock 23. Both
of these are a little big but in the winter up here you can't see
them when you're wearing a Parka.

The 45 is a Star PD I got in the 70's. It's just a hardball gun but it
runs fine.

I did buy a StarBM and it's verra, verra nice. Based on the caveats
I see for ammunition use I wonder how the Guardia Civil got non-
Nato Spec ammunition for it. I'm trying to decide how to put it
in my winter coat & I"ve still got about 6 weeks to figure that out.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
Went to the range last Friday with two snub revolvers. And I rented a Sig P238. The P238 is a 380 1911 style gun. (I bought one last week and decided to try the rental while waiting for the 10 day period to end.).

My buddy came with his Glock and a revolver.

Anyway, after about 10 shots with the Glock the end broke off his plastic recoil spring guide rod and went flying down range. He was left high and dry with a nonfunctional Glock, so finished the range session with his revolver.

BTW, that P238 shot really well and accurately even from the first magazine.

Didn't seem like the worst gun ever designed.

My friend doesn't blame the Glock, however, since he never changed the recoil spring/guide rod in the 16 years he had the gun.
Most of us will replace the recoil springs in our guns about 6k rds. In a Glo j, many replace the plastic with steel. Adds a bit of up front weight & removes the plastic breaking issue.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Yes but ambushing a bear over bait or in a tree with a head shot is not defending yourself in a fight with an armed attacker. The avg shooter can not make a standing headshot on demand in say a very long 2sec. Put the head in motion, shooter in motion, lets make it night time, yeah headshots, not gonna happen but by accident.
Well . . . they're east TN mountain boys who could definitely defend themselves with a .22 Mag. I've seen them shoot. I'm pretty good, if I must say so, but they can embarrass me to no end when they decide to put this flatlander in his place.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:41 PM
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I know I sound like a broken record, but before you pick the gun, come to reality with the prioritization of the carry compromises first.

All concealed carry is a compromise between comfort, conceal-ability, effective gun/caliber, and accessibility. Pocket carry is more concealable but not the fastest access, and doesn't allow a regular sized gun (that we all shoot better and more accurately).

Some of us older folks remember when concealed carry permits were hard to get, if not impossible. So in those days if you felt like you needed the sidearm, you concealed illegally. It took me a while to get over the nervousness that someone might discover I was carrying even though I have a license to do so. Once I realized that open carry was lawful (here) I never worried about my concealed carry again. Thus, concealment is the lowest priority for me. This allows me to comfortably (OWB) carry a regular sized gun (P229, P320, 1911), in an effective caliber (.357 or .45) with a gun in which I have confidence (can hit a target at any reasonable self-defense distance I may encounter).

If someone sees a lump, or even the muzzle if I'm reaching for something, that's far less important to me than comfort or any of the others.

So, not to answer your question but merely to give you some food for thought.

Last edited by Mainsail; 08-05-2018 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
That OLD pic of a Native woman killing that BIG bear with a 22 lr??? I'd bet that bear noticed, if it didn't die instantly.


Actually it was a .22 Long.
.22 Long Rifle mustíve been her elephant round.

Iíve tried a Glook. Maybe I didnít give it enough time, but Iím a total revolver guy. I carry a 3Ē M64.
Carrying IWB in a summer special, Iíve never seen a reason to carry a pocket pistol.
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