Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 07-22-2018, 12:30 PM
lrrifleman's Avatar
lrrifleman lrrifleman is online now
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 3,079
Likes: 4,948
Liked 1,799 Times in 941 Posts
Default

I am approaching this as a disabled individual. I have obtained my permits because I felt like my disabilities advertised my vulnerability. The last thing I want to do is cross the proverbial line in error.

Personally, I prefer the idea of picking which hill I die on. From much of what I have read, it seems as though I can be justified in most justifiable self defense scenarios provided that I didn't instigate the confrontation.

In this instance, the deceased appears to have chosen to violate the law by parking in a handicapped parking spot. The shooter appears to have instigated a verbal altercation with the woman that the deceased appears to be trying to defend. Was it worth his life? Virtually any man worth his salt would come to the aid of his woman.

I have a problem with this shooting and the statement of no charges. In the chain of events, the shooter appears to be the instigator in my book. Yes, the instigator got knocked on his *$$, but where was the threat of imminent bodily harm? In many respects, the shooter has an established history of self appointed predatory enforcement of the handicapped parking space, and an apparent history of a predisposition to threaten bodily harm towards violators in the past.

Personally, I just can't see this shooting as being deemed justifiable considering his role in instigating the initial confrontation which does escalate out of control.
__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Last edited by lrrifleman; 07-22-2018 at 12:42 PM.
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #52  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:24 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,142
Likes: 1,343
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,571 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathloncoach View Post
How about stop yelling at my family? There are plenty of good parking spaces. Bully.
The shooting was bad imo, BUT you are not seriously excusing dick behavior by people actually breaking a law & parking in a hdcp space, really?? Yeah confronting them is not the issue. Confronting them with a gun is the issue. When you carry a gun you are bringing a deadly weapon into every confrontation. You lose the confrontation, you now must protect the gun at all cost, including lethal force. The zimmerman affect is at play here, starting a fight & you brought the only deadly weapon. Dick move meets dick move, somebody gets shot.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 07-22-2018 at 05:59 PM.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #53  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:28 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 2,052
Liked 2,976 Times in 1,266 Posts
Default

I think there's a lesson to be learned from the deceased's side of the fence. Now, I'm very specifically going to examine this from the point of time he emerged from the store, before he assaulted the shooter. Okay? Bolded and underlined.

I think that we can agree that we have an obligation to protect our spouses/partners/etc--and yeah, that goes for both genders, not just men.

But the deceased had three options when it came to intervening:

(A) Attempt to verbally de-escalate: "Hey, what's going on?...Oh, I'm sorry, I parked there. That was rude of me, I'll move right away." Take the focus off the girlfriend, swallow your pride, defuse and gtfo. Once you're out and away, call the cops. This would be my choice.

(B) Aggressively de-escalate: Fencing gesture and a stern "BACK OFF." Meh. I would resort to this if A didn't work. But at this point, the guy is just standing there shouting. He's not a criminal looking to get close, and he hasn't shown any signs of physical escalation.

(C) Get physical. Obviously, this did not work, because the deceased is...deceased. Now, aside from the fact that the guy is dead, he's not responding to any sort of overt or covert threat. The guy is just standing there shouting. So aside from being a crime, there's no need to take the conflict to that place.

There are ways we can intervene and defend our loved ones without escalating a conflict.

Also, it was kind of bad fightin'. I mean, knock the guy down, and then just stop and stand there, helpless to do anything while he pulls out a pistol and shoots your dumb butt? If you gotta fight a guy, don't stop fighting until he's restrained.

What's that old story? If you get into a fight with a young guy, he might beat you up, but an old guy will just shoot you.

Last edited by Wise_A; 07-22-2018 at 01:32 PM.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #54  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:33 PM
nachogrande nachogrande is online now
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gods waiting room, W/C FL
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 2,449
Liked 3,101 Times in 1,401 Posts
Default NO, NO, NO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathloncoach View Post
Do you just wait for this guy to hit your wife before you intervene? I dunno.
Having (1 child with you NOT 3) & that 1 was in the store with the husband, does not make you handicapped a medical condition does. Any MAN worth his salt should defend his wife/family IMO, that said with the age & size advantage on the deceased's side a cheap sucker shot was not needed when a "HEY BUDDY IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM TAKE IT UP WITH ME" would have sufficed. Neither one handled it well from beginning to end. In the event you were in, exiting the car while armed could have easily made you the aggressor & the guy verbally arguing with your daughter within his rights to defend himself from you. Roles can switch quickly & if He had a witness & both swore you exited brandishing a gun & making threats, You may not be here posting now.

Last edited by nachogrande; 07-22-2018 at 01:42 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #55  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:44 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 2,052
Liked 2,976 Times in 1,266 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
The shooting was bad imo, BUT you are not seriously excusing dick behavior by people actually breaking a law & parking in a hdcp space, really?? Yeah confronting them is not the issue. Confronting them with a gun is the issue. When you arry a gun you are bringing a deadly weapon into every confrontation. You lose the confrontation, you now must protect the gun at all cost, including lethal force. The zimmerman affect is at play here, starting a fight & you brought the only deadly weapon. Dick move meets dick move, somebody gets shot.
I am excusing it. That is exactly my mindset.

Somebody whacks me in the Achilles with a shopping cart? That's cool, fine, whatever.

Guy dives into a parking space I had my blinker on for? Super, that's swell, have a blessed day.

It's not a decision based on carrying or not. It has to do with avoiding confrontations, not getting killed, and not having to kill. Aside from the fact that, when I'm actually successful at this--damn, it is hard--man, I'm just so serene about everything. I feel a lot better.

Zimmerman was--and I hate talking about both the shooting and the halfwits involved--entirely different. He didn't willingly get into a confrontation, he simply failed at every single level to avoid one. It wasn't a confrontation or a fight, it was an ambush.

Zimmerman didn't shoot because he had to protect his gun. The immediate threat was that he was having his head slammed into the sidewalk. Each time could have been last second as a living non-vegetable.

If you want a case that's similar to this one in ways that matter, check out the Larry Hickey shooting. Same deal, except lethal force was justified.

Last edited by Wise_A; 07-22-2018 at 01:46 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #56  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:56 PM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 1,398
Liked 1,311 Times in 650 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It's rare for business surveillance cameras to also have audio . . .
I know, so how can anybody assume he was shouting. I did not get that take from the statement the GF provided.
  #57  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:00 PM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 1,398
Liked 1,311 Times in 650 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathloncoach View Post
How about stop yelling at my family? There are plenty of good parking spaces. Bully.
Where is the citation that he was yelling? We look really foolish when we make ignorant assumptions.
  #58  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:08 PM
Czechvar Czechvar is online now
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 195
Likes: 301
Liked 255 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Larry Hickey Shooting...

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/...%20Booklet.pdf
  #59  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:42 PM
ColbyBruce ColbyBruce is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,706
Likes: 1,190
Liked 6,350 Times in 2,160 Posts
Default

What I don’t understand about this shooting or the Zimmerman/Martin shooting is this: why were the deceased not allowed to “stand their ground”? Martin had truly done nothing, and this dead fellow MAY have pulled into a Handicapped space to go inside and bring out a handicapped person, or may have been disabled himself. It’s not like this second shooter was a doctor, right? No. But in both cases, somebody is graveyard dead and the party responsible is not charged.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #60  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:43 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 25,614
Likes: 30,928
Liked 22,159 Times in 10,789 Posts
Default I love it when more of the story comes out....

Quote:
Originally Posted by grinner View Post
This happened in my neck of the woods, and the local paper had a little more info on both the shooter and why he wasn’t charged.

The sheriff didn’t make the decision without input from the state prosecutor. He referred it to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor decided not to charge the shooter.

The shooter also has a history of “policing” the handicapped spot at this particular store and confronting people who park there without a tag. The paper quoted one individual who the shooter threatened to shoot a few months earlier:

“It wasn’t the first time he (the shop owner) saw Drejka (the shooter) in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot. The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.
"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

Drejka was also charged several years ago with brandishing his weapon, but the case never went to trial because the witness did not want to pursue the case.

Just FYI. The link to the local story is here:

No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space
It's like that Duck Boat tour owner that said they'd had no trouble like those people drowning in Branson, Missouri. Turns out he's had 2 fatal accidents in the past. I'm as guilty as anyone of taking a news story at face value but I try not to do that.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
  #61  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:52 PM
bohuggabee bohuggabee is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Default

just watched the video. the assailant doesn't appear to simply keep attacking like he could have or you'd assume would have in an attack justifying stand your ground. i know that if someone punches you then you can punch back, but i've never heard of someone shoving you so that means you can shoot them. i believe the gunman committed murder, i believe he was assaulted, but his life was not in danger. i think the gunman was pissed off, had a gun and shot someone to get back at them for being shoved.

i've been shoved like that before. i never fell down, but the guy kept coming at me and clearly wanted to fight. he put his hand around my neck and i stood there, grabbed my key and shoved it into his pressure point on his wrist. he backed off an left. i never thought he was worth killing. just a testosterone crazed dude that had a bad day...

you see that once the gun is pulled the assailant is willing to leave. i believe my situation is very similar to this one, and having witnessed a downgraded state of aggression when the weapon is revealed means the guy wasn't continuing the threat and it ceased at that moment. its not a what if scenario anymore. its a de-escalated event after the weapon is drawn, and he chose to shoot someone that stepped away from from him. committing murder.

Last edited by bohuggabee; 07-22-2018 at 03:05 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #62  
Old 07-22-2018, 03:36 PM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 1,398
Liked 1,311 Times in 650 Posts
Default

I posted this on another forum in regards to this incident.

I only care about three factors in this case.

There was a physical altercation

There was a shooting

So far that shooting has been ruled justified by the authorities

No matter what my opinion is it does not mean jack to the authorities, it is their ball game.
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #63  
Old 07-22-2018, 04:07 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,259
Likes: 2,052
Liked 2,976 Times in 1,266 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyBruce View Post
What I don’t understand about this shooting or the Zimmerman/Martin shooting is this: why were the deceased not allowed to “stand their ground”? Martin had truly done nothing, and this dead fellow MAY have pulled into a Handicapped space to go inside and bring out a handicapped person, or may have been disabled himself. It’s not like this second shooter was a doctor, right? No. But in both cases, somebody is graveyard dead and the party responsible is not charged.
Because "Stand Your Ground" is the media-friendly term for a statute which says "in a public place where you have the legal right to be, there is no duty or obligation to retreat before using deadly force in self-defense". Some states have it, others do not.

The deceased, both in Zimmerman and this case, was not acting in self-defense, as there was no overt threat. For instance, if Trayvon Martin, convinced he was being followed by Zimmerman, had turned around and used a lawfully-carried firearm against Zimmerman, he would be guilty of murder, since Zimmerman was not an immediate, unavoidable, grave threat.

Now, I understand why you'd think such a thing, because various...inexpert media sources make exactly that point about the deceased "standing their ground".

The way I like to think of it is that "SYG" is a sort of additional protection. In other words, you should retreat, regardless of what your legal obligation is. However, if deadly force becomes necessary, "SYG" protects you from the suggestion that you should have retreated, even though it wasn't a viable option.
  #64  
Old 07-22-2018, 04:16 PM
Protected One's Avatar
Protected One Protected One is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 2,371
Liked 3,399 Times in 1,353 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
I am approaching this as a disabled individual. I have obtained my permits because I felt like my disabilities advertised my vulnerability. The last thing I want to do is cross the proverbial line in error.

Personally, I prefer the idea of picking which hill I die on. From much of what I have read, it seems as though I can be justified in most justifiable self defense scenarios provided that I didn't instigate the confrontation.

In this instance, the deceased appears to have chosen to violate the law by parking in a handicapped parking spot. The shooter appears to have instigated a verbal altercation with the woman that the deceased appears to be trying to defend. Was it worth his life? Virtually any man worth his salt would come to the aid of his woman.

I have a problem with this shooting and the statement of no charges. In the chain of events, the shooter appears to be the instigator in my book. Yes, the instigator got knocked on his *$$, but where was the threat of imminent bodily harm? In many respects, the shooter has an established history of self appointed predatory enforcement of the handicapped parking space, and an apparent history of a predisposition to threaten bodily harm towards violators in the past.

Personally, I just can't see this shooting as being deemed justifiable considering his role in instigating the initial confrontation which does escalate out of control.
There are ways to "come to the aid of his woman" WITHOUT initiating physicality. He should have used them.

You might want to read Florida's wording of their stand your ground law. It specifically includes a line that says (I paraphrase) *even if the victim initiated the incident*. I discovered this during the Travon Martin shooting.
__________________
Stay protected my friends.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #65  
Old 07-22-2018, 04:17 PM
6518John's Avatar
6518John 6518John is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AR—Town and Country
Posts: 2,932
Likes: 42,144
Liked 8,307 Times in 2,083 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohuggabee View Post
i think the gunman was pissed off, had a gun and shot someone to get back at them for being shoved.
I think in that comment you just summed-up this whole stinking mess.
__________________
.44 Special is indeed!
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #66  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:10 PM
Robspeire Robspeire is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: East TN
Posts: 73
Likes: 59
Liked 56 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Sheriff Gualtieri began his law enforcement and public service career as a detention deputy working in the Pinellas County jail. After attending the police academy, he joined the Dunedin Police Department as a patrol officer and later rejoined the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office as a law enforcement deputy. Over the next 15 years, Sheriff Gualtieri served in many different components of the agency, including several years conducting domestic and international drug trafficking investigations as part of a DEA task force.

Sheriff Gualtieri earned his bachelor’s degree from Eckerd College in St. Petersburg and his law degree from Stetson University College of Law. After graduating from Stetson and being admitted to the Florida Bar, Sheriff Gualtieri entered private practice in Tampa, specializing in labor and employment defense.

Sheriff Gualtieri returned to the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office in 2006 as its general counsel and was appointed chief deputy (second in command) in 2008. Sheriff Gualtieri served in the dual role of general counsel and chief deputy until he became sheriff in 2011.


Seems like the Sheriff can't make up his mind whether he wants to be a LAWYER OR A Sherriff.
His duty is to arrest
  #67  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:30 PM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 1,398
Liked 1,311 Times in 650 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robspeire View Post
His duty is to arrest
His duty is to enforce the law, he is as the law is written. That is why it is called law enforcement.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #68  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:34 PM
bohuggabee bohuggabee is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Default

alot of people forget that stand your ground is there to protect people against severe bodily harm or death by the hands of another. simply shoving someone is not severe bodily harm. i've shoved shopping carts in the grocery store that almost hit me and i never shot someone... its not there to empower the fearful/hateful to commit murder. if you can not properly assess a threat and the level of a threat then you are not mentally competent to exercise the right and law of stand your ground.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #69  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:43 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 3,124
Liked 4,700 Times in 2,130 Posts
Default

Couple of things:

1) As usual, the Monday morning quarterbacks are out jumping to conclusions without the evidence required to do so. Most significantly, we have no knowledge of what was said and how it was said between the three parties involved here. That's critical in determining if this was clean or not; until we have it (and we may never), we can't say.

2) For those asking why SYG applies since the shooter was pushed off his feet -- SYG has nothing to do with the ability to retreat or lack thereof (or "standing" in the literal sense); it's the exact opposite, it removes the question of retreat altogether.

3) To clarify, the State attorney has NOT determined this a clean shoot; local law enforcement believes it meets the threshold for legal self-defense but is referring it up the chain to the State's attorney for final determination. Wait and see.

4) It's reported that many in local law enforcement and DA's offices resent new aspects of Florida's SYG laws that place the burden on the prosecution to prove in pre-trial that a shoot wasn't clean, rather than it being incumbent upon the defense to prove that it was, as it had been until recently. That's a lot more work for LEs and DAs, who perceive an uptick in bad faith shoots invoking SYG because the defense loses nothing when it's on the prosecution to prove otherwise. I suspect in a seemingly messy self-defense case like this, passing it up to the State's attorney sends the message from LE's and DA's "you, the governor and the state legislature changed the law, you do the work".
__________________
Pickpocket
  #70  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:48 PM
ColbyBruce ColbyBruce is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,706
Likes: 1,190
Liked 6,350 Times in 2,160 Posts
Default

Here in Georgia state law governs handicapped parking spaces. Does the state of Florida employ gun toting civilians to manage handicapped parking spaces?
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #71  
Old 07-22-2018, 05:55 PM
Walkingwolf's Avatar
Walkingwolf Walkingwolf is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 1,398
Liked 1,311 Times in 650 Posts
Default

Displaying anger on the internet is not a bright idea. It could come back to bite you.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #72  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:00 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 3,124
Liked 4,700 Times in 2,130 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
An incident happened just a month or so ago. Seems he doesn’t like folks who don’t look like him.
On what facts do you base this apparent assumption? Where do we know what Rick Kelly "looks" like, vis-a-vis the shooter and the decedent?
__________________
Pickpocket
  #73  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:04 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,142
Likes: 1,343
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,571 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
I am excusing it. That is exactly my mindset.

Somebody whacks me in the Achilles with a shopping cart? That's cool, fine, whatever.

Guy dives into a parking space I had my blinker on for? Super, that's swell, have a blessed day.

It's not a decision based on carrying or not. It has to do with avoiding confrontations, not getting killed, and not having to kill. Aside from the fact that, when I'm actually successful at this--damn, it is hard--man, I'm just so serene about everything. I feel a lot better.

Zimmerman was--and I hate talking about both the shooting and the halfwits involved--entirely different. He didn't willingly get into a confrontation, he simply failed at every single level to avoid one. It wasn't a confrontation or a fight, it was an ambush.

Zimmerman didn't shoot because he had to protect his gun. The immediate threat was that he was having his head slammed into the sidewalk. Each time could have been last second as a living non-vegetable.

If you want a case that's similar to this one in ways that matter, check out the Larry Hickey shooting. Same deal, except lethal force was justified.
I disagrre on Zim, always have. His shooting was justified but he caused it by pursuing a black guy into unknown circumstances, confontation was likely & it happenned. Neighborhood watch is not armed security in any community I am aware of. He brought a weapon to a confrontation just as surely as the guy in the parking space event, exactly the same thing except, the guy in the parking lot was not being beaten into an unconscious state & losing his gun.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
  #74  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:07 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 3,124
Liked 4,700 Times in 2,130 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robspeire View Post
When the deceased pushed the perp to the ground he should have followed thru and stomped him. Instead of being a target...
And in doing so you'd remove any doubt that deadly force was justified in stopping you.

Talk about getting it bass ackwards...
__________________
Pickpocket
  #75  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:08 PM
mnshutterbug's Avatar
mnshutterbug mnshutterbug is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SW MN
Posts: 151
Likes: 244
Liked 102 Times in 57 Posts
Default

In my opinion, anybody with that short of a fuse shouldn't be allowed to carry. Being shoved to the ground is no justification for taking someone's life. This sends a dangerous message to others carrying.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #76  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:12 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 5,142
Likes: 1,343
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,571 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
His duty is to enforce the law, he is as the law is written. That is why it is called law enforcement.
That is funny. We all know spirit of the law vs letter of the law. Arrest him, maybe, but to not arrest & then interpret syg, uh no, not his job either. Arrest, let the da or a grand jury decide. He did commit a homicide, that is not arguable. Justified or not, that is the question. Why carry a gun is such a huge responsibility. Anyone doing so needs to understamd use of force & how that all plays into the confrontation. At best, that was a simple assault, no deadly force response. Maybe the DA will step up.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #77  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:13 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
Member
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 3,124
Liked 4,700 Times in 2,130 Posts
Default

Let's be careful on re-litigating Zimmerman; it isn't the subject, doesn't really apply, always overheats and gets locked.
__________________
Pickpocket
  #78  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:21 PM
Retired Cop Retired Cop is offline
Banned
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 111
Likes: 13
Liked 68 Times in 40 Posts
Default

I am in my seventies now and I will shoot at any threat of life or serious bodily injury. Now who was it that said a .380 is anemic and can't kill you! The aggressor may have walked away but he didn't get far. That was one shot from a Kel Tek P3AT to the gut from what I can ascertain.
  #79  
Old 07-22-2018, 06:27 PM
s&wchad's Avatar
s&wchad s&wchad is offline
Moderator
Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Great Lakes State
Posts: 19,374
Likes: 3,179
Liked 6,817 Times in 1,683 Posts
Default

I watched the video and have my own opinion. I’ll keep it to myself...

We’re done here.
__________________
"I also cook."
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iowa Stand Your Ground + Other Changes walkinghorse 2nd Amendment Forum 1 02-26-2017 05:28 PM
Stand your ground laws smith revolver cop 2nd Amendment Forum 61 07-25-2013 03:28 PM
Group Wants W.Va. `Stand Your Ground' Law Nixed Pasifikawv 2nd Amendment Forum 3 07-24-2013 10:33 PM
Keep Fighting, We have to stand our Ground! italyguy01 The Lounge 4 01-28-2013 07:59 PM
Stand Your Ground Jlduke Concealed Carry & Self Defense 22 04-27-2012 09:44 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)