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Old 07-21-2018, 12:42 AM
Dvan34 Dvan34 is offline
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Default Florida Stand Your Ground Shooting

A video shows this fatal shooting in front of a store parking lot. An argument and fight over a handicapped parking space.


‘Stand your ground’ law protects shooter in deadly fight over parking space: sheriff

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Old 07-21-2018, 12:45 AM
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Things like this do not help us with the 2nd. Amendment at all. Another thing this individual did everything wrong after the shooting. Standing around waiting with his pistol in hand. Check it out. It may be declared self-defense but he should have used better judgment and diplomacy. There were other vacant spaces. I don't know how this will play out. The sheriff said it was a Stand Your Ground shooting and did not charge- but refereed the case to higher authority.

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Old 07-21-2018, 02:33 AM
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Ugh.

(1) Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And in this one, everybody's a winner.

(2) Where does "Stand Your Ground" come into play? Sure looked like he was knocked on his butt with no real option to retreat.

(3) Coincidentally, being knocked on your butt counts as a "position of disadvantage".

(4) It's hard to tell whether it's justified. On the one hand, the guy is down on the ground after having been blindsided. On the other, when he shoots, his attacker has stopped, and backed away. Even with the leeway given for these things being very fast-paced (for instance, if one shoot an attacker four times in the front, and as he falls, a fifth round strikes his back but isn't held against the shooter)...I dunno. Having the audio would certainly help.

(4) I wouldn't exactly say that putting one's gun away would make a ton of sense. Remember, at this point all he's seen is his assailant go back into the store. He doesn't know if the guy is dead, incapacitated, or arming himself.

(5) You guys know how I like to talk about praying your attacker survives? This is the perfect example of beatifying the deceased:

Quote:
Prior to Gualtieri’s announcement Friday, Jacobs told the newspaper that McGlockton died from a “wrongful death” as a result of Drejka’s actions.

“It’s a wrongful death,” she told the newspaper earlier Friday. “It’s messed up. Markeis is a good man … He was just protecting us, you know? And it hurts so bad.”
When somebody dies, they turn into an angel. Doesn't matter who they are, or what stupid thing they died doing.

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Old 07-21-2018, 04:36 AM
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As far as video & news let know, after shoving the shooter to the ground, the man was standing still with his hands along his waist or even in his pockets , thus not representing an actual threat to anybody. The shooter was not backed to the floor, but rather had the time to reach the kneeling position to draw, so that he could have stopped any further potential attack just by gun pointing, and fire only in the event of it. He might appear a troublemaker sticking his nose where it doesn't belong according to witnesses, as he doesn't seem directly interested in occupying a disabled parking himself. Deadly force does not appear that justified, but being respectful of parking rules (especially if disabled are involved) and not raising hands against anybody would just prevent these occurrences. A lot of people behave disrespectfully just thinking they cannot be shot for that, but sometimes they find the wrong person on their path. Events like this support people asking for stricter examination and rules to ccw licensing.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:40 AM
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A parking space? Wow. Some people just don't have a clue. A jury will take everything he owns..
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:57 AM
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I'm handicapped and I see this all of the time. Young, perfectly healthy people that will park in a handicapped space. I didn't notice it as much when it didn't matter.
Am I going to reproach someone about it. No. especially if I am carrying. But,,, He had every right to.

Now, Being blind sided by someone and knocked to the ground is serious. My next door neighbor was attacked exactly this way. He suffered Traumatic Brain Injury. Spent two weeks in ICU and will never have his life back as he and his family new it. So if someone knocks me down and doesn't retreat, and I mean retreat, and stays two steps away with his hands(weapons) out, then I'm going to shoot. Remember the attacker was not alone, And the person on the ground could not get up without losing all chance of defence.

It is truly an unfortunate situation but you had a person or persons that was willing to violate a parking law and willing to resort to violence when called on it. He was a bully and ran into someone not willing to be bullied.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:18 AM
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I don't see how this is a stand your ground case since the man was knocked to to ground and unable to retreat. I expect the prosecutor will be determining whether this was a justified use of force for self-defense but I'll be surprised if he says stand your ground applies. It only adds to the confusion about stand your ground laws that this sheriff seems to have misunderstood and misapplied it.

The dead man paid a very high price for his overly aggressive knock down of the man having an argument with his girlfriend. He was the initial aggressor.

The shooter exercised poor judgement, in my opinion, for engaging in a public argument while armed. Once the gun came out, I don't think we have enough info to determine if the shooting was justified, but I have my doubts.

Some people may think the 2 second delay between presenting the gun and pulling the trigger gave the shooter time to see the aggressor was backing off, but I don't think we can be sure of that. Also it could be that it took him that much time to present, aim, and fire.

Regarding someone's comment that this shooting was over a parking spot: no, it was not. The shooting was caused by being aggressively knocked to the ground.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:25 AM
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This may look illegal if you live somewhere behind the Blue Curtain. In Florida however, if you attack someone your life may be forfeit
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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Default BOTH WERE BULLIES IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
I'm handicapped and I see this all of the time. Young, perfectly healthy people that will park in a handicapped space. I didn't notice it as much when it didn't matter.
Am I going to reproach someone about it. No. especially if I am carrying. But,,, He had every right to.

Now, Being blind sided by someone and knocked to the ground is serious. My next door neighbor was attacked exactly this way. He suffered Traumatic Brain Injury. Spent two weeks in ICU and will never have his life back as he and his family new it. So if someone knocks me down and doesn't retreat, and I mean retreat, and stays two steps away with his hands(weapons) out, then I'm going to shoot. Remember the attacker was not alone, And the person on the ground could not get up without losing all chance of defence.

It is truly an unfortunate situation but you had a person or persons that was willing to violate a parking law and willing to resort to violence when called on it. He was a bully and ran into someone not willing to be bullied.
The armed handicapped parking spot vigilante berating a lone woman that wasn't even driving ='s bully to me.
A perfect storm of stupid.
These 2 threads need to be joined.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:58 AM
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When morons collide.....
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:02 AM
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Here is an article about this from Andrew Branca, a self-defense law expert.
Florida | Stand Your Ground | Self Defense
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:20 AM
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This happened in my neck of the woods, and the local paper had a little more info on both the shooter and why he wasn’t charged.

The sheriff didn’t make the decision without input from the state prosecutor. He referred it to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor decided not to charge the shooter.

The shooter also has a history of “policing” the handicapped spot at this particular store and confronting people who park there without a tag. The paper quoted one individual who the shooter threatened to shoot a few months earlier:

“It wasn’t the first time he (the shop owner) saw Drejka (the shooter) in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot. The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.
"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

Drejka was also charged several years ago with brandishing his weapon, but the case never went to trial because the witness did not want to pursue the case.

Just FYI. The link to the local story is here:

No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:26 AM
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This is why I have the mindset to not provoke anyone and mind my own business as I am not law enforcement. And, if I decide I must present my firearm, I am firing immediately as I have already determined it’s neccessary by drawing it from the holster. I’m not pointing a gun at anybody waiting to see what the effect is going to be.

Do not provoke anyone while armed. You can’t talk to most people in today’s society over a minor infraction unless you have the badge and authority to further pursue the matter because things will escalate. Mind your own business.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:37 AM
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The redirects aren’t working for me. Here’s the text from the Bradenton Herald. My opinion is with the “Morons Collide” Group...You notify the store manager or Police and let them do their jobs. Some poor Tow Truck Driver could have made $200 on this.

Quote:
BY RYAN CALLIHAN
rcallihan@bradenton.com
July 20, 2018 07:20 PM
A 47-year-old man who shot and killed someone over a parking space dispute will not face criminal charges, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri announced during a Friday afternoon press conference.

The Thursday afternoon incident falls under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, he said. Investigators say Michael Drejka fatally shot Markeis McGlockton, 28, after he was shoved to the ground. The altercation was captured on video.

“People have a right to stand their grand and they have a right to defend themselves when they believe they’re in harm,” Gualtieri said.

A “pretty significant yelling match” broke out when Drejka arrived at the Circle A Food Store at 1201 Sunset Point Rd. in Clearwater and saw that McGlockton’s girlfriend, 24-year-old Brittany Jacobs, had illegally parked her car in a handicap spot.

“There was no physical violence,” said Gualtieri. “There was no threats, but it was a disturbance that they were yelling at each other and he was complaining about her parking in the handicap spot.”

McGlockton, who was in the store with his 5-year-old son, exited the store, walked to Drejka and pushed him down to the ground. Gualtieri said the push had “great force.”

“McGlockton approached Drejka. He didn’t waste any time getting to him, and then he pushed him, but it isn’t just a push. He really slammed him to the ground,” Gualtieri explained.

Drejka, who is a lawful concealed carry permit holder, then reaches for his gun and points it at McGlockton, who begins to back away from him. Video surveillance captures Drejka firing his pistol and striking McGlockton in the chest.

McGlockton stumbled back into the store where he collapsed, according to a new release. He was pronounced dead at Morton Plant Hospital.

According to Gualtieri, Drejka was cooperative with deputies and told them that he was in fear and believed that he was going to be attacked again by McGlockton.

“He felt after being slammed to the ground that the next thing was that he was going to be further attacked by McGlockton and that he was focused on McGlockton’s lower body, really couldn’t see his hands, but he felt the next thing was that he was gonna be slammed again and that he’d be struck again and he was in fear.”

Gualtieri said the “stand your ground” law is clear and subjective and that this incident “is within the bookends” of the self-defense law, which was recently modified. He explained that the burden of proof for “stand your ground” entitlement used to be on the defendant but now the State Attorney must prove that the shooter is not entitled to a “stand your ground” defense.

The case will be referred to the State Attorney’s Office, Gualtieri noted.

“I’m not saying I agree with the [the law], but I don’t make that call,” said Gualtieri, who added that the roughly four seconds between when Drejka hits the ground and when he fires his weapon gives him pause.

Toward the end of the press conference, Gualtieri said the law has a range and that his department must work with the evidence it has and enforce the law.

“Maybe somebody could make the case that this guy could’ve handled this differently, but that’s why you’ve got a range and you’ve got bookends and you’re going to have things that fall toward one end of the bookend or the other, that aren’t squarely in the middle. I think there’s an argument that this falls toward one side of the bookend, but it doesn’t take it outside the bookend.”

Read more here: No arrest in “stand your ground” shooting, FL sheriff says | Bradenton Herald

Last edited by Czechvar; 07-21-2018 at 09:40 AM.
  #15  
Old 07-21-2018, 10:11 AM
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In my state, I’m pretty sure the county attorney would have charged him and let a jury decide. A couple reasons.

1 - As mentioned previously, it looks like the shooter started the confrontation.

2 - It’s questionable if it was a deadly force attack or just a simple assault.

3 - The guy that got shot was retreating.

It seems ambiguous enough, I think our county attorney would have prosecuted. But I’m not an attorney and I don’t live in Florida.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:33 AM
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Mistakes. HUGE mistakes by everyone involved. I would not want to be in the shooter's shoes right now. My opinion means absolutely nothing, and I only have the video to make judgement. But this does not look like a justified, self defense shooting to me. Unless there is more evidence that we don't know. Just my opinion.

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Old 07-21-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
I don't see how this is a stand your ground case since the man was knocked to to ground and unable to retreat. I expect the prosecutor will be determining whether this was a justified use of force for self-defense but I'll be surprised if he says stand your ground applies. It only adds to the confusion about stand your ground laws that this sheriff seems to have misunderstood and misapplied it.
Perhaps you don't understand "Stand your ground," at least not by Florida statutes.

776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

It says one has no legal requirement to retreat--even if possible or prudent--if one has the legal right to be there. The guy had a legal right to be there, whether standing or sitting on his butt. He could have retreated, but didn't.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
Perhaps you don't understand "Stand your ground," at least not by Florida statutes.

776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

It says one has no legal requirement to retreat--even if possible or prudent--if one has the legal right to be there. The guy had a legal right to be there, whether standing or sitting on his butt. He could have retreated, but didn't.
I think I understand "stand your ground" correctly. The question is whether the man was able to retreat once he was knocked down. You say he could have retreated, but how do you know that? It looks like he might have been in a physical position from which retreat would have been difficult, if not impossible.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:43 AM
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Judging from the standpoint of his decision to fire his weapon when he did, I think the shooter has left himself vulnerable to potential criminal prosecution and civil liability.

That said, I no longer live or work in FL nor have I been involved in a trial there in some years.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:43 AM
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Default MORE TWISTS THAN A PRETZEL.

Take a spin at the, who's the aggressor wheel. That tittle seems to have changed a few times throughout this event. From MY armchair it appears the deceased was driving as "it looked" like a tall male exiting the drivers seat & going into the store with the little kid. (poor little kid!!!) During the Sherriff's (?) statement something was mentioned of the state having to pay for the defendants future/potential legal fees??? Did I hear that right??? Does that go for criminal & civil as well??? WHAT A MESS. I WOULD THINK with the shooters history (if that is admissible) he would be toast & he would be in a better position if he had fired immediately. 2-4 seconds (whatever) does not SOUND like a long time, but as anyone who has experienced the time slowing down thing will attest, much can happen in 2-4 seconds. This event does NOT do us gun owners any favors.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:51 AM
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It's just a sad deal all the way around....

If one is a self appointed crossing guard or H/C parking attendant....
They might expect to get clock'd once in awhile. The shoot sure looks border line from here.....

Ya know the old sayin', that ’tis much more prudent to acquit two persons, tho’ actually guilty, than to pass sentence on one that is innocent



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Old 07-21-2018, 12:15 PM
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Default THAT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE.

[QUOTE=keith44spl;140107747]It's just a sad deal all the way around....

If one is a self appointed crossing guard or H/C parking attendant....
They might expect to get clock'd once in awhile. The shoot sure looks border line from here.....

Ya know the old sayin', that ’tis much more prudent to acquit two persons, tho’ actually guilty, than to pass sentence on one that is innocent

1 Of those involved will not be able to attend a trial, or anything else, PERMANENTLY.

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  #23  
Old 07-21-2018, 12:25 PM
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Default It's pretty terrible.....

It's pretty terrible that someone can get shot over a parking place. This is a pretty ugly situation. The violent way the man was attacked has some bearing, but I don't think he was in a fight for his life. On the other hand if I were pushed down like that on asphalt it would about kill me. A verbal argument should not have led up to this. But the plain fact is that he was violently attacked when a verbal exchange was called for which instantly changed the tone.

Either we have handicapped parking for those needing it or just let everybody walk the same distance. It's no use having special facilities if people ignore the reason for them being there and use them indiscriminately.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
I think I understand "stand your ground" correctly. The question is whether the man was able to retreat once he was knocked down. You say he could have retreated, but how do you know that? It looks like he might have been in a physical position from which retreat would have been difficult, if not impossible.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda is irrelevant. He had no legal obligation to move an inch under SYG law.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:03 PM
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I'm not saying it was right or wrong, but I wish everybody would stop saying that "A man was shot over a parking space."

The argument was over a parking space.

The shooting was over a physical assault.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:45 PM
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One point that may have contributed - It looks to me like the deceased said something once the "victim" drew his firearm.

I'd like to know what he said.

Regardless, if the information about the shooter is correct (habitual vigilante) I can see a successful civil suit against him.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinner View Post
This happened in my neck of the woods, and the local paper had a little more info on both the shooter and why he wasn’t charged.

The sheriff didn’t make the decision without input from the state prosecutor. He referred it to the prosecutor, and the prosecutor decided not to charge the shooter.

The shooter also has a history of “policing” the handicapped spot at this particular store and confronting people who park there without a tag. The paper quoted one individual who the shooter threatened to shoot a few months earlier:

“It wasn’t the first time he (the shop owner) saw Drejka (the shooter) in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot. The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.
"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

Drejka was also charged several years ago with brandishing his weapon, but the case never went to trial because the witness did not want to pursue the case.

Just FYI. The link to the local story is here:

No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space
An incident happened just a month or so ago. Seems he doesn’t like folks who don’t look like him.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:53 PM
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Doesn't matter what the argument was about, parking space or the price of bread, who cares.
I don't think this is a "stand your ground" case because the shooter didn't have the choice to leave or stand his ground.
I think this is legal self defense. The Sheriff said there was one shot fired, I disagree, I'm seeing at least two shots, the last one connected. The dead guy had not started backing away yet when the first round was fired, he was pulling his pants up and leaning in.
It's definitely a close one to call though. Without the gun, the way I see it playing out is the older guy crabwalking backwards across the parking lot on his *** while the younger guy kicks him multiple times. With that being the alternate outcome, I think this is a good shot.
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinner;

The shooter also has a history of “policing” the handicapped spot at this particular store and confronting people who park there without a tag. The paper quoted one individual who the shooter threatened to shoot a few months earlier:

“It wasn’t the first time he (the shop owner) saw Drejka (the shooter) in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot. The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.
"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

Drejka was also charged several years ago with brandishing his weapon, but the case never went to trial because the witness did not want to pursue the case.

Just FYI. The link to the local story is here:

[url=http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/No-arrest-in-fatal-shooting-during-argument-over-handicap-parking-space_170174041
No arrest in fatal shooting during argument over handicap parking space[/url]
The recent shooter, then made a threat & brandished a weapon! Where was Barney to NIP IT IN THE BUD!
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:20 PM
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Our opinions on whether or not this is SYG are irrelevant. The State Attorney says it is and he isn't going to prosecute.

I've said it before but things like this are why I don't trifle with strangers

ETA I read in another article that the State's Attorney has not decided whether or not to prosecute
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Breakaway500 View Post
A parking space? Wow. Some people just don't have a clue. A jury will take everything he owns..
There is probably someone killed over a parking spot in NYC every couple of years ..

Its not worth my life .. I'll just go down here and park !!
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
There is probably someone killed over a parking spot in NYC every couple of years ..

Its not worth my life .. I'll just go down here and park !!
AND IN CENTRAL ILLONOISE AS WELL. In Chicago??? Get a stopwatch.

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Old 07-21-2018, 06:04 PM
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Fun question: you pop into the Quik-E-Stop and to grab a quick quart of milk. When you come out, a man is standing outside shouting at your wife and child.

Who's the aggressor?
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:35 PM
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Fun question: you pop into the Quik-E-Stop and to grab a quick quart of milk. When you come out, a man is standing outside shouting at your wife and child.

Who's the aggressor?
The man who assaults the other man.
I don't like someone shouting at my wife any more than the next guy but I would not just walk up and knock the guy down without giving him the opportunity to leave the situation first. I would like to tell you it's because I'm a stand-up guy who believes in a fair fight, but the real reason is it's generally illegal to just walk up and knock someone on their back side, even if they are belligerent.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:52 PM
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I wouldn't have pushed the guy to the ground. I also wouldn't shoot someone who pushed me to the ground. The pusher seems to have backed off after the push. I'm shocked the shooter isn't being prosecuted.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:41 PM
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AS I said earlier in a post. I'm not going to approach anyone parking in a handicapped spot illegally. Especially if I am carrying. One, I don't want the drama. Two I don't want to shoot anyone. Three I don't want to get knocked on my butt. Four I might be wrong. That's a big might be.

Having said that I have used a different method. I took photos of the vehicle and the tag. Then I post them on Facebook. Actually I have only done this once. It was a tree felling service and the driver was quite healthy. I also forwarded a copy of the photo to the company's email address and their Facebook page. I can't remember if I even got a reply and I didn't need one. If it were an employee driving I'm sure enough was said.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:25 PM
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When the deceased pushed the perp to the ground he should have followed thru and stomped him. Instead of being a target.
Shooter should be charged with murder.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:42 PM
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Where is the audio of the shouting?
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by diyj98 View Post
I wouldn't have pushed the guy to the ground. I also wouldn't shoot someone who pushed me to the ground. The pusher seems to have backed off after the push. I'm shocked the shooter isn't being prosecuted.
I'm not sure if this "no prosecution" thing will last. I'm guessing ANYONE that can pass the buck on this much publicized hot potato will pass the buck, & it ends up a LET A JURY DECIDE. You know what they say about stuff rolling down hill. The Jury is at the bottom of the hill.

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Old 07-22-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
Where is the audio of the shouting?
It's rare for business surveillance cameras to also have audio . . .
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:18 AM
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What a mess, a self serving jerk who parks in handicap spots runs into a self important jerk who has taken it upon himself to enforce handicap parking. Couple of egos here.

Parking spot enforcer was a jerk who was going beyond the norm true. But, just because somebody is out of line doesn't mean you can knock them down. Once you physically engage someone in a violent manner you are putting yourself in a position where they are likely to defend their person in a violent manner. In my opinion they should be legally able to do that to what ever point they feel necessary. Attacking people, even when they are in the wrong, is still an attack.

I am bothered by the shooter being of the mind set that he is somehow the parking police and has decided to enforce it and do so carrying. I call this the Wyatt Earp syndrome. Some cops are effected by it to.

The whole handicap parking thing is out of hand. I just came back from a short job there. !/2 of every parking lot is handicap parking. Joke is they are all being used as it seems thee threshold for getting a placard is real low. Got ingrown toe nails and your in. Saw a young kid working for me had a handicap sticker. He was vert healthy and active working. I asked him what the deal was. Post Traumatic Stress. I got it that that's real, but how does that effect your ability to walk? Can I get one because I have VA disability for severe hearing loss?

My youngest son has cerebral palsy, it mostly effects his legs which are twisted and he can walk poorly. He didn't use handicap parking because "those are for people who need them" for a long time. He does now because of the abuse. I have heard him mumble about some of the people who drive up with there sticker, hop out of their rig and sprint for the door.

Rant over
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:13 AM
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A young healthy guy parking in a handicap parking spot is a total d!ck move and then slamming a dude to the ground who's calling him out on it is just unbelievable. But the shooter definitely shot him out of anger IMO, not for fear of his life. The jerk didn't deserve to die.

Just a nightmare situation anyway you look at it.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
What a mess, a self serving jerk who parks in handicap spots runs into a self important jerk who has taken it upon himself to enforce handicap parking. Couple of egos here.

Parking spot enforcer was a jerk who was going beyond the norm true. But, just because somebody is out of line doesn't mean you can knock them down. Once you physically engage someone in a violent manner you are putting yourself in a position where they are likely to defend their person in a violent manner. In my opinion they should be legally able to do that to what ever point they feel necessary. Attacking people, even when they are in the wrong, is still an attack.

I am bothered by the shooter being of the mind set that he is somehow the parking police and has decided to enforce it and do so carrying. I call this the Wyatt Earp syndrome. Some cops are effected by it to.

The whole handicap parking thing is out of hand. I just came back from a short job there. !/2 of every parking lot is handicap parking. Joke is they are all being used as it seems thee threshold for getting a placard is real low. Got ingrown toe nails and your in. Saw a young kid working for me had a handicap sticker. He was vert healthy and active working. I asked him what the deal was. Post Traumatic Stress. I got it that that's real, but how does that effect your ability to walk? Can I get one because I have VA disability for severe hearing loss?

My youngest son has cerebral palsy, it mostly effects his legs which are twisted and he can walk poorly. He didn't use handicap parking because "those are for people who need them" for a long time. He does now because of the abuse. I have heard him mumble about some of the people who drive up with there sticker, hop out of their rig and sprint for the door.

Rant over
I was arriving at Sam's Club and had to wait for an elderly couple. The old man could only move a few inches at a time but was obviously hustling for all he was worth.

I normally park out in the boondocks, for numerous reasons, it took me a few minutes to get close to the entrance. The couple had finished loading and the wife had apparently just helped her husband get in the driver's seat. I asked if I could assist her, getting settled, she gratefully accepted. These people (and your son) are what handicapped spaces are for.

A pox upon the sloths who abuse them.

Still, I won't try to take the law into my own hands.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:28 AM
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Some people shouldn't carry a gun. Imo, the shooring wasnt justified, where is the deadly force/eq force, but my opinion doesnt matter. If the DA says gtg, then the shooter was very,very lucky. As when Leo have a bad shooting, being a dick or being stupid should not be a death sentence.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It's rare for business surveillance cameras to also have audio . . .
And often rarer for them to actually work.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:47 AM
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When the deceased pushed the perp to the ground he should have followed thru and stomped him. Instead of being a target.
Shooter should be charged with murder.
Nice. Endorsing assault and battery?

How about "Sorry, won't park there again."

No, physical altercations is so much better for all.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:01 PM
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Was the shooter handicapped or just looking for an argument with a woman and her three small kids? Taking 3 small children anywhere handicaps you.

The woman lied about no other spaces available. So why didn’t the shooter take one of those spots and shut up? I would be very unhappy if under these circumstances some guy was yelling at my wife/whatever and our 3 small kids.

Too bad the victim cut the guy a break and only shoved him away from harassing his family. These vermin bullies love yelling at women. The victim could have knocked him out cold. I might have. And he would have had a boot in his face before his gun pointed at me.

I was recently on the receiving end of a road rage while slumped in the front seat while my 18 year old daughter drove. The guy blocked her in and started yelling. I jumped out of the car, I am a very formidable looking guy. When he saw me and listened to me call him all kinds of cowardly names his wife jumped out of the car and apologized profusely.

Yes my Glock 29 was IWB at 3:00 and ready if he motioned towards a weapon. My gun was concealed.

Menace a guys family - expect bad things to happen.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:03 PM
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Nice. Endorsing assault and battery?

How about "Sorry, won't park there again."

No, physical altercations is so much better for all.
How about stop yelling at my family? There are plenty of good parking spaces. Bully.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:06 PM
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Wink YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET.

Quote:
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When the deceased pushed the perp to the ground he should have followed thru and stomped him. Instead of being a target.
Shooter should be charged with murder.
EXACTLY the Billy bad Boy mindset that got him killed. Sure MAYBE he'd still be alive & only in jail for murder or aggravated assault. Any priors, add on some more time. If the guy on the ground WAS ABLE to shoot, he would certainly (???) have had cause for S/D & not be going thru this ordeal. That ranks right up there with some of the WORST IDEAS EVER. Turning a VERBAL altercation into a physical one??? How did that work out?

Last edited by nachogrande; 07-22-2018 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hostler View Post
The man who assaults the other man.
I don't like someone shouting at my wife any more than the next guy but I would not just walk up and knock the guy down without giving him the opportunity to leave the situation first. I would like to tell you it's because I'm a stand-up guy who believes in a fair fight, but the real reason is it's generally illegal to just walk up and knock someone on their back side, even if they are belligerent.
Do you just wait for this guy to hit your wife before you intervene? I dunno.
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