Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-10-2018, 04:53 PM
filipows filipows is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Eastern Washington
Posts: 104
Likes: 50
Liked 57 Times in 26 Posts
Default Real SD incident and aftermath

I was following this story from the beginning. I read the news reports and watched local station video coverage.

The young woman in the interview was involved an SD incident back in Feb. I think she is very brave and admire her courage to share the details.

FWIW if you want to get some insight into the before during and after take a look. Runs almost 20 min but is interesting and insightful.

YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-10-2018, 04:59 PM
Rocket3 Rocket3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 225
Likes: 86
Liked 126 Times in 68 Posts
Default

I agree, that is one brave young lady.
I gave a small amount to her gofundme page.

Last edited by handejector; 09-10-2018 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 09-10-2018, 05:05 PM
filipows filipows is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Eastern Washington
Posts: 104
Likes: 50
Liked 57 Times in 26 Posts
Default

I did a donation as well. Last Feb and again recently.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2018, 05:46 PM
hostler hostler is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southcentral PA
Posts: 487
Likes: 140
Liked 828 Times in 305 Posts
Default

She's on a motorcycle forum I frequent.
I'm certainly glad she was able to defend herself but that.whole situation is one she,or the dead guy, could've and should've avoided. Both partys were unwilling to just leave it go before it escalated.
When I'm on my motorcycle I try to avoid contact with other people even if it means swallowing my pride.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 09-11-2018, 12:35 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

We have no clue of facts of this incident. We won't know what happened until cops conclude their investigation. I've read that her vulgar language escalated this shooting, but it's hearsay until cops release the conclusion of their investigation.

So far, all we've heard his her side of this incident. My guess is she's motivated to embellish her side.

If cops find her culpable and the DA prosecutes her, that'd be a huge clue that we don't know facts.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 09-11-2018, 12:38 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

The deciding factor: at the time she used deadly force, was it reasonable to conclude that her life was in imminent danger or she was in imminent danger of great bodily injury?

Was the deceased in possession of any type of deadly weapon?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 09-11-2018, 05:35 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 5,125
Likes: 2,205
Liked 9,755 Times in 3,146 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
The deciding factor: at the time she used deadly force, was it reasonable to conclude that her life was in imminent danger or she was in imminent danger of great bodily injury?

Was the deceased in possession of any type of deadly weapon?
A car, fists and feet are deadly weapons. With in arms reach it would be easy to kill some one with a sharp #2 pencil.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:01 AM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
Likes: 101
Liked 453 Times in 187 Posts
Default

I watched the video and looked up a couple articles. It doesn’t look like she was exactly the innocent kid selling Girl Scout cookies that got attacked. She was as much a part of instigating the fight as the guy that shot. From stuff I’ve seen where I live, because she was part of instigating the conflict, I suspect here she would have been charged with manslaughter or similar. No telling what a jury would have done.

I think the best lesson from the video is - don’t flip people off and swear at them if you’re stuck in traffic. It might end up in a physical confrontation with you getting a beat down.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 09-11-2018 at 08:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:31 AM
The Big D The Big D is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 851
Liked 1,488 Times in 578 Posts
Default ?????

How about her gun being stolen FROM HER 'VEHICLE.' some time after the incident? I would not leave a gun unsecured....EVER!!!! Understand it has nothing to do with the incident but one would think it's quite stupid to leave a gun in your presumably unattended vehicle...in her situation, at least. And wonder if said 'vehicle' was a motorcycle?

Her demeanor will likely get her in hot water down the road...

Be safe.

PS:

The $6000.00 ambulance ride...because they had to use lights and sirens...raises questions in my mind. The $3000.00 fee to move ahead of others in the ER raises similar questions. Both seem waaaaaaay outta whack...and what ER bases the care queue on who pays most?

Last edited by The Big D; 09-11-2018 at 08:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:53 AM
Old cop Old cop is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,741
Likes: 1,408
Liked 8,871 Times in 2,651 Posts
Default

I watched the video and came away with a stark reminder that engaging in road rage, regardless of how right you think you are, is NOT worth it. The best thing to do is ignore these idiots and go on about your business.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:16 AM
eb07 eb07 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 2,028
Liked 3,985 Times in 1,022 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
We have no clue of facts of this incident. We won't know what happened until cops conclude their investigation. I've read that her vulgar language escalated this shooting, but it's hearsay until cops release the conclusion of their investigation.

So far, all we've heard his her side of this incident. My guess is she's motivated to embellish her side.

If cops find her culpable and the DA prosecutes her, that'd be a huge clue that we don't know facts.

Vulgar language under her helmet on a highway? Was this guy the bionic man? Someone had to get out of their car and into her face for that to happen. She was stopped in traffic and attacked.

FYI all charges dropped. Clean shoot. She is dealing with medical bills now from her attack. The road rager is now dead and both his family and the this girl is affected for life from his poor decisions. STAY IN YOUR CAR! There is no reason to get out. Getting flipped off is NO reason to resort to physical violence.

As a motorcycle rider for over 30 years I have found that cars get ultra aggressive for no reason. This guy thought he could bully a small girl rider and he thought wrong. Yeah she might have flipped him off but attempting to use your car as a deadly weapon against motorcyclists is not the same as getting flipped off.

The man was 60 years old with a wife in the car What was he thinking? He should know better. Acting like an immature 18 year old getting out of his car to start a fight with a woman half his size. Really?

Boxed her in, Threw the first punch: Motorcyclist Not Charged in Washington Road Rage Incident

Last edited by eb07; 09-11-2018 at 09:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:29 AM
-db-'s Avatar
-db- -db- is offline
US Veteran
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4,375
Likes: 12,750
Liked 5,009 Times in 1,606 Posts
Default

There should be a warning for the video regarding her filthy language.
__________________
SWCA #2842
SWHF #448
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2018, 04:13 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,741
Likes: 1,408
Liked 8,871 Times in 2,651 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by -db- View Post
There should be a warning for the video regarding her filthy language.

It seems like the F word has worked its way into our everyday lexicon much to my chagrin. There was a time when this term was reserved for the lockerroom, an alley or some other place away from common earshot. If we work at it we may have a shot at returning to a time of polite discourse.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2018, 04:55 PM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
Likes: 101
Liked 453 Times in 187 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
It seems like the F word has worked its way into our everyday lexicon much to my chagrin. There was a time when this term was reserved for the lockerroom, an alley or some other place away from common earshot.
True, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
If we work at it we may have a shot at returning to a time of polite discourse.
My experience is millennial women swear more than men. Pretty much like the woman in the video. The reason F bombs were limited to "guy areas" was because women objected to it. Now, young women use it more than guys. Pretty sure that boat has sailed and isn't coming back.
__________________
Vegan by proxy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:24 PM
Old cop Old cop is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,741
Likes: 1,408
Liked 8,871 Times in 2,651 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
True, but...


My experience is millennial women swear more than men. Pretty much like the woman in the video. The reason F bombs were limited to "guy areas" was because women objected to it. Now, young women use it more than guys. Pretty sure that boat has sailed and isn't coming back.
I believe you’re right about the use of language by young women but maybe, just maybe if we all try it could turn around. An example would be the person who interviewed the young woman shooter asking her to curb her language for the sake of the video’s audience.

We have a young adult grandson who likes to drop the F Bomb now and then but we just don’t allow it and correct him. I’ve told him the word does not shock me but if he respects his grandparents (us) we don’t allow that in our presence. It’s working . . . . .
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Last edited by Old cop; 09-12-2018 at 08:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:01 PM
Jack Flash's Avatar
Jack Flash Jack Flash is online now
SWCA Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,132
Likes: 17,716
Liked 6,441 Times in 2,430 Posts
Default

After watching the video, it is pretty obvious that if she is lying, there should be a boat load of witnesses to contradict her. After all, it was bumper to bumper traffic.

It may have been hard to hear and determine who dropped the most F-bombs, but if the guy grabbed her by the helmet and was banging her head against the concrete median, that would be pretty easy to confirm via witness statements.

And if that was the case, I would say she had to shoot to save her life.
__________________
They lack our altruism.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:11 AM
adwjc adwjc is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 782
Likes: 5,868
Liked 633 Times in 312 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
The deciding factor: at the time she used deadly force, was it reasonable to conclude that her life was in imminent danger or she was in imminent danger of great bodily injury?

Was the deceased in possession of any type of deadly weapon?
EMP3,

did you ever hear of disparity of force? She was slight female, he was 6ft plus, 200lb male.

She was at a disadvantage, he had her helmet in his grasp, swinging her around, slamming into the concrete. If her account is accurate, she was actually very restrained in her response to his aggression.
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:05 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adwjc View Post
EMP3,

did you ever hear of disparity of force? She was slight female, he was 6ft plus, 200lb male.

She was at a disadvantage, he had her helmet in his grasp, swinging her around, slamming into the concrete. If her account is accurate, she was actually very restrained in her response to his aggression.

You're intimating the use of force continuum. It won't apply if she had escalated mutual combat to deadly force.

If she had a motorcycle helmet on, she'll be hard pressed to justify responding to her head hitting a concrete median with deadly force.

I don't know many FACTS here, but what I do know, which might not be factual, indicates she could be in jeopardy of manslaughter.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:06 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
How about her gun being stolen FROM HER 'VEHICLE.' some time after the incident? I would not leave a gun unsecured....EVER!!!! Understand it has nothing to do with the incident but one would think it's quite stupid to leave a gun in your presumably unattended vehicle...in her situation, at least. And wonder if said 'vehicle' was a motorcycle?

Her demeanor will likely get her in hot water down the road...

Be safe.

PS:

The $6000.00 ambulance ride...because they had to use lights and sirens...raises questions in my mind. The $3000.00 fee to move ahead of others in the ER raises similar questions. Both seem waaaaaaay outta whack...and what ER bases the care queue on who pays most?

If she left her gun under her motorcycle and claimed it was stolen, it would arouse suspicion.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:10 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
A car, fists and feet are deadly weapons. With in arms reach it would be easy to kill some one with a sharp #2 pencil.

You watch too many movies.

How a object is used determines whether it would be considered deadly and whether deadly force would be justified.

I wouldn't recommend that you bust a cap on a dude holding a pencil.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:18 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

I live in the Greater LA region. So Cal freeways are more often parking lots with endless red lights (brake lights). From my experience, people cause their own road rage. Squeezing in front of a car believing it's going to quicken arrival time is stupid. Flipping people off is stupid. What the hell is that gonna resolve?

Lots of morons in So Cal have no clue of how to drive. I had a woman lose it because she had no clue of a the purpose of a two-way left turn lane: California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH SS 21460.5 | FindLaw She got out of her car and photo'd my license plate. I tried to explain that I had completed a legal left turn. She thought she owned the roadway. She was beyond irate and irrational. Law and reason didn't apply to her. I blew her off. I remained composed. She had so far lost it that she'll never find it.

The idea is to avoid using any force.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:21 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

I don't think the woman involved was an innocent victim. I think she escalated the incident, claimed deadly force was necessary because her helmet protected head was banged against a concrete median, and she willing engaged.

I expect that she won't fare well in the assured civil suit.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:00 AM
Jack Flash's Avatar
Jack Flash Jack Flash is online now
SWCA Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,132
Likes: 17,716
Liked 6,441 Times in 2,430 Posts
Default

A stronger and larger person who is jerking / twisting a smaller framed person around by the helmet could break the smaller person's neck. Or strangle her.

Also, the helmet can only do so much. She claims the strap was choking her and the repeated head banging gave her a concussion. This latter injury should be verifiable from her emergency room medical records.

If she had behaved differently, it's possible the incident would not have happened. The same thing can be said about the deceased. No one here was an angel. F-bombs and fingers did not help the situation, but they do not excuse a violent assault.

The prosecutor will have to go through all the witness statements, physical evidence, and medical records to sort this out. Whoever pushed or head butted first will be important, but my take is that once he grabbed her by the helmet it became a violent assault and she was not obligated to wait around to see how bad it might get.
__________________
They lack our altruism.

Last edited by Jack Flash; 09-13-2018 at 08:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:14 AM
dougb1946 dougb1946 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern MN
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 103
Liked 1,714 Times in 657 Posts
Default

The difference between hitting a head against concrete and hitting a head with a concrete block is not too great. Zimmerman got away with his shooting because his head was being smashed into a sidewalk and the jury decided that was life threatening.
Road rage is not rational. Rule one is don't engage. Distance is good. Arguing doesn't work because nobody is listening. Dashcams and maybe pepper spray or a really big dog may help, but words seem to just cause more anger.
Laws of physics prove that motorcycles tend to lose rage contests.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:25 AM
dr. K dr. K is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 206
Likes: 724
Liked 195 Times in 106 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post

PS:

The $6000.00 ambulance ride...because they had to use lights and sirens...raises questions in my mind. The $3000.00 fee to move ahead of others in the ER raises similar questions. Both seem waaaaaaay outta whack...and what ER bases the care queue on who pays most?
Ive had patients who have had to go into collections or start multi-month payment plans over the astronomical fees for NON-emergency ambulance rides. As for ERs, hows $100+ sound for a bag of saline (salt water) for your IV?. Not uncommon at all. Healthcare has become a serious racket.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:43 AM
Ziggy2525 Ziggy2525 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
Likes: 101
Liked 453 Times in 187 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. K View Post
I’ve had patients who have had to go into collections or start multi-month payment plans over the astronomical fees for NON-emergency ambulance rides. As for ERs, how’s $100+ sound for a bag of saline (salt water) for your IV?. Not uncommon at all. Healthcare has become a serious racket.
There’s no doubt about the outrageousness of medical costs, especially ER costs.

The thing that doesn’t pass the sniff test here is being charged a higher rate for an ambulance ride when they use lights and sirens than if they didn’t. Same with paying to move to the head of an ER queue. Pretty hard to imagine an experienced ER triage nurse saying “$3,000, sure, hop right in front of that guy having the MI.”

Just sayin
__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Last edited by Ziggy2525; 09-13-2018 at 08:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:08 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post
A stronger and larger person who is jerking / twisting a smaller framed person around by the helmet could break the smaller person's neck. Or strangle her.

Also, the helmet can only do so much. She claims the strap was choking her and the repeated head banging gave her a concussion. This latter injury should be verifiable from her emergency room medical records.

If she had behaved differently, it's possible the incident would not have happened. The same thing can be said about the deceased. No one here was an angel. F-bombs and fingers did not help the situation, but they do not excuse a violent assault.

The prosecutor will have to go through all the witness statements, physical evidence, and medical records to sort this out. Whoever pushed or head butted first will be important, but my take is that once he grabbed her by the helmet it became a violent assault and she was not obligated to wait around to see how bad it might get.
Sounds like you're rationalizing your support for her before knowing facts.

From what I know, which isn't much, her account arouses suspicion.

Was her life in imminent danger? Was she in danger of imminent great bodily injury? I don't think that either will survive investigation.

She willingly got into a fight, was losing a fight she willingly entered, killed a man, and is trying to hide behind self-defense when she might've caused the confrontation.

Do you honestly believe that she had to kill the deceased? We won't know until cops finish and release their investigation.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:09 AM
eb07 eb07 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 2,028
Liked 3,985 Times in 1,022 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
I don't think the woman involved was an innocent victim. I think she escalated the incident, claimed deadly force was necessary because her helmet protected head was banged against a concrete median, and she willing engaged.

I expect that she won't fare well in the assured civil suit.

How so? It was over as far as she was concerned. She was just stopped in traffic then the attacker escalated it and got out of vehicle. Then the attacker escalated it and layed hands first. Tell me exactly how she escalated it? She is the victim. Period. The Police and DA apparently thought so as well.

Attacker was twice her size. Attacker began using extreme force. All witness statements supported her story and DA called it a good case of self defense. No charges.

Sad part is wife sat back and allowed it to happen. Didn't try to stop husband who somehow was a 60 year old acting like he was in high school. Now he's gone because of his lack of self control, immaturity, and lack of respect for someone elses person and right not to be assaulted.

He could have just ignored it and been alive today. People get in cars and think they own the road and lose self control. That is not her problem. She didn't: make physical contact or harm anyone.

Words and fingers do not justify assault. EVER You shouldn't get out of your vehicle EVER. She escalated nothing.

Last edited by eb07; 09-13-2018 at 09:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #29  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:10 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougb1946 View Post
The difference between hitting a head against concrete and hitting a head with a concrete block is not too great. Zimmerman got away with his shooting because his head was being smashed into a sidewalk and the jury decided that was life threatening.
Road rage is not rational. Rule one is don't engage. Distance is good. Arguing doesn't work because nobody is listening. Dashcams and maybe pepper spray or a really big dog may help, but words seem to just cause more anger.
Laws of physics prove that motorcycles tend to lose rage contests.
Zimmerman and this incident are very far from synonymous.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:11 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
How so? It was over as far as she was concerned. They had some worlds then she was just stopped in traffic then the attacker escalated it and got out of vehicle. Then the attacker layed hands first. Tell me exactly how she escalated it? She is the victim. Period. The Police and DA apparently thought so as well.

Attacker was twice her size. Attacker began using extreme force. All witness statements supported her story and DA called it a good case of self defense.

Sad part is wife sat back and allowed it to happen. Didn't try to stop husband who somehow was a 60 year old acting like he was in high school. Now he's gone.

Words and fingers do not justify assault. EVER You shouldn't get out of your vehicle EVER. She escalate nothing.

His getting out of his car justified her killing him?

I think cops & the DA's office will disagree with you.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:15 AM
EMP3 EMP3 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: God Bless the USA!
Posts: 80
Likes: 54
Liked 63 Times in 28 Posts
Default

This is a classic example of why people ought to withhold opinion until cops complete and release their investigation.

I wouldn't want to be her.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:15 AM
eb07 eb07 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 2,028
Liked 3,985 Times in 1,022 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
His getting out of his car justified her killing him?

I think cops & the DA's office will disagree with you.
He boxed her in with car
He got out of car
He punched her in head

ESCALATION

Justified defending yourself

She defended herself.

THEN HE THREW HER DOWN HE CLIMBED ON TOP OF HER SMASHED HER HEAD INTO MEDIAN

she was then justified in using force to stop the threat as this raging idiot was now threatening her life

By the way...... No charges. Good Shoot.

Motorcyclist Not Charged in Washington Road Rage Incident

A female motorcyclist who killed a man in self-defense during a road rage incident on Feb 8 in Washington state will not be charged according to authorities. Aubry Bowlin was riding home from work on Interstate 5 in Tacoma, Washington, when the incident occurred.

Where have you been? They totally agreed with me.

What kind of person defends a 60 year old man who knows better who assaults a 100lb woman while his wife watches? Is this where we are at as a society?


Better story:

No Murder Charge In I-5 Road Rage Death | Puyallup, WA Patch

According to the prosecutor's office, it was Jones who instigated the altercation. He was angry at how Bowlin was driving her motorcycle, witnesses told police, and so he boxed her in with his SUV and started a fight.

"The fight that followed was initiated by Jones. At some point, Bowlin head butted Jones, who then drove Bowlin's head into the jersey barrier before taking her to the ground. Bowlin shot Jones once in the chest when he attempted to climb on top of her," the prosecutor's office wrote in a press release.

Another

Prosecutors: no charges for woman shot motorist in Washington State - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

Last edited by eb07; 09-13-2018 at 09:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:52 AM
badge badge is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pa.
Posts: 696
Likes: 622
Liked 890 Times in 371 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
We have no clue of facts of this incident. We won't know what happened until cops conclude their investigation. I've read that her vulgar language escalated this shooting, but it's hearsay until cops release the conclusion of their investigation.

So far, all we've heard his her side of this incident. My guess is she's motivated to embellish her side.

If cops find her culpable and the DA prosecutes her, that'd be a huge clue that we don't know facts.
" Embellish ",.... really? It's a news account and probable derived from Police News releases. If true it sounds to me to be self defense. If not, she will incur the consequences.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:07 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,983
Likes: 3,869
Liked 13,650 Times in 4,655 Posts
Default

Sounds to me like we know the outcome . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:28 PM
eb07 eb07 is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 2,028
Liked 3,985 Times in 1,022 Posts
Default

Sorry if I was being a little heated on this issue. I have ridden motorcycles since I got my cert at Kirtland AFB in 1989 so 29 years and still going. California was the craziest allowing lane splitting, which I never did while mobile but did often in stopped traffic. It pisses people off. People get rage issues in vehicles.

I have had idiots tailgate me, cut me off, flip me off, try to run me off the road, etc simply because they are angry that I am more agile in traffic or ahead of them.

My guess is mr. tough guy got out because she was 5 foot nothing and 100lbs. Figured he would bully her. He wouldn't have done that with most of the people I ride with. He messed with the wrong girl and he lost. The fact that his wife said nothing tells me she was submissive and that's how he liked his women because if I did that my 5 foot nothing 100lb wife would have grabbed me by the ear and dragged me back in the car in front of everyone. But he liked to push women around and he tried again. His wife sat submissively in the car while he was beating on a way smaller woman.

Bottom line is even if she flipped him off or called him a cuss word, that still does not give him the right to block her in, preventing her a means of escape and then getting out and laying hands on her. He was wrong 100% not to mention I was raised to never lay hands on a woman period.

So yeah, I am not saying he deserved to die, but actions have consequences and that girl as crude and millennial as she may be did nothing physical to threaten that man and was simply defending herself from a bully who took it way too far and could have killed her. Snapped her neck in that helmet while he was slamming it into the median.

Last edited by eb07; 09-13-2018 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:50 PM
Jack Flash's Avatar
Jack Flash Jack Flash is online now
SWCA Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,132
Likes: 17,716
Liked 6,441 Times in 2,430 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
Sounds like you're rationalizing your support for her before knowing facts.

...
And what you're doing is different?

But no reason to belabor the point any further now that we know the prosecutor's decision.
__________________
They lack our altruism.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:24 PM
Borderboss Borderboss is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 24
Likes: 12
Liked 33 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Based on the YouTube video and the articles I read, it's definitely a good shoot. Her one physical engagement of the guy came in defense of his physical aggression.

As to the civil suit side, that's always a **** shoot. If I were her, I would seriously look into filing a suit against the guy's estate for her expenses and hardship. Being the first to act legally usually gives a leg up by putting the other party on the defensive.
__________________
John D.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:21 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,983
Likes: 3,869
Liked 13,650 Times in 4,655 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderboss View Post
Based on the YouTube video and the articles I read, it's definitely a good shoot.
Based on the prosecutor's decision not to charge, your armchair assessment is correct . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 09-16-2018, 05:53 AM
AimHigher AimHigher is offline
US Veteran
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 160
Likes: 49
Liked 139 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
I don't think the woman involved was an innocent victim. I think she escalated the incident, claimed deadly force was necessary because her helmet protected head was banged against a concrete median, and she willing engaged.

I expect that she won't fare well in the assured civil suit.
I hit my helmet protected head on a small rock at very slow speed and it knocked me out cold. Criminals take their victims as they find them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 09-16-2018, 07:04 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath Real SD incident and aftermath  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 5,125
Likes: 2,205
Liked 9,755 Times in 3,146 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMP3 View Post
You watch too many movies.

How a object is used determines whether it would be considered deadly and whether deadly force would be justified.

I wouldn't recommend that you bust a cap on a dude holding a pencil.
I have never seen a movie where a guy killed someone with a pencil. I did see it demonstrated as a weapon, when I attended some courses taught by a Marine hand to hand combat instructor when he demonstrated improvised weapons.

No, I wouldn't shoot someone holding a pencil. But, I would shoot some one trying to stab me with one. The sharp stick has been around for a long long time and has killed many people as well as a lot of animal. I don't normally shoot people wearing shoes either, but if I was down and they were kicking me with them, I sure would. Same with fists. I am way past the point of willingly entering into a fight. If you bring one to me and won't let me avoid it, I am not going to play "fair", I am going to go right to end it as quickly as possible by the best possible means.

More than one person has been killed by someone that didn't have a what is normally considered a "deadly weapon". Yes, I am 6'3" and weight right at 300#. I should weight about 250#. But, I am 67 years old, slower, clumsier and far more prone to injury than when younger.

Last edited by steelslaver; 09-16-2018 at 04:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Powder Valley goof up and the aftermath (it's good, believe me). muddocktor Reloading 19 05-22-2018 09:30 PM
the aftermath rays44 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 17 09-15-2016 10:33 AM
how to deal with the aftermath of an armed conflict? mikejax23 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 11 12-25-2013 01:13 AM
WY/NE/SD Gun Show aftermath SASABERANGER The Lounge 3 09-18-2012 11:11 PM
Japan has difficulty recovering from aftermath JcMack The Lounge 8 05-17-2012 07:59 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)