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  #51  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:03 PM
NEURON NEURON is offline
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I never figured out why someone would take a round designed for a semi-auto and try to adapt to a wheel gun, I see no REALLY definable reason for it, but I guess it is just old me.
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  #52  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
Bullet pull is a fact of life.

The higher power the cartridge is
or
The lighter weight the revolver is

The more inertia there is to pull the bullet forward

It does not matter what the caliber is or who makes the revolver.
I TOTALLY AGREE. ITS SIMPLY A MATTER OF PHYSICS.....
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  #53  
Old 10-05-2018, 02:51 PM
RGVshooter RGVshooter is offline
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There are some people out there that believe the 9mm cartridge is the holy grail of ammunition. I'm not one of them... I see absolutely no advantage of using a rimless cartridge in a revolver other than good ol' fashioned american marketing.
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  #54  
Old 10-05-2018, 09:50 PM
typetwelve typetwelve is offline
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Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
There are some people out there that believe the 9mm cartridge is the holy grail of ammunition. I'm not one of them... I see absolutely no advantage of using a rimless cartridge in a revolver other than good ol' fashioned american marketing.
Have you ever shot a 9mm revolver?
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  #55  
Old 10-05-2018, 11:50 PM
smoothshooter smoothshooter is offline
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Originally Posted by typetwelve View Post
People make too big of a deal out of moon clips (EDIT: "big deal" as in making them out to be a negative thing). My 627 uses them and I simply load them up before I go to the range, no big deal. I bought a nice loader/unloading tool and it's easy as pie.

The Pitbull has a nifty little detent that holds the casing in place until you eject it, loading initially takes a few times before you get the knack of it, but it's not problematic. My only complaint about Charter's system (and it's a minor one) is how the brass falls when you eject it. You have to turn the firearm upright and give a good amount of pressure to eject the brass, the detents seem to work like some sort of ejector so instead of the brass falling straight down like other revolvers, it all shoots out in 5 different directions. Because of this I'll eject into a small cardboard box vs my brass bag like I do with my other revolvers.

Small thing, really, but worth noting.
With moon clips, what do you do if you only fire a couple of shots and want to reload to get a full cylinder? Eject the whole moon clip and the three or four unfired rounds with it?

Seems like bad tactics to have to dump unfired rounds to top off your gun.
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  #56  
Old 10-06-2018, 07:07 AM
Screwball Screwball is online now
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Originally Posted by smoothshooter View Post
With moon clips, what do you do if you only fire a couple of shots and want to reload to get a full cylinder? Eject the whole moon clip and the three or four unfired rounds with it?



Seems like bad tactics to have to dump unfired rounds to top off your gun.

How does that differ from reloading a magazine with a few rounds left in it? Is it bad tactics to do that?

Sorry, but if you are involved in a shooting where you are worrying about tactics like that, you really are going to have time to pull out one or two fired rounds, and reload those chambers? When I ran my 642-1 before my 9mm conversion, I used speedloaders. In that situation, I would have dumped partially shot cylinder in my hand, reloaded, then hold unfired rounds/drop empties... and put in a pocket. All that depending on if it was realistic to do that.

For bullet jump... I actually tested my carry round and some practice ammo just to see. Hornsby crimps are good to go in my 642-1. I carry 147 grain XTP. Crimp held for three cylinders... marked the test round with an X, fired four, another four, and another four. Like mentioned, that is an extreme... not real world. However, shows that the crimp is fine. I also did two cylinder tests on UMC bulk 115 grain... with no creep. Said the hell with it after the second cylinder runs, being it wasnít a big deal (four shots is the magic number, and proved that).

Another argument used is the barrel diameter for 9mm conversions, and how inaccurate it will make the gun shoot.



This was at 15 yards. When I first started testing my revolver out after the conversion, I had a RO decide to tell me how easy it was to shoot these small guns. Put the target out, handed him the gun... and resulted in the four shot group (3 on right arm, one on lower 9, and last one off paper; with hits, was about 6Ē). Pulled back, he acknowledged, put target back out, and did the 2Ē group in the center. Gun will shoot if you do your part.

BB57 did post a big undiscussed topic; ejection of a shorter case. Personally, I have had .38s get hung up on ejection due to grips. Is it the end of the world? No, but the shorter 9mm case allows for more positive ejection. Canít argue that. Some people want a 9mm revolver with a shorter frame/cylinder... but that is definitely something S&W or Ruger wonít do. Not worth the costs to redesign for a limited number of sales.

Moonclips, I wasnít big on... until I did my 9mm conversion. Prior to that, I ran HKS speedloaders. Some like them, others donít... but they worked for me. I never cut my .38 cylinder for them because I had it done in NP3 Plus (donít want to screw up the finish). Put a loaded HKS speedloader next to a 9mm filled moonclip, a lot easier for carry. I used to carry two speedloaders as backup with one usually in the car; moonclips allow for a third on me, with the extra in the car. I also run them in Del Fatti carriers...



For the performance of 9mm and .38+P, I have found that I can get heavier standard pressure 9mm at about the same velocity as a lighter .38 +P. Whether people want to argue effectiveness, not what I care about.

I lost my data when I packed up my office the last time, but hopefully will get some time in the future to redo my tests (also big help will be buying my own chronograph over using a friendís). But the one nice thing about the testing I can do is that I still have a .38 cylinder along with my 9mm conversion cylinder. Can swap them with removing a screw, in a sort of convertible revolver setup. No argument about barrel length, or any other external factor... as it is the same revolver. I made a suggestion to MAC after his testing to get another J-frame cylinder, send it to Pinnacle or TK, and run 9mm out of the same revolver... but donít know if he got it or not. I think those test would be more telling, especially .38, 9mm, and .357 going through the same gun.

I moved to the 9mm conversion because I wanted to get away from all these different rounds (.38, .380). Did that, picked up a P938... but ended up keeping the LCP (canít find a 9mm that small). Personally, I donít have an issue with 9mm... might not be the be-all/end-all of pistol cartridges, but if does its job just fine.



And before it is asked... it isnít two lasers; LaserMax is a weapon light.
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  #57  
Old 10-06-2018, 11:16 AM
RETDOE RETDOE is offline
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This is how I came to the 9mm revolver crush, I had been running a 442 as a back up for my 25 year career. Carried a lot, shot a little. Then I realized I needed to practice more with it since it was harder to shoot (cannot believe guys recommend these guns for the ladies). Started shooting more and even took some classes with it. .38 ammo is expensive, .38 frangible is even more expensive, this was my only .38, did I mention expense? When you have to buy 500 rds for a class and the price of the ammo is more than the price of the class its an eye opener. Love the moon clips, easier to carry, easier to load, cheaper than speedloaders. Still love my 442 but now 90% of my snubby training is with the 940 and 10% with the 442, carry time has been gradually moving more towards the 940 and unless the weight is the issue I can't see that changing. The best thing about this whole journey is that we (Americans) CAN do it and have the opportunity, CHOICE and resources to do it. God Bless America! One other question, always looking for better ways to carry loaded moonclips, would love to hear suggestions.
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  #58  
Old 10-06-2018, 12:15 PM
Screwball Screwball is online now
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Originally Posted by RETDOE View Post
One other question, always looking for better ways to carry loaded moonclips, would love to hear suggestions.

The Del Fatti ones I mentioned seem to be the best option. Goes on the pocket, stem allows for orientation, and getting the moonclip out is easy...





Ruger sold some that work with the J-frame moonclips... were kind of crappy. Supposed to clip around your belt.



For a belt option, I did like the ones from Revolver Supply. I did have to use a heat gun and set the posts further in for retention... but once set, they work great.





Here is the thread I originally made when I was looking... which goes into a little more detail on them. Wasnít a big hit, I guess.

Carry Option for 9mm J-Frame Reloads
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  #59  
Old 10-08-2018, 08:15 PM
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When I'm in the woods during non-bear season I carry a 547 3" at 10 o'clock (cross draw) and a 940 2" at 4 o'clock.

I consider the 547 primary, and each coat pocket has a moon clip for the 940.

I don't get wrapped around the axle about ballistics and all the rest of the controversial, hot-button topics. I carry what I'm comfortable and confident with: practice, practice, practice.

Because you might be wondering, when I'm in the woods during bear season a 460ES replaces the 547 and a 640 Pro replaces the 940 with moon clips filled with .357 Magnums in my vest pockets.
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