Had an interesting experience last night kinda proving for me at least "bigger is better." Sort of. Maybe.

Was pushing a deadline to get my newspaper column done so I was at my desk writing around 2:30 am.

Heard a distinct, and loudish, four or five note whistle from outside my window, sorta like a bird but no bird I ever heard. My computer speakers were off, Alexa was off. Never before heard that sound from my phone.

Now maybe I've been watching too many old westerns, but I couldn't help but think it was a signal of some sort, maybe from someone(s) around the house? (But none of the motion detector lights were lit.) A bit of an adrenaline rush and it was time to pull out some self defense.

In my desk were three guns a Smith .380 EZ; Walther 9mm Q and an M&P 2.0 in .45.

I looked at the .380, thought no; considered the 9 and thought "not big enough bullets;" went to the .45, put the mag in, racked slide and sat with the lights out for half hour an hour. Nothing more. Still a mystery. And all that adrenalin gone to waste.

My point is how naturally I went for the biggest "stopper" bullet almost by reflex, but with a couple of nano-seconds of semi-logical thought. Sort of making me rethink my carry guns....as I rotate 380, 9, and 45 depending on what I'm wearing. (I've got a Smith 442 PC for pocket carry.)

I appreciate the added capacity of my 9s...but when I thought something might really be happening it was the .45 I felt safest with. Interesting.

Looks like the 45 Shield and S&W 4513TSW could see more holster time.

For EDC I use a Shield 9 exclusively in my house or shop I suppose it would be whatever was closest.

IMHO it was a simple choice.......................... .45 in hand and the 9mm tucked into the small of your back/ belt for a NY reload...............


IMO.380 is a great; small, always with you 'self defense" round/gun....when you are going about your activities of daily living...... when you think there may be a threat......... and you can't/don't have a long gun...........not so much!!!!!!!!!!!!

Makes no difference at all if you miss what your aiming for.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

The gun that was loaded and ready to go would have been my choice. Then, again, they all would have been ready to go if they were in my desk.

Making that choice would be a non-issue for me, no matter what the circumstances might be. Of the guns I keep within reach for self/home defense, none are smaller than .45 caliber. My everyday carry pistol is also a .45acp.

A caliber war by any other name,,,,,,,

Well if I had a choice, I would never go into a potential fight with just a handgun, much less any 380. I would have no issue with any caliber 9mm & up with good jhp. Limit me to solids, then 45acp all the way.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Well I believe you are already behind the curve... in the same situation, I've already got my EDC on me.

And heck no, I'm not investigating anything with a long gun that requires both my hands. A long gun at home is for "holed up, backed in a corner, and fighting them off."

If I am mobile, it's absolutely a handgun.

I think Clint Smith said something along the lines of until there is a fight your gun can't be too small and when there is a fight it can't be too big. I have started carrying a more substantial revolver when possible.

I would grab the one that was loaded and ready to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assuming all are ready and loaded, I would pick the one I can shoot the best---meaning accuracy and repeat shots. My drawer gun is my old BHP, (9mm); my always on me pocket gun is a 649-2, (38Spl). Both these are enough for me, although If I could only have one of them it would be the 649.

I would have to grab a 45. Don't own a 380 or 9mm.

Assuming I shot them equally there's something to say about "lots of bullets", but that ole'45acp says "take me" and I would.

Maybe someone was watching "A Fistful Of Dollars" outside your window. .

But seriously, the first thing I would have grabbed was the phone, to call 911...then any of the above, while proceeding to a secure place in your home.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Many thanks for the comments, especially the one about grabbing more than one gun. My thought was, "I gotta take a gun out of the drawer." Can't imagine why I didn't think "Gotta take two guns from the drawer." I'll never make that mistake again.

Also, I have no problem at all hitting what I aim at with all three. So accuracy isn't an issue.

Finally, I had the phone...but calling 911 for a noise, just one strange noise, one time and no other indications of a problem didn't seem a prudent reaction. Had I seen a shadow or a person or a motion detector light go on (have them on all sides of our modular home, ya can't get close without being lit up)...it would have been my wife and I in our safe space with the sheriff on the way.

I have confidence in my 9mm defense loads, or at least always told myself that. So, what I was surprised at was my decision to go for the .45 and not the 9.

I still love my 9s....but I guess I trust my .45 a bit more. A good lesson easily learned.

Copy that.

JMO: priorities...
1. You can/will ALWAYS carry it.
2. It ALWAYS goes bang when trigger is pulled.
3. It NEVER goes bang unless the trigger is pulled.
4. You can HIT what you aim at when it goes bang.
5. Capacity, ease of Reloading.
6. Caliber.

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Certified Curmudgeon

The immediate question is, why wasn't the gun already loaded? Those actions and lost time could have cost you, well, more than you wanted. So, if you're going to use a gun for defense, keep it loaded.

We can talk about the choice of tool, handgun vs shotgun vs rifle vs Claymore, another time. In this case I really think the caliber is irrelevant. But here is what I would have picked; .45ACP. Why? Because I shoot it best. Yes, I can hit what I aim at with all of them, but if I'm best with the .45 when I'm not stressed, that's the one I can Guarantee the hit with when I am stressed.


Let's drift this just a little and talk about what you did right...
You didn't go searching. All too often people leave the relative safety of their barricaded position, inside the house, and go searching for the potential bad guy. This puts you at a significant disadvantage because then all they have to do is wait for you to come by and they get the jump on you. So, good for you to stay put.

You turned the lights off inside. This does two things for you; it alerts any potential bad guy that you're aware of them and it hides you from their vision.

You had motion activated lights outside. If there really was a bad guy, they would have been lit up and you would have been in the dark. This is a significant advantage for you. The one thing I would add to this security feature is the ability to manually turn them on from inside. This way you can light anything outside, moving or not. Again, this is an advantage for you and likely would end any encounter, animal or human, before it starts.

With the exception of the gun not being loaded already, you had a good action plan.

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Freedom isn't free.

Problem, you call 911 every time you hear a weird noise, you are going to get ignored at some point, crying wolf thing. We all go check the weird noise, 911 is for when you know it is a problem.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

12 gauge 870 with 00 buck ��

It's the whistle that's the question here.........

Beware of the ol hooty hoot signal.

I would have reached for a 45 too.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

THE .45ACP GETS MY VOTE. I HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH IT IN THE MILITARY, FROM 1968. I CARRIED A FULL SIZE COLT 1911, IN CIVILIAN LIFE FOR OVER 3 DECADES. IF A BAD GUY TAKES A HIT OR 2 OF EVEN 230 GR, GI FMJ BALL AMMO, THEIR ONLY THOUGHT IS, WHEN IS MEDICAL HELP GOING TO ARRIVE ? ? ?

IN CONTRAST, WHENEVER I READ OF A BAD GUY WHO SUSTAINED MANY GUNSHOT WOUNDS, ONLY TO ATTACK THE SHOOTER WITH A KNIFE, OR SOME OTHER WEAPON---THE VAST MAJORITY OF TIMES THEY WERE SHOT WITH A 9MM....

BEFORE ANYONE GOES OFF ON ME, I REALIZE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN ADVANCES MADE IN THE DESIGN AND VARIETY OF SD AMMO, IN 9MM. MANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES HAVE SWITCHED FROM THE 9MM TO THE .40 S&W. WHAT DO YOU SUPPOSE THE REASON IS ? ? ? IT CERTAINLY ISN'T THE COST OF AMMO, SINCE 9MM IS THE CHEAPEST, AND MOST READILY AVAILABLE AMMO ON THE MARKET....

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CAPACITY ISSUE. I REALIZE THAT HI-CAP MAGAZINES ARE AVAILABLE FOR MOST BRANDS OF 9MM SEMI-AUTO PISTOLS. I CARRIED 3 CHIP McCORMIC, 10 ROUND "SHOOTING STAR" MAGAZINES. WITH A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER, AND A FULL MAG INSERTED, I HAD 11 IN THE GUN, WITH 2 FULL MAGS ON MY WEAK SIDE, I HAD 31 ROUNDS OF BLACK TALON JHP AVAILABLE. (I LEARNED IN VIETNAM, THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HAVING TOO MUCH AMMO) IN ANY EVENT, IF THAT KIND OF FIREPOWER CAN'T GET YOU OUT OF A SITUATION, ITS TIME TO POP SOME SMOKE FOR A HELICOPTER EXTRACTION.....

THE .380 IS THE 9MM KURZ---THE RUNT OF THE FAMILY, AS TONY SOPRANO USED TO SAY, "FAGGEDDABOUTIT ! ! !"

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

And the drunk beauty queen, hurt by your cold response to her whistling compliment, wandered off to the next house...

(I'd've grabbed the gun that I shoot best and has all my trust...the rest is details.)

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Pickpocket

Shoot anyone in a vital organ with any of those firearms and the attacker will be instantly stopped.

Shoot anyone with any of those firearms and miss a vital organ and they may continue attacking if they are so inclined.

At the end of the day, that is the one and only truth, the rest is merely conjecture. Shot placement is what ultimately ends violent confrontations with determined attackers. Not caliber, not cartridge, not rhetoric, shot placement.

If carrying a bigger gun with higher capacity, a more powerful cartridge, or a bigger bullet makes you feel more confident due to whatever marginal percentage it may offer in specific unfavorable scenarios in which anything less could potentially fail, or otherwise are capable of doing so without it being an issue, then by all means carry it.
As for me, I'll continue carrying a single-stack .380 ACP pistol since that's what I'm confident, comfortable, and familiar with. If I could carry a .45 on me just as easily, then I wouldn't hesitate to do so, but right now that isn't an option.

I have a 44 spl with two speed strips that sit right above my head on my desk. I go outside it goes in my holster. I keep a Kimber 1911 45 acp in my night stand with one extra magazine. The 44 spl also goes on top of my night stand when I go to bed for the night.

Ever since I read about a Houston man that had a safe full of guns but didn't carry one got robbed by a kick in by armed robbers I make it a point to have a gun on me or reachable all the time while at home.

That's why window screens aren't necessary.....open the window and let rip a few warning shots....close window go back to work.

Last winter the watchdog and I were awakened to knocking on the back door. He went off and I grabbed the nightstand pistol. Thinking it's frozen solid outside temperatures in the single digits, someone may need some help. After lighting the back porch I could see one of the handful of 12oz cokes left from target shooting all swelled up laying on it's side on the shooting table. I wondered if that coke could of fallen over making a knocking sound? Still on alert I climb back in bed when minutes later the knocking' happened again.....looked at the suspect cans, yep another one fell over. I think the cans went airborne when they burst causing them to bounce on the table.

Yeah, I did fire a few warning shots out the kitchen window at 2am.... forget the neighbors, full steam ahead!

ETA: it was a 45acp..... that level of bang' is a good persuader.

If my feet are on the floor I would have had my carry on me !! Two nights ago about 1:30 heard a car door shut .. living in the country with neighbors several 100 yards away you don't here noises like that unless they are your vehicles .. Walked down the hall to where I could see out .. No lights on in the house except the light from my computer ..

Pole light showed under the Jeep and no feet .. walk back to the porch door and opened it .. hand on my Sig P229 in 40 still holstered .. could hear 2 people talking but couldn't understand what was said .. soon lights on 2 pickup's lite up the farm field 1/2 mile away .. the noise had traveled that far in the still night air .. Farmers were working late to get crops in before the rain we got later that morning ..

No need to be questioning which gun to use when you should have had your carry on your person ..

I echo the thought about you needing control of your outside lights. Don't depend upon motion sensors. They generally need a certain minimum trigger speed to activate. There's a threshold below which they probably won't activate. And probably areas of your yard where they don't pickup motion well.

Where you put the bullet is far more important than the diameter, weight, velocity or trendy design of the bullet. Grab the one you shoot the best. BUT, be honest. Most of us are better off with .38/9 mm.

Your final handgun choice is your preference, but this is the part I don't get. What do you have for home defense, a drawer with 3 unloaded semi-autos, and multiple mixed caliber mags to sort through and load, or multiple drawers to open? What benefit do you perceive from this arrangement?

Glad all turned out well in the end.

Please tell me you're just joking about this.

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Freedom isn't free.

It's not for the faint of heart ... you won't hear any boogers whistling in code around my house in the wee hours....if you don't hear anybody holler, go back to work.

First I put on my BPV then with your choices ..... the 45 in one hand and 9mm as well.
Vest was a gift from my son and a buddy who lost my three kayak life vests as teenagers and when his buddy became a Cop they made things right.
Had my boat been confiscated when those same kids, another voyage, were caught with two undersized lobsters I might have been gifted a hi-tech night vision system aboard an armed drone.

Thinking of getting a Winchester 24 and rechamber for 3”/3.5”, if possible, as the 870 is in the Rockies.
357 Snub with two shotshells followed by four solids is preferred by the Lady of the Manor.

Feed the hounds or pay the alarm company???

Glad all is well I too would have pawed the 45 only differance. My are all and always hot one in pipe

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Spin The Wheel

As a retired cop that ran out of ammo in the middle of a gun fight in 1974 I offer two suggestions: (1) ALWAYS have enough ammo for the fight that’s coming; and (2) Call 911 right after grabbing your gun. That said I’m glad nothing happened and you did not need your gun or the police.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Elmer Keith would be proud of you. He said to use the biggest damn
gun you can handle.

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In Omnia Paratus

My question would be which handgun points best for you? Under bad lighting conditions which handgun can you hit the best with when you can't get a perfect sight picture and need to get a round off quickly with?

Next issue for me is capacity? If you get into a fight under bad lighting conditions between bad lighting and the stress of a fight your shooting is not going to be as accurate as it will be on a target range.

Finally I see the 9mm and the 45ACP as being close in effectiveness. Not equal but close assuming high quality JHP rounds. I'd pass on the 380 because we're looking at a house gun situation not deep concealed carry.

My answer is a full sized Sig 250. 9mm high capacity, night sights w a frame mounted light. Has a DA only trigger w 2nd strike capacity if I get a click rather than a bang and have my other hand busy. Trigger isn't as nice as a 1911 or a good revolver but feels kinda like the DA pull on a S&W revolver.Note I said kinda like not just like. This model also fits my hand well. Your hand isn't my hand and for you what fits me doesn't count.

As for tactics turning your lights out inside is good when you think the threat is outside. If I've got a bad guy outside I don't want to be lit up inside in case it is someone intent on doing harm. I want him lit up and me in the dark. I also want him to know that I know he is there. My preference is for him to go away as fast as he can run not get in a gunfight.

Cite please?

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Retired Career Security Guard

I think you've been watching too many Halloween movies. Everybody knows you need an axe, preferably of splitting maul caliber, to deal with ghouls and zombies.

You honestly need proof that any of those bullets will stop an attacker if it hits them in a vital organ which would normally result in a fatal injury?

*sighs*

Nope, sorry... Not playing that game. If you want to believe that getting shot in a vital organ with a .380 ACP will somehow be less effective than it would be with any other cartridge, then you can go right on ahead.
I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to you that getting shot in the brainstem, spine, heart, lungs, or any number of the major arteries tends to incapacitate/kill. Skeptics like you tend to continue arguing far past the point of reason, and it always results in pointless arguments in which the goal lines are repeatedly placed further and further down the field. I'd prove that getting shot in the brainstem with .380 ACP is fatal only to be met with responses asking me to prove that it will ALWAYS result in immediate incapacitation regardless of the circumstances or how absurd they may be, only for you to point out one specific extraordinary case in which somebody wasn't immediately incapacitated but remained upright for a whole 2.5 seconds which he could have totally used to lunge/stab or pull a trigger, ergo that means I'm wrong. Nevermind that such cases exist among all handgun cartridges, in the world of poorly-constructed internet arguments, you don't have to backup your end of the argument, merely show one-sided evidence to the contrary of their statements.

How about this? For once, YOU can prove ME wrong by citing your claims to the contrary. It should be easy to cherry pick a few articles in which the .380 failed to incapacitate someone anyway. Go for it.

Sounds like he's taking Crazy Uncle Joe Biden's advice: "I said, Jill, if there's ever a problem just walk out on the balcony here ... put that double-barreled shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house," Biden said during an online question-and-answer session Tuesday. (2/19/13)

Bill

Perhaps keep the 380 in your pocket when at home.

Then grab either the 9mm or the 45 acp if you have time when a problem comes up.

There are lots of cases where before you know anything is happening, the bad guys kick the front door open and rush in.

In that case, the only weapon you have is the one in your pocket.

The 380 is best for that.

I'm not the one who made the claim, I'm the one who asked you to back up your claim.

You very specifically claimed that

You didn't say anything about "brain stems" you said a hit in a vital organ would INSTANTLY incapacitate and that's simply not true. There are any number of examples of criminals taking hits in vital organs and staying in the fight (Platt & Matix) in Miami Michael Platt continued to fight for almost 10 minutes after having his Brachial Artery severed, a lung punctured twice and his heart nicked by a 9mm Winchester Silvertip. He managed to kill 2 cops (including the one who shot him) and wound several others before being killed by multiple hits with a .38 including one to his spine.

"Instantly"

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Retired Career Security Guard

Thank you for verifying my statement in regards to skeptics always resorting to pointing out extraordinary cases as evidence.

Seriously, it's remarkable how often folks site extraordinary cases which made headlines in the first place because they aren't at all common as evidence of the effectiveness of any given cartridge, especially when it renders their whole argument pointless like it does right here.
Yes, Platt & Matix did indeed take a lot of lead that day, including 9mm Luger, .357 Magnum, and even a bit of 12 Gauge buckshot, ergo the bit of evidence you used as an example would indicate that regardless of what the topic creator used, it would be completely ineffective.
Heck, what kind of point are you even trying to make here using the Miami 1986 Shootout as an example? I'm completely lost here. Did you even have a point or was this just your typical, argument for the sake of an argument that so often occurs online?

At any rate, most human beings stop attacking, voluntarily or otherwise after being shot in a vital organ. Anything outside of that is highly unusual occurrence which honestly shouldn't factor into preparation for any self-defense situation because it effectively dead-locks you.

That being said, sorry for the scene everyone, I'm just really tired of how you honestly can't say anything on firearms forums these days without someone coming along and starting a lazy argument with a single sentence, placing the burden of proof on the person who made the statement, and never yielding to any proof whatsoever because in reality they only started the argument in the first place to get attention/feign superiority.
In fact, I think I ought to take a break from firearms forums for awhile.

I hope you don't as you are always a good read.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I hope you don't either. I love that you participate. So many don't.

I too caught the "instantly" part of what you said, but as an adult who is capable of critical thinking, I understood what you meant. As for that, I agree, any of those calibers will do the same amount of stopping if they are placed in the appropriate place.

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Freedom isn't free.

You don't by any chance own a pair of superlatively trained pit bulls do you?

My point is quite simple, you made an unqualified statement

You even stated it as

I merely asked you to provide some data to support the statement. Which you have as yet failed to present.

Of course now I'm curious what makes Miami extraordinary. Matix wasn't high. He wasn't wearing body armor. He wasn't even the odd case he took what was considered to be one of the premier self defense rounds of the day in two vital organs and 1 major artery (plus several major non arterial vessels) and still stayed in the fight long enough to kill 2 FBI agents.

Here is the main point that I am trying to communicate; the only way you are going to "instantly" incapacitate anyone is to sever their spine or destroy their brain stem. Yes, such shots do happen but they are not the norm.

As Steven Crowder would say "change my mind".

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Retired Career Security Guard

I’d take the one that I was most comfortable with, but I’m with Old Cop on this one. Before I would sit around in the dark for half an hour wondering what misfortune might be about to befall me, I’d be calling the cops. That’s just too much sittin’ around in the dark for me.

About 75 miles from where I live, a man and his wife were killed three nights ago when they went out to investigate some noise outside that turned out to be a couple of guys stealing their vehicles.
The homeowners probably made some tactical mistakes, as described above, by back-lighting themselves, making too much noise, etc., but I don't actually know too many details yet as the sheriff's dept. is keeping the details out of the news while the investigation is underway. Both perps have now been caught.
Initial reports used the word " gunfight ", which to me indicates bullets going both ways, when describing what led up to the murders.
Will be interesting to find out what actually happened.
The couple were very sociable church-people in their early fifties who were highly thought of by their neighbors and everyone who knew them.
Will post more when the final report is out. Could be a useful case study.

I would reccommend that you cover your nightstand gun with a towel, paper magazine, sock cap, or something so it is not in plain sight so that if someone gets in you bedroom unnoticed they don't kill you in your sleep with your own gun, in case they didn't bring one of their own.