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  #51  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
So as a new shooter I should have immediately taught quick draw and running and shooting?

Do you even understand that the basic building blocks need to be taught before she becomes a pie hitting super tactical 3%er taking down attackers john wick style and running punisher skulls on her lifted truck and putting all her training classes in her signature lines on tactical forums?

Now I don't even know what to say to your out of the zone of reality comments on how to teach a new shooter and introduce them to handguns so I will just stop responding.
Wow, you literally didn't understand a single thing I wrote.
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  #52  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:47 PM
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Wow, you literally didn't understand a single thing I wrote.
You are right, I am wrong. You got the last word. Cheers.
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  #53  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:51 PM
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What an uninformed, uneducated and untrained individual likes is largely irrelevant. They have no knowledge or experience in which to make any kind of informed decision. What they prefer in the context of shooting after one range visit means little in the context of what would be an effective self-defense choice.

Most gun guys tend to be "shooters", whose training is limited to static range shooting, who want to get people involved in range shooting in the same manner they do it and approach personal defense from this perspective, but shooting and armed self-defense(fighting with a gun) are two very different things, just like there is a big difference between certain martial arts and practical unarmed self-defense. If a woman is solely interested in learning effective H2H methods and rape prevention skills, she is going to have to undertake training that is relatively strenuous and involves some compromising positions. The local mcdojo will likely be more fun, easier to learn and perhaps not involve participating in training methods utilizing techniques which many find uncomfortable, but she won't likely learn skills that would be applicable in an actual assault and instead simply gain a false sense of confidence.

I've lost count of the number of people who my mother said have recommended she get a .22, but the reasons they give for their suggestion are always isolated to target shooting. My mother is a pragmatic, and is only interested in choosing the most effective tool for the most likely realistic scenarios she will face as an armed civilian and her weapon of choice is an S&W 442. She chose this weapon after thoroughly educating herself by studying the competing arguments for and against various weapons, considering the most likely potential threats and scenarios she would encounter as an armed civilian, her likely response and how each weapon would be used and perform in them and came to the conclusion that the supposed negatives of the .38 snub really only applied to target shooting and it's strengths were likely to be beneficial in the most probable actual personal defense situations. Shooting, being a shooter, the shooting or gun community had nothing to do with it as it shouldn't.

A .22 is no doubt better than nothing, but I would never recommend one for personal defense unless there was some sort of severe physical impairment. No way would I ever want my wife or mother to depend on one in matters of life and death.
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  #54  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I could NEVER in good faith recommend a 22lr to anyone for SD. Two reasons; incredibly poor terminal performance & 22lr is notorious for being unreliable.
Recoil is a managed thing, isn't gonna happen on day one. A larger frame 380 would be the minimum. Recoil is milder than the small guns & more grip for more control. A steel frame 9mm would be next up, something like a 5906 or even single stack 1911. If anyone has difficulty racking the slide on just about any pistol, it is poor technique that is the issue. I can get an 8y or 80y old to rack a pistol slide, proper technique is the issue.
I start all my new shooters, old, young, male, female, strong or weak with a 22lr. Then we start moving up. I have gotten brand new shooters shooting decently with a 1911 & 45 target loads. 38sp wc are almost as soft as 22lr & a 3"-4", medium size 357mag with 148gr WC is a no joke decent SD gun with minimal recoil. If you can shoot a 22lr you can shoot that.
My father, a decorated Army Airborne Ranger combat veteran (three bronze stars, a Presidential Citation, and about a pound of other stuff), usually packed either a Sterling 22LR pistol, or a Charter Arms Undercover. He told me more than once that a 22 will kill a man just as dead and just as fast as an Atom Bomb.

There is nothing wrong with his advice and I don't hesitate to carry either of his favorite little shooters from time to time.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:08 PM
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I've always wanted a Beretta 22.
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  #56  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:17 PM
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My thinking is that EB07 did a good thing in introducing a reticent lady to firearms, and appreciate him taking of his time to do that for another person. I also agree that a 22LR is a lot better than nothing for protecting oneself, especially if one uses it enough to be very familiar with its operation.

Would the lady be more capable of protecting herself if she had a larger caliber? Surely, and not many here would disagree. Would she be more capable of protecting herself if she invested time and money in hand-to-hand self defense training? Certainly. But it sounds like she may not be interested in doing either of these things. So, the bottom line is she is better equipped to protect herself with a 22LR than she would be with no gun at all (her present situation) and no hand-to-hand training (also, I am assuming, her present situation). That is why I think EB07 did a good thing.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:49 PM
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There's a certain phrase: the customer is always right. What it means is, even when the customer is wrong, you can either play the hand you're dealt, so to speak, or you can not have a customer.

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Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
Actually, not at all. But, you did confirm my earlier assertion that many on here are dismissive and have disdain for any type of physical fighting methods or combatives. In your case, I think the derision is likely based in fear and feelings of inadeqauency.
Nah. I'm dismissive of you. But yeah sure, it's because I'm afraid.

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Old 10-09-2018, 06:10 PM
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Anyone seen any Mall Ninja's around anywhere??
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  #59  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:34 PM
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Eb07's friend went from being able to handle 0% of self defense situations to being able to handle 99.75% of self defense situations.

I'd say that's a pretty good jump.

Please continue to argue about how to handle the remaining 0.25%.
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  #60  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
Eb07's friend went from being able to handle 0% of self defense situations to being able to handle 99.75% of self defense situations.

I'd say that's a pretty good jump.

Please continue to argue about how to handle the remaining 0.25%.
My interpretation of Mister X is he feels most civilian gunfights are fist fight distance attacks where a gun gets pulled. Tom Givens talks about most being between 3 to 7 yards.

Based on your FBI experiences that you've mentioned in NOLA and on Indian Reservations, what's your take on civilian gunfight distances.
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  #61  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
Eb07's friend went from being able to handle 0% of self defense situations to being able to handle 99.75% of self defense situations.

I'd say that's a pretty good jump.

Please continue to argue about how to handle the remaining 0.25%.
The OP stated she had some sort of incident with a crazy client. He didn't specify what line of work she was in she was in, but regardless of her profession, clients would generally indicate working in very close physical proximity. Not too many attackers will announce their violent intent from across the room, so she would have to handle the initial assault, be able to access the weapon and effectively use it in that environment. The kind of range shooting she was doing simply doesn't address and prepare her for the dynamics she is likely to encounter.
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  #62  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:55 PM
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The OP stated she had some sort of incident with a crazy client. He didn't specify what line of work she was in she was in, but regardless of her profession, clients would generally indicate working in very close physical proximity. Not too many attackers will announce their violent intent from across the room, so she would have to handle the initial assault, be able to access the weapon and effectively use it in that environment. The kind of range shooting she was doing simply doesn't address and prepare her for the dynamics she is likely to encounter.
Jeez, buddy. Give it a rest.

She has a gun. She knows how to shoot it.

Maybe in the next few years she'll develop a taste for EXCQWW with a dash of Krav Maga and a side of Brazilian Martial Arts. But probably not. She is better off now than she was before.

Do you have any actual real-world experience with any of this? Outside of the range or gym or dojo?
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  #63  
Old 10-09-2018, 09:30 PM
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eb07

Well done! Every new shooter should have someone to do EXACTLY what you did for her. We'd have a lot more people fall in love with shooting rather than fearing or avoiding it because it gives them no joy.


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  #64  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:25 PM
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Wow, this went from positive discussion to a squirting match in short order....
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  #65  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
You are right, I am wrong. You got the last word. Cheers.
Don’t worry about it. You did good. A gun, any gun will always be better than no gun.

Practice, training, and more practice are a good thing. You know that better than most. And since you yourself has successfully defended himself with a gun, you know what it takes to do so. Statistics show that many, many people have successfully defended themselves with very little gun knowledge. So don’t let the so called experts dissuade you.

I’m willing to bet that the lady will eventually move up in caliber. But in the end she is the one that needs to have supreme confidence in what she uses for personal defense.

This survey is proof that having a gun and the willingness to use it are far more important than caliber.
https://tacticalprofessor.files.word...r-w-tables.pdf
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gripgrabber View Post
Hello, I have to agree with your thoughts, Iíve let my wife try many different guns, lcr,jframes,shields,mp9c,glocks,NAA, and the only thing she will carry is a MP22 compact. Go figure!
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I don't blame her. I bought one of those about 8 months ago, and love it.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:01 PM
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I wish all of these .22 compacts were the size of the Walther P22, or slightly smaller. Some of them are full sized!
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  #68  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
Jeez, buddy. Give it a rest.

She has a gun. She knows how to shoot it.

Maybe in the next few years she'll develop a taste for EXCQWW with a dash of Krav Magam and a side of Brazilian Martial Arts. But probably not. She is better off now than she was before.

Do you have any actual real-world experience with any of this? Outside of the range or gym or dojo?
With this being a forum, I was under the impression that when someone made a post, discussion and debate were welcome and allowed. Apparently, some feel you should only post when you agree with the OP by giving him an attaboy.

I merely disagreed with what was presented to the woman in how to pick an appropriate carry weapon. She based her choice on a flawed premise. Give her a different perspective and context and maybe she chooses differently and I think she likely would. I give an alternative viewpoint and get snarky responses instead of rationale debate. If someone thinks I'm wrong, tell me why.

I don't think the woman has to engage in extensive ECQ or H2H training and I never said otherwise here. I do think the inherent advantages of an enclosed hammer snub does overcome many of the potential problems she would encounter in the context of her circumstances that were presented.

Again, she has "clients" and some sort of potentially violent encounter with a "crazy" one. Client in any sense indicates working in close proximity and that a violent physical assault is probably the most likely threat, rather than a shoot-out at 15 yards. How does continually working on proper stance, grip, trigger control in a static range setting help her defend herself when a "crazy client" has grabbed her by the hair and is beating the tar out of her or has thrown her down and is attempting to rape her? It doesn't.

My wife, mother and grandmother don't and have never trained regularly or intensely, but they do understand the most likely threats they will encounter and the nature of the problem and have subsequently learned some basic defense skills to hopefully not initially get completely over-whelmed and how to access their gun, use and retain it while under attack. Much can be learned in a single session and simply understanding the realities of the likely circumstances goes a long way. Static range work will not teach that and simply having a gun, any gun, is not always enough, especially in the circumstances as they were presented here, where the gun may not even factor in since she might not even be able to access it at all let alone effectively retain and use it.

I've presented my credentials and the experience that I think makes me qualified to make the statements that I do here and on other forums numerous times. It doesn't really matter, since I imagine many probably don't even believe it since I stay anonymous. My background is very different than most here and I present what seems a contrarian perspective from most gun centric range oriented folks, so I don't expect understanding or agreement and that doesn't matter to me. No, I've never actually shot anyone in any type of real-world scenario, but I don't think that matters. George Zimmerman has been shot at and shot more people(in ECQ no less) than probably 99% of defensive shooting instructors out there, but I don't think that somehow makes him more knowledgeable or qualified than them.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by crstrode View Post
My father, a decorated Army Airborne Ranger combat veteran (three bronze stars, a Presidential Citation, and about a pound of other stuff), usually packed either a Sterling 22LR pistol, or a Charter Arms Undercover. He told me more than once that a 22 will kill a man just as dead and just as fast as an Atom Bomb.

There is nothing wrong with his advice and I don't hesitate to carry either of his favorite little shooters from time to time.
And your point? My father also decorated airborne & retired LEO, often didn't even carry a gun off duty. Sure a 22lr will kill, so will a pointed stick, the issue is reliability of rim fire & stopping a violent attack. IMO, packing a 22lr is stupid when there are better choices.
I thin the issue with most people is they want a gun to feel safer but not wiling to put in the work & time to be proficient with a more reliable gun/caliber. No real free lunch with most things in life. If it is important to you, then get a suitable caliber gun & some training & put in some range time.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:59 PM
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I carried a badge for many years in the little city of El Segundo, CA. In 1957 we had two officers make a routine traffic stop. All was code 4. One was seated in the passenger seat, the other leaning over the hood writing the citation. The violator pulled a handgun and shot and killed both of them.

What did he use? .22 SHORTS !!!!!!

That's all I'm saying. Don't care to enter a pi**ing contest. Draw your own conclusions.

(The killer was finally arrested and convicted in 2003.)
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:26 PM
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I picked up one of these for the grandsons to shoot...


I could use it to defend myself if that's what was handy at the time.


No worries

Browning 1911 22 LR Compact



I also like this ammunition, 40 gr HP 1435 FPS





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Old 10-10-2018, 02:52 PM
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I carried a badge for many years in the little city of El Segundo, CA. In 1957 we had two officers make a routine traffic stop. All was code 4. One was seated in the passenger seat, the other leaning over the hood writing the citation. The violator pulled a handgun and shot and killed both of them.

What did he use? .22 SHORTS !!!!!!

That's all I'm saying. Don't care to enter a pi**ing contest. Draw your own conclusions.

(The killer was finally arrested and convicted in 2003.)
Yep a 22lr is very effective assassination round fired into the head at unsuspecting targets. You really think that under duress of an attack the generally unskilled/untrained victim is going to coolly place their shots into the bad guys head?? Then when the rim frie round fails to fire, quite common, they will coolly tap/rack & fire again??? Poor reliability alone is reason enough to never choose a rimfire for anything but squirrels & rabbits.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:56 PM
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I consider myself above this fray, since the least I'll carry for personal protection is a NAA or Ruger LCR in .22 WMR . . .
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:00 PM
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Yep a 22lr is very effective assignation round fired into the head at unsuspecting targets. You really think that under duress of an attack the generally unskilled/untrained victim is going to coolly place their shots into the bad guys head?? Then when the rim frie round fails to fire, quite common, they will coolly tap/rack & fire again??? Poor reliability alone is reason enough to never choose a rimfire for anything but squirrels & rabbits.
Who said anything about head shots? They were all body shots. Tap, rack, fire again? It was a revolver. One officer lived long enough to return fire at the fleeing vehicle, HITTING THE KILLER IN THE BACK!

So logically we shouldn't carry .38 Specials either? Geez!

(Broke my own rule.)
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:16 PM
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eb07,

You did fine. Just about every female I instructed over the years was able to learn the basics with a .22. After that it was very easy to transition them to .38 wadcutters. Some stayed at that level, others moved up.

But the bottom line: they all then felt comfortable around firearms.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:02 PM
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...I always took my role as an instructor very seriously. The effectiveness of what I taught was potentially the difference between life and death for LEO's as well as ordinary citizens. Self-defense isn't a game or hobby...
oftentimes, people don't know what they don't know...

Friend, you are getting too deep into the weeds. At my club we have a gentleman who comes across as you do, he is an RSO, in fact he holds a CRSO rating as well as several "NRA Certified Trainer" ratings. He constantly paraded people he perceived as "rule violators" in front of the club Board of Directors, until he had to be told to chill out. What he doesn't have, is a single ounce of common sense nor any understanding of human nature. Is your name Rick by any chance?
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:25 PM
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Friend, you are getting too deep into the weeds. At my club we have a gentleman who comes across as you do, he is an RSO, in fact he holds a CRSO rating as well as several "NRA Certified Trainer" ratings. He c,onstantly paraded people he perceived as "rule violators" in front of the club Board of Directors, until he had to be told to chill out. What he doesn't have, is a single ounce of common sense nor any understanding of human nature. Is your name Rick by any chance?
Nope, not him. And I'm not a defensive shooting instructor.

I don't see how anything I wrote is comparable to how you describe Rick. And how exactly do I lack common sense and not understand human nature based on what I wrote?
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:51 PM
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That you don't understand is sort've the point.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:24 PM
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Nope, not him. And I'm not a defensive shooting instructor.

I don't see how anything I wrote is comparable to how you describe Rick. And how exactly do I lack common sense and not understand human nature based on what I wrote?




Well now, that just tells it all, don't it.


Another goes on the growing list of...well ya know.




.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:38 PM
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...
And how exactly do I lack common sense and not understand human nature based on what I wrote?
You know, I may be the only one here that appreciates your content, but ... like you’ve even mentioned about yourself a couple times before, you have a pretty abrasive communication style. Also, the whole “nationally renowned defensive tactics instructor to remain nameless” thing seems a bit over the top. IMO, those things might be the answer to your questions above. But that’s just my opinion.

Keep posting. I like the points you bring up even when I don’t agree.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:56 PM
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Follow up:

She ordered her handgun and texted me how excited she is to go shoot it and how she wants my wife to join her.

She also thanked me for making her feel comfortable. Apparently she tried this before a few years back and was pushed into firearms she wasn’t comfortable with at the local rental range by the local instructor who is ex Leo even after she protested and ended up dropping the subject for a few years and never going back.

Baby steps but I believe I transformed yet another middle aged non gun owner into owning one. Third one in 2018. Second female. The last one chose the ruger lcp 2 and has since graduated to a Glock 19 in four short months. Another friend of my wife.

Again not all people’s minds and bodies are created equal and not everyone needs to be a tactical tommy to survive. This was the first time in many years I ever recommended such a small caliber. From the texts and interest she is showing to include understanding the shortcomings of the small round, I know I went the right direction with this regardless of the naysayers.

Firearm ownership is a right and a choice and should not be dissuaded or forced on anyone because of what someone else thinks of as right. The mind sometimes is as big of a limitation as physical handicap and sometimes different routes need to be taken to achieve the end result.

I have never met a man or woman alive who claimed: ”22lr is a weak round for self defense, let me go down range and prove it to you. “

At any rate thanks for all the comments even if I do disagree with some of them. Valid points for a large percentage of people but not for all. That is closed minded thinking in my opinion.

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Old 10-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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JMO, the platform matters more to me than the caliber. So being comfortable with a M640, most of that comfort would translate to a .32 H&R M34, a .22 WMR M351c or a .22 LR M43c (with Aguila SSS). I would likely prefer those to a different platform in a larger caliber.

Rule One, have a gun.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:09 PM
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A .22 is no doubt better than nothing...
While I understand why you wrote all the other stuff, THIS is the key take away that aligns with why the original poster went with the .22 caliber. Some people aren't going to research anything, or train, or do any of the stuff they should do. For some, it really is the .22 or nothing. And we all know the .22 is better than that nothing. I'd do all I can to convince them otherwise, but in the end it's their choice. It might not be a logical choice, but it's still their choice. As long as they have something, it's better than nothing.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:34 PM
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Well now, that just tells it all, don't it.


Another goes on the growing list of...well ya know.




.


I teach the skills that are more important than what you'll receive in the typical defensive shooting class. That may be difficult for some to comprehend, but it is what it is.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:50 PM
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Follow up:

She ordered her handgun and texted me how excited she is to go shoot it and how she wants my wife to join her.

She also thanked me for making her feel comfortable. Apparently she tried this before a few years back and was pushed into firearms she wasnít comfortable with at the local rental range by the local instructor who is ex Leo even after she protested and ended up dropping the subject for a few years and never going back.

Baby steps but I believe I transformed yet another middle aged non gun owner into owning one. Third one in 2018. Second female. The last one chose the ruger lcp 2 and has since graduated to a Glock 19 in four short months. Another friend of my wife.

Again not all peopleís minds and bodies are created equal and not everyone needs to be a tactical tommy to survive. This was the first time in many years I ever recommended such a small caliber. From the texts and interest she is showing to include understanding the shortcomings of the small round, I know I went the right direction with this regardless of the naysayers.

Firearm ownership is a right and a choice and should not be dissuaded or forced on anyone because of what someone else thinks of as right. The mind sometimes is as big of a limitation as physical handicap and sometimes different routes need to be taken to achieve the end result.

I have never met a man or woman alive who claimed: Ē22lr is a weak round for self defense, let me go down range and prove it to you. ď

At any rate thanks for all the comments even if I do disagree with some of them. Valid points for a large percentage of people but not for all. That is closed minded thinking in my opinion.
Keep up the great work

There has been a lot of good points in this thread (caliber-wise). Please follow up with her in a year or so. I'd be interested where this rabbit hole leads her!
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:11 PM
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Fellow septuagenarians may recall an interesting story about the use of a C*** Woodsman by a South African woman during the Mau-Mau uprising. It probably relates to this thread.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:13 PM
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Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:28 PM
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Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

I agree with you...

From the article

The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need.

More from the article:


She knew exactly what she wanted and made a choice.

Thanks!
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:50 PM
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Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns
Didn't the OP do exactly what your linked article recommend? The friend of the OP's wife had been to a gun store where they tried to force her to a particular type pistol. The OP let his wife's friend try different pistols. He let her pick the one she wanted to work with. He let her be in control of the decision.

ETA - Quote from the article... "The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need." -- Telling them they need a .38 Special is no different than telling them they need a .22.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:13 PM
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Like . . . . . . .
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:34 PM
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Not every one has the time, access to training or physical ability to master the Phoenix Eye or feared Leopard Paw.
Not every one is cut out to EDC a 1911
Some folks may not be qualified to drive a Mclaren 675LT Spider.
She may not be down with mastering the latest and greatest tactical training.
One thing for sure, is she got honest, unbiased exposure to multiple choices and selected the one she could employ now. She may like it so much she decides to get training to move up the caliber ladder.
One more responsible armed citizen seems like a win to me.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:41 PM
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Iíve never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .

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Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

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Old 10-10-2018, 08:43 PM
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Had a little technical difficulty with my penultimate (now antepenultimate) post. What disappeared was that I strongly approve of eb07's course of action, and the end result. However, I also appreciate Mister X's contributions, and believe that they should be carefully considered, as I believe eb07 effectively did. The fact (IMO) that eb07 came to the right conclusion at the right time does not even conflict with, much less subtract from, what Mister X has been asking everyone to consider.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:50 PM
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I picked up one of these for the grandsons to shoot...


I could use it to defend myself if that's what was handy at the time.


No worries

Browning 1911 22 LR Compact



I also like this ammunition, 40 gr HP 1435 FPS





.
Hey buddy, do you need another grandson?
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:55 PM
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Didn't the OP do exactly what your linked article recommend? The friend of the OP's wife had been to a gun store where they tried to force her to a particular type pistol. The OP let his wife's friend try different pistols. He let her pick the one she wanted to work with. He let her be in control of the decision.

ETA - Quote from the article... "The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need." -- Telling them they need a .38 Special is no different than telling them they need a .22.
By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
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By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

You don't learn to run before you learn to walk. You would think a self proclaimed self defense expert would know this basic building block of life. I am truly starting to believe you are a legend in your own mind and have no clue what you are talking about.

Next you will start challenging people to a duel


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Old 10-10-2018, 09:11 PM
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By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.
Fair enough, but donít you have your own set of biases and preconceptions that always end up with a centennial revolver as the solution?
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:33 PM
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By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.
So..... Exactly how/what was the OP supposed to do to familiarize this lady with a gun she was comfortable with?? I mean,, you've picked apart everything he has done as wrong but offered NO solutions to what you consider as problems??

And don't even say the first mistake was the caliber she chose.. Don't EVEN go there!! A .22LR CCI MiniMag is more than enough if the shooter unloads a full mag or cylinder, IF they hit center mass!!

So... Enlighten me... I'm all Eye's.... But Please.. No long Bloviations that don't really say anything. You've done enough of that....
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:34 PM
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Iíve never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .
.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:50 PM
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Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry  today I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry  today I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry  today I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry  today I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry  today  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.
Potentially the post of the month . . .

(Edit: Ayoob is a member. Awaiting his reply)
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Last edited by Muss Muggins; 10-10-2018 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Busted on Mass . . .
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