I’m not sure where this case will go and I will not speculate. But I do know that when we take the law into our own hands, we are no better than the thugs we despise.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I wouldn't say the shop owner took the law into his own hands. From his point of view, he was defending his store and himself. That's just self-defense.

Taking the law into his own hands would be baiting a criminal and laying in wait.

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Freedom isn't free.

Indicted and charged is not convicted. Whether the BLM uses the same rhetoric or not, your statement sure sounded like the prosecutors opening statement.

In the end this will play out and more will probably be revealed. Personally I still think the commissioner made a serious mistake and will likely be paying for it for quite some time.

True. But go back and read my post again.

I said “I will not speculate”. And I didn’t.

What I said after that was a statement. Nothing more.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Did the shooter think his position as a government official of some stripe would justify his actions? Doubt the jury will see it that way, especially in today's fevered environment.

The fly in the ointment here is the video is silent....

What if the perpetrator uttered a deadly threat to the shopkeeper???

It's just a big ol conundrum.......


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Two responses in one.
Oink: What the Florida statute and case law (and your political environment) will support in terms of the way I would charge it here (and, as I mentioned, have) is not really in my knowledge set, and while I could make a good effort to predict the legal analysis, it would be so hypothetical as to be of little use here. The law with which I am familiar is RCW 9A.56.190: Robbery—Definition.. It reads as follows: "A person commits robbery when he or she unlawfully takes personal property from the person of another or in his or her presence against his or her will by the use or threatened use of immediate force, violence, or fear of injury to that person or his or her property or the person or property of anyone. Such force or fear must be used to obtain or retain possession of the property, or to prevent or overcome resistance to the taking; in either of which cases the degree of force is immaterial. Such taking constitutes robbery whenever it appears that, although the taking was fully completed without the knowledge of the person from whom taken, such knowledge was prevented by the use of force or fear." The actual definition of Robbery 2
sections further along (RCW 9A.56.210) is real short: "A person is guilty of robbery in the second degree if he or she commits robbery." Our state association is pretty serious about good academic lawyering, and although the political tide is turning against us, especially in a certain part of the State where people in the system have been sissified (the I-5 effect), as a whole we are pretty aggressive. My office sure is - we have done things that make other offices stop and stare a few times (and been upheld). TO ME, what happened here would be a Robbery 1. ("A person is guilty of robbery in the first degree if:
(a) In the commission of a robbery or of immediate flight therefrom, he or she:
(i) Is armed with a deadly weapon; or
(ii) Displays what appears to be a firearm or other deadly weapon; or
(iii) Inflicts bodily injury; or ...") What it is or is not in Florida is obviously more important. However, it impacts how I assess the level of threat arguably presented by the offender.
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I will say I have considered one scenario that is about the most likely issue for me to experience outside my home or office: a robbery at my favorite pizza pickup place. They have been robbed before, and almost all of the employees are just kids from 16-20, working their way through HS/college; I am sure that they are unarmed. The offender would be LOUDLY challenged and told to drop the weapon, if that was an option, and LOUDLY told to run away if they did. The goal for me is the safety of the employees and customers. If we get there using that method, great; the cops can hunt him down later. That's my preference. If that is not going to work, for whatever reason, the plan will probably become louder.The offender drives that train. There are some aspects to the layout of the place that I have considered in terms of tactics that I won't get into.
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Rastoff: Good question. The shifting of the BoP (Burden of Proof) as to the crime charged and persuasion as to the defense is a matter of state law. Our law is not favorable to the prosecution, which does not bother me; I think too many people get charged with arguably legit uses of force. I have no idea what would be the process in Florida, although I think the majority rule is to make the defense raise it and provide enough proof of the defense to get the jury to conclude that the prosecution has not proven the crime BRD. (This can vary so much that I am speaking in general terms for good reason.) A prosecutor is supposed to assess the applicability of defenses and how they might impact a trial. Whether that assessment happened here I don't know; whether the assessment was sound I don't know. Only time will tell ... maybe.

That also ignores a very real issue in a case like this - there can be jury members who simply do not care about the offender at all, and as such even if a conviction would be sound, will never vote to convict the store owner. I've seen that with a couple cases here in WA - the conduct was iffy IMHO, but the defense made a good enough case that the juries, which obviously did not GAF, did not convict. One could suspect, but I can't prove, that the repugnant nature of the offender shot was such that no one on the jury considered it enough of a crime to convict the person who shot him. We also have far too few uses of lethal force by both cops and private citizens in this country, and the education about reality is badly flawed as a result (and as a result of other societal warts).

A proper investigation in a case such as this probably generates 300-500 pages of reports and statements, other documentary evidence like photos, and goodness knows what else. A friend's OIS was summarized in about 90 pages, but the actual reports, etc. totaled more than 1400. None of us have access to all that here, so speculating is merely that.

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NHI, 10-8.

I'm aware of the difference, thanks.

I don't care what it sounds like.

Good for you!

How do you feel about doing exactly the same thing you accused the shop owner of?

You seem to be playing judge and jury and condemning him as guilty based on what you've seen and read on the internet.

At least he was actually THERE...