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Old 10-21-2018, 09:19 PM
hotshot357 hotshot357 is offline
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I was using a 640 PRO for HD. I got thinking if I did need to use it,the outcome might not good. Would I forget to put on my glasses, would I even have time? So I decided to get one of the short "tactical" shotguns(firearms). I haven't got it set up yet but I should have it done this week. I'm going to install a light/laser combo.I'm not going to load it with any "hot" ammo and really thinking about using some mini shells in it. Any feed back out there from anyone that has one? Here is a pic of mine.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:42 PM
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I bought the Mossberg 590 Shockwave for HD and use #4 Shot shells in it.

The mini shells are ok but dont “short stroke” the Shotgun or your gonna have cycling issues.

I may be under powered in some perspectives but I guarantee 5 rounds being torched off in the middle of the night would make me piss myself.

I have not got a light setup yet but I will.

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Old 10-21-2018, 10:22 PM
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Sharp looking guns. IMO A laser is a must for HD if you need corrective lenses. For me the combination of darkness and not having g my glasses on makes iron sights useless.
As for using a pump gun for HD, to each their own but would not be one of my top five choices, one notch above lever action rifle.
Anyway, have fun decorating it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:53 PM
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With BAD eyes...............
a laser is a very helpful item.

Red if you are not color blind, then green as a option.

Who ever told you that you had to "AIM" a shotgun !!!
I got to meet that instructor..........!!
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:03 PM
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Just pointing out the obvious, but yes even with a shotgun you must still aim. Pointing a shotgun in the general direction is a myth. And you must still identify your target. So glasses are a must in you need them.

The “short” shotguns are quickly becoming accepted as a good home defense gun. But you need to be familiar with it and practice. The recoil is completely different.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:05 PM
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This is mine

UTG green laser/light combo on top. 8 pellet 00 buck for HD. OpSol adaptor and mini shells for fun.


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Old 10-21-2018, 11:08 PM
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I have a “riot” shotgun in both my house and shop. However, they’re not the best weapon for every home defense incident. I think you still need a handgun you can discreetly conceal, in case the one who knocks turns out to be a lost pizza delivery person.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:31 PM
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The old saying you don't need to aim with a shotgun is a myth. Up close with a SG the pattern is still tight and it isn't all that hard to miss a target when just shooting from the hip or straight out arm shot.

Next time you are out in the country and can do some shooting set out some filled water jugs. Try hitting them by shooting without aiming. Face the jug, hold the gun out and squeeze the trigger. I think you will be surprised how often you miss the jugs.

I have a bright flashlight attached to my Mossberg 500 and I figure if the light beam is right on the target I should be good.

BTW The Mossberg 500 pump has a mule kicking recoil reputation and it lives up to that. I have recoil pads on mine and they make a big difference in felt recoil.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike in Reedley View Post
I have a “riot” shotgun in both my house and shop. However, they’re not the best weapon for every home defense incident. I think you still need a handgun you can discreetly conceal, in case the one who knocks turns out to be a lost pizza delivery person.
If you don't know who is knocking on your door why are you opening it?
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:11 AM
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I have a 500 that I redid for HD. I don't think you can do much better than a 12 gauge with buckshot. Set it up right and your weapon light is always right there, no need to look for it or have to use one hand for the gun and one for the light. Depending on what you choose it isn't the shortest option available, but in my opinion one of the best. I have 3" 00 buckshot in mine. The light is set up so all I need to do is press down with my thumb already on the pump and it comes on. Also added a night sight .

Mossberg hd.jpg
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:54 AM
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As shotguns require two hands, a weapon-mounted light is a must.

Other thing is, I sincerely believe that your home defense firearm should be whatever you shoot the most for fun. I don't think shotguns are so magical that they don't require practice. I do think that an intruder would find me a hell of a lot more dangerous with a double-stack 9mm or low-pressure N-frame than a shotgun. Simply because it's probably been nearly 10 years since I've fired a shotgun.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:38 AM
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I don't care for the magic "non-shotguns" a 20 bore with a short barrel and the under arm stance will do it for me. The short shells are often unavailable and need an adapter to be reliable. Best use of short shells I've seen was on the butt cuff of a single barrel.
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Who needs to work with his shotgun now that the temperature has broken, or at least bent toward less than broil here in NE FL.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:53 AM
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Mine is a Riot Gun from Parma Ohio Police. Winchester 1300 Pump that I put an extended Mag tube on. I stager dear slugs and buck shot in it. My house is alarmed so I would grab the Snub first. When we used to camp in the woods the Riot gun was always close.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:57 AM
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The tactical shotguns that a few years ago would have been classified as sawed-off shotguns are intriguing and serve a law abiding purpose. Sadly, one will NOT find a haven in my home.

I am tired of getting caught on the short end when politicians can amend my rights and liberties. It is getting to the point where a rattlesnake is earning more of my respect and trust than politicians.

In NJ, prior to 1992, my 20 round magazines were legal. Between 1992 and 2018, my 15 round magazines and my post-ban AR and M1A were legal target rifles. Now with the new generation of liberal/socialist politicians, I am potentially facing prison and financial loss possessing what has been legal.

I also realise that a realistic solution to this changing wind politics is to move out of the state, but it is not always that easy! I am tired of the government "giveth and taketh away" attitude!
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:15 AM
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I have been using short shotgun shells in my WP shotguns for the last couple of decades.

We have two 12" Remington 870WPs and a 14" Mosberg 590 Marine

We were originally using the old Remington 1 7/8" shells. The 870s required a different (factory supplied) elevator installed to avoid the shells doubling feeding. This setup also worked for the Aguilla mini shells. I have been led to believe that the new 870s have this issue under control without changing the elevator however I have not had one in my hands yet to confirm or deny that information.

The Mossberg 590 family of shotguns always worked just fine with both the short Remingtons and the Aguilla Minis straight from the box.

Obviously the mini shells carry a smaller payload than normal 12 gauge shotgun shells so you will have less pellets on target with each trigger pull. You can also expect a reduction in recoil as well when comparing the mini shells to the full-size brothers .

Make sure that you and anyone in your family that may be called upon to use this firearm gets some practice. The recoil is very different than what you are used to from your Model 60 Pro and everyone needs to know what to expect.

If recoil is substantially objectionable, you could load the ShockWave with Less Lethal 00 Buck. The rubber buckshot has tremendously reduced recoil. You just need to remember that it also has tremendously reduced impact on target
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
The tactical shotguns that a few years ago would have been classified as sawed-off shotguns are intriguing and serve a law abiding purpose. Sadly, one will NOT find a haven in my home.

I am tired of getting caught on the short end when politicians can amend my rights and liberties. It is getting to the point where a rattlesnake is earning more of my respect and trust than politicians.

In NJ, prior to 1992, my 20 round magazines were legal. Between 1992 and 2018, my 15 round magazines and my post-ban AR and M1A were legal target rifles. Now with the new generation of liberal/socialist politicians, I am potentially facing prison and financial loss possessing what has been legal.

I also realise that a realistic solution to this changing wind politics is to move out of the state, but it is not always that easy! I am tired of the government "giveth and taketh away" attitude!
In NH we would welcome you with open arms. We still have those freedoms that NJ has stripped you of.
good luck
Jim
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
If you don't know who is knocking on your door why are you opening it?
To see who is there. The alternatives would be to never answer the door and hope the one who knocks goes away. Or, answer the door every time with shotgun in hand, like some gun store commando wanna be.
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:10 PM
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I believe the close range terminal effects of a 20 ga w/00 buck are indistinguishable from a 12 ga.

The lighter 20 ga. gun offers reduced recoil and easier handling.

Slugs for home defense? Then why use a shotgun?

Smaller shot = reduced penetration. Pick your load carefully.

My HD shotgun is locked up. My HD pistol is immediately available at night. Pistol first, then if time, shotgun also, right after 911 (<4 minute response).

I do not plan to leave the safety afforded by my solid core/hardware reinforced bedroom door. I have a number of active and passive deterrents in place that reduce the likelihood of a home invasion or burglary.

And I chose to live in a state with low crime that supports my right to defend myself and home in better than a “common sense” fashion.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:17 PM
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I have read, (whether true or not I do not know) that 00 buck out od a 12 ga at about 20’ which is about typical shot for HD has a “spread” of about 4 incbes of the size of a mans clinched fist.

If that is true, the idea that you will not have to aim is complete male bovine excrement.

The use of a shotgun is less about not needing to aim, but rather over penetration. Even 00 buck that mksses, I have to believe will be less likely to leave the home than a 9mm or 45 acp. I suspect 00 buck will make ot through both sides of an interior drywall wall. Not sure about say #4 shot. But #4 shot won’t have the stopping power of 00 buck or most handgun rounds.

Every gun and cartridge has pros/cons. Everyone has to make their own choice what will work “best” for them and their family. In some states handguns are so discouraged, thwt shotgun may be the “best” of available limited number of choices.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:32 PM
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My HD shotgun is a 21" barrel Remington Youth Model 20 gauge pump loaded with #3 Buckshot purchased from Walmart. It's light enough that I can hold it with one hand and open doors and, if it matters, it looks like a typical hunting shotgun instead of a 'Rambo Assault Master Tactical Death Slayer".

Last edited by Farmer17; 10-22-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:50 PM
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Default Shotgun Load Penetration

Note that these are bare gel shots, not cloth covered.

These look like standard ballistic gel blocks 6x6x16”.

Note penetration depth and pattern spread at 10’ (3.3 yards), which appears to be about 2-3”. At 20’ you could expect that spread to almost double, but it depends a lot on barrel length, choke and load. Some loads do not have shot cups and may spread faster.

Liveleak.com - San Diego Police Officer With Good Aim (/Luck) Kills Man Who Had Shot His Ex-Wife's Family And Had Just Tried To Kill Her As
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:51 PM
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If you find the minis shot shells are not reliable then you need this - OPSol(R) TEXAS.

I have no interest in a short shotgun with no stock . It does help to aim a shot gun even at inside of a house distances you do need to aim as you could miss the way I seen the advertising videos of the mossy so I keep a stock on mine . I can always tuck it between arm and ribs if its too long but some think this 12 or 20ga handguns are the cats butt . I think what the leave in the litter box !!

I spent a lot of my youth hunting deer in south florida swamps using a longer barrel but you learn to pattern brands of buck shot just like with a .22lr to find what works best for you . Remington 2 3/4" 1 buck works best for me but at a short range remingtons 4 bucks bad news too .
MY old 12ga has a 18" barrel on it and is filled with Remington 2 3/4" 4 buck . I would hate to short change some one the effect of 27 pellets of .24" fired at 1225fps from an 20" barrel .

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Old 10-22-2018, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in Reedley View Post
To see who is there. The alternatives would be to never answer the door and hope the one who knocks goes away. Or, answer the door every time with shotgun in hand, like some gun store commando wanna be.
The idea I was getting at was to positively identify the person knocking before opening the door. I can answer the door without opening the door.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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The idea I was getting at was to positively identify the person knocking before opening the door. I can answer the door without opening the door.
So do you answer the door every time with shotgun in hand? That’s the point I’m getting at.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:21 PM
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I sold off my shotguns and rifles several years ago since I just didn't see a practical need for them anymore. I took at look at these short shotguns when they came out and they didn't change my mind. I'll stick with my handguns and would feel pretty well armed with just a 640 snub(I myself own a few airweights), although I do also have a few Glocks I keep handy.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:02 PM
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This is my Home Defense firearm.



I had to choose between the Taurus Judge, S&W Governor, and Mossberg Shockwave, but ultimately the Judge won due to the fact that I could keep it right at my bedside for easy access and it was significantly cheaper than than the Governor at about half the price without being of significantly lower quality, believe it or not.
Mine is the "Magnum" version, which is just a standard Judge with an even longer cylinder to accept 3" shells, not to be confused with the Raging Judge which can handle .454 Casull.

I'd still like to get a Mossberg Shockwave 12 Gauge eventually though, especially now that it's available with more durable finishes.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:08 PM
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I had a shockwave for the cool factor and because I hoped I could get good enough with it that I could use it as a close in slug gun when camping in Montana and parts of Wyoming. My thoughts on it are as follows:

They are not intuitive to point shoot from close in. Whereas with most rifles and shotguns I can hipfire and get reasonably on target at close range, the shockwave was quite difficult. As with other shotguns, these still have a tight pattern close in and will need to be aimed to hit your target. This brings me to the next point:

If you're holding it out in front of you to see the bead and aim, in a way that you're not going to smack yourself in the chin under recoil (ask me how I know!) you're coming close to, or surpassing, the length of a standard stocked shotgun without any of the benefits of the full stocked shotgun. With the standard shotgun, you can also tuck it in under your arm and have a short length going around corners and whatnot. I came to this conclusion before watching the following youtube video, but these guys explain it a lot better than I do:


You also lose the one-handed ability that goes along with having a handgun, and have to deal with the slow loading process (though you could of course keep it loaded, or at least the tube loaded, I personally do not like doing this).

They are fun guns to have around, and I'll eventually have a Tac14 wood variant, but as a solely cool factor gun rather than a defensive tool. My opinions are also worth exactly what you paid for them, and if you practice a lot you might get great with them.

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Old 10-22-2018, 08:24 PM
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While it's pretty far from "tacticool", this is my idea of the perfect HD shotgun:
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:26 PM
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But this is the one I grab if I need to get up in the middle of the night:
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:02 PM
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DISCLAIMER: The following post is a general statement directed at no one in particular, intended for the purpose of clearing confusion/misconceptions in regards to short-barreled firearms, particularly that of the Mossberg Shockwave/Remington Tac-14.

I think the problem with the Shockwave/Tac-14 has less to do with the firearms themselves and more to do with general misconceptions in regards to the application of short-barreled firearms.

If you try to use a firearm with a short-barrel and a pistol grip the same way/under the same conditions as you would a full-length firearm with a shoulder stock, then obviously it's not going to work as well.
You'd think that goes without saying, but apparently it doesn't, especially when even trained professionals make the same mistake.
What's more, just because a short-barrel firearm with a pistol grip doesn't function/perform as well as a full-length firearm with a shoulder stock when used in a similar manner does not make it "impractical" or a "novelty" or a "gimmick" and most of all "useless" like certain folks often write them off as, it merely means that they have a different manual of operation.

Firearms such as the Shockwave and Tac-14 work best as close-range self-defense tools, specifically indoors. They have served Law Enforcement very well in that niche for several decades, but their specific manual of operation is practically unknown to civilians because up until very recently such firearms were rather costly and tedious to obtain.
The fact of the matter is, such firearms weren't designed nor intended for long-range use, but at extremely close indoor ranges that a S.W.A.T. team would find themselves in, hence the short barrels. The barrels are short for the sake of maneuverability in cramped quarters, to be fired at ranges in which aiming is unnecessary as it is impractical, yet still offer the same devastating power of a 12 Gauge. Which brings me to my next point...

Contrary to popular belief, short barrels do not adversely affect low pressure cartridges such as shotgun shells in terms of velocity to any severe degree. As a matter of fact, when it comes to the 12 Gauge, anything past 12" begets diminishing returns in terms of velocity gain, so much so that out of your standard 18" barrel the amount of velocity you gain over a 12" barrel is in the double-digits, but hey, don't take my word for it...

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Old 10-22-2018, 10:21 PM
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DISCLAIMER: The following post is a general statement directed at no one in particular, intended for the purpose of clearing confusion/misconceptions in regards to short-barreled firearms, particularly that of the Mossberg Shockwave/Remington Tac-14.

I think the problem with the Shockwave/Tac-14 has less to do with the firearms themselves and more to do with general misconceptions in regards to the application of short-barreled firearms.

If you try to use a firearm with a short-barrel and a pistol grip the same way/under the same conditions as you would a full-length firearm with a shoulder stock, then obviously it's not going to work as well.
You'd think that goes without saying, but apparently it doesn't, especially when even trained professionals make the same mistake.
What's more, just because a short-barrel firearm with a pistol grip doesn't function/perform as well as a full-length firearm with a shoulder stock when used in a similar manner does not make it "impractical" or a "novelty" or a "gimmick" and most of all "useless" like certain folks often write them off as, it merely means that they have a different manual of operation.

Firearms such as the Shockwave and Tac-14 work best as close-range self-defense tools, specifically indoors. They have served Law Enforcement very well in that niche for several decades, but their specific manual of operation is practically unknown to civilians because up until very recently such firearms were rather costly and tedious to obtain.
The fact of the matter is, such firearms weren't designed nor intended for long-range use, but at extremely close indoor ranges that a S.W.A.T. team would find themselves in, hence the short barrels. The barrels are short for the sake of maneuverability in cramped quarters, to be fired at ranges in which aiming is unnecessary as it is impractical, yet still offer the same devastating power of a 12 Gauge. Which brings me to my next point...

Contrary to popular belief, short barrels do not adversely affect low pressure cartridges such as shotgun shells in terms of velocity to any severe degree. As a matter of fact, when it comes to the 12 Gauge, anything past 12" begets diminishing returns in terms of velocity gain, so much so that out of your standard 18" barrel the amount of velocity you gain over a 12" barrel is in the double-digits, but hey, don't take my word for it...

Energy by the Inch The Great Shotgun Chop of 2007
I've seen plenty of police/military/various agency trade in normal and short barreled shotguns, but they always seem to have a stock except for the various breaching configurations (if the purpose of it is to remove locks/hinges, yeah a stock isn't really that necessary). Do you have examples of widespread issuing of short, stockless shotguns (pistol grip only or the "raptor" grip of the current Shockwave/tac14)?
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:30 PM
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Bad choice. They are toys. Get something with a stock on it.

Secondly, pump shotguns are experts tools and require extensive training to master, more so than pistols or rifles or semi auto shotguns.

Get a Benelli M2 or Beretta 1301 if you want a REAL home defense tactical shotgun.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:40 PM
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Bad choice. They are toys. Get something with a stock on it.

Secondly, pump shotguns are experts tools and require extensive training to master, more so than pistols or rifles or semi auto shotguns.

Get a Benelli M2 or Beretta 1301 if you want a REAL home defense tactical shotgun.
So I guess my Stoeger Coach gun isn’t a REAL home defense tactical shotgun?
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:49 PM
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Always get a kick out of posters who describe a firearm as a "Toy". A lawman should know the gun in question has a very defined range of use, but is hardly a toy. The birds head grip and trench gun design has been proven useful throughout history.
P.S. S.B Tactical has a arm brace stock & grip kit available for the Shockwave and Tac
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:05 PM
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Always get a kick out of posters who describe a firearm as a "Toy". A lawman should know the gun in question has a very defined range of use, but is hardly a toy. The birds head grip and trench gun design has been proven useful throughout history.
P.S. S.B Tactical has a arm brace stock & grip kit available for the Shockwave and Tac
Yeah, that's a good point that should've been mentioned earlier. I'm a bit concerned about my current area's political climate with regard to self defense so I'm not going to add one, but if you are somewhere that respects your rights a bit more than Denver one of these with a "brace" would be fantastic and I'd say a true improvement over an 18" pump.

I do want to make it clear that I'm not totally down on the normal shockwaves. They still put pellets where you point it, I just don't see it (in it's stock configuration) as an advantage in a home defense type situation where storage space isn't an issue over a normal cheap pump (whatever posurp 590 or 870 is running at $200 that particular day). As was seen in that bizarre texas dumpster shooting, they'll still kill someone.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:09 AM
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So do you answer the door every time with shotgun in hand? That’s the point I’m getting at.
IF I'm dressed there's a Glock 26 in my pocket so that's a moot point. If someone knocks on my door I ask who it is and if I don't know them or it's someone I'm not expecting I tell them I'm not interested. I do all of this without opening the door.

If things are so tense that I feel the need to go to the door with my gun drawn I probably shouldn't be opening the door.
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:03 AM
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On the topic of the Shockwave as a HD choice, adding a pic rail on top is a nice spot for an inexpensive Truglo laser if you wish to remain dark and have an aiming point.
Also CDM Gear makes a nice tube mount to add a weapon light if you wish to keep the strap and have a light.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:59 PM
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Always get a kick out of posters who describe a firearm as a "Toy".
I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who unironically refers to a firearm as a "toy" probably isn't mature or responsible enough to own one given their blatant lack of respect for the inherent lethality of firearms in general, and probably shouldn't have children either.
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:08 PM
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The tactical shotguns that a few years ago would have been classified as sawed-off shotguns are intriguing and serve a law abiding purpose. Sadly, one will NOT find a haven in my home.

I am tired of getting caught on the short end when politicians can amend my rights and liberties. It is getting to the point where a rattlesnake is earning more of my respect and trust than politicians.

In NJ, prior to 1992, my 20 round magazines were legal. Between 1992 and 2018, my 15 round magazines and my post-ban AR and M1A were legal target rifles. Now with the new generation of liberal/socialist politicians, I am potentially facing prison and financial loss possessing what has been legal.

I also realise that a realistic solution to this changing wind politics is to move out of the state, but it is not always that easy! I am tired of the government "giveth and taketh away" attitude!
Kind of off-topic but I feel for you, and I understand the thought process/logic influencing the decisions you make on what you buy. Even here in the very gun-friendly state of NH, I think about these things too. Politics are ever-changing. I don’t want to find myself in a position where I have to sell something off quickly, or worse surrender it without compensation, or else bury it somewhere, to avoid potential prosecution. I do take this into consideration nowadays with regards to new purchases. If I see any kind of probability of it making a ‘banned’ list, in my lifetime, I won’t buy it. But I guess we’re getting to a point, slowly, where that could include almost any semi-auto anything. Not yet, but someplaces its getting scary-close. Sad.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:07 PM
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I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make any sense to me when folks avoid purchasing a firearm out of fear of it being made illegal, especially when that could potentially happen to a wide assortment of firearms in a worst case scenario.

Seriously, you might as well just stop purchasing firearms altogether with that attitude.

Personally, I don't see the Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac-14 getting banned, especially not when they already managed to make it onto the market during a year in which terrorist shootings were at an all-time high, with anti-gun politicians using the coffins of every last victim as a soapbox. If politicians wanted to go after them, then they would have done so already. The gun-grabbers don't care about 5-shot pump action shotguns, regardless of barrel length, they care about high capacity semiautomatic rifles like the AR/AK platforms.

Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights by buying the guns you want, remain vigilant of any/all new potential bills which may attempt to rob us of our 2nd Amendment rights, and keep up the fight against gun control. The moment you succumb to fear and start basing your purchasing decisions on the possibility of it being illegalized thinking that it's hopeless is the moment they've won.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who unironically refers to a firearm as a "toy" probably isn't mature or responsible enough to own one given their blatant lack of respect for the inherent lethality of firearms in general, and probably shouldn't have children either.
It's a metaphor, the same as a jacked-up truck being a big boy toy. Calling a gun "my new toy" and being immature or irresponsible are not one and the same.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
With BAD eyes...............
a laser is a very helpful item.

Red if you are not color blind, then green as a option.

Who ever told you that you had to "AIM" a shotgun !!!
I got to meet that instructor..........!!
You still need to aim a shotgun.
Fire a few shots on targets at the same distances found in your house. You will ne surprised how small some of the patterns are.
Some will be no larger than the palm of your hand.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lrrifleman View Post
The tactical shotguns that a few years ago would have been classified as sawed-off shotguns are intriguing and serve a law abiding purpose. Sadly, one will NOT find a haven in my home.

I am tired of getting caught on the short end when politicians can amend my rights and liberties. It is getting to the point where a rattlesnake is earning more of my respect and trust than politicians.

In NJ, prior to 1992, my 20 round magazines were legal. Between 1992 and 2018, my 15 round magazines and my post-ban AR and M1A were legal target rifles. Now with the new generation of liberal/socialist politicians, I am potentially facing prison and financial loss possessing what has been legal.

I also realise that a realistic solution to this changing wind politics is to move out of the state, but it is not always that easy! I am tired of the government "giveth and taketh away" attitude!
What is there about living in New Jersey that makes it so wonderful, and worth putting up with the high taxes and encroachments on your freedoms?
The state is run by Socialists/Communists, and the tax dollars you pay in every year only help fund the insanity.

And they use them against YOU.

So I have to deduce that you are not really bothered by the political climate there too much after all.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:08 PM
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So I guess my Stoeger Coach gun isn’t a REAL home defense tactical shotgun?
It has a stock on it, that you can put on your shoulder and cheek, for three points of contact right? Then yes,it's a good Home defense option. A little low on capacity, but you can overcome that with layered home secirity, reloading practice, and proper defensive ammo selection. It will be just fine in 98% of defensive encounters you are likely to find yourself in.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CalmerThanYou View Post
Always get a kick out of posters who describe a firearm as a "Toy". A lawman should know the gun in question has a very defined range of use, but is hardly a toy. The birds head grip and trench gun design has been proven useful throughout history.
P.S. S.B Tactical has a arm brace stock & grip kit available for the Shockwave and Tac

Pretty inflammatory comments there slick.

I've played with these "firearms" a plently. No doubt I likely have several thousand shells down range in them more than you do. You know, real world experience.

I actually own the tac 14 that comes straight from the Remington factory with the SB pistol brace. It's every bit as good as a SBS stocked 14" 870. The birds head grip on the other hand, is a severe impairment to proper home defense. In home defense only accurate hits count, and the birds head grip is quite difficult to get good hits with, which is why I described it as a toy. In my professional opinion, you would be better off getting a full stocked 18" barrel shotgun as they are superior in every way besides concealment. I have seen numerous people completely miss the target shooting these things at even as close as 5 yards.

Yeah, the guns are cool blasters. Picking a bird's head griped firearm for home defense? You could do better.

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Old 10-23-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who unironically refers to a firearm as a "toy" probably isn't mature or responsible enough to own one given their blatant lack of respect for the inherent lethality of firearms in general, and probably shouldn't have children either.

Sigh. Guns that are referred to as toys, means they are cool blasters. They are fun to shoot, fun to own, but hardly any experts in the field of tactics and weapons and defensive firearm use would recommend such gun for serious use. I.E., home defense.

Go find ANY experts in the field, any of them, that currently recommend using a tac 14 or shockwave for home defense. Good luck. Sure such a weapon could be successful wielded in such a capacity, but you would be better off with a fully stocked long gun.

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Old 10-23-2018, 09:53 PM
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Oddly enough Bubba we are not that far off on agreement.
A stock regardless of it's variety is indeed a major point of stabilization, which is super important with any non-hand gun and shotgun in particular.

As you likely noted I brought up the brace as a hint to shockwave and Tac owners as a way to improve the gun and remain legal in many states.

I will politely refrain from responding to the number of shells down range, amount of real world experience, slick reference, and loud mouth remarks in hope you let me off with a written warning. I was raised by a lawman so I know it is pointless to argue with them
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:53 PM
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This looks like an interesting weapon. Too bad the price point is so high and no one around me has any that I can check out.

Thoughts?

V3 TAC-13 | Remington

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Old 10-23-2018, 10:00 PM
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It has a stock on it, that you can put on your shoulder and cheek, for three points of contact right? Then yes,it's a good Home defense option. A little low on capacity, but you can overcome that with layered home secirity, reloading practice, and proper defensive ammo selection. It will be just fine in 98% of defensive encounters you are likely to find yourself in.
Wasn’t asking for your opinion or advice. I was addressing your statement about REAL home defense shotguns.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:47 AM
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It's a metaphor, the same as a jacked-up truck being a big boy toy. Calling a gun "my new toy" and being immature or irresponsible are not one and the same.
Context is everything.

There's a difference between calling a firearm a "toy" in a positive way in context to taking it out to the range and calling a firearm a "toy" as a derogatory statement in regards to its effectiveness as a weapon. It is the latter which I have a problem with.
Lacking a shoulder stock doesn't make a 12 Gauge any less deadly, just more difficult to aim and hit long-range targets with, which in the context of the thread, (i.e. Home Defense) is completely irrelevant.

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Sigh. Guns that are referred to as toys, means they are cool blasters. They are fun to shoot, fun to own, but hardly any experts in the field of tactics and weapons and defensive firearm use would recommend such gun for serious use. I.E., home defense.

Go find ANY experts in the field, any of them, that currently recommend using a tac 14 or shockwave for home defense. Good luck. Sure such a weapon could be successful wielded in such a capacity, but you would be better off with a fully stocked long gun.
Experts seldom adopt new firearms and typically do not reflect the experience, needs, or requirements of your average joe who is just looking for a good Home Defense firearm.
That which works best in the hands of a highly experienced veteran shooter does not necessarily work best in the hands of your average homeowner.

Personally, I don't base my purchases on the opinions of experts, I buy what fits my individual needs and will work best in my hands. A conventional shotgun with a shoulder stock and an 18" barrel would be difficult to maneuver within the confines of my home, especially in the dead of night after suffering a rude awakening by someone breaking in, so something shorter makes more sense for me as an individual. If the experts disagree, then that makes no difference to me because I'm just trying to defend myself, not impress others.

Last edited by Echo40; 10-24-2018 at 10:04 AM.
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