I carried basically 24/7 until I retired. During the last 12+ years I worked 8 years as a Security Analyst for a large corporation and was not permitted to carry at work. Otherwise I pocket carry when I leave the house. Quite a few of my old PD co-workers stopped carrying the day they retired but most were not "gun people" to start with.

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Support your Police, & NRA

100% of the time on and off duty. Just last week I went to get a DOT physical for a part time job that I am going to do driving this season. I guy walked into the waiting room while I was sitting there and said, Tom?. I said yes. He knew me from being Chief of Police in my town. We had a long conversation and still do not know who he was!! I was UnderSheriff and Jail Administrator at Eagle County Colorado prior to that for 16 years. I used to run onto guys all the time off duty that knew me from being incarcerated in my jail. In many cases I had no clue who they were.

Chalk me up as another one who carried off-duty each and every day while on the job. I retired a little over a year ago and still carry at all times when out of the house. It's just part of my attire. The reality is... caca could happen and does happen.

I would venture to say that about 50% of the agents in my office when I was working carried off-duty. And, I would put the number of retirees I know that carry daily at about 50% as well.

Furthermore, I also carry an impact device on a daily basis when out an about. Like many communities in our country, ours has seen an increase in crime perpetrated by tweakers and/or homeless types. Some have demonstrated aggresive tendencies on occasion against folks just minding their own business. Hence, I prefer to have another option at my disposal to handle a situation wherein the presentation of a firearm may not be necessarily prudent.

Fortunately, I live in a state that is not too restrictive in what one (LE or not) can carry on their person.

I'm not a LEO , nor have been in the past . But I will tell you , having worked as a cowboy most of my adult life , sometimes miles and miles away from civilization all by myself , day in and day out . I can tell you that when someone says that " the wild west is dead " , don't believe it ! ! ! The last ranch I was on , I packed a 357 on a hip holster and a 30-30 on my saddle , for a very good reason . I still carry today , Regards, Paul

I am retired and carry 99% of the time I am in the US and while working in the the Philippines and other countries where I am required to.

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213th FBINA

My last 6 years before I retired I was the chief firearms instructor for my department of 400 armed personnel. Prior to my getting the job, all the training staff did was run an annual qualification. I initiated quarterly firearms training, shotgun qualification, rifle qualification, and off-duty weapon qualification. The shotgun, rifle, and OD qual were optional but the department did require personnel who wanted to carry those weapons to qualify with them.

I was very saddened to see something less than 50% of the deputies attended OD qualification. That held true until I retired.

I started carrying off duty the day I graduated from the academy and was sworn in. Except for being in the hospital for surgery (LOL) I've carried every day since it became legal. Arizona did not have a carry permit until Sept. of 1994. Prior to that even retired LEOs could not legally carry concealed and I didn't. I was one of the early people to get a permit and have had one ever since.

Of the three retired deputies I stayed in touch with once CC permits were available, one carried all the time, one some of the time and one hardly at all.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

My great uncle was Detroit PD from the late 60s till the 2000s. He always carried OD. In the early days he carried some sort of .38 snobby until he got into an off duty shooting. He was picking my mom up from work while she was pregnant with me. He tried intervening in a car jacking. However it happened (you know family legends) he put rounds into the windshield and they didnt penetrate. He carried some sort of .45 after that on duty and off. When I hung around him the most in the early 90s its was a 645. I know he carried that gun till they pried it out of his fingers snd stuffed a glock 22 in his hand.
When he first retired he still carried. As age and medical conditions have taken hold he has stopped. We dont discuss it but he used to wear a satin baseball style jacket everywhere and he doesnt any more. He doesnt like change so I dont see him modifying his form of carry now either.

24 years active with 3 agencies. Always carried off-duty. Retired 24 years ago next month, started a business, made a conscious effort to NOT CARRY all the time (but always had a pistol handy in the truck). Fast forward a couple of years, then every day's newspaper reported another drive-by shooting, every evening news program reported another home invasion robbery, couple of friends robbed in broad daylight while walking to their cars in supermarket parking lots, friend's wife shot during a carjacking. Decided enough was more than enough, pulled out the hardware and geared up. Haven't left the house without a side arm for the past 20 years.

Friends ask "why do you still carry a gun?". I tell them that I carry homeowners insurance but I don't want my house to burn down, I carry car insurance but I don't look forward to being in an accident, and I carry a pistol but I don't want to be in a gun fight. Some things are better to have and never need than to need and not have.

Been retired for 15+ years. I always carry except at work because I am a federal government employee.

A friend went up the ranks from patrolman to chief and before he retired his comment to me was that he couldn't wait to give them back his gun! He was a jogger and lives in the same town he served. He's typical of officers I worked with and know.


For most of the time I served, I only carried OD when I was visiting certain cities. Since I was a part-timer, my full-time job was at a company that forbid weapons, so I had to comply. Since I started working as a Constable it's 100% except where the law forbids it. I keep up LEOSA as well. One day I'm in the local supermarket, put the groceries on the conveyor (but can't see the cashier due to racks of candy/etc.). When I moved up, my mind went "oh ****!" it was a woman who we arrested during an eviction. Yup, it can happen anywhere and according to the PD, she suffered from some mental issues (she didn't last at the supermarket either).

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MA Gun Law & NRA Instructor

Off duty in my 1,400 sworn department is a very small percentage. Mostly only the gun guys carry off duty

Even more rare are people who carry a back up on duty

I carry a backup on duty and I always carry one weapon off duty

Did my annual LEOSA shoot today at St. Louis County PD range. They do four dates a year for their retired and the area fed retired. Me and two of my former coworkers the only fed retirees. About a dozen county retirees. Extrapolating that out, maybe a hundred over the year. Like I said earlier, the LEO percentage is about the same as the general population. . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I came from a dept with around 10K sworn. We have an annual retired get together and 600+ qualify there for HR 218. My agency qualifies HR 218 every Thursday and approx 25 retirees per week. Now that I live in Idaho the LE friends here most shoot the 218 course and carry in Idaho where no permit for carry is required.

Retired.

I carry a retirement weapon close to what might be called 98% of the time.

Of course, back when I was working I was considered one of the "gun nuts" at my medium-size agency. (Maybe only 400+ armed, but it's been constantly growing since I retired.) I served as one of the firearms training staff for about 26 years, including both before and after retirement (continued to serve as a consultant and reserve). I think more than a few of our folks secretly suspected I slept in a bed filled with guns.

Anyway, the times I don't carry a weapon are choices made based upon specific situations and circumstances.

A couple examples would be when going to the beach with my granddaughter (because we're in bathing suits and go in the surf); and while visiting various breweries and distilleries on road trips and sampling their wares (and I often arrange to not have to drive myself on those excursions, too).

I attended a recent Beer March in a local Coastal town (they didn't call it a pub crawl ), where a lot of craft brewery products could be sampled at various participating pubs and restaurants around the town. I also enjoyed lunch during the event, having a pleasant Macallan 18 yr Scotch with the sampled beer. My wife dropped me off and picked me up. No driving and no CCW seemed quite prudent.

I've heard in earlier training (10 years ago) that some "national" statistics previously suggested that no more than 20% of actively employed cops carried off-duty weapons.

I've seen it ebb & flow among the cops I personally knew before and after my retirement. One thing I noticed that was that if a cop was inclined to carry an off-duty before retirement, it seemed more likely they'd do so after retirement.

When I was helping qualify our folks for both retiree ID card renewals and annual LEOSA quals I noticed the sessions seemed to fill pretty easily. While I took a break starting a couple years ago from serving as a trainer, I've been told by current trainers at my former agency that the number of folks who have retired from outside agencies who want to schedule LEOSA qual sessions has continued to increase. So much so that they're talking about having to start charging some sort of minimal fee to "outside" retirees to try and help offset the growing cost of extra range supplies and additional instructors.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I know several LEO's, some of them very close.

Not one of them carries as religiously as I do (non-LEO). I carry 100 percent of the time, every time it's legal to be armed. I even carry in the home at all times.

Most LEO's are not 'gun folks'. Most people are not 'gun folks'. Most gun owners are not 'gun folks'.

As for carrying in the domicile: Massad Ayoob wrote a very interesting argument defending carry in the home. He noted that there are some LEO's that he knows who did not carry in their homes, until after they saw the horrific aftermath of home invasion murders--thereafter, quite a few made a habit of carrying in the home.

I'm probably a rare bird, in that my carry pieces have always been full sized handguns (S&W N-frames, L-frames, 1911's, SIG P220, Beretta 92fs). One just gets used to it.

Retired/I still carry every day.There are 4 retired officers that live on my block including me.All still carry everyday 1 from Illinois,2 from Arizona and 1 from California/ Washington.

Here, in Spain, officers can carry OD, but when retired they can't carry, not even own a handgun. Those LE officers who support gun control should take note: antigunners don't have a limit. If they remove all the guns from civilians, LE officers will be their next target. In my country, some politicians have already proposed to forbid cops to carry OD.

Was talking to a Lieutenant of a small town last night...he is a "gun person", works part time for a gunsmith friend of his and shoots IDPA just to keep sharp. I asked him the above questions as he knows a lot of the officers in the area as he grew up with many of them... He said less than 10% of those he knows carry OD or after retirement...

No surprise.

I'm having dinner next weekend with another LEO friend and will see what he has to say...not expecting anything different however.

...and thank you all for all the answers and observations....

Bob

I work for the Chicago PD and do not know anyone that does not carry off duty. I also work for a collar county Sheriffs Office and am amazed at the number of suburban coppers that don't carry at all off duty. Most don't even carry their stars off duty, just the ID card tucked away in their wallets somewhere. I really don't get that.

Percent of LEO Rangers at my park who carried on duty: 100
Percent of LEO Rangers at my park who carried off duty: 100
Since retirement, I carry 100 percent of the time either my Smith and Wesson Model 66-4 or my Sig p220.

I did 2 years in Kosovo and 3 years in Afghanistan. I was an international police officer in K'vo and a police advisor in the sandbox. I had a Beretta 9mm both places and a M4 in Afghanistan. The only times I had to unload was when flying on company aircraft or when on military bases.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I've carried on & off for the 35 yrs I've been on the dept. It is not mandated but highly encouraged by admin. I would say that when I started about 50% carried off duty regularly. Now days I'd bet the percentage is 80-90%.

Retirees.....I'm guessing that only about 50% carry regularly; and the longer they've been retired the less they carry. I plan on continuing to carry when I hang it up (soon hopefully).

My Question: Is a police officer a "Police Officer" 24/7. Is he or she obligated to prevent a crime while "Off Duty" ?
Thanks Jim

Retired from a large federal agency 25 (!) years ago. From 1972 onwards to today, if you turned me over and shook me, some sort of gun would fall out. Some guys were gun-oriented; most weren't then and now.

LEOSA doesn't do me much good as my old outfit didn't support it and the local agencies don't either.. I don't much care as we are no-permit "constitutional" carry; and I shoot pretty regularly anyway. I do have a permit that is honored for other states I might travel to.

In any case, better to have it...

I saw this on Facebook and couldn't help but grab a copy of it to share...

Attached Images

57213699_2308124175898051_8595707938578890752_n.jpg (106.8 KB, 82 views)

The answer is "no"....but it also "depends".

I would say in most departments when you are OD you are OD...that said depending on the department there may be a mandate to act if you are in your jurisdiction when something happens.

Just depends of the department...

Bob

At the risk of encouraging thread thrift, the Supreme Court has ruled that police officers have no legal obligation to prevent crimes against persons even while on duty . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

SCOTUS decisions essentially state there is no mandate to protect a specific individual. That actually makes sense as it would require every person have an assigned LEO.

Be safe.

Yeah, I kind of paraphrased, but since the Castle Rock v. Gonzales case was about not enforcing a restraining order, I went with "preventing crimes against persons . . . " which enforcing a restraining is essentially at attempt at . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I'v never been in LE.

My brother and two close friends carry 100% of the time after retiring.

In Utah its illegal to consume alcohol while in the possession of a firearm.
The people in the above post should have all gone to jail.

Thankfully, the state of Missouri disagrees, deeming lawful to defend yourself after having imbibed . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Drunks and guns - what a great combination.

Most people would like to be able to defend themselves in their home after having a couple beers. In Missouri, you can . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

It depends. We had a lively discussion about this a number of years ago. It seems that most southern and western LEOs answered "Yes" while most northern & midwestern LEOs answered "No". A lot of smaller southern departments tend to expect any off duty officers to jump in if they are present when excrement strikes the air circulation device!

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Speaking of LEOSA- Though I carry daily and shoot at least monthly I recently stopped doing my yearly LEOSA qual. Just too expensive. Here in AZ it cost $20/year DPS fee plus $20/year to the instructor. I could travel back to NM and do it all for free but they do it just once a year and not always when convenient and travel costs much more than $40 a year.
SO-- I got an AZ Concealed Carry License. $60 for 5 years and no yearly qualification.

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Support your Police, & NRA

Let me expand here a bit...

I got put out to pasture because of my I.O.D....I thought I could at least be put inside and still do something..However the city dis-agreed...A LEO had to be 100% fit....Well I was no longer 100% fit.

Their reasoning was/is a LEO is a LEO 24/7...IF a LEO is off duty hours...OFF DUTY...A car accident happens, a large person is trapped in the car, the car is on fire...I was there and saw it...Many other bystanders saw it too..Many of the bystanders know that I am a LEO...They expect me to do something...I go to the car and try to lift the person out of the burning car, but because of my physical limitations now, I cannot lift...So as I pull the person out, I drop him on his head....

The city becomes liable for my actions...The city doesn't want me on their payroll any more because of the potential liability.

To Jim's question, at least were I came from, yes a LEO was on duty 24/7, had the powers of arrest 24/7. Should a arrest be made, the off duty officer, would still call in on duty LEOs...to take the bad person to jail and the culprit would be booked to me.


WuzzFuzz

I might add..as a working LEO, sure I saw stuff when I was so called off duty...Would I get involved in every little thing I saw...NOT ME, nor would most any of the other LEOs.

BUT, THERE SURE WAS TIMES I WISHED MY PERSONAL CAR HAD RED LIGHTS AND A SIREN...

These are the people I was referring to. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

You were clear enough. In the first incident cited, the law worked correctly, and would have in Missouri. In the second incident, there is no mention of charges, so the intoxicated officers appear to have been within their right to defend themselves, and would have been so in Missouri. Under your scenario, not being able to possess a firearm while drinking, in the latter incident, the officers would have been reduced to duck and cover, and may now be dead . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Both departments I worked for, considered us to Always be on duty, but not always on shift. So, I carried any time I left the house.

Now retired the only times I carry 100% of the time, are nights, weekend trips to the ATM, road trips, or when I must be in or go to certain urban areas.

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Always Stay Strong!

I guess I was. I just don't see guns and alcohol being a good combination.

What you are most likely to lose if drinking and using a firearm is any deference the courts may have given to your judgement. In NM, immediate possession of a fiream while impaired (alcohol or drugs) is a misdemeanor. If you kill someone while committing that misdemeanor, no matter how otherwise justifiable the killing might otherwise have been, you could be convicted still of involuntary manslaughter, then independently lose your home and portions of your earnings forever in a civil suit for 'wrongful death.'

I’m gonna explain how Missouri law in this regard significantly differs from New Mexico law, and most likely several other states. I’ll provide a link to RSMO 571.030, which governs Unlawful Use of a Weapon, so one may read it in its entirety, but for the Cliff Notes folks among us, I’ll quote the pertinent parts.

First, the Missouri statute:

Missouri Revisor of Statutes - Revised Statutes of Missouri, RSMo Section 571.030 Unlawful use of weapons — exceptions — penalties.

Here’s 571.030, Section 1, subsection (5), which makes unlawful use (emphasis added) of a weapon while intoxicated a crime:

Although Section 1, subsection (5) quoted above specifically exempts acts of self defense with a firearm while intoxicated, the statute goes on to further clarify the issue in Section 5:

It’s very clear. There have been several instances of lawful self defense while intoxicated since this law was enacted, and several instances that were found to be unlawful and subsequently prosecuted. It’s a good law, in my opinion . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I think you'll get a skewed perception of retired officers who carry on this or any other gun forum. Most will carry...most of the time.

Muss:

I wasn't disputing...the biggest problem for nationwide carry are the 52 different court systems with differing rules and 51 sets of criminal statutes that vary even more. You could doing 'right' by your home state's laws and courts and be utterly wrong because you crossed an imaginary line dividing two states. It's potentially a life-changing problem.

What is the standard for ‘impaired?’

Specifically is there a prima facie standard?

I do understand ‘Consumption of alcohol (is) prohibited’ whilst carrying.

Be safe.

I made the answers in bold, but had to add one on your department question

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Jorge

Working LEO
I carry off-duty every day, everywhere, even places where it's restricted unless it's a secure facility with metal detectors. On-duty I carry the issued Glock 21 and a backup Glock 43 concealed.


As for my department: rural agency with 12 sworn full-time. Except myself, maybe one of them carry a majority of the time. Another carries sometimes. Some keep guns in their cars, which does NOT count as carrying. My dad and uncle are near-retirement LEO's, neither carry off-duty, except occasionally in their cars, which again, does not count.


Retired officers I know: I personally know none that do, but I know they exist.

Bottom line, with LEOSA being as expansive and legally supreme as it is, there is no excuse to not carry off-duty or retired.

Thanks again for all the comments...

Talked with a friend yesterday who is a SO in the county where the lieutenant described above is from...he says about 2/5s of the deputies on the SO carry all the time...it is encouraged by the Sheriff... Most of the rest of the of locals...less than 10%.

Talked to another LEO from Idaho today...he says less than 10% in his area...and about the same for retirees... He says the guys who are 9 to 5ers are the ones least likely to carry...to them it is just a job...

As I read the updates to this thread, I sit in the auditorium of my kids school. I’m off duty, but legally allowed to carry In The school. I’m waiting to board the bus for a field trip. I will probably be the only one armed as the whole 7th grade goes on a hike along the river today. I’m sure there’s more of a statistical chance of a rabid raccoon while on the hike, but you never know. I’m always surprised more LEO’s don’t volunteer for field trips

Fascinating thread, with input from former LE officers throughout the nation, with a variety of experience. Those of us who dealt with evil folks during the course of our careers appear to be more apt to carry in retirement. Those who had limited contact with evil folks, and had the opportunity to work in communities with limited criminal violence may not see the need to carry.

I carry for several reasons. As senior citizens, traveling in the northeast, my wife and I are now in the “prey” category. My career exposed me to truly evil people that most folks never meet. But they are out there, even though you may have been fortunate enough to avoid them thus far. After my LE retirement, and serving as a consultant for a DOJ agency, I became aware of ongoing training in terrorist nations that target us, US citizens. The training includes mass murder in schools, and other public facilities throughout our country. The terrorists are interested in body count only and are prepared to die for their cause. I neither want my wife or me to be helpless victims in the remote possibility I happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. (I, and I suspect most of you, would prefer to go down fighting than slaughtered like sheep).Lastly, if I happen to see a law enforcement officer being attacked, as a former firearms’s officer, I believe he would appreciate my assistance, even if I was returning home after dinner and 2 glasses of wine.

Lastly, peace of mind. Several years ago, at about 2:00am,
I had a blowout on Rt. 84 in Connecticut. As many of you know, Connecticut has a number of violent street gangs. (I know because I’m a former member of the Connecticut Gang Investigator’s Association.) Traffic was light and I thought to myself that a grey haired guy in a broken down BMW was prime prey if a carload of gang members drove by. I was comforted with the fact that I had my Model 60 in my pocket. Fortunately a young State Trooper stopped by and insisted on changing my tire. I sent a letter to the commander of his troop, telling him my LE background, how appreciative i was, and how fortunate he was to have this trooper on his team.