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  #101  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:09 PM
Buford57 Buford57 is offline
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I should mind my own business, but...

I carried a HS .22 mag as my "Onion Field" gun for years. In uniform that meant it was my 3rd. In plainclothes it was 2nd or 3rd depending on assignment and once or twice when I knew for a fact going in that I'd be patted down for a wire it was my primary. Others used .25 autos, but I wasn't convinced they provided any advantage. Today I also own a Remington RM380 that isn't much bigger and the derringer gathers dust in the safe.

If the fact that I relied on such a pathetic weapon makes me a moron in the eyes of all the expert arm chair commandos out there, excuse me while I drool on myself. I did my job and went home alive when it was over.
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  #102  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:18 PM
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No derringer as a carry option in our extended family .
  #103  
Old 04-18-2019, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Stuff like that goes on all the time in the Academy. The general public way underestimates what goes into the making of a law enforcement officer . . .
Yes, and some might be surprised to know how many recruits underestimate the process and resign. My wife works for the State Police at the academy, she often comes home saying they lost another one. It's intentionally grueling to see who can and cannot make it. I can respect the ones that come to the conclusion on their own that its not for them and resign...that's a job that definitely isn't for everyone. Few here don't make the FTO phase though, some get extended and sent back to the academy for remedial training, but if they get through the academy most finish the field training and succeed.
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  #104  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:08 PM
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I carry a 7 round mouse gun that is no more cumbersome than my cased smartphone. I see no need to downsize further.
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  #105  
Old 04-18-2019, 06:15 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
And no, "gun > no gun" does not justify such a choice.
We will have to agree to disagree. Having a gun, any gun, is always better than not having a gun . . .
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  #106  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
We will have to agree to disagree. Having a gun, any gun, is always better than not having a gun . . .
"At least I have a gun" doesn't mean it's okay to have a useless piece of trash. Better than nothing, but you're still bad.

But hey, I guess having standards is harder than empty mottos.

Last edited by Wise_A; 04-18-2019 at 08:58 PM.
  #107  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:27 PM
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Back in the 1980s I was a dealer for American Derringer. Sold a lot of them to LEOs as a backup gun to their primary mainly because they could be had in the same caliber the officer was carrying...

Right off, I can't think of a harder to shoot "small" gun. There are so many better choices for it's size, weight and cost not sure why anyone would buy one other than some Yancy Derringer nostalgia fixation....

I also carried a High Standard .22 Magnum Derringer, but only as a backup gun in uniform and would gladly do so again. It is small, slim, light and DA fast....

Bob

Last edited by SuperMan; 04-18-2019 at 09:31 PM.
  #108  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
We will have to agree to disagree. Having a gun, any gun, is always better than not having a gun . . .
I said it in the other thread but better than nothing does not equal optimal.

The problem that I have with that statement is that so many people use it as an excuse to carry a gun that's really not adequate for self-defense and then claim that "Any gun is better than no gun."

Last edited by Smoke; 04-18-2019 at 11:33 PM.
  #109  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:47 PM
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Default I’m intrigued; please tell me...

...what kind of gear I should have been wearing whilst wearing shorts and a polo shirt in NYC? How about whilst wearing a suit in Boston? While we’re at it, how about in San Francisco? Seattle? Honolulu? Anchorage? Detroit? Beverly Hills?

Specifically interested in YOUR ‘knowledge’ re: what type carry...IWB or OWB? How/where should I have carried handcuffs? Credentials?

Though now retired, wondering how I should have done things.

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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
?...
No I am not telling anyone how they should respond to a potential threat. I can only offer how I would. Same for gear. If someone asks for my informed opinion on gear, I am pretty sure my knowledge of what works & what does not is a lot higher than most LEO or someone who survived an altercation with a drunk. ...
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  #110  
Old 04-18-2019, 10:01 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Having something that will go bang is better than an empty motto. By the way, what's your motto?

Edit: Define "Useless Piece of Trash"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
"At least I have a gun" doesn't mean it's okay to have a useless piece of trash. Better than nothing, but you're still bad.

But hey, I guess having standards is harder than empty mottos.
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Last edited by Muss Muggins; 04-18-2019 at 10:04 PM. Reason: added a thought
  #111  
Old 04-18-2019, 10:03 PM
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
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Any gun on the scene is adequate for self defense if deployed properly . . .

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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
I said it in the other thread but better than nothing does not equal optimal.

The problem that I have with that statement isn't so many people use it as an excuse to carry a gun that's really not adequate for self-defense and then claim that "Any gun is better no gun."
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  #112  
Old 04-18-2019, 10:19 PM
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When I was younger, I use to drop a .22 Derringer into my pants pocket when I went somewhere that required me to wear a shirt tucked in. This was before the days of lightweight polymer semi-autos. Today I could do the same thing with my LCP.

There was a time not too long ago that a Derringer was a viable option. Now small lightweight higher capacity multi-shot guns are everywhere, making the Derringer almost obsolete. But any gun still beats no gun.

I probably won't carry a Derringer today except as a back-up. Although I do see a place for a .410 Derringer in certain scenarios, but still not as a primary.

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  #113  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:09 PM
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For those that do carry a .410 derringer, what loads are you using?
  #114  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Any gun on the scene is adequate for self defense if deployed properly . . .
Personally, I'm not comfortable with less than 10 rounds of 9mm.

The smallest gun I would carry is a Glock 43 and only then if I absolutely couldn't conceal my 26.

YMM (and probably does) V
  #115  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
Any gun on the scene is adequate for self defense if deployed properly . . .
I don't think a two-shot derringer is adequate for dealing with three attackers

(and no, I don't think two cartridges is reasonably sufficient for even a single Angry Dude, I just went with the funny one)
  #116  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:51 AM
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Returning home from his first outing with his “license” and the
HS 2shot..... what if there are three attacking? ..... asked my son.
Use your Aikido/Judo training and get two of them in a line.... was not a response he liked.
So he put on the old M59 and returned requesting JHP reliability.

The newer HS 38 Spl 2shot made into a 357 size smoothbore snakeshot gun would be nice.

Tough to beat a Sig 238HD for accuracy and carry in South Florida.... or the S&Walther PPKs.

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  #117  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:05 AM
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I disagree. A Philidelphia derringer has prooven it to be deadly. Just ask
Abe.
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  #118  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
For those that do carry a .410 derringer, what loads are you using?
I would carry one of the two loads in my pic above (shown under the Derringer) based on what my application is.

That bird shot spreads out pretty well and would work great for snakes (or someones face to hopefully stop an attack without killing them).

The 4 pellets of 000 buck should also be fairly effective at close range.

But manufactures are offering a ton of options in .410 SD loads these days. I haven't heard of any first hand reports of effectiveness though.

Drop that derringer in your pocket as back-up option two or three. You basically have a SBS (short barreled shotgun) in your pocket.
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  #119  
Old 04-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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( I'm going to have to look up the SA Revolver thread , I have interesting thoughts on those .)

It's a Semi- Free country , and this is within your prerogative to choose as you see fit .

But speaking as a former Derringer owner , this is reaching to point to seriously question the truism that * Any Gun is better than No Gun * . Given their slowness to get into action , and very marginal capabilities to actually hit anything , at even the farther portion of literal bad breath distances , I could more effectively defend myself with an ASP ( expandable baton ) than a Derringer in my hand . Heck I'd have to think hard about Derringer vs Blackjack .

And as noted , Derringers in ( seemingly ) serious cal are heavier , and at least similar in size to either Airweight .38spl , or polymer Subcompact 9mm .

I've regalated my .25acp to collectable plinker quite a while back , but not too long back , I cleaned and tested one for a friend ( 1948 Astra Hammerless ) . It went bang everytime, shot pretty close to the sights , and I could plink 12oz cans @ 10yds at a decent pace . I'd carry that one in preference to any Derringer in any cal .

Added - Yes , the ability to be discrete is important . But unless I were to wear Speedo, it's no problem to be unseen with a .38 snub , or subcompact full caliber semi .

And yes, I have had workmen that turned out to be felounously inclined , so it's not far fetched concept .

Last edited by Biggfoot44; 04-19-2019 at 12:07 PM.
  #120  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
I disagree. A Philidelphia derringer has prooven it to be deadly. Just ask
Abe.
If I ever need to shoot a guy in the back of the head while he's watching a play, I'll remember that.
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  #121  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
"At least I have a gun" doesn't mean it's okay to have a useless piece of trash. Better than nothing, but you're still bad.

But hey, I guess having standards is harder than empty mottos.
It could be far worse than nothing if you can not get to it or deploy it effective. This leads to a false sense of ability & may actually get you deeper in the poop IMO. I can just see fighting an attacker for his gun while you try to get your pocket rocket out with one hand & use it, much less two attackers with just old hands & feet.
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  #122  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:37 PM
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I disagree. A Philidelphia derringer has prooven it to be deadly. Just ask
Abe.
I love ridiculous statements like the above. Yes, anything would have killed ole Abe at contact distance including a pointy stick or decent size rock. It doesn't make either of those things adequate self protection against armed attackers????
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  #123  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:41 PM
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...what kind of gear I should have been wearing whilst wearing shorts and a polo shirt in NYC? How about whilst wearing a suit in Boston? While we’re at it, how about in San Francisco? Seattle? Honolulu? Anchorage? Detroit? Beverly Hills?

Specifically interested in YOUR ‘knowledge’ re: what type carry...IWB or OWB? How/where should I have carried handcuffs? Credentials?

Though now retired, wondering how I should have done things.
Oh I get it, badge & gun, you got this. Yes I am returning your snarky BS.
FWIW, I keep things really simple, same IWB rig for all occasions. If I cant have a gun, which is often, then I don't carry one, but I always have other options for SD.
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  #124  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
I don't think a two-shot derringer is adequate for dealing with three attackers

(and no, I don't think two cartridges is reasonably sufficient for even a single Angry Dude, I just went with the funny one)
Actually, it would probably work just fine about 90% of the time.

When I was busy flunking out of Air Force navigator school at Mather AFB my new bride and I lived in an off-base apartment in run-down Rancho Cordova. No carry permits in CA in those days, at least for semi-transient military types, but when I would go for my evening jog I would put my trusty Beretta 950 .25 in my sweat pants pocket.

One evening as I plodded along three yutes on the other side of the street stopped and course corrected to intercept my path. There was no one else around. Maybe they were coming from a dress reheasal for Gangbangers On Ice, or wanted to thank me for my service, or meant to rescue a kitty from a tree behind me. No way to tell.

I said Hi Fellas and held up my little Beretta like I was showing them a pocket watch. Didn’t point it at anyone, just making the I Have A Gun point.

They stopped, conferred, and the lead guy grinned and gave me a little wave. We all went on our ways.

Before all the MMQBs pile on with the accumulated wisdom of their CCW Instructors, I’m not recommending this approach to anyone. I know there are lots of people who don’t consider their gun a threat management device short of gunfire. Good for them.

In this case nobody got shot. I didn’t get robbed or stabbed. For some reason these young folks didn’t report a felonious brandishing by a slow moving jogger. I went on to absolutely bust night celestial navigation at which point the USAF made good on their promise to make me a cop and send me to Minot by doing exactly that. I had a ball as an AF cop and then an FBI agent.

My little Beretta wasn’t a derringer, but a derringer would have had the same effect.

I don’t think a derringer is an optimal tool, even though I know a UC agent who killed a guy stone dead with a High Standard .22 Mag. But ANY gun is better than no gun, because any gun fulfills the I HAVE A GUN role which has defused countless altercations.
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  #125  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:20 PM
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Actually, it would probably work just fine about 90% of the time.
I'm being facetious to make a point. Hence the deliberate selection of three attackers for a two-shot gun, the eyerolling emoji, etc.

I posted elsewhere about how having a gun is all you need in the vast majority of DGUs, and how a working firearm is all that's needed in the vast majority of the remaining few.

And here's one where I--again, facetiously--posted on the relative usefulness of communication vs the usefulness of a firearm.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/140410626-post62.html

That said, while a derringer, or a Hi-Point, or some other firearm requiring a minimum of either effort or expense would statistically be just fine, great defensive handguns are so small and typically available so cheaply that there's no point to either the derringer or the dumpster fire.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:22 PM
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Nice! After 127 posts we all agree!

Insert appropriate emoji here.
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  #127  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:49 PM
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Default I see...

..your self professed expertise does not account for variables.

To the point, why carry IWB ‘for all occasions?’

Re: YOUR ‘badge & gun’ comment, I have carried in EVERY state of the union...46 of ‘em on the job...all 50 of them off duty. And now at least 24 states whilst as an armed citizen. Nary an issue...but always looking to improve.

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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Oh I get it, badge & gun, you got this. Yes I am returning your snarky BS.
FWIW, I keep things really simple, same IWB rig for all occasions. If I cant have a gun, which is often, then I don't carry one, but I always have other options for SD.
  #128  
Old 04-19-2019, 08:11 PM
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As a former owner, and I stress former the Bond Arms was extremely well made, durable and as simple as you can get. It was the worst shooting experience ever holding on to that small grip with my large hands! If you have very little training it has its place for self defense. That said, I am really pleased with my 640 pro series for deep conceal. Money wise you aren't that far off and the steel 640 is a real pleasure to shoot.
  #129  
Old 04-19-2019, 08:18 PM
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I love ridiculous statements like the above. Yes, anything would have killed ole Abe at contact distance including a pointy stick or decent size rock. It doesn't make either of those things adequate self protection against armed attackers????
This wasn't suppose to be taken as serious. Even though my wife has drug me to watch plays that I would have rather be shot in the head. If I was worried enough to carry it wouldn't be a derringer or a SA.
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  #130  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:08 AM
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My last experience getting shot at involved 155mm HE-SQ rounds a long time ago that resulted in no casualties and me spending a good part of the next day helping my crew replace fenders and sponson boxes on my tank.

My last self-defense situations both occurred while delivering pizzas after retiring from the Army. The first involved a drunk musing out loud about kicking my @$$ and taking the pizza. Luckily he wasn't drunk enough to miss the sound of a .25 ACP Beretta 950BS cocking under the pizza box. I got a $10 tip when he shakily handed me a twenty to cover the pizza and said keep it. The second involved some young gentlemen coming out of the bushes beside the house where I was making a delivery. I put my hand in my black Army raincoat pocket and wrapped my hand around the grip of a 9mm CZ-75. I didn't pull it, but I assume they realized that their plan had gone sideways since they disappeared. I delivered the pizzas to the house and got a small tip which was nice.

Derringers? Nope. I carry a S&W Model 469 or a Model 65-1 with a Model 12-2 or Model 640 if I'm carrying a backup.

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  #131  
Old 04-21-2019, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
..your self professed expertise does not account for variables.

To the point, why carry IWB ‘for all occasions?’

Re: YOUR ‘badge & gun’ comment, I have carried in EVERY state of the union...46 of ‘em on the job...all 50 of them off duty. And now at least 24 states whilst as an armed citizen. Nary an issue...but always looking to improve.
Because iwb is easier to conceal than owb & faster than pocket, also can be done I. Any attire but swim trunks & I dont ccw in swim trunks. How you carry is how you carry.
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  #132  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I love ridiculous statements like the above. Yes, anything would have killed ole Abe at contact distance including a pointy stick or decent size rock. It doesn't make either of those things adequate self protection against armed attackers????
Lighten up will ya
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  #133  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
If I ever need to shoot a guy in the back of the head while he's watching a play, I'll remember that.
you can also lighten up
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  #134  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:49 AM
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good lord people so of ya sound like your best coon hound has been kick for no good reason
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  #135  
Old 04-21-2019, 11:37 AM
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Time to hug it out... These types of arguments often end up like this.

The definition of masochist? A guy who shoots IPSC with a Derringer!
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  #136  
Old 10-14-2020, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Interesting subject, as the prevailing wisdom these days seems to gravitate to 18+1 bottom feeders with two or three spare mags and a BUG. The same crowd raise both eyebrows when someone says their EDC is a five or six shot revolver, ("Do you have a death wish?"). Seriously, with as much info as is on line regarding the ineffectiveness of pistol rounds, especially out of a short barrel, two shots and a cumbersome reload tend to raise my eyebrows too.
I dont see many advocating full size service pistol & 2 spare mags for ccw, but there is a huge diff between 2 shot derringer & even a 5 shot j frame, much less a 8-9 shot subcompact 9mm. A derringer is a nostalgia weapon. It wasnt effective in its hey day & certainly not now imo. Like advocating a Lever gun as a battle rifle. It was fine in its day but not on the 21 century. Will they kill, sure, so will pointy sticks bit no one really advocates such weapons for daily SD.
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  #137  
Old 10-14-2020, 07:44 AM
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eh... I guess...
Not for me though - Id opt for a Seecamp 6+1 w/ 3 caliber options

I always viewed the Derringer as a novelty
However - I also viewed the Shockwave as a novelty , that is until i Bought one.
Now its one of my go-to boom sticks
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  #138  
Old 10-14-2020, 08:06 AM
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Now an 18 month old thread, discussed thoroughly, and the OP along with one of the other main "contributors" are no longer members...thread closed.
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