Guys, without getting too much into the argument against various pistols for the purposes of home defense, I present to you the question that regardless of the gun they’re fired from, and assuming total reliability for both guns, which would you rather have as a nightstand gun? A 9mm Parabellum pistol with an 18 round magazine +1 in the chamber, or a .45 ACP pistol with 8 round magazine +1 in the chamber?

Pros/cons and (civil) arguments are welcome. Thanks!

-Jay

9mm

Pros:

More ammo means you stay in the fight
Less recoil = more accurate follow up shots.
Cheaper practice ammo

Cons:

None

45 ACP

Pros: None

Cons: More recoil, more $$, less ammo.


You'd be amazed at how quickly you could get to slide lock having only 9 available, when the gang of four comes marching in.

Ammo = life.

Either one. There’s always a reload close by.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

They're both rather anemic. House gun is a .357mag.

But if I had to choose, I'd pick 9mm. With +p's they're decent and you do get 18+1.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I would prefer .45 ACP.

Folks can go right on ahead parroting the assertion that 9mm Luger somehow defies the laws of physics, thus making it equal in power yet superior in every other way to .40 S&W/.45 ACP, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't true.
If you want to say that the 9mm Luger is a superior self-defense cartridge to the .45 ACP, then go right ahead, but at least cite its factual advantages, don't just go parroting an excuse that the FBI used to justify adopting 9mm Luger to the masses based on the results of nondisclossd testing which in reality was most likely performed with 147gr +P+ 9mm loads, not your average standard pressure 115gr loads like most folks seem to believe.

That being said, this is kind of an unfair poll which artificially gimps the .45 option by limiting it to 9 rounds vs 19, meanwhile in real life most high capacity pistols chambered in 9mm have 15-17 round magazines and those chambered in .45 ACP hold between 10-12 rounds, but I suppose that would make the competition too close.

EDIT: I would also like to add that I strongly disagree with the argument that having more ammo is always better due to the fact that you can do more damage over time by getting more shots off because it is an argument which presumes that having said extra shots will always be necessary to stop the threat, that the shooter will have sufficient time to use all of said ammo, (or at least more of it than they would with a lower capacity firearm) and last but not least, that the shooter can honestly fire the gun significantly faster than the other.

Frankly, if I were most concerned with the idea of launching as many projectiles as possible at a Home Invader as quickly as possible in order to score as many decisive hits as possible within the least amount of time, then I would opt for a 12 Gauge Shotgun, not a 9mm Pistol. And you can move the goal line as much as you want by conjuring up scenarios in which the 9mm is the best opinion currently available, but that still doesn't make it objectively more viable than a larger caliber firearm with lower capacity.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I own a 45 with 9 on board. I don't own a 9mm with 19. Only one choice for me.

FN FNX 45.. 16 on board..or maybe I could choose my 10mm Witness with 15..

I'm in the "either-or" camp.

I did vote 9mm, though, since that's what I have. My carry gun is a Beretta PX4 Compact, 15+1. It also serves as my home defense gun, alongside my Beretta 92FS, 18+1 (MecGar mags). Of course, my little 642 is always there.

I will add that a home defense situation seems more likely to require a "stand-and-fight" approach than a "street" encounter, so a higher capacity gun may be the more prudent choice. However, I don't know if that's reflected in the reality of such events (anyone can find outliers).

But if the 9-shot .45 is what you're most competent with, I can't say it's a bad choice.

Just my opinion.

I have 14 + 45 acp in my nightstand, in this totally reliable SAR K2. She's a bit heavy for carry on a daily basis, although I've done it a time or two.

It's the closest thing to being a "fair" comparison, and it's my choice.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

30 rounds 5.56mm

Otherwise, lightest-recoiling, highest-capacity, cheapest-to-train-with caliber that meets IWBA/FBI standards (i.e. 9mm.)

In Massachusetts you have to decide between 10 rds 9mm or 10 rds 45. 45 for the win.

This is like that old argument. Which is better, Chinese throwing stars or nunchaku? I usually just defer to depends on the circumstances, training, and accuracy of the Ninja.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

As much as I love the 1911 loaded 7+1 of 45s, I look at this a little differently. If I am rudely awakened from a good sleep, I would rather reach for a revolver loaded with 6 than a semi-auto. In my opinion, a person that has been rudely awakened is in a greater likelihood of having an AD than someone toting a wheelgun.

My first choice would be any revolver from 38 on up loaded with 6 SWCs or a 1911 loaded with 7+1 target SWCs than any 9mm, especially since too many states are trying to limit magazine capacity.

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Judge control not gun control!

If i felt I had to have a 45 as a house gun, go glock, xd or m&p, fn, lots of choices for 12-13rds of 45? I have confidence in any of the service auto rounds with proper jhp. A semiauto will give you a bit of an edge in capacity & being able to mount a weapon light.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Actually never really understood this line of thought. But for the stock 1911, most stock semi run 5-6#, not exactly hair triggers.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

45 x 8 is what ive always had closest to me for the last 30 years

Hard to imagine that anyone who has ever been in any kind of gun fight
made the decision afterwards to switch to a different gun with less than
half of the ammo capacity of the gun used before.

....... It's FIREPOWER.



Something you may need in today's world. Look, I train as well as a resource-free individual can. I've never been involved in a shootout. In a typical situation there may be none, one or two shots fired and that's it. BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT 'THE SITUATION' IS UNTIL IT'S OVER. AND I'D LIKE TO HAVE PLENTY OF ROUNDS AVAILABLE.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I've got a Beretta PX4 in .45 next to the bed. 11 rounds +1 and a reload.

I carry either a CS9 or PX4 compact in 9mm depending on weather, clothes, etc. (Once in a while it's a 4513.)

And here's my story: One night, very late, sitting at my desk working on an article I hear strange noises outside.
Into my desk drawer where there is a choice between a PPQ in 9mm with a bunch of bullets, a .38sp 642, and a 4513 with 7 or so .45acps.
Without a thought I grabbed the 4513...no thinking, just grabbed the one I'd knew would stop for sure anything out there.
It was essentially a false alarm (a critter of some sort) but right then and there I went into the bedroom and took the M&P 2.0 9mm out and replaced it with a PPQ in .45 which I later sold and now have the 45 PX4 (trying to keep the carry gun and bedside gun alike).

In general, handguns are piss poor man stoppers and there's no real statistical evidence that either of the two options given have a clear performance advantage over the other one anyway.

So since I'm cheap and I like Glocks my choice would be whichever 9 mm Glock I happen to have been carrying that day.

More often than not it would be a Glock 26 with a12-round magazine loaded with 124 grain plus P gold dots. If it wasn't that it would be a Glock 19 with 15-round magazine of the same ammunition.

Or on a night like this where I had two egg salad sandwiches for lunch I probably wouldn't bother with a gun I'd just let you take your chances.

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Retired Career Security Guard

With some reluctance I chose the 9mm option over the .45 despite the fact that I don't buy into the current "it's just as good" I read about.

The reality is that my bedside gun has 15 rounds of .40 S&W in a 5" M&P. My concern is that I may not have time to grab a spare magazine when the house alarm goes off.

One of the reasons I like a DA gun, revolver or semi-auto, as my nightstand gun. Also why I keep my nightstand PX4 Compact in a Remora holster, so I don't inadvertently stick my finger in the trigger guard if I have to grab it in the middle of the night.

If you wake up in the middle of the night and grab your gun, you may not be fully awake, which means you may not be as fully aware of what's going on at that moment. If you grab your gun in such a state, you may put your finger on the trigger even when you don't intend to. This has happened with trained people who are fully awake and under stress, so it's plain to see it could happen if one is not fully awake.

And It's less about the weight of the pull and more about the length of the pull. When I had a Glock 23 as a nightstand gun it had a NY1/"-" connector combo, which kept the factory pull weight but provided resistance over the full length of the trigger travel, so basically like a 6# DA pull. As I mentioned above, my current nightstand gun has a DA trigger.

This is also a good reason to take a layered approach to one's home security. You want some kind of early warning so that you have a few seconds to "wake up" and be prepared with your gun of choice, whether it's an 18-shot 9mm or a 9-shot .45. Or a 30-shot 5.56.

Another installment in the never-ending caliber/capacity debate. The "What if" brigade's in full effect. I'll enjoy my popcorn.

I have to take a 45. Its simple really. I have a whole bunch of 45s and absolutely no 9mms.

I have both. Each with back up mags.

I chose a 40S&W with 12+1 paired with a light/laser combo.

It's less about the caliber and more about the gun/caliber combination and how effectively you can use it.

In one hand, I'm glad someone brought up physics. In the other, It's strange to see someone lead with a statement about physics and then offer no actual physics.

So physics gives us (mass • acceleration = force).

A 115 grain 9mm bullet can reach speeds of 1400fps creating about 500 foot pounds of energy. While a 185 grain .45 bullet can reach speeds of 1150fps creating 543 foot pounds of energy.

12 (amount of ammo) • 543 (energy from .45acp)= 6,516 foot pounds of energy/ magazine.

17 (amount of ammo) • 500 (energy from 9mm)= 8,500 foot pounds of energy/ magazine.

One definitely has the edge in a duty gun, and it definitely is not .45 acp.

*all of my ballistic figures are cited from buffalo bore's website, and I used the hottest offering for both 9mm and .45 acp.*

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Ban this man,
'89

Don't over think this. ether one will work just fine. I prefer my S&W 1911 with two 8 round Wilson Combat mags one is in gun locked and loaded and the other is in night stand just incase. 17 total 230 grain JHP rounds. I feel very safe. My 1911 has Crimson Trace laser grips that are dead on.

Since few of us skeep in tactical pants, where would one put a spare mag anyway?

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

They are both handgun rounds....handguns are convenient to carry ... both will work with the proper shot placement. Neither work if you miss..............................

Stopping power ...... get a rifle

Knock down power ..... get something in .50BMG

Your math is sound but the premise is moot. Total energy on hand means little. At the end of the day we are punching holes. Bigger deeper holes are better than smaller less deep holes. We want more ammo on hand so we dont need to reload during the fight. Why I moved of a revo for sd, just not enough ammo on hand & slow reload. I also like a weapon light on a house gun, easily done with most semi today.
Btw, a good 9mm is a 45 after the bullet contacts the target. Choose your ammo carefully with a 9mm & you are not underarmed by any stretch. 124gr +p & 230gr std have pretty much the same energy & can have the same penetration & crush the same volume of tissue.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Something about the pulse from shooting 45's feels unpleasant to me, so I never bought one. That aside, my 9mm CZ PCR does double duty as EDC and nightstand choice. But as with any nightstand choice, it is only for the few seconds until I get to a long gun.

As the question is set, 9mm wins hands down because of ammo capacity. Ammo for shooters is like speed, height and fuel for fighter pilots. There's no such thing as too much.

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Release the Kraken

As another mentioned...my handgun in the nightstand is a backup at best. I have a firearm in 5.56mm that would be my first choice and a 12GA that would make my 2nd.

At any rate, as far as handguns go the caliber is the least of it but people sure like to make a thing of it.

50 BMG with most ammunition being a jacketed mild steel core tends to make unremarkable holes in things. Hitting objects that splatter or shatter is a little more exciting...but any energy that passes through a target is largely wasted.

I don't think the question here is about energy! I know we all will choose what we want and that's OK. But I say this, it doesn't matter about energy if there is enough energy in both rounds to do the job well. What matters most in this situation is the end result. If that is accomplished (and it will be accomplished with either round IF those rounds are delivered to the right place!), then more energy doesn't really matter.

What can I shoot the best? What can I handle as far as recovery time between shots the best? And beyond that, is the gun I'm shooting the best one for me, does it fit my hands the best, am I totally familiar and confident with it? When the flag flies in the middle of the night, I'd better not be fumbling with my home protection gun or trying to remember how to make it go bang! I've got no problem with either caliber mentioned here. They will both do the job IF I do my job! Dead or incapacitated is dead or incapacitated. More than enough energy and penetration is just that ... more than enough. Since I consider both calibers to provide more than enough, then it does not matter to me which caliber has more of more than enough. It does matter to me which one I can do the very best work with under a full load of adrenalin!!!! There are other more important considerations for home defense for me than just energy if energy and penetration is sufficiently present in the caliber(s) and loadings under consideration for use.

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So long ... Ken

10 rounds of 9mm. Because it's probably in my holster and on my belt anyway. If I have ang issue I can't solve with that, then I very likely need to reconsider my life choices.

The correct answer is: Whichever one you shoot more often and are less likely to need to fetch when trouble abounds.

In order to make this comparison even matter there are a couple of other assumptions that need to be made in addition to 'reliability'. We must also assume that any home invaders would be determined thieves, because in the real world the overwhelming majority flee when a gun is presented in defense or shots are being fired in their direction, making the difference in the number of rounds between the two guns a moot point! Secondly, we must also assume that the homeowner is a good shot - able to put rounds ON TARGET, because against multiple attackers that are determined (and presumably armed since they are confronting an armed defender) to press the attack will overcome the homeowner that can't hit his target....even if he has a high-capacity gun.

Having said that I would choose a .45acp, because my hits will be at least as effective as those of a 9mm. and I will have a spare magazine (and my WIFES gun) available if needed.

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Stay protected my friends.

Be careful voting for option 1 if your one of the many that live where that option is illegal, big brother might be watching!

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You can vote for anything you want. Owning it is something else..I've got some tin foil for 'ya if you need some more..

Well, I think it's only fair to compare guns each having maximum capacity standard magazines.

As I look at my inventory, the 9mm pistol with the most rounds in its standard magazine is the H&K VP70Z. It has 18 rounds in the mag, so with one in the tube, it can carry 19 rounds.



As to .45s, I have both an H&K USP and a Mark 23 SOCOM, both having magazines with 12-round capacity, making it 13 rounds all up. Here's the USP.



So, the question in my mind is: Is 13 rounds of proven .45 ACP power sufficient for the job, or would I require 19 rounds of lesser 9mm to get things done?

I do not anticipate a horde invading my home, so I think 13 rounds of .45 will do just fine, thank you. The impact of each .45 would be telling, with less penetration and danger to people who may be in adjacent rooms. Plus I have a reserve magazine with another 12 rounds. Issue resolved; case closed.

John

P.S. - Now that I think about it, my Glock 21 will handle 14 rounds of .45 ACP full up, but since we're talking .45 here, that extra round probably won't be needed.

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

My house is wrapped in the stuff!

9mm all day long; greater round count, faster follow up shots
Take a Glock and use the 33 round G18 mag and you have 33+1.

As Dr Grabinsky says, it's fortunate most shootings are done with handguns as there isn't much for the ER to do when long guns are used.
12 or 20 gauge buckshot for me. Handgun? Full size 9.
To paraphrase a great posting by a LEO here. Don't want your home invaded? Don't get involved in the drug trade, and don't get involved in love triangles.

Always COMPLETELY happy with the .45. The End.

Why isn't 50 rounds of .45ACP an option? Seems like a pretty good home defense gun was around in 1921.

I debated for a while on whether to make this post or not. First off, everyone has their own opinion and there isn't much that's going to sway it. Second off, it's going to be a novel. But there isn't a good understanding of terminal ballistics by most people, so here we go anyway.

I've been a student of terminal ballistics for quite a few years now, starting many years ago when a former Chief at the PD I work for would only buy cheap hollow points for duty use. His reasoning was that they won't work anyway, so why buy good ones? In addition to reading all that I can get my hands on, I have been lucky enough to take some ballistics classes through the PD, given by representatives of ammo companies. There really wasn't as much brand loyalty and pushing of the instructor's particular product as you would expect, although there was some.

The first thing you need to understand is that human tissues are very elastic. When they are stretched, they typically just snap back into place with no, or very little, damage. It takes a lot of energy and velocity to get tissues past their elastic limit, to where they start ripping and tearing instead of just stretching and snapping back. In human tissues, that limit is roughly 2200 feet per second of velocity for bullets. Some tissues, like liver tissue, is less elastic and some, like skin, is more elastic.

Below 2200 FPS, which is where the vast majority of handgun rounds are, all you are doing is just punching a hole. That's it, just punching a hole. The tissues may stretch and flow out of the way of the bullet, but since you are below the elastic limit, the tissues will just snap back into place after the bullet passes. Above 2200 FPS, you are exceeding the elastic limits of the tissues and the tissues begin to rip and tear, which is why rifles tend to work better than pistols.

Also in play is whether the bullet is FMJ or capable of expanding. Even with rifles, if the bullet is pointed and doesn't expand, deform or tumble in some way, it doesn't really impart any of it's energy into human tissues and just punches a hole. You need some way for the bullet to impart energy into the tissues for it to have much effectiveness. This is why some FMJ bullets, like a lot of military FMJ, just punches a hole. US M193 spec 55gr 5.56 NATO ammo is designed to travel a short distance in tissue, then yaw or tumble This is why US 5.56 gained a reputation in Vietnam for horrific wounds. It doesn't always work the way it is supposed to, due to variations in bullet manufacture, but in general, it works OK. There are other military FMJ loads that are designed to yaw or tumble, like some bullets used in British .303 military ammo, but there are also some that won't typically yaw in the time it takes to pass through a body. This is also why rifle JHP or soft point bullets, tend to be devastating, because they are giving up all their energy in the target.

With pistol bullets, since they are almost all below 2200 FPS, they just punch a hole. Even JHP ammo punches a hole, although it can be somewhat larger than FMJ because the bullet expands. There is no ripping and tearing, just punching a hole. Even 1/10" doesn't make much difference, because the tissues tend to flow out of the way, then snap back into place after the bullet passes. Because of this, as long as you are using good JHP ammo, all the major calibers (9mm, .40, .45, .357 Sig, .38 or most others you can think of) tend to expand to roughly the same size and penetrate roughly the same depth.

Now, I'm not trying to say that everyone needs to dump .45 and go to 9mm. I have, but that is an individual decision. If you like .45 and shoot .45 well, have at it. I always advise anyone I instruct to pick a caliber that they can shoot well, pick a good JHP load (I typically recommend Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot), and practice, practice, practice. Fast, accurate shot placement and quick follow up shots are more important than caliber, as long as you are using an adequate caliber. However, understand that handgun rounds aren't like the Hammer of Thor. Stopping a threat will usually take several fast, accurate shots to the center of mass. As long as you are using an adequate caliber, good JHP ammo and can quickly and accurately place your shots, you are as well equipped as you can be.

I go back to my simplified Ninja story. Energy expelled by a flying bullet, depth of penetration, how it reacts with clothing, ballistic gel, or any other math is meaningless if the shooter doesn’t hit the target. Ask the cop in Illinois that hit the perp 17 times with .45acp before he dropped. I can shoot you 19 times in non-critical areas with any round on the planet. You will eventually lose your blood pressure and die sooner or later. So the real issue that is more important is being able to skillfully put shots on target under stress in areas that will stop the threat. Be able to do that. It’s not the size of the pen, it’s the penmanship of the writer. Any gun can be lethal or stop a threat. Having said that, I currently have a Sig X carry 320 deployed. But I could have a 1911 or an N frame .357 later. Depends on my mood. They will all work.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615