I don’t believe I’ve ever shot a duty pistol as well as my issued Model 28-2 that I carried for ten years, including the 1911’s I carried at the end of my career. I’m sure much of this is attributable to my vision steadily worsening over the years. While I don’t have a Corrective Lenses restriction on my driver’s license yet, I don’t have the 20-15 vision I started out with either.

The 7 round L Frames and 8 round N Frames came along too late to compete with autos. I considered purchasing and carrying an 8 round 627 on duty but most qualification courses are geared to at least ten shots before reloading and if you don’t shoot and reload like Jerry Miculek you don’t qualify. Autoloading pistols are just easier to reload under pressure.

I think the fondness for revolvers at duty weapons is really more nostalgia for the times when a tool like a Model 19 was seen as "the answer to a peace officers dream" and profound respect for the men who carried those weapons into very, very dangerous situations. While they didn't have to plan for school shooters or Isis they did have the likes of the Black Panthers and the SLA to contend with. And they did so with Model 10s, 15s, 19s, 27s, Police Positives, and Pythons and Winchester Model 12s, Remington 870s and a few M1 Carbines.



Supresive fire is not a role to which a revolver is suited. That said, a quality revolver is as good a weapon today as it ever was. Seattle Police Officer Jim Ritter takes a museum piece 1970 Plymouth patrol car to community events and is authorized to wear a vintage uniform and equipment when he does so. That includes a Colt Python in a cross draw holster. He says that he always shoots higher qualification scores with the Python than his issue Glock. He carries a modern 800 mhz portable when out and about in the vintage car and uniform and will respond to an in progress call if needed.

I wouldn't recommend robbing any liquor stores in his vicinity. If you did and didn't avail yourself of the first opportunity to "drop your weapon" you might just become an example to a young trauma surgeon at Harborview Hospital of why a few older doc's say all hand gun wounds are more or less the same, except for Magnum revolvers.

What’s the story on the top pic (Washington State Patrol Captain in the late ‘60’s - early ‘70’s)?

I couldn’t have said it any better myself.

SUPPRESSIVE FIRE? your rules on the use of deadly force must be vastly different than ours. how much collateral damage do your dept.'s inflict on the general public? **** like this is what starts twisting my tail. Leo, sheepdog, tactacool commando, sniper BS. What ever happened to Protect and Serve?

We decided to try something different. KThx.

The WSP Captain is Robert Ranney. He was the only uniformed officer reported to be present when the Seattle Chapter of the Black Panther Party arrived at the state capitol building in Olympia after the legislature revised the Washington Criminal Code regarding the open display of firearms to cause intimidation. The law was passed at the urging of Seattle officials after armed Panthers had appeared at a High School.

Fortunately it turned out to be little more than a photo op.

I am not an LEO, but in this current age, I would not choose a revolver as a duty weapon if I were. I love revolvers and carry them often. But my goal as an individual representing myself is to GTFO if SHTF unless I am in my home, in which case I presumably have nowhere else to go to seek cover, and further so, must protect myself and my family in the case of an invasion. If forced to engage a deadly threat my first choice would be a semi auto rifle, but if I were unable to reach a rifle, a semi auto pistol would be most useful, preferably a 10mm loaded with hot, heavy, expanding bullets, and as many of them as possible in the shortest amount of time. IMO a revolver would require selective, more deliberate, more carefully placed shots with the hope that the threat was a terrible shot. Hopefully I'm never in a situation where such defensive measures are required in order to survive.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Ugh... Once again, yes, suppressive fire. Once again, If law enforcement gets to the point they are using explosives to incapacitate, then they've BEEN using suppressive fire to keep the clown from shooting back; or do you think they threw ROE out the window and just went straight to using explosives?

If your tail is already starting to get twisted up, I'd just move on if I were you. I have a sneaking suspicion that you're not going to find any satisfaction asking me possible tactics one can use to engage and incapacitate active shooters.

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Ban this man,
'89

Thank you. I graduated and was “sworn in” in that very Capitol building forty years ago this month. (While I never knew Capt. Ranney, it’s always a pleasure to see the brass “walking point”... and I can assure you, there were more than enough Troopers and Sergeants just out of sight.)

A revolver against a Perp with a Glock and a 30 round mag ..

Doesn't bode well for the revolver toting officer !!

Based on the stories I hear about the "poor accuracy" of the average officer, it seems they should carry the highest capacity handgun they can.

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Stay protected my friends.

No. It's like going back to the SSA colts. Fine for their era, but that era has passed. When I began LEO, the .38 DA was king because it was the best thing available at the time...not the best round, but the one we carried. I transitioned to the auto era and never looked back. Qualification (I was a LEO firearms trainer) shows a clear advantage to the auto. Overwhelming.

The revolver is a fine weapon, just not for the 21st century.

My first duty gun was a Model 28-2, 4 inch. Then a Model 66-1, 6 inch (hard to exit the patrol car with that length of bbl, but the best shooter of the bunch). Then to a Model 10-4, 4 inch. When Glocks hit the scene, we were all reluctant until we got the basic issue ammo supply. 52 rounds!! Now that's some fire power. We never looked back. Thanks! Mick

...And that's a very specific scenario...not a daily task.

Be proficient and kill your adversary with as few rounds as possible. That's how a revolver works for law enforcement. You must hit what you engage hard and true. I think the PC reality does not enable the revolver man to walk the mean streets any longer. Stopping the threat is silly talk. The threat was told to stop doing whatever it was that he was doing and did not comply, so his ticket got punched. Who cares who he was or what mother is crying. She should've raised him better. She had her chance and he failed her. The blame lies with him and not the officer. 8 rounds of .357 will do just fine against whatever. Make them nice and hot bonded hollow points. You won't have repeat customers. Teach cops how to kill and how to survive. To hell with PC and the honest lives it costs. I vote Yes.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

I have been carrying a 1911 some. I think an eight shot 357 is a viable alternative to a nine shot 1911.

In today's social climate, it doesn't make alot of difference whatcha be carrying........

Your gonna get crucified if you ever have to use it to defend yourself.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

My two cents, that probably isn't worth two cents. In September I will have 24 years in law enforcement. I have been a law enforcement firearms instructor for 19 years and I am currently a full time instructor with my agency.

Does a revolver still have a place in law enforcement? I believe it does, in certain roles. I carry a customized 66-8, 2" every day. It's real hard to argue with a 125 grain semi jacketed .357 Magnum. I also shoot a 66-8 4" in IDPA and carry it when in uniform. I'm an active shooter instructor, and if the need arose for me to respond, I would be doing so with a wheel gun on my side and a Colt M4 in my hands. But if you give me a minute to grab my issued Gen 5 Glock 17, I will.

I think the same old argument still applies. You can't miss fast enough to win in a gun fight. My agency is close to 500 sworn officers. Less than 10% of those come to the range and utilize the issued practice ammo and the facility. Then they wonder why they struggle to meet a minimum proficiency level of 70% out of a possible 100. It's a 50 round state course, so you can miss the target all together with 15 rounds.

My feelings are that law enforcement as a whole has adopted the marksmanship mediocrity philosophy. One well-placed round from a wheel gun, vs. 18 misses, or non-lethal hits from a semi, are the norm. Shot placement is still the key. The biggest issue is no one wants to be in law enforcement anymore. Recruitment is extremely hard, cops aren't gun people anymore. Things have changed a lot.

When I went through the academy I think everyone had at least shot a handgun. Now it's not uncommon for a third, to even half of an academy class to have never even held a handgun, until we put that Glock 17 in their hands. What's the solution? I don't have all the answers, but I know that law enforcement as a whole needs to be held to a higher marksmanship level, and what they are shooting, will matter a lot less. I carry and shoot both, and even have a Glock 43 in my pocket, while sporting a wheel gun. I don't feel outgunned, but I'm also the exception to the accuracy standard, not the rule.

When it comes to reload times, we are back to the need for practice. I can reload a revolver with some Safariland Comp III’s faster than some officers can reload their Glock. My moon clip revolvers, even faster. I think proficiency with what you carry, is more important than what you carry. Again, we are back to just my two cents.

Call me old fashioned, but training priorities should be (in order)

1) When to shoot
a) When not to shoot
b) When to stop shooting
2) How to shoot
a) to stop the threat
b) as quickly and effectively as possible
c) without causing more danger to the public than you prevent

Volume of fire is way down in the sublist to #2.

Chicago PD recently had to deal with what happens when #1 goes out the window and 16 rounds effectively hit their intended target. It could have been more, but other officers on the scene stopped him from reloading and continuing. I'm not saying 6 rounds of .357 wouldn't have had the same effect on the suspect, but then when we trained with revolvers we weren't taught to do a "cylinder dump" every time.

That said, with the increased reliability of semi-autos and effectiveness of semi-auto ammo since I was on the job, I doubt I would repeat our range officer's instructions to new recruits today: "Buy a pair of S&W Model 15s- 4" for duty and 2" for backup and off duty".

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I need ammo, not a ride.

To me, the question, and thus the answer is more complicated than the simple issue of a six or seven-shot revolver vs an auto. Ammunition development in recent years favors the auto cartridges, tactics, including weapon mounted lights, favors the autos, and finding duty leather for a revolver might be difficult, especially with many agencies requiring retention holsters that may or may not include thumb snaps.

I carried a revolver on duty for years and when I transitioned to an auto it was mandatory. I know of no departments in my area of the world that permit revolvers anymore. The biggest practical drawback of the revolver is of course capacity and reload speed. I am familiar with the details of quite a few police shootings in my area and offhand can only think of 2-3 where the greater capacity and/or reload speed of the auto were factors and in only one can I confidently say if the officer had been armed with a revolver, he would not have survived. I am sure other examples can be found elsewhere.

If I was told tomorrow that I had to carry a revolver and speed loaders on duty, and if I could have the right gun and right ammo, I would not be too upset and would feel adequately equipped to do the job. But I would not say it was the best choice or even a prudent choice given the options and in some situations, I would definitely take a rifle on a call. To be fair, I am an old guy and none of the younger cops would agree with me on this at all. And, FWIW, I only rarely wear a uniform and duty gear and until very recently, I no longer wore a uniform at all. perhaps if I were again on the street every day, I would feel differently.

As a side note, where I am, I now see ARs being used in almost as many OIS cases as pistols. The landscape is shifting and rifles are now deployed on many, perhaps most, calls with armed suspects. I suspect that whether a pistol is still an effective law enforcement weapon vs a rifle will be a poll subject in not too many years.

So, yes, a revolver can still be effective in police work, as can a single action revolver or double barrel shotgun, but there are better choices in most situations.

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I see dead people

If this is the case, then the department's training program needs some work.

In my department, I'm not letting an officer carry a revolver because he's "comfortable" with it. We'll train him until he can master and is proficient with the semi auto firearm we issue him.

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IMO there is still a place in law enforcement for revolver, especially if they are equipped with the magna trigger. Officers tasked with transporting high risk offenders to court should be equipped with these for additional safety to the officers and the public.

I still see one occasionally on an HPD officer when I'm in Houston. I think some where grandfathered in. Every one has been a stainless S&W, either a 66 or a 686.

Well, I am sure I have the qualifications to say this. I would rather have a crusty old veteran with a wheel gun, that was not only confident, but also proficient with their wheel gun - than a rookie that shot just a passing score. Accuracy is everything. Rounds fired is not. You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight. Many agencies found out the hard way, through law suit settlements, that saying one gun, or caliber fits everyone. If you can shoot it accurately, qualify with it proficiently, and it meets the departments standard, let them carry it.

Autos are a passing fad. All they really do is encourage spray and pray.
NYPD Officers Fire 84 Shots At Suspect, Miss 83 Times | HuffPost

84 rounds fired. One hit.Maybe they should just issue frag grenades.

When I started as a peace officer (49 years ago) we didn’t even have speed loaders (brass said they were “unproven”) so most uniforms had either dump pouches (my Dept.) or belt loops. We all knew that reloading would take time so everyone carried several revolvers.
Still, revolvers wouldn’t be too good a choice today. The people in law enforcement have changed dramatically (no longer just large males). If I was going to war again, I’d take my old M1 Garand, rather than the malfunctioning M16 I was issued when my unit was sent to Vietnam in July, 1965. However, I can’t imagine that recruits of today (small males and even smaller females) could effectively use that old weapon given the short amount of time and effort that currently goes into weapon training. Times (and people) do change.

Speaking of Audie Murphy;
John Berry arrived in Texas as a veteran, son of a veteran, and father of three men who would grow to be soldiers who fought to secure the independence of their adopted home. The story of this family of fighters is fascinating and important in its own right, but it would be incomplete without mentioning Berry’s most distinguished direct descendent — Audie L. Murphy — John Berry’s great-grandson. Murphy was a legendary Texan who became the most decorated combat soldier of World War II, and truly lived up to the fighting legacy of his ancestors.

All awesome and valid points, but don’t forget Audie Murphy stood only 5’ 5”.

He could handle an M1 Garand just fine.

Actually, I think he preferred and carried the M1 carbine
This has been a very interesting read and I guess it doesn’t surprise me that the poll is almost 50/50.

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“Look life in its iron face”

Berry Springs Park & Preserve Georgetown, Texas
A native of Kentucky and veteran of the War of 1812, John Berry (1786-1866) moved in 1816 to Indiana. In 1827 he brought his family to the Atascosito District of Texas. Mexico awarded him lots in Liberty and Mina (Bastrop) when those towns were founded.

Berry’s oldest sons, Joseph (1811-1842), John Bate (1813-1891), and Andrew Jackson (1816-1899), served in the Republic of Texas Army. All three were Texas Rangers before and after the War for Independence (1836) and in the Battle of Plum Creek (1840). Joseph was the first casualty in the Mier Expedition (1842), and John Bate was in Perote Prison for a year.

A Williamson County pioneer, John Berry settled three miles northeast of Georgetown in 1846. He built a blacksmith and gun shop and a spring-driven grist mill near Berry Creek. Berry had 18 children by his three wives: Betsy Smeathers (d. 1818), daughter of pioneer Texan William Smeathers (Smothers); Gracie Treat (d. 1830); and Hannah Devore (1812-1904). Five sons and three sons-in-law served in the Confederate Army during the Civil War (1861-1865). Berry died at age 80 and was buried near his home. His descendants include a great-grandson, Audie Murphy, the most decorated soldier in American history.

I looked at the poll, then read a few remarks, then read the question the poll was asking again.

I'd have to say "no" too. If the question was asking if I'd choose a revolver for duty use in 2019 I'd have said yes, but that's not the question.

Police officers I knew had no real knowledge of firearms or how to shoot them. They needed a high capacity magazine because they couldn't hit squat with anything and using the magazines as a crutch made them feel better. I don't blame them though, not at all. The weapons training they receive is not designed to teach them how to use a firearm for actual duty use, but only how to pass a qualification course to show they have a minimal level of competency. And very few of them can do it on the first, second or third attempt. The most important part of carrying a firearm is being confident with it and after hearing how much better an auto is than a revolver they will never accept the latter.

Wow, that duty rig in the picture looks scarily familiar. Is that leather Don Hume?

PS: Sorry, just saw that the picture is from an on-line source. Please disregard.

I certainly respect your experience and thank you for your years of service. I agree with you that accuracy is everything, rounds fired is not. I've been a LEO for 25 years and in today's LE environment, training is better than it was some years back. Budgets are still tight, but back in the day qualifying and training were synonymous, not so much these days.

Officers/deputies picking and choosing whatever they can qualify with (within department standards) may work for some small departments like Mayberry USA or rural Montana. My department was that way when I first started, but fortunately we outgrew that mentality and our training has significantly improved. I'm not anti revolver any more than I'm anti lever gun, but I don't think either are best in most environments these days.

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Disregard the rest, but this is my first duty rig with my M28-2 and dump pouches; sometime around 1977-1979. Notice the Bianchi Berns and Martin style front break. Yep, that's what we drove way back then.

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	CPD Plymouth.jpg (88.2 KB, 112 views)

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Dave Frost

In 1997 or 98 my OIC had me do a project to see how many officers approx. 8500 , were still qualifying with their revolver.The dept started issuing the Beretta in approx. mid 1989. So about 3500 to 4000 people on the job who had originally been issued revolvers. Officers could take a transition class as semi autos were first approved in mid 1986, so a training cadre, and transition schools had to be set up. I think classes started sometime in 1987 or so.
That gives you an idea of amount of officers as by late 90's most officers had the chance to attend S/A transition school if they wished. This was a 2-3 day school and had to qualify every month for 6 months with their 9mm be it Beretta or S/W. Anyway my audit showed that about 270 officers were still using their revolver to qualify, however about 1/3 of those officers were 9mm trained and carried that weapon but found it easier to qualify with their revolver ( a large portion of these were females) nothing implied that's just what I discovered, due to several rounds having to be fired with the weak hand , the longer and firmer 1st trigger press may have been the issue. Remember this was before we had computers so this was a labor intensive qual card and approved weapon hand search. As soon as computers came into play the rules were changed to insure you qualified with what you were carrying .
Clearly most officers preferred the semi auto for firepower and ease of loading.
Ammo being 38+p 125 gr SJHP rev or 115 JHP for semi .
I was a hard core revolver guy. Before going to the Academy ,I carried a model 6" 14 in a left hand Bianchi Judge holster, with a S/W 3914 in a special made pocket holster in my right front pocket, the holster had a forward pointing clip , so that the pistol sat up in my pocket, with just a bit of the grip and mag showing , but I covered it with my radio, and usually had my hand , thumb in my pocket , on the gun. I had the rear sap pocket of my pants sewed up short and it held an extra magazine.
When I transferred to the academy went to S/A carry as that was what we were teaching. With me it was never an issue of not being confident with a revolver, even at that time I already had 15 years of serious PPC shooting under my belt, it was about firepower, and the advantages of the Beretta( later a PC 5906) in a combat situation. Reloading a revolver, running, in the dark, or laying on your stomach is way more difficult than with an autoloader, I don't care how much you practice. Add the ease of putting night sights and lights to the equation and its really no choice for modern LEO.

I recall a good many years back a shooting between two CA Highway Patrolmen engaging a perp during a rainy evening on the highway. Not only raining but it was dark. Both were lost in the gun battle. I don't recall what they were facing or what kind of weapon. But they were carrying revolvers and trying to reload. Their loaded rounds were found on the highway among the empty brass they had discarded. Imagine trying to pick up dropped live rounds off the wet highway when they are mixed with empty brass.

I don’t think they are a good idea for modern law enforcement. With the volume of amo that a bad guy can carry and the speed they can reload at...nope. You owe it to your fellow officers and citizens to carry the most fire power you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought this would happen someday. Someday is here. I have been the only one carrying a revolver for the past six years (627 Pro Series). Yesterday, word came down, no more revolvers. I have been qualifying with a few 1911s for the past couple of years. I mostly carried them when teaching classes. Four of them are engraved, One of them engraved and gold inlaid. Several have beautiful grips, some wood and some silver and gold. I also have some custom made hand carved leather. The floral carved rig with belt slide type holster really shows off the engraving. Tough choices as to which to carry. There is a fully engraved S&W 100th anniversary with very fancy grips, an Ed Brown Special Forces with silver and gold grips, a Kimber Diamond Grade, a Colt Defender Plus, a Wilson Combat and a Gary Reader Rekon Kommander. Not exactly slumming. The bad guys deserve to be shot with a nice looking gun. Three Tripp Cobra mags in a triple slimline Mag pouch. Last Saturday marked my 45th anniversary as a law enforcement officer.
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I voted no. Logistics and cost are now an attribute of polymer striker fired pistols. I love my Smiths but in today’s environment, the bottom feeders make sense as a primary agency issued and maintained handgun.

Very interesting thread.

I thank all of you LEOs for your service.

Then "WE" need to get fired. it's law ENFORCEMENT officer not uniformed unaccountable mob. and don't give me a bunch of **** of not knowing how it is. i deal with more violent felons in a day than most leo's will in a life time. and i get to do it unarmed were as the i/m's are not more often than not.

REAL COPS CARRY REVOLVERS

there is a security guard/who is also a hospital police officer here that carries a 5 shot rossi snubby as his primary , his load is remington 125+p jhp bulk pack. this is a legit police force with patrol cars holding cell the works. I am in Warren Ohio.

I also recently retired. Started with a revolver and transitioned to either Glocks or Sig in 357 Sig, depending on changes in management. I don't believe that a revolver is a capable weapon for primary firearm. However, I think that a wheel gun makes an acceptable backup gun. Although shortly before I retired they took away the approval for even that.

Since I'm retired, it's either a Sig 229 or Glock 32 in 357 Sig if I'm going anywhere with a Ruger LCR in 327 Fed Mag. I carry it in lieu of a separate mag on my person.

I just had lunch yesterday with a friend I went to high school with, who just retired from a local, small-medium city police department as a Captain at the beginning of last month. He served 29 years. We got to discussing his duty sidearm, because I knew most of his career he carried a revolver.

He told me that the day he retired, that revolver was still on his hip. He said when the police department transitioned to semi- autos, he was given the option whether or not to switch over. He chose to stick with his revolver.

Now, his father also retired as a captain from the same police department after serving 30 years, retiring just before my friend started his career. The SAME revolver that my friend carried was also carried by his father. That revolver, which turned out to be a 4 screw S&W model 15 no dash, shipped in 1960, had been on that city's streets for a combined total of 59 years!!

The stories that revolver could no doubt tell!! My friend was considering having it refinished, but I told him due to the history alone of that revolver, to leave it just the way it is.

When they figured out how much 38 Special ammunition they had that nobody else would use in training and qualification, they changed their mind and grandfathered me in forever.

I wonder if that's the same guy that works security at the Sparkle store on Parkman road?

I guess not many revolvers being worn today as a duty weapon. All the other officers are used to level three and four holsters. I had one ask me what kept my revolver in its holster. I told him GRAVITY.

I can't imagine any modern police agency issuing revolvers, especially the quality of revolvers being made today. I don't think it's practical or even possible. Maybe prison guards, who keep their revolvers for decades and don't use them except once a year, in my state.

Individually, I guess some old timers do. For a lot of my career, we carried revolvers, back in the 70s-80s, when the choices of autos were very limited. When I returned to LE, in 1996, everyone was carrying an auto.

If you look at any cop-involved shooting, I can't remember any videos of LEOs using revolvers. Usually, they'll fire more than six times...sometimes a lot more.