Just saw a story on our local TV news regarding an armed homeowner shot by an officer with our sheriffs department. The news story was about the officers bodycam showing his report was not accurate, but still deemed a justified shoot, and being cleared for return to duty. While the misreporting is unfortunate, the incident is illuminating to anyone in a home defense role.

The police were initially summoned to the scene at midnight, by a medical "app" on the cell phone of the homeowners mother-in-law. There was no medical emergency.
Unaware of the "app" emergency, the homeowner investigates the "disturbance" of the responding sheriff's arrival, with a pistol in his hand.
As homeowner approaches the front door, pistol in hand, he is spotlighted through the door's sidelight by the deputy and shot.

The bodycam footage and story are here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ideo-came-out/

A few moths ago, someone was knocking loudly on my front door at 3am. They were yelling something I couldn’t really understand. I came to the door with my house gun in my hand down behind my thigh, out of view of whomever was on my porch. About the time I got to the door I heard an officer yell Police and I looked out to see two marked units and 3 Police officers. So I put the gun down well away from the door and opened up. The officers said I had three 911 hang up calls and they were there to check our welfare. I told them I didn’t have a home phone so maybe they had the wrong address. They checked and gave me the number to my fax machine which is our only landline, since removed. No idea how my fax machine was calling 911. We all had a laugh. I got SWATted by my own equipment.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

The video never shows the homeowner pointing a gun at the deputy, the deputy lied when he said the door opened and a gun was pointed at him. Hard to say that was a justified shooting.

That's one for the books, but I use to live not far from that area, and it was known as a place that you could get shot in a traffic stop. This one is one for the books. Hurt them in their budget.

Maybe don't "investigate disturbances" with a gun in your hand? If you're worried enough to have your heater out, maybe taking a defensive position and calling 911 is justified.

I've never understood the mindset that wants a door that allows anyone outside to see into the house. The first house I owned had a solid front door with a tiny door at head height to allow you to talk to anyone without opening the door. Wish I could find one now.

Calling 911 every time you have to go check something out will get you on the crank list quickly. Plus, response time can be highly variable.

I wholeheartedly agree. My front door is steel and has a peep hole, and there is a Ring doorbell as well.

I seen that video a few days ago. The cop lied in his report. The homeowner was inside with gun in hand and arm was down for the most part, not in a raised and ready to fire position. The cop shot him thru the window next to the door when there was not threat.
Another trigger happy cop that should be prosecuted but because most of todays cops "serve and protect each other" they investigated themselves and found no wrong doing, imagine that. If he had not been a cop he WOULD have gone to jail.

When cops screw up they need to be cuffed just as fast as they are to cuff anybody else these days. That is what I have a problem with about cops. The standards for a good cop shooting have been drastically lowered over the last 30 years.

The current protests about the cop that shot and killed the dude who charged him with a knife is completely stupid. I think it took the officer a little to long to drop him, but the officer was playing dodgeball with an idiot with a blade trying to play murderer. Great outcome on this one.

This happened to me once but not in the middle of the night. Same thing I think, fax machine on another line.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

We had a female cop in Des Moines get fired for lying about an incident. Her camera showed she was lying and she had some previous problems.

The female cop in TX who was just convicted of murder really screwed up but I don't see it as murder unless there was a history of problems between them.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Looks like the good citizens of Greenville will be stroking a seven-figure check to this guy as an out-of-court settlement. If I'm the guy, the settlement only gets agreed to with the dismissal of the quick-triggered LEO.

I wasn't trying to litigate the shooting.

The story illustrates how important home-defense situational awareness is. Also, the potential danger of brandishing a weapon in your home, if your not absolutely sure that your not being observed. And, obviously, the tactical disadvantage of clear glass at an entryway.

This seemed like an otherwise unremarkable event that might happen to any of us, if a few minor mistakes align. Like Sergeant Esterhaus said on Hill Street Blues, "Lets be careful out there".

After thinking about this a little I’m wondering if this is a medical emergency app on the mother in law’s phone, why weren’t paramedics and an ambulance dispatched? What were the cops told? Was this a burglar alarm as dispatched? Or a burglary in progress? I don’t recall showing up in full battle mode to any medical emergency.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

All great points. I for one never answer a knock at the door without first seeing who's there from a second floor bedroom window. This will tell me in an instant if there's a marked LEO in the driveway. If I can't tell, and no police car, I don't answer.

However, if that same person then starts banging on the door, then it's an immediate 911 call. Let the LEOs deal with it. That's what they're paid for.

I was also curious about what happened at dispatch after the MIL didn't answer her phone and the medical app service called 911, but couldn't find a transcript in any other publications.
As for the sheriff responding to late night medical calls, I've noticed that happen before in several jurisdictions.

They make this thing. It’s called a “holster”.

I will readily admit that on April 18, 2018, when my home alarm went off and I got a burglar alarm that I misunderstood for a break-in in an outbuilding out in my backyard I was outside as fast as my legs could carry me, two dogs racing at my side, 3" M686+ IN MY HAND. But since I have 6 foot/7 foot locked fence/gate I was prepared for a fight, not a police officer. Turned out to be a fire but that's a whole other story.

My doors are always solid. My new ones have small glass windows up high but nothing that allows anyone to see inside. OR reach into a broken window to unlock the door.

Peepholes are great. Huge, decorative glass front doors make me crazy - so, so insecure.

They make them. Called speakeasy doors. With metal grates. You can get them with glass or with little doors that open up.

One should never open the front door for a stranger. That should be a rule....


A series of horrible errors in judgment. Mistake on top of mistake. If she appeals I expect her conviction to be overturned and a new trial ordered. The jury should have convicted her of criminally negligent homicide, not murder.

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Come and take it!!

A long time back, I had a phone that charged on a base, then carried around. With age/use, the base called lots of different numbers,
all by itself. The second time it called 911, I got a new phone.
Luckily, I was home both times. Might've had to buy new doors otherwise.
As just a taxpayer, it seems that the rules have changed for LEO's.
They Really don't have any idea of what might be waiting for
them nowdays. Druggies, whacko's, you name it; it's a balancing act
for every Leo. Esp. if he/she wants to go home okay after the shift.
TACC1

Your comments have much validity and should be carefully considered by anyone examining these subjects.

As a retired cop all I will say is if the cops shot every idiot who did something totally deserving on a daily basis there would be a serious dent in the population. I do not make this statement as a reflection on the situation under discussion, nor do I make this statement as a commentary on anyone in particular. All I am saying is that the cops are generally very, very cautious in confrontational situations while many people (innocent and not so innocent) do completely stupid things on a regular basis.

People are people, and that includes the cops. Good people do bad things, bad people do good things, and everything in between, every single day.

Meanwhile, I will continue buying all of my pencils with erasers on them because I make mistakes all the time. No one else should be blamed for my errors.

Best regards.

Simply put: Sue the police's butt off,you come to MY door at o'dark thirty you will be seeing weapons and you start shooting I will return fire I respect cops but being an idiot can get you killed.

I say this after a rather unpleasant encounter with my state police this summer and while we worked it out by talking I have serious reservations over cops wandering around my area and getting trigger happy,no I didn't get shot but almost did and frankly while it bugged me it didn't scare me just ticked me off-we have private property and the cops need to respect that unless they get an actual threat called in about an address,if they're just wandering around they need to mind their P's and Q's and not get all rambo.

If I lived where this happened I'd literally find some way to make a ruckus and let the city leaders know I don't feel safe with Barney Fife running loose,he can still be a cop just not one who's allowed a weapon.

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Life's a grave,dig it!

Bingo! While sidelights can add a lot of class & style, I would never have them on my front door in a million years. That is really asking for trouble. Even with windows in the door, you need a good curtain, privacy glass or some other way of blocking folks from seeing inside.

Don't necessarily agree with all of the conclusions offered in AZ2VET’s post, but do agree it sure seems that EVERYONE, specifically including the police, would be well served if some type of inquiry into police shootings was required that was not conducted by law enforcement agencies. I’m not sure what form this inquiry and its participants should take, but it’s absolutely clear to me that public distrust of law enforcement will continue to increase until the cops are no longer allowed to investigate themselves in shooting incidents.

I agree to a point. People that have not walked in a cops shoes should not be in a position to pass judgment for or against him. A review board should have an equal number of retired cops.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I like how everyone is bashing the cop without having the slightest idea what idiot thing dispatch told him, or knowing what this "medical app" told dispatch.

The amount of cop-hate on this forum is disgusting.

I think that’s a great idea. My city was reorganizing our Police Review Board. So as a former cop I thought I would apply for a position to at least have one person with experience to offer a perspective. But it was filled up with Pastors of various denominations, community organizers, and social workers. It would’ve been a very frustrating volunteer experience for me. It was full before I could even apply.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

I love cops and recognize that they have an extremely hard job. But I also don't have my head in the sand that all cops are saints and anything they do is ok. It's not mutually exclusive.

SWATted by mother-in-law? i can see many divorcees nodding their head affirmatively.

A gun in hand is a gun in play. The time for an opponent to come from down at the side to a firing position is less than the reaction time of the officer. That's problem A. Problem B is that the mind puts 1+1 together and gets 2, when the correct answer is 1.7, comes to the answer of 2 faster than the conscious mind of anyone else will know what is going on. It's been written about in several settings. The deputy may have been in error in his perception, without being dishonest.

911 medics call resulting in cops being sent can vary by local culture, by the nature of the neighborhood, etc. Not enough info to be sure.

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NHI, 10-8.

All else aside, we should all be concerned any time an officer shoots an innocent person in his/her own home.

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Georgia On My Mind

It happens way too often. Walker County deputy who shot and killed man after fake 911 call will not be charged | WTVC

To be clear, I agree with this officer not being charged.

...be LEO’s just like some people should not have a gun(s.)

This deputy should have been charged...the prosecutor should be fired (or impeached, not re-elected, whatever) for not charging him.

That did not happen but the deputy should be fired for lying. Period.

If the good citizens of that jurisdiction abide wholly unprofessional LEO’s they got what they deserve. And I am not speaking of the victim of this horrific act.

Be safe.

Yes, far too many examples of poor decosion making, even cowardice. Not a majority, but enough to add perspective. The Parkland boob was a glaring example. There are dozens every year. Unfortunate, but reality. Cops are just people like everyone else.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

My front door has a decorative window large enough to allow anyone to see too much, and I have answered the door in the middle of the night with a firearm in hand. I find this thread very insightful, has me thinkin' about fixing that window.

Where I live, the odds of the sheriff knocking on my door after dark are extremely low. Not impossible, but darn close. People know it's dangerous to disturb homeowners. Better be a good reason.

A fair statement.

Likewise, the amount of drooling on each other and self-congratulations by LE on this forum is equally nauseating. It's a defense mechanism.

It's like a see-saw. The direction everything else in this country is headed= Politics, social issues, religion...

There's not much middle ground to be found. People don't see individual incidents or actions for what they are, they see them as a side to be taken.

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Because of the metric system?

I get how the cop seeing the guy with gun in hand could jump to the wrong conclusion. But, in my area you would have to be poorly trained and informed to go beating on someones door in the middle of the night and not expect who ever answered to have a gun in hand. But, then a cop around here can expect to see a gun on a good percentage of traffic stops. A cop who moved here for California would have a heart attack the first day.

You don't like the fact that your liable for shooting an innocent man using a gun to protect his home when you go beating on doors in the middle of the night, maybe you should get a different job. Sorry, but, just because your law enforcement gives you no more right to shoot some one for just holding gun than anyone else. If a citizen had beat on the same door and shot the guy who answered, because he was holding a gun, he would be in jail. That deputy should be fired and locked up.

I'm glad you might be able to put the thread to use. An ounce of prevention ....



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

Insufficient training / failure to train in the use of lethal force = need to lie and or falsify after action report.

This kind of thing,
It leaves a black mark on all of us that protect and serve.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

BTW. there are lots of easy to install cameras (with night vision) available, I don't even have to go to my door to see who is on my place, I can look on my phone if I want.

IMHO------- Just good common sense. If nothing else walk through your house or business and think about scenarios. Most of all do Not take for granted that anyone else involved is on the same page as yourself.
Jim

You are making an unwarranted assumption stating the officer lied. All that can be known from th3 body cam footage and his report differing is his perception of the incident was disproved by the camera. It is only a lie if he knowingly makes statements he knows to be untrue at the time the statement was made.

Your remark shows a definite anti-police prejudice.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

This is a example of why stuff like this is bad way beyond the actual injuries. Homeowners like to think that the have a right to protect themselves in their home and be safe from the police. They have every right to believe this. The police have a hard job to do that is often dangerous. So members of both groups view this from their own prospective. How can a LEO not be extremely on edge when he sees a non LEO holding a gun?? Everyone gets it that the amount of time between gun held at side to boom your dead is less than a second. Both sides of this should have done a better job.

Keep gun out of sight, (no windows or what ever. LEO announce yourself and give time for response. Shining a bright light at a guy in his own home and blinding him to who was there didn't help.

Well, I was not there....for the incident in the OP's reported.

But, while working in uniform (Class A's) I have responded to scores of alarm calls.
In the rural counties that I patrol'd, false alarms were the norm, not the exception.
The SOP was to 'KNOCK & ANNOUNCE' and continue to announce with every loud knock.
And do so for as long as it deemed necessary to determine if the residence was occupied or not.

Out on the rural route, I always expected the home owner or occupant to answer the door armed.
It's just common sense that folks are concerned for their safety in this day and time.

Hence the announcement. On alarm calls, I would position my vehicle where the emergence lights
would be visible to any occupants answering their door, to my response to their alarm.

And I am thankful, I never had to shoot an innocent homeowner.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Just pointing out, we don't know what exactly the officer said/did (the tape been heavily-edited), or what he was told, what he was trained to do, or what SOP dictated.

What works in a rural area most certainly does not work in a major city. Same deal for time frames.

Well, it may never be known what really happened....

The matter may be settled out of court by the city's insurance carrier with a non-disclosure clause.

I know of several of these type incidents being resolved in a like manner.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Body cameras give a very poor visual of what really happened, from a narrow angle. To a great extent, they are not trust worthy. What the research has found is that the police use force of any type very rarely, often so rarely that no conclusions can be drawn, and to that to the extent any conclusion can be drawn, offender behavior drives the train. The majority of the discourse about LE and use of force is wrong, and often fabricated.

There are cases, probably no more than 10 a year, where LE is flat out in the wrong; most cases are not that way. In fact, an analysis of the available data on deadly force shows that LE kills about 4% of the assailants who present a risk of great bodily harm every year. For more fun - when the frequency/intensity/quality of training increases - there are more fatal OISs - because threat recognition and response increase by a lot.

Like Dave Keith, I have gone to homes to wake folks up for various reasons, and I had my overhead lights activated (and headlights off). (I would not do so with a report of a crime in progress, but I also was taught that callers need to be kept on the line. I actually parked 100 yards or so away, depending on the neighborhood.) I have also been the caller, and made sure I KNEW that the person coming to the door when I called was a cop - even if I had to call back, and I made sure to not have a visible firearm, keep my dogs inside, etc. It's a 2 way street.

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NHI, 10-8.

Just curious, but you expect us to believe that you are wearing a holster at night, when you are in bed, or may have been awoken from sleep?

I'm thinkin' you need to change your name from Wise A (the A you most assuredly are, the Wise is up for debate), to Rambo, seeing as you wear a holster 24/7.

Just sayin'.......

Yeah, actually. That's why I keep saying stuff like "the best home defense gun is the one that you have on you".

It's not hard. Put on your pants, clip the holster+gun combo onto your belt, and fix your various buttons and zippers. Takes all of 2 seconds. Why you'd want to confront an intruder in your tighty-whiteys is beyond me, anyway.

If this is too much :effort:, drop the 6" N-frame for a pocket .380 in a little nylon waistband holster. You can even pick a pocket auto light enough not to yank down the waistband of your Old Man Sweatpants.

And yes--if I'm the one explaining how to put your pants on, maybe insulting my intelligence is not the right tack to take.

Now, if you want to discuss the pros, cons and feasibility of 24/7 carry like an adult, feel free. If you want to keep trading juvenile insults, I'd refer you to the mods.

Like others have said, I have solid doors and I don't open them until I have identified who has come calling and why.

One of the benefits of pocket carrying an LCP in a Sticky is that it is not visible unless I want it to be.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I have had my late night encounter already... had wife with phone down the hall... me at door with 1911... conversation thru door, they identified themselves as officers... quick peek showed uniforms... put 1911 on fridge out of sight and opened door... my first question was "what do you want.." they replied with "is anyone else at home"... yes, my wife and son... can we talk to her... why? can we talk to her? she replied what do you want... are you ok? yes, why... Domestic violence call... they, of course, were at the wrong address... could have gone south quickly... the officers acted properly and so did I... thankfully...