If you're on the church security team all of that should have been clearly explained to you.

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Retired Career Security Guard

I admit that it is a difficult discussion. Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough. The assumption was 'that a security team would be on board'.

I think we can agree from some of the comments, that NOT everyone who might come through the door is qualified to use a firearm in an emergency SD situation or for defending others.

The last thing we need is to have some unqualified GG shoot another GG, GW or congreant accidentally. So unless you search everyone coming in and pat them down or use a detector it can't be prevented. (We know that is not likely to occur).

This requires organization and discussion by the Board of Elders and how they choose to handle it. As one OP commented getting volunteers for security can be done. Perhaps the local sheriff or police chielf can advise and assist with training and organizing. "We" don't know the individual problems each church will have. We can't solve them here on the forum for them. All we can do is discuss.

As CCWs we have to know when NOT to shoot just as importantly as when to shoot. If the SHTF and there is a shooting it is possible that other GGs or security will consider anyone presenting a pistol to be a BG? Even a security team should be able to recognize its members and other GGs. We know there are sometimes more than one BG involved. We know that happens also. Just having unqualified GGs carrying isn't likely to solve the problem. Setting up a security team could.

It was my purpose to get a discussion started. That worked out better than I had considered. I am scheduled for my annual qualification tomorrow morning. I'll be celebrating my 86th birthday toward the end of this month. I never figured that I would be around this long.

Gentlemen,
I deleted several posts.
I’m sure you can express your thoughts, without insulting those who share a different opinion.

I’ll also add that religion is a banned topic on this board. We’ve given a little leeway, but focus on the carry issue and avoid delving into specific religious doctrines.

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"I also cook."

By the way. What ever happened to " separation of Church and State"? The same people that would be gnashing their teeth and pulling their hair at the mention of a Nativity Scene in a elementary school classroom, are allowed to dictate what you can have on you in a house of worship? You people in those states need to get together and Take them to court. There must be enough Muslims, Jews, and Christians in any state that can get together and protect ALL out rights. We can disagree about doctrine later.

I think the “churches as private property” argument Lobo made a few posts back makes the most sense. In my state, carry in Houses of Worship is prohibited by statute. Same as hospitals, ER’s, courts, etc. That’s too rigid.

Church buildings are private property open to the public. Not that much different than a retail store. Whoever controls the property, whether that’s a landlord or a local board of elders or someone high up in the denomination, should have the ability to say whether weapons are allowed and who gets to carry them. Like any other private property owner.

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Vegan by proxy.

Lets face facts .
Any gun free zone is a killing field .
Why... the victims are unarmed , they can't defend themselves and law enforcement can't do anything until after the shooting has started .
The victims are totally helpless and dependant on law enforcement officials to save them .

You know how that usually turns out don't you !
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

What's this gun free zone you speak of?

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Pass it on.
Mark

I noticed that several of us expressed concern about the training and/or ability of folks carrying guns. Not that there's a consensus, but it seems like folks are concerned about friendly-fire accidents and such. Well, OK -
but I don't know of any FF incidents where a civilian carrier shot someone by accident. Not that there aren't any, but I like to think I pay attention to a bunch of sources and I just haven't heard of it.
Now, I have heard of police officers hitting bystanders....wasn't there a case in NYC not too long ago where something like a dozen people were hit during an NYPD gunfight? And there have been others.
Anyway, my point is that civilian concealed carriers seem to be nowhere near the threat that they're made out to be.

Excellent point. And if it EVER happened (or happens) ANYWHERE we all know the MSM would be (will be) trumpeting it all day every day for at least a couple of weeks. Because it fits their anti-gun agenda.

Like you, I haven't seen it either. That tells me it ain't happening, and therefore those concerns are WAY overblown.

Not saying it can't happen, just that the odds are pretty low,
considering that there are an estimated half a million DGUs a year. With that many opportunities for it to happen, the fact that we aren't hearing about it happening frequently tells me that it isn't a huge concern.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Most of us drive (with a license). The time is coming when our reflexes ,our eye sight and our physical abilities begin to diminish and that will probably happen before our Dls expire. Will we be smart enough and willing to surrender the right to drive when the time comes?

Just after the first horrific church shooting in Texas an 80 some odd year old gentleman began carrying in his own church in another state. One day he just had to show the gun to someone in church ,pulled it out to do so and accidentally shot and killed his own wife.

Very similar in the church I attend same scenario began to play out. An 80 some yr old got his CC , bought a handgun and began carrying. One day he came up to me and wanted to pull his handgun out to show it to me just as services were about to start. I told him in somewhat strong language to not be an idiot and to not even think about pulling that weapon out. This same man swept me with a loaded weapon at his home during a visit. Have never been back. He also left his handgun on a pew in a case on a Sunday it was found on Wednesday ( by an adult thankfully) when contacted he had not even missed it.

Even thought this man has a CC, he has no training and whats more no common sense.

Just because the state gave you a Drivers License does not mean you are safe to drive. Something to think about.

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LEX ET ORDO

According to reports regarding the recent church shooting in Texas seven members of the congregation drew their firearms and it was no danger. If the shooter gets by the first level of defense, i.e. the trained security, I want to be able to defend myself, my family and others with my personal firearm. That would probably involve near contact distances.

lawandorder.

Well said. AMEN!

Bekeart

That sort of idiocy can occur anywhere. It just happened to be in a church. Unfortunate, but that's the breaks with an armed society.

But it sort of begs the question: Is it better to have to deal with an elderly, distracted CCL, or risk the potential of being mowed down, along with many others, because no one is armed?

Personally, I'll take the risk with the spacey geezer over the nut with intent to do harm.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

That was exactly the point I was making earlier.
I'd rather take my chances with untrained and even unqualified people trying to SAVE people's lives than take my chances with a nutjob intent on TAKING innocent lives - especially if there is no one around with the means to stop him.
All this talk about "the average joe isn't qualified" just sounds like more of the elitist mindset that says
"WE get to decide who has the right to self defense" to me.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Just because one has a badge doesn't insure safe gun handling and common sense either. I've heard way to many, "Leave it to the police!" lectures and really can't agree with any of them.

I get the analogy. I guess I'm not a fan of Drivers License comparisons.

Drivers Licenses are a privilege issued and controlled by the state. The 2nd Amendment is a constitutionally protected right (should be anyway). We would be appalled if a test and a license were required go to church/synagogue/mosque/temple. It's a constitutionally protected right. The right to carry should be the same.

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Vegan by proxy.

Bingo. That's exactly what it is.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

I truly think, I'd rather be shot by a well meaning friend,

than some damn terrorist......foreign or domestic.

.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I don't think that this case represents most of what's going on, and i don't think that it should determine policy. But it did happen, and probably happens occasionally elsewhere. All of us septuagenarians and older folks need to be on our guard. Even more for the driving than for the carrying!

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Formerly Model520Fan

What is you point? You didn't state what you wanted to see get accomplished.

I agree, but not for the same reason:
It's because when seconds count, the police are minutes (or more) away.
We don't have a cop on every street, every corner, every church. In my 35 years, I took a hell of a lot more reports of what already happened than situations where I just happened to be there when something occurred. I started advising people to get their own protection a long time ago, and it's still the best advice.