Trigger reset. To use or not to use?

[Execpro]

It’s everywhere! On YouTube videos with factory adds and reviews on new pistols. Almost everyone is talking about the trigger reset and how loud it is or is not. How far the trigger travels to reach the reset point etc.. It’s become a major sales point!
You get the impression that if you can’t hear it or if you allow the trigger to go past it back to its full travel and don’t use the reset (on a pistol), that you don’t know how to shoot or you would loose in a life or death gun fight/self defense shooting. (Over exaggeration)

JMO. Unless you are an Operator that shoots thousands of rounds a year and trains with a gun that is set up with a custom trigger for that purpose, the self defense shooter is doing a disservice to themselves by trying to use the trigger reset and under stress you could short stroke the trigger and you won’t hear the “click” anyway.

What do you think?

[Eric300]

ALL triggers re-set.....at some point, right? The quicker the trigger re-sets, (usually) the faster you can get the next shot off. I suppose you can say the same with over-travel. When rapid fire shooting, the 'textile' portion of the re-set is a moot point.

[Ziggy2525]

IMO, if you’re competing, it probably matters. Seems like lots of people successfully defend themselves with a pistol without knowing much more than how to point it an pull the trigger. Then, maybe not so much.

[blues7]

People are way overthinking this to the detriment of focusing on what really matters...imho.

[bigwheelzip]

I was strictly a revolver gal until I took private shooting lessons with simulated stress situations that highlighted my difficulty of making multiple quick follow-up shots with long DA resets, often getting short-strokes.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[tg4360]

When you are a new shooter or teaching a new shooter, proper follow through and then release to reset is how you build fundamentals of proper trigger manipulation.

Once that is mastered then you start to add speed.

It is always done IF you have time.

Under stress, your speed trained muscle memory will take over.

[fatcat3]

So let me get this strait. The BG is making all sorts of racket, the Mrs and bystanders are crying bloody murder, you just fire something between a 25 pocket rocket and a .45 1911 at arms length from your ears,...... and your going to hear a click? I AM IMPRESSED!

[ContinentalOp]

I like a firm trigger reset, but I don't care about hearing it or even feeling it. I release the trigger all the way before firing again, though I do try to keep my finger in contact with the trigger. To me, a firm reset can help mitigate the risk of short-stroking the trigger, but won't totally eliminate it. I think it may help with speed shooting as a stronger reset typically means the trigger will also reset faster, though I couldn't say if that would actually be of any significance.

I think the problem stems from competition shooters who "ride the reset," letting the trigger only move forward enough to reset before firing again so they can get faster splits. Which is fine in a competition setting where one only risks losing points. In a self defense situation, I wouldn't trust it out of fear of short-stroking; thus, I let the trigger return fully forward.

This is why I prefer full-power springs in DA revolvers. When I had a Glock 23, I used the NY1/"-" combination partially because it made the trigger more revolver-like, but also because it had a stronger, more defined trigger reset than the factory set-up.

Just my opinion.

[gwpercle]

In a real "situation" after the first shot ...you can't hear much of anything .
I wouldn't give the hearing the "reset" theory a whole lot of thought and I would give it no concern .
Practice with arm of choice and depend on your trigger finger to "feel" the reset location...hearing will be iffy at best .
Gary

[diyj98]

I like a short trigger reset, but honestly only notice is when dry firing or examining a gun. When shooting I can't say that I really notice.

[jim lock]

Imho if you are worried about trigger reset in any weapon especially your CCW you are definitely NOT spending enough time at the with that weapon.
Jim

[Pisgah]

"Trigger reset", along with "this pistol shoots low and left", are things blamed by inexperienced shooters for their poor shooting --- when the fact is, it is their incorrect trigger technique that is at fault. Usually these excuses are called upon when a shooter acquires his first "safe action" or "DA only" pistol after years of shooting a single-action pistol. They are unable or unwilling to learn the different trigger-management technique required for the new gun, and therefore it becomes the gun's fault.

[H Richard]

If you have ever witnessed Jerry Miculek at any speed shoot, (many on the internet), you can see that trigger reset does not slow him down with revolvers. It's all practice and training. Jerry does not put lighter springs in the trigger rebound on any of his revolvers. The strength of the spring helps the speed of the reset. For more near mortals, a 14 Lb spring seems to help.

[Fastbolt]

I shoot to trigger recovery, not mechanical reset. I don't wait to 'feel' the click or try to hear it.

I shoot a variety of different handguns. All them have triggers that recover, but the mechanical reset points can vary. For example, the reset of the S&W 3rd gen, P/SW99 AS & SIG SRT pistols are incredibly short ... but a DA revolver isn't. Everything else I own and shoot falls somewhere between those examples when it comes to the mechanical reset point and the length of the trigger recovery.

I don't want to experience a trigger's failure to recover (short-stroke) under any circumstances, but especially not under the stress and duress of an actual shooting incident.

That's meant putting in a lot of range time to ingrain good trigger technique so I don't fumble and short-stroke a trigger.

As a LE firearms instructor I've been required to train LE not to try and hold a recovered trigger at the reset point. Why? Well, if someone is holding their finger on a trigger face and they're startled, or they experience a yip (tremor/spasm), or they unexpectedly stumble and clench their hand/fingers, or they experience a moment of 'hand confusion' ... it's easier to unintentionally press a trigger you're holding (or trying to hold) just short of the 'breaking' point. If the gun fires without the shooter having intended to fire it, and the shot was fired due to something the shooter negligently did, we have a term for that. It's called a Negligent Discharge.

Also, as an instructor I've seen my fair share of shooters on live-fire ranges unconsciously trying to catch and hold a recovering trigger at the mechanical reset point, so they could be ready to fire 'faster', and while they were still experiencing the effects of recoil they unintentionally tripped the trigger, rocking it under recoil, firing an unintentional shot.

Yes, there's apparently some disagreement among trainers and gun companies about this subject.

I look at it this way, though. I don't want to be questioned on the stand in a criminal and/or civil case, as a firearms instructor, and have some attorney ask me to explain the 4 Rules of Firearms Safety ... and then immediately ask me why I'd trained someone to intentionally put (or keep) their finger on the trigger before they'd decided they needed to fire a/another deliberate shot and put a hole in something.

Now, if someone else (for whom I've not been responsible to train) thinks that in the midst of the stressful, traumatic, chaotic and rapidly evolving circumstances of a deadly force incident they're going to be able to clearly hear 'audible reset', 'connector slap', or feel a 'tactile trigger reset point'? Not my business or my problem. If they can be that attuned to everything happening that they can overcome the effects of Tachypsychia (altered perception of time), auditory exclusion (don't hear things like gun shots or shouted voices), tunnel vision and any possible combination of sensory deficits that can occur? More power to 'em.

Just my thoughts.

[Sevens]

I understand the concept that in a stress situation, it is natural to "fall to your level of training", I truly do understand and agree to that.

At the same time, defensive use of a handgun is not what started this lifelong journey of mine in to handguns. Every single one of us finds our place in this world -- the things we love and enjoy, the things that are important to us and the things we wish to do with our time, money, passion and our possessions.

I feel confident that my "experience" with handguns will serve me well in the unthinkable event that I might need to use one in a defensive situation but gunfights have never been the focus of my love and passion for handguns, shooting and handloading, and I doubt it ever will be.

To that end, I shoot my ugly, soulless Tupperware tools differently then I shoot my prized Performance Center Limited target guns.

I also spend a lot of very enjoyable time on gun forums discussing nuances of models and mechanics and collecting, and I don't spend a lot of time talking about tactical mindset and protracted high volume gun fights.

[Fastbolt]

Originally Posted by Sevens

I understand the concept that in a stress situation, it is natural to "fall to your level of training", I truly do understand and agree to that.

At the same time, defensive use of a handgun is not what started this lifelong journey of mine in to handguns. Every single one of us finds our place in this world -- the things we love and enjoy, the things that are important to us and the things we wish to do with our time, money, passion and our possessions.

I feel confident that my "experience" with handguns will serve me well in the unthinkable event that I might need to use one in a defensive situation but gunfights have never been the focus of my love and passion for handguns, shooting and handloading, and I doubt it ever will be.

To that end, I shoot my ugly, soulless Tupperware tools differently then I shoot my prized Performance Center Limited target guns.

I also spend a lot of very enjoyable time on gun forums discussing nuances of models and mechanics and collecting, and I don't spend a lot of time talking about tactical mindset and protracted high volume gun fights.

I completely understand and empathize with gun owners who greatly enjoy their ownership of guns to use for enjoyable leisure pursuits and hobbies like target shooting, sporting competition and hunting. BTDT.

However, my days of handloading and pleasurable public range trips and backwoods plinking are mostly behind me in my days of being a young man. My perspective has changed over the years because of having served a career in LE, as well as having served as a LE firearms instructor. (I'm not a hunter, having given up my varmint hunting days as a young man who had other time-consuming pursuits. )

Nowadays, I only visit a range (and almost exclusively an available LE-only range) to practice and assess the state of my skillset. Granted, I may occasionally slip in the use of one of my SA revolvers or .22 pistols or revolvers, but I still use many of the same training and qual drills I use with my 'working' retirement' weapons, just in case I might ever find myself having to use them in that role.

Different strokes.

[Fastbolt]

Another comparison that I find a little relevant ...

Lots of folks enjoy various types of martial arts pursuits for reasons of health & fitness, sport, mental discipline and physical accomplishment.

Then, there are those people who prefer (or are strongly motivated) to devote their study and practice to the self defense and fighting aspects.

The people who feel the need to enjoy just the former can easily find what they desire and satisfy themselves ... as can those who either have the interest, or the actual need, to pursue and practice it for the latter.

Some may seek both, of course.

As a young budding martial artist in my late teens, I wanted it all. Now, in my 49th year of having maintained my interest and pursuit of various arts, I find I've also included an awareness and desire in my training to actively avoid revisiting some of the particular stresses and injuries of my youthful pursuit.

The 'defensive tactics' training over the course of my LE career overlapped with a little with my arts pursuits, but not as much as some people might think.

[OKFC05]

I am an instructor; most of my students are older, many are widows who don't want to move to town, and want to learn the guns they have, now that their husbands have passed on. These students are a delight.
I shoot IDPA, and get some young shooters who have watched all the WRONG videos, and want to learn the "secrets." They want to learn how to use "going only to reset" when they are still yanking the trigger. IMHO, the current obsession with "going only out to reset" is the bane of effective training.
In speed shooting, when the good shooter realizes the gun has fired, they move the trigger finger out and, while the gun is recovering from recoil, "prep" the trigger by taking up the slack, and fire the next shot as soon as the sights settle back on target. THAT is a proper "double tap" in competition. If you wait to hear/feel the reset, you're behind.
Mike Seeklander Training - Bing video

[sotexas]

I honestly don't bother with the thought while shooting but am very cognizant of reset when doing quiet practice. When practicing doubles or rapid movement down the target line I fire, get back on target and fire again. I try not to think (over analyze) when I am doing something under stress but instead shrink my focus and act.

[tg4360]

And a little reality check based on the thread title...

The ONLY way to shoot a repeating weapon is to, "reset".

Consciously when learning and at practice, muscle memory at speed when necessary.

Also, no one should ever be taught to run any firearm by ear.

[growr]

Do whatever pleases you.....

Randy

[scooter123]

I shoot revolvers quite a bit, have one with me on every trip to the range. With a revolver the rule is that you release the trigger by lifting off the trigger completely. Try and ride the trigger and sooner or later you WILL short stroke the trigger. Obviously I am one who isn't the least bit concerned with how loud or distinct the "reset click" is because I don't use it.

BTW, when I really push it I have hit 0.2 second split times. However my groups do open up at that rate so I normally train with a split time around 0.3 seconds with a Semi and feel that I am just fine firing at that rate. I will also note that when I shoot my 1958 vintage model 36 with it's original pencil stocks I can barely break under a 1 second split time because I must re-grip after every single shot. Experience with the model 36 is why I carry a Ruger LC9s.

[OLDSTER]

In an adrenaline fed, panic driven, self defense situation ( I've been there), trigger pull, reset, over travel, etc. are like fine sights; non-factors. You'll never even remember you pulled the trigger, much less how many shots you actually took. For self defense, even caliber ( I carry a Seecamp .32acp) isn't as important as the three "R"s--RELIABILITY, RELIABILITY, RELIABILITY.

[robvious]

it is a major topic of conversation currently... and make for pretty good chatter of no real consequence... when it counts, if you are waiting for something to "click" and let you know it is ok to take a second shot... you lose... training with your chosen carry or home defense weapon is the only thing that will help... send more down range... talk about any of the fun and funky things that make this better than that... but please practice, I know I am worth it... your choice...

[stansdds]

When I was competing in USPSA matches, using a M1911-A1, I really never noticed the trigger reset. I might have felt it, I certainly could not hear it, but with constant practice the reset became more of a muscle memory thing than a tactile or audible thing.

[Grayfox]

I primarily shoot DA revolvers and 1911s. They're total opposites as far as trigger reset is concerned. Yet, with time and practice, I shoot both just fine and don't concern myself with reset. I know which gun I'm shooting and muscle memory takes over from there.
OTOH, my preferred DA/SA pistols are the older all metal, hammer fired Sig Sauers. Here I like the Short Reset Trigger Kits as it brings the reset more in line with my 1911s. All my Sigs have a SRT kit in them. I just works for me.
But honestly, I never think about trigger reset when actually shooting. Its all about what you're used to and knowing the gun that's in your hand.

[WR Moore]

Like Fastbolt, I spent many years as a law enforcement firearms instructor. I also competed in IPSC, USPSA and TPC with a few toe dipping trials in IDPA.

Every once in awhile one of our solid, but not exceptional, shooters would produce really awful targets. 99% of the time, it was because they'd been looking at utube videos for ways to improve. If you're going to seek information from videos, there are some outstanding sources: Clint Smith/Thunder Ranch, John Farnam/DTI and Panteo (sp?) Productions are just a few. Yes, you'll pay for the videos, but you'll be getting the information from the horse's mouth, not the other end of the critter.

The growth of the various action shooting sports has spawned a focus on rate of fire. Real world, those hundredths and thousandths of a second between rounds aren't going to matter. Hits do. By hits, that's good, solid hits on threats. Over decades I pretty much established that the difference between a good shot and a not so good shot is about 0.1 seconds. Take the 1/10 of a second.

I can't recall ever being aware of trigger reset when under time pressure. The issue with short stroking the trigger noted in post 5 is a clue that the person wasn't practicing enough under time pressure. If you do, your muscle memory should take care of making sure the trigger travels far enough to fire the next round.

I've noted a couple of things in posts above: letting your finger lose contact with the trigger is not a good thing. It usually leads to an abrupt reconnect with the trigger and a yank that takes the sights off line. If you've perfected it, fine and dandy, but it's not a good general practice.

Likewise, trying to take up the slack/"prep" a trigger on a firearm that's under recoil may well result in an unintentional discharge going who knows where. Might not necessarily be true if we're talking about a 12 lb DA revolver, but on something like a 1911 with a 4 lb pull, not a good idea.

[Fastbolt]

Originally Posted by OKFC05

...
In speed shooting, when the good shooter realizes the gun has fired, they move the trigger finger out and, while the gun is recovering from recoil, "prep" the trigger by taking up the slack, and fire the next shot as soon as the sights settle back on target. THAT is a proper "double tap" in competition. If you wait to hear/feel the reset, you're behind.
...

As long as the people being taught have a firm realization and understanding of the difference between 'prepping' a trigger when they're racing to make that subsequent intentional shot, versus just prepping a trigger in case they think they may want to fire another shot.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

I'd rate that right up there with fertilizer.........

[CB3]

I shoot most of my non-double action handguns aware of the reset. Especially with dry fire practice at home, it works to ingrain feel and muscle memory of pulling the trigger correctly and fast. The audible component is helpful here; useless elsewhere.

When I shoot my DA revolvers and semi-autos, I barely lift my finger off the trigger to make sure I don't short stroke the next shot.

These are actually advanced skills that I won't teach to newbies. Lifting your finger off the trigger can encourage snatching and jerking the trigger. It is very hard to have your finger go forward and (almost) hit the inside of the trigger guard then come back, contact the trigger, and make an even, smooth pull. This applies to rifles as well.

My trigger pulls are unconscious actions in loud environments or when shooting fast. I don't hear or feel the reset consciously, but of course it is there. This is why it's an advanced skill that is useful, perhaps even necessary, in a real life defensive shooting. I'm not saying one would not survive a gunfight without this skill. I am saying it is one more small advantage that a trained person might use to increase shooting speed and accuracy, along with a good, practiced trigger pull.

There are many such small, incremental advantages debated on the interwebs. So many people are satisfied to be average. They think it is all they need and point to so many survivors of gunfights who were no more, and perhaps even less, than average.

Then there are others who train frequently, and hard, because they feel every slight advantage they gain may some day be the game changer for them. It probably won't, but there is nothing wrong with trying to perform to the highest level possible.

Having a fast draw is useful, but one must practice. One doesn't have to use it in some fights to win, as timing is sometimes more critical than speed. But if it is not in your tools, it is not an option.

Being able to point naturally and quickly with sights accurately aligned and pull the trigger within 1.5 seconds from concealment takes real effort and practice, which is hard to get at most ranges. So many will argue its not necessary.

Enough ammo on board is never a bad thing, yet statistics . . . blah, blah, blah. Until it's your turn to actually be in a gunfight.

Carrying a spare mag or feed strip is inconvenient and statistics prove . . . blah, blah, blah. Until you really need more ammo for whatever reason.

These and many other such defensive advantages are advanced options that most likely will never be used. They will always have their detractors.
However, having unused skills is never a bad thing.

Someone should ask Jack Wilson whether he thinks some of these skills, including shooting by reset (even though he only fired one shot), helped him save lives on December 29th in Texas.

Another man with (less than) average skills, carrying Small of the Back, is dead.

Train hard. Cheat. Get every advantage for yourself you can. Fight hard. Use your brain faster than your gun.

Or not.

[Fastbolt]

Originally Posted by CB3

I shoot most of my non-double action handguns aware of the reset. Especially with dry fire practice at home, it works to ingrain feel and muscle memory of pulling the trigger correctly and fast. The audible component is helpful here; useless elsewhere.

When I shoot my DA revolvers and semi-autos, I barely lift my finger off the trigger to make sure I don't short stroke the next shot.

These are actually advanced skills that I won't teach to newbies. ...

I've used awareness and understanding of the mechanical reset point as part of teaching shooters to become familiar with, and understand, the design and normal operation of their various LE weapons, meaning rifles, shotguns and handguns. For example, part of the normal safety inspection of an AR, especially after field-stripping for cleaning, involves knowing how to check for the trigger 'resetting' to make sure it's functioning normally during bench checks and manipulations before the rifle goes into service.

For those folks who carry various pistols on-duty, but want to carry revolvers off-duty, or as approved secondary weapons on-duty, it's very important for them to understand that running a DA/DAO revolver trigger at speed requires an understanding of the long trigger recovery, to avoid short-stroking the trigger.

Trigger control falls under the general heading of shooter-controlled factors, and improper/unsafe manipulation can also fall under the subset of shooter-induced problems, if someone isn't careful.

I just make sure the people I've helped train understand the distinction between something being presented and done for teaching/learning about how a firearm is designed and normally functions, versus a 'technique' meant to be used under the stress of various live-fire situations.

[Donn]

Competition, yes. In the chaos of an SD situation, no. Your attention will be on the business at hand.