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Old 02-10-2020, 08:10 AM
Harrychristopher Harrychristopher is offline
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Default Switching from Auto to Revolver for Self-Defense Considerations

I have switched from a Sig 238 auto to a Smith and Wesson PC 642 as my daily carry gun. As part of my transition between these two weapon genres I have taken a more in depth look at the malfunction clearing drill for the revolver that I had not really explored prior to the decision to switch platforms.

After years of actual time behind the auto trigger the clearance procedures for those malfunctions has sort of become ingrained in the portion of my thought process that addresses small arms management. The knowledge for dealing with revolver malfunctions was sorely lacking when compared to the auto knowledge.

There have been articles written about defensive revolver employment that seem to indicate that the revolver will very rarely experience a malfunction so the operator need not expend a great deal of time worrying about such an occurrence taking place during a self-defense situation. I belong to the school of thought that believes anything with more than 2 moving parts has the inherent potential to fail during actual operation, this delightful event usually occurring at the worst possible moment....such as when trying to defend your life.

Once again Mr. Grant Cunningham has risen to the forefront in providing 10 pages of excellent illustrated instructions regarding dealing with revolver malfunctions and 9 pages of reloading the revolver with one hand with would be applicable if one were injured during a self-defense affray. This information is published in his 2011 book entitled, Gun Digest Book of the Revolver. This particular volume of Mr. Cunningham's is the only one I have seen in local Barnes and Noble stores while the rest of his books have to be ordered from online sources.

The auto litany of "tap, rack, bang" is so ingrained that I don't consciously have to think about it. Should a problem arise I have 3 different protocols to call upon for clearing a semi-auto pistol. I do not have the same degree of familiarity with the revolver protocols and since I am now employing that tool for daily carry it would behoove me to get up to speed in this regard.

I have all 3 of Mr. Cunningham's books on revolvers used for self-defense and so far they have provided a wealth of hands on knowledge that is critical to those individuals who have chosen the revolver format as their platform for endeavoring to keep themselves and their loved ones alive. These books are highly recommended.

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Old 02-10-2020, 09:01 AM
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Mr. Cunningham's books are excellent. So are Mr. Lovette's. It's good to read and learn things the easy way.

I have been carrying/shooting revolvers of one sort or another for a long time as I am 66. Anything can have issues but I consider a well sorted out revolver to be about as reliable as a mechanical device can be. I do believe in doing the spin test with one's carry ammo.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:23 AM
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Default Revolver Check

When cleaning, loading or unloading the revolver, it is always a good idea to check the extractor rod to insure it has not loosened. A loose rod will either prevent the gun from opening or closing. With a Smith, turn counter-clockwise to tighten. Properly tightening the rod is a bit more involved and requires a padded vise to insure against tool marks. It is also necessary to have two shells or live rounds in the cylinder to prevent shearing of the two extractor alignment pins.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:42 AM
Harrychristopher Harrychristopher is offline
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Quote:
When cleaning, loading or unloading the revolver, it is always a good idea to check the extractor rod to insure it has not loosened. A loose rod will either prevent the gun from opening or closing. With a Smith, turn counter-clockwise to tighten. Properly tightening the rod is a bit more involved and requires a padded vise to insure against tool marks. It is also necessary to have two shells or live rounds in the cylinder to prevent shearing of the two extractor alignment pins.
Excellent advice that I was not aware of regarding loose extractors. Thanks for bringing it up.

Harry
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:59 AM
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I had a 642 that locked up on me a couple different times in IDPA BUG matches. When it locked up the fix wasn’t as easy or as quick as “tap, rack, bang.” My experience has been if you have a revolver malfunction, in the short term the best you have is a club in your hand.

I carry a revolver from time to time. I accept there are some limitations if it malfunctions.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:07 AM
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Not to call the choice to carry revolvers into question or anything, but for all the folks who carry revolvers out of concern regarding semiautomatic pistols malfunctioning, I have to ask... Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting you on your decision, I'm just legitimately curious whether your decision is based on experience with semiautos frequently malfunctioning or merely the possibility that it could happen.

Personally, I've had nothing but luck with semiautomatic pistols, but then again, I lack the time nor means to frequently shoot high volumes of ammunition, especially not the highest quality Self-Defense ammo.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:10 AM
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I do a quick daily inspection with my revolvers. I check to make sure the area under the extractor is clean and the screws and ejector rod are tight. While I'm doing this I have to open and close the cylinder, so I take that time to make sure nothing binds. I also do a quick inspection of my reloads, whether speedloader or strip, to make sure nothing's broken or worn out. Takes, at most, a minute. If I had a Bodyguard, I'd also make sure there's nothing stuck in the hammer shroud. I wipe off the gun at the end of the day, even though it's stainless steel/aluminum alloy.

I also practice revolver malfunction clearing drills periodically.

Wanna try something fun? Try doing one-handed, weak-side reloads with a snubby revolver.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:17 AM
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Just beware that unburned powder kernels under the extractor star can keep the crane from closing. Being a reloader, I only use clean burning powders for my SD reloads.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
Not to call the choice to carry revolvers into question or anything, but for all the folks who carry revolvers out of concern regarding semiautomatic pistols malfunctioning, I have to ask... Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting you on your decision, I'm just legitimately curious whether your decision is based on experience with semiautos frequently malfunctioning or merely the possibility that it could happen.

Personally, I've had nothing but luck with semiautomatic pistols, but then again, I lack the time nor means to frequently shoot high volumes of ammunition, especially not the highest quality Self-Defense ammo.
Being a semi-auto guy that occasionally carries a revolver, IMO semi's are more prone to operating malfunctions. Things that can't happen to a revolver like limp wristing or having the slide knocked out of battery in a tussle. Compared to an M&P or a Glock, a revolver is mechanically more complicated, at least somewhat more prone to mechanical failure, and if you have a mechanical failure the revolver is out of the fight.

But you know what they say about internet opinions.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
Not to call the choice to carry revolvers into question or anything, but for all the folks who carry revolvers out of concern regarding semiautomatic pistols malfunctioning, I have to ask... Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting you on your decision, I'm just legitimately curious whether your decision is based on experience with semiautos frequently malfunctioning or merely the possibility that it could happen.

Personally, I've had nothing but luck with semiautomatic pistols, but then again, I lack the time nor means to frequently shoot high volumes of ammunition, especially not the highest quality Self-Defense ammo.
My own opinion is that reliability differences between revolvers and semi-autos are practically nil, assuming they're good quality guns and maintained properly. When I carry revolvers it's not because I think they're more reliable.

I have had a couple of issues with revolvers, both of which wouldn't have prevented me from firing, but reloading would've been difficult, at best. One time my ejector rod came loose, which is why I check it regularly now. The other was the stud on the bolt that the cylinder release latch nut screws onto sheared off. This was a used revolver and it occured during my first range trip.

I've had a couple of feeding issues with semi-autos. One was a 1911 that didn't like Hydrashocks and the other was a Glock 23, but I attribute it to limp-wristing as it was my first time shooting a polymer pistol. I know in one of those cases a tap-rack-bang wouldn't have worked and needed to have the magazine removed.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:24 AM
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I've owned and carried many different revolvers and semis. I can say I've never owned a semi that didn't have at least one malfunction of some sort along the lines, I have also yet to have a single malfunction with a revolver. Not saying they don't or can't happen because they do, but a good revolver, simply by its operation, will always be a more reliable weapon than any semiautomatic.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:40 AM
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I carry a Ruger LCR .38....only 5 shots,I know....whenever it's shot in practice,it gets cleaned, and checked weekly....just feel good with a wheel gun, but my 9mm Shield 1.0 is a nice little gun. I'd carry it also
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:47 AM
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Please, allow me to chime in. I can accept that, by design, revolvers can be more reliable. However, they can come with their own unique idiosyncrasies!

Almost 25 years ago, I was shooting in a friendly club bowling pin match. As usual, I was able to clear the table in 5 shots with my Model 27 (fired single action) faster than my opponent using a crew served 9mm with a reload. I was using an everyday 38 Special load. When I went to clear the revolver, the extractor rod separated from the extractor star, the star stayed on the cylinder, never clearing rounds from the chambers.

Because of that experience, I tend to not have 100% confidence in a revolver, and strive to make each round count before I have to do a reload!

According to my gunsmith, the two parts were press fit. They are no longer press fit!
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:21 AM
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Most days my EDC's a Shield 45. Occasionally, when dress dictates, it's an old Model 49 snub. Extensive range time with both, so I'm confident with either. Due respect to my fellow forum members, but malfunctions suffered in competitive meets and bowling pin shoots are not a true yardstick of revolver dependability. In an SD situation, hundreds of rounds won't be expended, it'll just be a few. You probably won't run dry, even with a J frame, so issues that come up in competition likely won't happen when less than a cylinder, (or auto pistol magazine), are expended. The only advice I'd offer is to get proficient with double action. With only 5 or 6 shots, you can't afford to miss. That, and keep it clean & oiled.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:28 PM
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When revolvers let go, it's usually a trip to the gunsmith to fix it. That said, they recoil differently that autos and my wrists DO NOT like the twisting an auto gives them so after 50 years of carrying an auto, I'm back to a revolver. A lot to re-learn, a lot that's new (full moon clips) but I'm finding a wheel gun carries nicely and aside from much slower reload times I'm happy with my 629 or 686+
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:53 PM
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I tried a couple autos for carry guns. 1911. Glock. M&p. Some malfunction more than others. Some never have. But I’ve always went back to a revolver. It’s the simple point and shoot that I’m most familiar with. I like 1911 pistols don’t get me wrong. Never could get past the thumb safety. If I practice with it I always forgot to push it down. The others I tried have no manual safeties. My m&p 9 runs flawlessly. One stovepipe in my glock in countless rounds. My shield (I’ve had two) sometimes won’t go into battery all the way. It’s not that autos fail. Revolver never does. Revolver can fail. Had it happen one time. Bullet jump caused the revolver not to turn. Wasn’t too hard to fix but under pressure I wouldn’t have seen it so quickly. The main thing is carry what feels comfortable to you. Autos malfunction more often but can usually be cleared quickly with practice. When a revolver fails it’s gonna take more time. All this said I carry a 642 or 640 most. Sometimes a 686 but my back gets the best of me after a while. I even used to carry n frames quite often. At one time it’s all I had besides single actions. I would suggest choose your carry ammo wisely. Practice using speed loaders. Make sure the grip fits your hand well.
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Old 02-11-2020, 05:21 AM
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[QUOTE=Dirty Harry Callahan;140668667] Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?QUOTE]

Yes. But not enough to lose any sleep over. In 50+ years of shooting I have had TWO revolver issues. Both with the same gun, both extractor rod backing it self out. ( tightened and added some of the wife's finger nail polish the second time been fine since) In that time I have had a coupe of dozen with a bottom feeder. ( excluding 1911's that had been "fixed" at a kitchen table to shoot tighter of feed X bullet. and a number of S&W 4006's) Just lucky I guess. Oh buy the way I am one of those people that have NEVER had a .22 rim fire fail to go bang when the hammer fell.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:31 AM
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Oh buy the way I am one of those people that have NEVER had a .22 rim fire fail to go bang when the hammer fell.
Way to jinx yourself.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:39 AM
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Revolver vs. Semiauto malfunctions IMHO (internet opinion LOL) are based on the quality of said firearm, the cleanliness of said firearm and the ammunition that you know will feed correctly. I've carried both and have gotten fond of a Dan Wesson 15-2 and a S&W 360 for my EDCs and I do prefer a revolver over a semiauto but that is my personal preference because I can shoot my revolvers better than I can shoot my semiautos.

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Old 02-11-2020, 08:45 AM
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I would venture there are more shooter failures than gun failures in shooting situations.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:50 AM
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Oh buy the way I am one of those people that have NEVER had a .22 rim fire fail to go bang when the hammer fell.
That's unusual. Highly unusual.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:26 PM
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I started with Revolvers. Working in Gun Stores for years I could have and carry anything I want. I never could warm up to a semi auto for long. I lost count how many I’ve had. I kept one Glock 26. Haven’t shot it in 5 years. I carry Two J-Fames daily. Got some Pachmayr Compacts coming for the 3” . This will be the setup for a while.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:20 PM
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Environment should factor into EDC of choice.
Living in a low threat mountain area, a 642 suffices for runs to the neighborhood store.
Heading to a big city where threats intensify, a Sig P365 replaces the 642.
Regardless of choice, hope to be one of the hundreds of million folks who get to go through life without ever having to use one.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:51 PM
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the 2 semi autos i carry that i've got 100% confidence in are an H&K P2000sk [9mm] and a Sig P250sc [9mm] both hammer fired. the small pistols i carry....380 Body Guard and Remington RM380...my confidence level is 99%. the RM380 is more reliable [my opinion] due to a massive hammer and stronger hammer spring. have never had a problem with either. they are kept very clean and well lubed and serviced anytime i put even one magazine through them at the range. that includes disassembling and cleaning the magazines. just my .02 cents worth.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?
Yes, I have had a number of semis malfunction, and some of those include jams that were difficult to clear. The difficult to clear jams typically involve the cartridge misfeeding and getting lodged in a way where it wouldn't just fall out when I cycled the slide or where there was an issue with the extractor and the shell had to be manually extracted from the barrel. The gun ran normally after so it wasn't a broken extractor.

Other examples: I had a H&K USP that would blow the mag out of the bottom of the gun when I ran Underwood JHPs.

I had a new Glock 26 that had extraction issues and would hurl brass at my face hard enough to actually hurt.

I had a Glock 36 that would fail-to-feed every 20 rounds or so, which is unacceptably high IMO.

I've had many issues with multiple semis not reliably feeding a particular JHP ammo, but the only way to test it is by firing a bunch of expensive self-defense ammo.

The more you shoot semis, the less you trust them IMO.

Conversely, in the many thousands of revolver rounds I have fired, the only issues are one squib from a reload and one particular 100 year old gun where the extractor rod needed to be locktited or it would back out. One caveat though - I have gotten a few very old revolvers where the timing is questionable. I knew these were problematic when I got them and they don't get carried. I need to find a local smith who can work on them.

The way I look at carrying a gun is that in the vast majority of "gun fights" only a few rounds are exchanged. So I require a gun that is as close to 100% reliable as possible, and I don't mind sacrificing capacity to get that reliability. I also prefer the added horsepower I get from carrying a magnum revolver.

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Old 02-11-2020, 11:58 PM
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The best self defense weapon is the one that you are capable of putting a round through their left eye.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
Not to call the choice to carry revolvers into question or anything, but for all the folks who carry revolvers out of concern regarding semiautomatic pistols malfunctioning, I have to ask... Have any of you actually experienced a substantial amount of malfunctions, especially ones which couldn't be quickly/easily cleared with factory ammo and a modern semiautomatic pistol design?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not faulting you on your decision, I'm just legitimately curious whether your decision is based on experience with semiautos frequently malfunctioning or merely the possibility that it could happen.

Personally, I've had nothing but luck with semiautomatic pistols, but then again, I lack the time nor means to frequently shoot high volumes of ammunition, especially not the highest quality Self-Defense ammo.
I am old so a lot of the basis for my decisions is also old. I have had a number of S&W revolvers from the 1980s have some serious mechanical issues. I had even more bad experiences with Colt 1911s from the same time period. This was not just one or two pistols either.

Modern pistols are a different story. I have shot the **** out of my Glock pistols and sometimes with ammunition of poor quality. I have never had a malfunction in one of these pistols. I have never had to replace any parts except the recoil springs. I am not sure that was really required. IMHO a well sorted out Glock is as reliable as a well sorted out S&W revolver. My problem is pocket carry. J frames simply work better for this. If I were a policeman, that J frame would be in my pocket and I would be looking hard for a Glock 19 to put in my holster.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:18 PM
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I carry both/either depending on my clothes, mood, and where I am going.
I carry quality guns and keep them clean. They'll work every time.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:15 PM
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My experience over the years at both Federal & State re-qualifications with both revolvers and pistols that were WELL maintained (By me) were this.

I never had a malfunction with my revolvers on the first cylinder and NEVER a mechanical problem, but on more than one occasion there were 2 or 3 rounds in the tray at the end of course fire due to reloading issues (All sections of course fire are timed. If when the whistle blows and you haven’t fired ALL rounds for whatever reason, they go in the tray at your shooting lane) . Cases expanding in the cylinder making it hard to eject or freezing the cylinder in the frame, case under the star after ejection taking time to get out before you could recharge the cylinder etc.etc..
With pistols, In approximately 12+ re-qualifications (60 rounds per re-qual) I had 2 times the slide didn’t go into battery. 1 double feed. 2 stove pipes. Never an issue with reloading. All jams cleared and course of fire finished before the whistle blew with never a round left in the tray. I have 2 pistols (both hammer fired) & one 6 round revolver for concealed carry. You can draw your own conclusions.

I agree with the consensus that most if not all self defense situations could be resolved with a revolver without the need to reload, but as mentioned above, I feel more comfortable with a pistol if there is a chance I might have to reload (Going to mailbox or working on the property vs going into the big city/suburbs). JMO

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

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Old 02-12-2020, 11:44 PM
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For me it's not the reliability of the handgun, it's the reliability of the shooter. I've switched from using an auto to using a revolver because I'm not as capable as I once was.

As we age, our physical and mental abilities change. Reflexes slow, strength diminishes and cognitive function undergoes significant changes. Even stress reactions, such as perceptual narrowing and the like, increase with age. Using a revolver is simpler. Not as much to remember, less chance of operator error under stress or any number of other factors.

For me a revolver makes better sense as a defensive tool. Even if I should find myself in a situation where I need to shoot, it's not going to be a gunfight with prolonged exchange of fire, so capacity isn't much of a factor either.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:52 AM
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I cut my teeth using a revolver and that is what I carry. With that said I have no issue with carry of an auto . Both should be of good quality, well maintained, and ran regularly with the ammo you carry for SD. For the most part I believe in sticking with one platform or the other rather than mixing the two. In choosing I think location is a factor to be considered in choosing the platform. Location can effect what type of threat is likely possible. Larger cities for me means more possible a multiple threat and would likely dictate a semi auto for me. Whatever a person uses it only has to be right for you. I knew a guy that always carried at least 3 handguns, and at times 4. A little much for me.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:24 AM
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I switched to a revolver a couple of years ago. The main reason is I like the longer heavy trigger pull for safety concerns vs a semi-auto. I am not a leo, and I think a revolver works well for self defense. Even though not the main reason I switched, there is some situations where a revolver is more reliable. For the first 5 or 6 shots at close range, I would prefer a revolver. In the last few years they have been 2 high profile shootings were the semi-auto failed after the first shot. The biggest advantage a semi-auto has is capacity. I carry a k frame snub, and i am aware i only have 6 vs 15 rds when I used to carry my Glock 19. I have about as safe a life style as you can have and I think a revolver is a safer, better choice for me.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:36 PM
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You can always have the best of both worlds. S&W makes a pistol that functions like a revolver (Has a hammer). Springfield Armory and a number of others make them too ( double action with long trigger pulls and second strike capability).

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

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Old 02-15-2020, 06:04 PM
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My carry piece used to be a full size 1911 in a Milt Sparks IWB holster. I "rediscovered" revolvers at age 67 a couple of years ago. I now carry a model 60 pro series in a pocket sheath or on occasion a model 629-6 3" in a Tucker Gun Leather IWB. The model 629-6 3" actually patterns less than the full size model 1911. For whatever it is worth; sweat and/or lint caused some issues with the model 1911 a couple of times during drills.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:25 PM
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My dad thought highly of revolvers. In addition, to a BAR, M-1 Carbine, and a 1911. He carried a .38 cal. revolver and a 32 cal. revolver. Must be something to them. I should have asked before he died but I think the GI's were allowed to bring some "stuff" with them. He was in the Pacific Theatre in the 25th Infantry Division.

Surprised I didn't think of it. "Dad will you tell me a war story?" He always did. My hero.

I've never had a revolver malfunction. I did have a misfire but that was the ammo.

Everything is personal preference.

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Old 02-19-2020, 01:52 PM
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While I have shot both semi-auto pistols and revolvers all my long life as I'm an old fart. The only one I have ever carried in harms way are semi-autos first because the Army dictated it and later out of habit. Now at 70, I also find myself looking at big bore short barreled revolvers in addition for concealed carry. One gun is never enough as going to a second gun is often faster than clearing some jams.

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Old 02-24-2020, 03:40 AM
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This is my newest handgun.
Smith & Wesson 625-8 Apex Custom 45 ACP/4"
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:36 AM
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I can’t add anything about clearing revolver malfunctions but handling/combat shooting a revolver is very different. Here’s a drill you might try to get comfortable: Using a regular paper plate @ three, five & seven yards empty your 442 as fast as possible, combat reload and repeat. The object is to get all 10 rounds on the plate, slowing down a bit as distance increases.
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