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Old 04-26-2020, 04:44 PM
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I've been carrying a J frame crossdraw for a few years now. It is extremely comfortable even while driving, easily concealed, easy to draw and reholster, and allows me full movement without exposing my pistol. Lately I've seen some threads with members inquiring about crossdraw and some of the replies I see make absolutely no sense to me. Or maybe it just wasn't explained clearly enough. It has been stated that it's a poor practice for some of the following reasons. Someone can sneek up behind you and pin your arms at your side, someone can walk up to you face to face and suddenly reach into your jacket or shirt and grab it, the wind will blow your jacket open and someone could see your pistol, and the pistol will be pointing in all kinds of unintended directions rendering it unsafe. These are just a few that I remember. Most of the reasons I've heard just make no sense at all to me. Am I the only one here who is missing the point? Please look at the pic below and then explain some of these reasons to me because I'm just not seeing it.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:03 PM
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The list of "what if's" on any carry mode would fill this page.

your method is a sound one.

Carry on.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:12 PM
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I've been carrying a J frame crossdraw for a few years now. It is extremely comfortable even while driving, easily concealed, easy to draw and reholster, and allows me full movement without exposing my pistol. Lately I've seen some threads with members inquiring about crossdraw and some of the replies I see make absolutely no sense to me. Or maybe it just wasn't explained clearly enough. It has been stated that it's a poor practice for some of the following reasons. Someone can sneek up behind you and pin your arms at your side, someone can walk up to you face to face and suddenly reach into your jacket or shirt and grab it, the wind will blow your jacket open and someone could see your pistol, and the pistol will be pointing in all kinds of unintended directions rendering it unsafe. These are just a few that I remember. Most of the reasons I've heard just make no sense at all to me. Am I the only one here who is missing the point? Please look at the pic below and then explain some of these reasons to me because I'm just not seeing it.
Not been in any gun fights, so I ain't no xpert, but I'm with you. You carry cross draw a little farther left than I do, when I carry cross draw. Normally I carry my semi-auto at 3 o'clock strong side, but I like cross draw at 11 o'clock when I carry a J-Frame.

I see people say we're supposed to be super efficient if we carry AIWB at 1 o'clock, but somehow cross draw, for me at 11 o'clock and for you at 9 o'clock, gets us "kiltz on the streetz." A belt buckle width between 11 and 1 makes the difference between life and death. Doesn't make sense.

I've seen two arguments against cross draw. 1) It's slower and less efficient to access your firearm across your body. and 2) It's easier to stuff your draw.

What I found out trying different carry positions out with airsoft guns is ...

1) If you're in a quick draw contest, you're going to get shot. Doesn't matter if you carry at 9, 11, 1, 2, 3 o'clock.

And

2) It's not any easier to stuff a draw at 11 than 1. You do get some advantage preventing a stuff if you carry at 3 o'clock, but I don't see a big difference between 11 and 1.

But I ain't no xpert. That's just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:26 PM
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The greatest concern about cross draw is you sweep the muzzle across the person standing to your side at the range.

Very few public ranges will allow live fire from the holster at all: those few that do usually prohibit cross draw.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:34 PM
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It's not necessary to sweep the muzzle across the person next to you unless your intention is to draw your pistol with as much flourish as possible. Until it is being raised toward your target the muzzle should always be pointed down. However if the range you practice at will not allow it then it's a good reason for not wearing it at the range.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:43 PM
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Virtually no typical, commercial range will allow shooters to draw from holsters, not cross draw, strong side, whatever. The safety risks and liability that accompanies those risks are far and above THE major consideration for disallowing cross draw or any draw practice. So you have to do it at home with unloaded guns.

Without getting into why I stopped doing it as a cowboy action shooter I also will not do it for concealed carry EXCEPT when driving. It's outstanding in a car. Admittedly, I actually don't do it because I won't be in the car long enough as a rule and I can't comfortably reach across unless I wear the gun pretty far forward where I don't want it to be. I hide and access belt guns way easier on my strong side.

But if it works for you then it works for you. Especially with snub nosed revolvers I can see how it would work when worn as shown in the OP's picture.
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Old 04-26-2020, 05:59 PM
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Understandably crossdraw wouldn't work for everyone. I am 5'10" and weigh 170 to 175. For me reaching across is no big deal. I imagine that if I was a bigger guy it wouldn't be so easy. I can also see how with a long barreled revolver or a full sized pistol (1911, Beretta, etc) it might not be ideal. I am sure there are other sensible reasons against it but, the plethora of strange answers against it really got me wondering what some people think when they hear "crossdraw".

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Old 04-26-2020, 07:05 PM
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I like crossdraw and typically carry on my property or on the river canoeing in that fashion. However, it does enable an adversary within arms reach to get to your weapon before you do. It is "fool's carry".
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:23 PM
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Carry however YOU feel comfortable. The mains things are to: 1 - Carry and 2 - Support others right to carry as THEY feel comfortable.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:30 PM
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... However, it does enable an adversary within arms reach to get to your weapon before you do. It is "fool's carry".
That's a triple palmer.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:53 PM
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No less of an authority than Bill Jordan, a veteran of many gunfights, advised against crossdraw for that very reason.
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Old 04-26-2020, 07:58 PM
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I can see that maybe with open carry but, how in the heck would an assailant even know you were carrying a concealed weapon. I just can't picture somebody walking up and trying to stick their hand in my shirt or jacket just to see.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:04 PM
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I REALLY like the Bianchi Cyclone cross draw holsters. They work and they are comfortable. Other opinions don't matter.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:33 PM
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The advantages to me are easier to access while seated in a vehicle or other similar seated positions. I have from time to timed moved a paddle holstered snub from right hand carry to cross draw before entering a vehicle. I am not 100% comfortable with doing so, as under stress I might default to the normal strong side draw.
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Old 04-26-2020, 08:44 PM
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OP......do whatever suits you! You are the one using it, not any one else on the forum....

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Old 04-26-2020, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buick View Post
No less of an authority than Bill Jordan, a veteran of many gunfights, advised against crossdraw for that very reason.
Iím not so sure of that. Charles Askins loved to call Jordan a guy who wrote a book about gunfighting without ever being in a gunfight. Jordan did kill his supervisor John Rector showing off his quick draw in the Border Patrol office.

But it wasnít crossdraw, at least.

It was a different time. Now heíd be fired for sure and possibly charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.

John A. Rector | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

I donít think the arguments against crossdraw are valid. I usually carry at about 1 oíclock, but 11 oíclock works fine.
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:10 PM
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I have no problem with cross draw as long as you understand and practice for the limitations. Same can be said for any method of carry.

Even so, am I the only one who sees an issue with this picture?
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:33 PM
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I have no problem with cross draw as long as you understand and practice for the limitations. Same can be said for any method of carry.

Even so, am I the only one who sees an issue with this picture?
Maybe that heís using a strong side holster with a forward cant, so the cant is the wrong direction for cross draw? If thatís what your looking at, is that a big deal if it works for him?
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:44 PM
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The reverse cant tucks the grip in close where a forward cant will cause it to stick out more. As far as the way I've looped the belt, it works perfectly that way. I have no issues drawing or re-holstering. This actually worked a lot better than routing the belt the way it was intended. With a nice stiff pistol belt you don't even need to draw the belt up very tight.

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Old 04-26-2020, 10:45 PM
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I have no problem with cross draw as long as you understand and practice for the limitations. Same can be said for any method of carry.

Even so, am I the only one who sees an issue with this picture?
Why all the craziness regarding crossdraw-dscn2841-jpg
Do you mean the belt going across the outside of the holster rather than behind it? It works either way.
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Old 04-26-2020, 11:04 PM
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The holster is obviously a left side pancake holster. If I were to see the OP carrying his pistol this way without reading this thread, my first thought would be that he is an inexperienced shooter who has no idea how the holster works, because it just doesn't look right.
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Old 04-26-2020, 11:04 PM
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I would worry with the cylinder release being against the fabric of the jeans that when you pulled the pistol, the cylinder release would catch on the jeans and open the cylinder.
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Old 04-26-2020, 11:55 PM
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The reverse cant tucks the grip in close where a forward cant will cause it to stick out more. As far as the way I've looped the belt, it works perfectly that way. I have no issues drawing or re-holstering. This actually worked a lot better than routing the belt the way it was intended. With a nice stiff pistol belt you don't even need to draw the belt up very tight.
The only thing Iíd see with the reverse cant is it would make it easier for someone to do a gun grab from behind if they knew you were carrying. If it works for you, it works for you.
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:21 AM
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It works for me and it works really well. I was actually interested just in seeing what others thought about crossdraw in general. A couple of recent threads really brought out some negative reactions. Just curious. Not really looking for any justification on my carry method. Like most things, it only has to work for the guy using it.
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Old 04-27-2020, 05:02 AM
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If your method works well for you then go for it. I think all carry positions have advantages and disadvantages. A lot of "experts" recommend strong side at 4:00. When I tried that, I was printing all the time while at the grocery store, etc.

Your method of carry is about all that works for me while running a tractor. I usually carry a large revolver while working on the farm. The way Kubota does their L series seats makes strong side a "no go".
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:47 AM
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My Dad was a Highway Patrolman in the 50ís through 70ís. They carried cross draw with a flap. I wore a Jordan holster with a strap on a swivel. I asked my Dad why they carried that way, and he replied that as a one-person unit, they transported prisoners in the front seat and they wanted to keep the gun as far away from the prisoner as possible. At different times Iíve carried crossdraw. Iíve worn a Jackass Rig shoulder holster which is essentially crossdraw. The important thing about finding yourself in a situation where a gun is needed is to bring a gun.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:28 AM
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Iím not so sure of that. Charles Askins loved to call Jordan a guy who wrote a book about gunfighting without ever being in a gunfight. Jordan did kill his supervisor John Rector showing off his quick draw in the Border Patrol office.

But it wasnít crossdraw, at least.

It was a different time. Now heíd be fired for sure and possibly charged with Involuntary Manslaughter.

John A. Rector | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

I donít think the arguments against crossdraw are valid. I usually carry at about 1 oíclock, but 11 oíclock works fine.
I typically carry crossdraw here on the farm or going down the creek in my canoe. Crossdraw would not be my choice if clearing Pacific caves of Japanese soldiers alongside Bill Jordan and his Smith and Wesson M1917 .45 acp, however.
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Old 04-27-2020, 09:57 AM
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^^^ When do you foresee that happening?
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:02 AM
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Rule #1 : Have a gun

I have been carrying appendix since before it was cool..... According to the internet gun forum experts I supposedly should have shot my stuff off or blown out my femoral artery by now.

You are good to go


Carry how you want

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Old 04-27-2020, 10:40 AM
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No less of an authority than Bill Jordan, a veteran of many gunfights, advised against crossdraw for that very reason.
He open carried. I don't. The bad guys don't know I have a gun.
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:36 AM
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I think a good number of old time cops carried their 6Ē duty guns in plainclothes. Both of the Onion Field cops carried six inch guns in civvies, one a Smith and the other a Colt. True they were disarmed, but it was at gunpoint and not because of a sneaky grab. They were both in crossdraw holsters, probably because it was easier to clear that long barrel with the grip positioned above belt level. In uniform the strong side holster would have some drop to it.

The LAPD detective below (from the book Death Scenes - A Homicide Detectiveís Notebook) is toting his 6 incher lefty crossdraw. I hope he slid it back a bit for the photo, but even if he didnít it apparently worked for him.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:30 PM
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I've had several holsters made specifically for crossdraw. The feel is good -- comfortable -- and I'm proficient with those revolvers, a 547 3" and a 460 snubby, but I only carry those in the woods.

I have tried to put my strong side (right hand) J-frame pancake on the left as a crossdraw -- no go -- even at 11 o'clock the cant puts the grip too far back for me.

I suppose anyone can teach themself to carry any way with enough practice.
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:50 PM
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My issue with cross draw is that, much like horizontal shoulder rigs, is that under pressure or stress, during the draw you would be sweeping anyone behind you or beside you. It's the muzzle issue.
When I was doing CCW classes in NM, I used an ad from Galco for the Miami Classic as a do-not-do example. In the ads photo, the guys left hand is pushing his wife and infant behind him while his right hand is drawing his pistol, sweeping them.
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Old 04-27-2020, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy2525 View Post
...is that a big deal if it works for him?
I have no issues with it whatsoever.

I've seen a lot of people carry in a lot of strange ways. As I stated before, as long as those people know the limitations and risks involved with that style of carry and train/practice for it, more power to them.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:03 AM
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I carry crossdraw or in a shoulder rig if I am going to be sitting a lot, e.g., driving, movie theater, etc. The only crossdraw I have is a Mernikle for a 5Ē 1911.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rpg View Post
The greatest concern about cross draw is you sweep the muzzle across the person standing to your side at the range.

Very few public ranges will allow live fire from the holster at all: those few that do usually prohibit cross draw.
You hear the same drivel about shoulder holsters. When working out of uniform those two were my primaries. Shoulder in a suit and cross draw without the suit. The shoulder holster was vertical not horizontal.

It is not necessary to sweep anything but the ground beside you and the target in front. When in plain clothes I always qualified with those two carry methods for 28 years. We were required to qualify with what we carried on duty and that was occasionally a 2 inch revolver.
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Old 04-28-2020, 01:09 PM
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I hear the argument about sweeping the muzzle a lot also. I can't imagine how. I think I would have to do it intentionally and even then it would be difficult. Bare in mind I have only carried a 2" snubby and on a couple of occasions a Shield45 this way. Still it would be very difficult to sweep anything unintentionally. I sometimes wonder if people have gotten this idea from watching movies or something. I don't see how I could even do it accidentally. Perhaps it could be done if the holster was oriented horizontally but otherwise it would be difficult.

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Old 04-28-2020, 01:47 PM
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Thanks to my college-aged-son's DUI, I got to spend a few hours in a courthouse in rural Virginia, and got to see several Deputy Sheriffs each carrying at least 2 handguns. (1) Duty-sized autoloader in normal 3-4 o'clock OWB, and (2) snubby in crossdraw, 11:30 or so.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Buick View Post
I like crossdraw and typically carry on my property or on the river canoeing in that fashion. However, it does enable an adversary within arms reach to get to your weapon before you do. It is "fool's carry".
Well, thar ya go boys!!!

I did not know that.....

And all this time, I've been swappin' my pistol from the strong side to the cross-draw mexican IWB when approaching a urinal.

Now I find out I was jest foolin' around.

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Old 04-28-2020, 04:32 PM
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The whole issue of sweeping with crossdraw or horizontal shoulder holster is just so much nonsense. Every mode of carry sweeps the gun at something when being drawn. It's a non-issue if you draw the gun properly, which is with your finger off the trigger until you're on target.

The wearing of a pancake holster with the belt outside the holster has been advocated for decades if you want to pull the gun up tight against the body. Roy Baker himself advocated it.

To the OP, the only thing I would probably suggest is a thumb break on the holster. I'm not a fan of an open top holster without a positive retention method. But that's just me.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:59 PM
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Amplifying my commentary on ďDo you carry more than one gun, etc... I Generally carry my SIG 229 DAK on my strong side, appendix fashion in a straight draw Ryan Grizzell holster. IF I carry a second gun it will be in a cross draw holster, typically a .44 Special with a 3 1/2 barrel. The holster is an old hand carved Messican Viking.

I have no plan to engage in quick draw with either one of them, taking the Texas Ranger view that if I think Iím going to need the dam* thing, itíll be in my hand. It should be obvious the S&W, being the backup, wonít be in a hurry either.

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Old 04-28-2020, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LPD256 View Post
My Dad was a Highway Patrolman in the 50ís through 70ís. They carried cross draw with a flap. I wore a Jordan holster with a strap on a swivel. I asked my Dad why they carried that way, and he replied that as a one-person unit, they transported prisoners in the front seat and they wanted to keep the gun as far away from the prisoner as possible. At different times Iíve carried crossdraw. Iíve worn a Jackass Rig shoulder holster which is essentially crossdraw. The important thing about finding yourself in a situation where a gun is needed is to bring a gun.
Yet the opp of that is when interviewing a person you are giving the direct access to your gun, especially with zero or minimal retention. Not sure when rear seat dividers went into use in LEA cars, but back then, I could see the point, sort of. Especially since many tactics that are common today were unheard of in the 50-60s, like cuffing behind the suspects back.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:34 AM
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Default Because of my body shape.....

I prefer a shoulder holster under my left arm. Things at belt level are really problematic for me. I would like to carry otherwise, but it's pretty much dictated to me.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:48 AM
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I understand and agree with the comments, ďIf it works . . .Ē

But frankly, I would like to see cross draw at 9-10 oíclock with a reverse cant work quickly and smoothly under duress. It has to be slow to reach all the way across the body, get under the covering garment, grip the gun and pull it backwards up out of the holster, reverse direction and bring it forward all the way across the body, stop the swing at the correct point and bring it up to a shooting position. Thatís a lot of movement telegraphing your intentions. Distance = time.

So, you can do it, but is it really the best method or just one you decided to stick with? Have you really explored other more common options? Like cross draw at 11 with a cant toward the buckle?

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Old 04-29-2020, 07:16 AM
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There's a big difference between being shoulder to shoulder on a range qualifying or target shooting and being alone out it Penn's Woods.

All horizontal shoulder holsters should be banned ...... they sweep the whole room on a moment to moment basis...... just thinking about "social distancing" at the supermarket checkout line makes my .......pucker!

Speaking of which... as Kieth44spl points out....... you shouldn't use a public restroom urinal if you're strong side carrying........can't think of a more vulnerable position to find yourself in!!!!! If challenged any reaction is going to cause one to really "sweep" the room!!!!!


There's a reason most of us have a "Big Box-O-Holsters"

I tend to carry a 3913/6906 at 4 O'clock IWB over 90% or the time ..... the other 5-10% of the time.... a speciality holster that better meets my needs at the time.

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Old 04-29-2020, 09:27 AM
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When I was a range officer anyone using cross draw I put on the left end position. Then they were not "Sweeping" other shooters.
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:27 PM
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I tend to avoid these discussions because they often degrade into name calling and hurt feelings. Regardless...

This topic was discussed in a weapon retention course I took some time ago (training I highly recommend for anyone who carries a firearm).

As explained to me, the retention issue with cross-draw is not about someone running up and taking a snatch at your weapon. Strong side is vulnerable from the rear in this case. Cross-draw is vulnerable from the front. Properly concealed, neither should happen. Additionally, a little situation awareness goes a long way.

In a tussle with the weapon holstered, however, cross-draw has the potential to be a liability (assumption is the attacker is right handed). Face to face during the fight, my attacker has an easier time reaching out and achieving a firing grip on my pistol. Conversely, I have a harder time locking the pistol down in the holster with my strong hand if it is carried cross-draw. If I decide to present and fire from retention (position 2), this is easier to accomplish from the strong side (especially if I am belly-to-belly with the other person).

I'm retired now and only carry on my own time. The only time I open carry is while hunting. Sometimes I prefer cross-draw. The rest of the time I carry concealed and old habits are hard to break. To each their own.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:04 PM
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I absolutely agree with 1Sailor and others, with practice (did mine in front of a mirror) any sweeping can be completely elininated. In fact my left hand can pull my jacket or shirt out of the way for safe drawing. Practicing at home in front a mirror for correct discipline and then dry fire at possibly a silhouette target is a great way to practice. I'm assuming you know the gun is unloaded.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:30 PM
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I almost always use CD when ahorseback....

Out of the way to handle a rope and I can draw my sidearm with either hand.



(Tried to get Ol' Yellowdog to do a Hi-Ho Silver for the picture...
But he wasn't have any of it.)


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Old 05-17-2020, 12:33 PM
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Snubbyfan made a cross draw for me. It has a reverse tilt. Instead of tilt forward as a strong side it lays back at the same tilt as the strong side. Makes cross draw a breeze. Easy to hide easy to drive. Only thing I do when driving is to uncover the weapon. Should I be stopped by the police I have my hands on the wheel till he gets to the car window. Then I tell him I have it and let him decide how he wants to proceed! Last time he said cool. Then checked my info and we parted company.
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